Australian Partner Visa + Dependent child questions

[Bluetongue]

I am currently assisting preparation of an application for the above (Sub-class 309 temporary and Sub-class 100 permanent) for my grand niece and her son. This means they are applying from outside Australia, they currently reside in Thailand. As I expect this to take a few weeks I am going to post my questions here and/or any reputable findings I might come across.

• the immi.gov.au website quotes a service standard for a decision on these applications of 12 months as Thailand is a high risk country. Does anyone have anecdotal evidence of this timeframe in reality, I have heard that it can be much quicker than that.

• many documents from both applicant and sponsor have to be in statutory declaration form, this is OK for the Australian side, what of the Thai version, is there one?. Who would be an acceptable witness (Poo Yai Bahn, Amphur official or) ? Likewise for certified copies. I expect answers from here but will also check with VF-S (the visa processing company) to see what they say.

• Thirdly I have already checked with VF-S regarding timings of lodgement of health and police check documents they replied thus " With regard to your query, police check can provide at the time of lodging or later but the applicant needs to come to Australian Visa Application Centre to receive the Police Clearance Requested Letter before apply for Police Clearance Certificate at Royal Thai Police Bureau Headquarter. Please provide the passport detail (Original or copy). For health check can do after submit the application, case officer will provide you with a “Health Assessment” letter. Australian Federal Police Check for sponsor of child should be provided at time of lodgement."

• the dependent child involved has his father's name. As the father is long gone, the family is making attempts to contact him through his family in an effort to obtain the required permission and signatures from him. If those efforts fail the application form is quite specific that a copy of the court order giving the mother the sole legal right to move the child be attached. Does anyone have any experience of this. Presumably we would be looking at a lawyer to obtain such a document. Any idea on timeframe?

[David48]

Mate, great opening post.

I have read stories of it taking as short a time as 6 months and some reporting 8 - 10 months in relation to the Partner Visa side of it.

I'll tap a friend on the shoulder and see if he can provide some updated information for you.

Good Luck with it.

[krisb]

That's right regarding their police clearance. Then it gets taken to the big cop shop in Bangkok. Op you also need a national Australian police clearance because of the child. I know my friend had to when his wife's son came over. You could also get their medicals underway at the listed hospital. Before hiring a lawyer, ring a migration office and ask for advice.

Sorry but that's all I have. Yours is a situation I have no experience with.

[krisb]

Op, perhaps shoot Mario a message for some advice.

[Bluetongue]

That's right regarding their police clearance. Then it gets taken to the big cop shop in Bangkok. Op you also need a national Australian police clearance because of the child. I know my friend had to when his wife's son came over. You could also get their medicals underway at the listed hospital. Before hiring a lawyer, ring a migration office and ask for advice.

Sorry but that's all I have. Yours is a situation I have no experience with.

Thanks, the Monday morning update is that the father was contacted by the mother and refused to come back to sign any document. I think that a more senior family member maybe could get it happening through his family or whatever. It may just take a payment, that will be up to the sponsor but likely to be much cheaper and quicker than a lawyer/legal process. If that doesn't work I will follow your advice re seeking advice before getting into lawyer land.

[Berek]

You can't start the medical untill you get advised by the embassy. The hospital needs the number the the embassy gives you.

Police checks are best done (although can be later) and handed in with the application.

[Bluetongue]

Op, perhaps shoot Mario a message for some advice.

I will let the family efforts to get him down here mature a bit first. He sounds a bit wacko, on Sunday he said he was in Malaysia, Monday morning in Udon, Monday afternoon he said he was coming down. He has to sign the form and a letter agreeing to the child's move as well as provide a copy of his ID card. I think I will get the Pu Yai Bahn to witness it all.

VF-S also sent me the attached document which is the Bangkok Embassy checklist version. It also mentions this situation and refers to a Por Kor 14. I will find out what that is. Some of the other requirements mentioned seem a bit more finicky than the version I was using so I'll have to study it more closely.

