Thai opposition MPs in parliament brawl with police

[khunken]

I'm always impressed by the lengths people will go to question the mandate the PTP received in the last election. Always the same questionable assertions: people were too stupid to vote for the "right party", they were intimidated into voting for the "wrong party", and/or their votes were bought. Opinion polls continue to put the PTP ahead of the Dems, which basically nullifies the second two "explanations" (or are people bribed and intimidated during opinion polls as well??). That leaves the first, offensive, "explanation"... which is that the people are too ignorant to know what is good for them. That's some sound democratic (and Democratic) thinking! Or put another way, "those people must be stupid because they like a party that I don't like".

What you have got in colloquial terms is the wrong end of the stick.

People are within their rights to question any so-called mandate as we haven't yet arrived at censorship on TV like (sic) what users of Facebook & Line are currently facing.

While there was the usual vote buying both via the local leaders & the disastrous rice scam (with some intimidation thrown in), I don't doubt that PTP won the last election. That however does not allow them to do as they please which they have continued to do. They haven't accepted any checks & balances which I (& you hopefully) regard as a part of any democratic process.

The opinion polls are not worth a satang. If you can remember the Bangkok governor election polls then you might be wise to leave them out of any argument.

Many of the people who voted for the PTP are not stupid but they are prone to brainwashing, intimidation, vote buying & promises. Red shirt villages don't help strategic thinking.

[dickyknee]

It must be obvious to even the most simple minded what went on here.

Quote:

"To cut short the debate, which did not go anywhere in the morning, Somsak, who had taken the chairmanship in the afternoon, said he would allow only two representatives from the government and opposition MPs and senators to speak before voting. Following protests from the floor, he called for voting. The meeting voted 339:15 against the 57 speaking."

So 339:15votes against and yet the 57 stood to speak?

Only 15 votes to speak.

6 speakers were to be allowed. Already half the day had gone with no progress.

Obviously the rules don't apply to the dems. They're above politics really in the blue sky looking down

speaker: "this is taking longer than planned, I'll cut short the debate"

57: "but we need to debate this fully, not limiting the debate to speed it up. it's not a minor thing, it's major amendment to the constitution that involves a major restructure of the Senate"

speaker: "hey PTP do you want to listen to the Dems?"

PTP: "no"

57: "but we were elected by the people too, and their voice needs to be heard as part of this debate also"

speaker: "I don't think it does, and the ruling party doesn't want to listen to you and they don't care too much to talk with you about it so shut up"

57: "we're not doing that, we need to represent the people who elected us in this debate"

speaker: "sit down and shut up, or get out"

57: "were not sitting down, this is very important and needs to be debated more"

speaker: "ok, get out then. police - remove these people, if you don't you'll be reprimanded"

[Reasoner]

Wait a minute.... The article specifically explains that the speaker intended to continue or begin debate on the matters but only if the opposition would sit down and follow the rules standard for human debate. That means sitting down an waiting your turn to voice your opinion, not standing up and yelling or booing. It sounds to me like they were the ones who wanted to obstruct the debate. If it was so important to them and their cause was just then why yell out and stand around and obstruct. they should have sat down when the speaker said to, then when he stopped the debate after they followed the rules of parliamentary debate, everyone would have seen the corruption you all speak of. You people should pay attention to the facts of the article.

Good luck.

Welcome to ThaiVisa !

One other fact was that the Speaker only intended to allow two of the opposition to speak, out of the crowd who had wanted to, and put their names down.

Would you agree that this was a deliberate attempt, by the supposedly-neutral but-PTP-party-member Speaker, to stifle the debate in a very-unparliamentary way, and that actually the Democrat-MPs were (at least to some extent) merely standing-up for the 'rules of parliamentary debate' which we (probably) all support ?

"Nipit, who said there were some 100 police in parliament at the time, said opposition MPs were angry at being denied time to speak about the proposals, which would change the senate to a fully elected body."

I'm not sure about your "fact" because according to the article it is hear say and tertiary information via "Nipit", but if it is a fact then it makes the behavior more questionable since the 57 members protesting the debate, which is by the way, a fact, should have accepted a representational debate for the sake of expediting their concerns to a status of permanent record which is very important to their cause since they are the minority party and voting doesn't matter for obvious reasons including the possible conspiratorial presence of the majority. This was intelligently pointed out in another reply by a fellow forumer, but I'll get to that in a minute.

[thaicbr]

It must be obvious to even the most simple minded what went on here.

Quote:

"To cut short the debate, which did not go anywhere in the morning, Somsak, who had taken the chairmanship in the afternoon, said he would allow only two representatives from the government and opposition MPs and senators to speak before voting. Following protests from the floor, he called for voting. The meeting voted 339:15 against the 57 speaking."

So 339:15votes against and yet the 57 stood to speak?

Only 15 votes to speak.

6 speakers were to be allowed. Already half the day had gone with no progress.

Obviously the rules don't apply to the dems. They're above politics really in the blue sky looking down

we all know what the vote would be.. Thaksin has the parliament vote tied up.. the issue is that elected Mp's were given no opportunity to do their job.. Don't forget at the beginning of the debate nothing was said about the 60 Democrats that had requested time to speak as per parliament rules. They only got noisy when they were declined that opportunity.

[smutcakes]

It must be obvious to even the most simple minded what went on here.

Quote:

"To cut short the debate, which did not go anywhere in the morning, Somsak, who had taken the chairmanship in the afternoon, said he would allow only two representatives from the government and opposition MPs and senators to speak before voting. Following protests from the floor, he called for voting. The meeting voted 339:15 against the 57 speaking."

So 339:15votes against and yet the 57 stood to speak?

Only 15 votes to speak.

6 speakers were to be allowed. Already half the day had gone with no progress.

Obviously the rules don't apply to the dems. They're above politics really in the blue sky looking down