Info_checklist_partner_provisional_050713.pdf

[David48]

... and refers to a Por Kor 14. I will find out what that is. Some of the other requirements mentioned seem a bit more finicky than the version I was using so I'll have to study it more closely.

Mate ... have a look at this ... http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/166241-por-kor-14-for-adding-child-to-australian-temp-spouse-visa/ and http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/477724-por-kor-14-document/

Then take your choice from these ... http://www.google.com.au/search?q=thai+visa+forum+Por+Kor+14+site:www.thaivisa.com&biw=1024&bih=461

Edited August 20, 2013 by David48

[simple1]

OP: details on why the need & the process to obtain Por Kor 14 is talked to at

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/509439-is-porkor14-enough-to-show-custody/

Edited August 20, 2013 by simple1

[Bluetongue]

OK well there's lot of light reading in the links of the last two posts.

But I think/hope it may not now be necessary. The father turned up here, well firstly he met the applicant at the Amphur and they changed the child's name and ID card to the mother's name. Then he came here. I was totally unprepared as I was having a kip after a morning of stress with another issue here. Anyway when I came out I realised on studying the application form that there was in fact no signature required from him on the form, merely his personal details so I got those. What was required was a statutory declaration from him allowing the child to migrate to Australia.

Not having any such document handy I got a photocopy front and back of his ID card got one of my younger cleverer nieces to write the words that he as the father permits the son to travel to and live in Australia. Then we trundled around to Poo Yai Bahn who witnessed him sign and put his official stamp on it. I hope that a) the wording is correct, and the simple nature of the document is sufficient.

They bunged him 5k for coming down (its about a 10 hour day about 8 of travel for him), I was originally told 2k but anyway its not me paying, maybe the sponsor will have something to say about that. Now I can get back to completing the rest of it.

For info, I am getting the sponsor to scan and e-mail documents to me but he is going to provide the certified copies to the office in Brisbane (he has been told he can do that) so we don't have to have a postal involvement as well.

[Bluetongue]

For info, I am getting the sponsor to scan and e-mail documents to me but he is going to provide the certified copies to the office in Brisbane (he has been told he can do that) so we don't have to have a postal involvement as well.

Well yesterday he was told that he couldn't do this so he will have to post the originals here. My experience with the post is all received for boxes and parcels, cards not received and one express envelope not received from Australia so here's hoping.

[Surin13]

A little late fir the OP, but for reference, DIAC seems to push the idea that if you have a Por Korat 14 that you still need a signed consent from the other partner. But this isn't correct as a Por Kor 14 is all that you need, as it states that the person has sole custody of the child.

DIAC doesn't seem to like that the mother has automatic sole custody of the child if the parents never legally married as its very different to Australian law, so insist on the signed consent.

But you can get the visa granted without a signed consent if the father refuses or you don't want to get it.

[Bluetongue]

Just to update this. The sponsor came over and they lodged the completed application on the 17th of Oct. He went back on the 20th. As he was here I didn't vet the package they had, ie it was his responsibility anyway. Two issues were, they rolled up at VFS without her birth certificate, turns out she didn't even have one, mai pen rai, she obtained a new one and submitted it afterwards. Secondly had the wrong post code on it (my bad) comes from living in one Amphur but conducting all business in the adjacent and closer Amphur. They got their Thai documents translated in the building. VFS does certify the copies as "Original sighted".

On Monday the 21st (before submission of birth certificate) she gets a call from the case officer (Thai) at the Embassy telling her that a letter was being sent to enable her to go and get the medical done. The applicant mistakenly thought this was "approval subject to medical". Anyway when the letter turned up after going to the wrong post office it merely acknowledged submission of a legitimate application. It provided no specific guidance re going for the medical however there were attachments to take to the specified Hospital's. It then mentioned a 16 week period before you will hear anything and invited the applicant to submit any enquiries by e-mail. The medical for her and son was conducted at the Bangkok Convent Hospital, Silom for 4.5k and 2.5k baht respectively. Feee for the visa was paid by CC in Australia prior to submission. Advice given to the sponsor over the phone in Australia was in conflict with advice given by VFS to them here.

I suggest anyone lodging definitely provide an e-mail address as a way of contact, I am going to set an account up for her now as it seems that is what the Embassy prefers. That way she can make polite enquiry at some point during or towards the end of the 16 weeks.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Bluetongue

[David48]

^^ BT ... great update ... I ALWAYS appreciate it when the OP's come back with an update.

I've learnt form your experiences.

Have run out of likes today ... back soon ...

.

[krisb]

So now all documents have been submitted and waiting for a yes or no in 16 weeks right?

[Bluetongue]

So now all documents have been submitted and waiting for a yes or no in 16 weeks right?

Just to be sure I'll go and read her letter again

[krisb]

Everyone I know that has submitted a correct and well planned visa app has been approved. They are good folk who work at vfs and the embassy. It is however a long wait...but that's how it goes..

[MilesofSmiles]

Everyone I know that has submitted a correct and well planned visa app has been approved. They are good folk who work at vfs and the embassy. It is however a long wait...but that's how it goes..

That was my experience, partner was Japanese though.

But provide evidence they ask for, you'll get stamped and approved.

Talking to people on the phone is really confusing, as yes, you will get different answers to same questions depending who you ask.

Happens to everyone.

** Note

They will ask for the same proof of relationship stuff (photos, letters etc) AGAIN when you do round 2 of the spouse visa.

It's not kept on record, and they don't just look at the old one.

You can re-use much of it again, in 3 years time so keep it.

[Bluetongue]

So now all documents have been submitted and waiting for a yes or no in 16 weeks right?

Just to be sure I'll go and read her letter again

It says "within 16 weeks we will contact you with details of any further requirements or an interview if required" . If there were no further requirements I for one would conclude that a decision could be made. I'm sure that this lady would be OK in an interview with the LES but not sure if the Australian Public Service staff were involved. I'll let you know anyway when next contact is received.

[Surin13]

The process after submitting an application is generally as follows,

They receive a valid application which doesn't mean much except that it meets the minimum legislative requirements to be excepted and that you wont get your visa application fee back past this point. Doesn't mean anything really about the quality of the application or if it will be approved.

You get a case officer assigned who request the Thai police check and medical.

About here you get the above statement "within 16 weeks we will contact you with details of any further requirements or an interview if required" which means your application has gone to the bottom of the processing pile an it may take 16 weeks before we get to look at it again.

After the 16 weeks or thereabouts the case officer looks at the file and assess the application, makes sure everything is there, organizes interviews (if required) etc. They put their recommendation on it and pass it onto the decision maker.

The decision maker has the file for maybe a couple of weeks and if everything is OK with the application makes a decision.

You are normally informed within a couple of days after the decision has been made.

Hope this helps.

[Bluetongue]

Just to update again. I created an e-mail account for the applicant and advised the Embassy. Assumed they would be cautious and still use snail mail. However they now use the e-mail as official correspondence, deemed to be received on the day. After 17 weeks she gets an e-mail and a phone call from the case-officer saying that the letter her previous Thai partner provided stated he gave permission for his son to study in Australia, not live there permanently. Also the Thai script birth certificates were not with the application only the translations. She had 28 days to resubmit. It took her a week, turns out she did have an original birth certificate, don't know what happened there, and she got a new letter from the Thai guy. Submitted scanned copies by e-mail which they told her over the phone she could do, although the letter said to post the stuff.

Straight away an e-mail comes back saying OK, got everything have submitted it to the decision maker, wait another 8 weeks.

It's only an opinion, mine, but this Department is taking too long, for whatever reason, and this is not a delay that could be brooked in Australia by a Government Department whose actions could be appealed, questioned or criticised by external review mechanisms. One of the principles of good decision making (at least as far as I recall) is to be prompt without unreasonable delay. Here there is no review they can do what they like. Rant over.

[Will27]

Just to update again. I created an e-mail account for the applicant and advised the Embassy. Assumed they would be cautious and still use snail mail. However they now use the e-mail as official correspondence, deemed to be received on the day. After 17 weeks she gets an e-mail and a phone call from the case-officer saying that the letter her previous Thai partner provided stated he gave permission for his son to study in Australia, not live there permanently. Also the Thai script birth certificates were not with the application only the translations. She had 28 days to resubmit. It took her a week, turns out she did have an original birth certificate, don't know what happened there, and she got a new letter from the Thai guy. Submitted scanned copies by e-mail which they told her over the phone she could do, although the letter said to post the stuff.

Straight away an e-mail comes back saying OK, got everything have submitted it to the decision maker, wait another 8 weeks.

It's only an opinion, mine, but this Department is taking too long, for whatever reason, and this is not a delay that could be brooked in Australia by a Government Department whose actions could be appealed, questioned or criticised by external review mechanisms. One of the principles of good decision making (at least as far as I recall) is to be prompt without unreasonable delay. Here there is no review they can do what they like. Rant over.

DIAC state that 309 applications lodged offshore for high risk countries is 12 months.

I'd be looking on the bright side of things. The application could've been refused outright

if the case officer wanted. DIAC do not have to request additional information, so I would

take this as a positive step.

If more documentation is needed, the file then gets put aside until it's received. It wasn't the

fault of DIAC that extra information was needed, hence the extra 28 days.

Like I said, DIAC advise it's a 12 month wait (usually worse case scenario). The application was

lodged in October so it has only been 5 months so far, including the extra 28 days .

I think you will find there are review rights if a spouse application is refused. Saying "they can do

what they like" is not really true. Cases are subject to independent audits and quality control mechanisms.

I know you're frustrated, but I would take the request for extra documentation as a good sign. If they were

going to refuse immediately, IMO they wouldn't have requested the extra information.

[Old Croc]

It's not DIAC anymore Will. Wrap your tongue around DIBP! No doubt the name change is to reflect the main focus under this government.

DI - Department of Immigration (1945 – 1974)

DLI - Department of Labor and Immigration (1974 – 1975)

DIEA - Department of Immigration and Ethnic Affairs (1976 – 1987)

DILGEA - Department of Immigration, Local Government and Ethnic Affairs (1987 – 1993)

DIEA - Department of Immigration and Ethnic Affairs (1993 – 1996)

DIMA - Department of Immigration and Multicultural Affairs (1996 – 2001)

DIMIA - Department of Immigration and Multicultural and Indigenous Affairs (2001 – 2006)

DIMA - Department of Immigration and Multicultural Affairs (2006 – 2007)

DIAC - Department of Immigration and Citizenship (2007 – 2013

DIBP - Department of Immigration and Border Protection (2013 – current)

[Bluetongue]

Hi Will

Not really frustrated, but the whole point of having VFS screen applications (I thought) was to make sure the documents were supplied in this case the copies of the Thai script birth certificate. The lack of this document in the package should have been detected at the counter not after 17 weeks sitting in the Case Officer's pending tray. But the father writing the wrong words on his permission letter was beyond my ken as I can not read Thai and did not see the translation. To be then told everything has gone to the decision maker wait 8 weeks - for what, not even a Supreme Court judge takes that long to hand down a sentence. Having said that I concur with you about the positive side of it and have already passed that on to the Aussie bloke who is the one a bit frustrated.

I do not know about the right of review on this one I know there is none on a tourist visa. I would have no problem if there was some reason to take this long and if there is it should be in the public domain. Thailand is not a high risk country if you check their overstay stats they are below Canada from memory.

[Will27]

Hi Will

Not really frustrated, but the whole point of having VFS screen applications (I thought) was to make sure the documents were supplied in this case the copies of the Thai script birth certificate. The lack of this document in the package should have been detected at the counter not after 17 weeks sitting in the Case Officer's pending tray. But the father writing the wrong words on his permission letter was beyond my ken as I can not read Thai and did not see the translation. To be then told everything has gone to the decision maker wait 8 weeks - for what, not even a Supreme Court judge takes that long to hand down a sentence. Having said that I concur with you about the positive side of it and have already passed that on to the Aussie bloke who is the one a bit frustrated.

I do not know about the right of review on this one I know there is none on a tourist visa. I would have no problem if there was some reason to take this long and if there is it should be in the public domain. Thailand is not a high risk country if you check their overstay stats they are below Canada from memory.

G'day mate

IMO, VFS are just glorified couriers. Sounds like VFS missed the missing document but again, I wouldn't expect

too much from them. It was then noticed by the case officer so you can't really blame DIAC, oops DIBP for that.

Once the documents are received, it goes back to another pile for the CO. They often have a horrendous work

load so unfortunately it goes to the bottom of a pile. It then will have to be assessed for grant or refusal.

The sponsor has review rights via the Merit Review Tribunal if it's refused (unlikely IMO). The waiting times are in the

public domain (DIPB website).

Thailand is classified as a high risk country.

High risk countries are those which are not ETA (Electronic Travel Authority) eligible.

[David48]

I'm not a huge fan of the VFS but ...

I'm just undergoing Citizenship application of the TWIN boys.

I've submitted one through the Embassy and one through VFS just to see how long each one takes and then I can report back my experiences in dealing with each organisation directly.

I do give give VFS credit for checking the application and noticing an error in the Birth Certificate translation.

[Will27]

I'm not a huge fan of the VFS but ...

I'm just undergoing Citizenship application of the TWIN boys.

I've submitted one through the Embassy and one through VFS just to see how long each one takes and then I can report back my experiences in dealing with each organisation directly.

I do give give VFS credit for checking the application and noticing an error in the Birth Certificate translation.

You do get some good ones I guess. Pretty much like DIAC case officers, some good, some not so good.

What I'm basically saying though is, best not to leave it up to them. It's good that they picked up an error,

but that isn't always going to happen.

[biggles68]

Governments are in general a slow pain staking process and if a mistake or a missing document is picked up then its back to the bottom of the pile. The time frames they give are just ball park guides to give you a guesstimate of how long the process can go for. I submitted my wifes partner (307) application on October 30 2013 with vfs which seemed quite good, they go through the check list to make sure everything is attached. I forgot to include the whole love story details which was my fault which they didnt pick up but thats my fault. My wife received a phone call at around the 16 week mark informing her that we had not included how we met etc etc and that we could now include a joint love story submission which I did the same day and sent it off via email. Snail mail just slows the process, mobile and email is the best option. On April 7 2014 my wife received an email her partner visa had been granted, so thats around the 5-6 month mark with no kids involved just a standard application which I did myself, no need to waste money on an immigration lawyer. Thais are classed high risk for a number of reasons such as human trafficking, sexual slavery, health so its not just about overstaying.

Good luck with it, just accept its a slow process this is Governments at work and I dont know any Government organisation that doesnt have a slow pain staking process.

[David48]

Hey Biggles ... great news that your Partner got her Visa ...

We are in the process of gathering the documents for MissFarmGirl now.

I'll be working on a 4 - 6 month turn-around time ... home for Christmas I hope!

[Larz2013]

Hey Biggles ... great news that your Partner got her Visa ...

We are in the process of gathering the documents for MissFarmGirl now.

I'll be working on a 4 - 6 month turn-around time ... home for Christmas I hope!

We also hope for Christmas! Goodluck we are submitting in 2 weeks....

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand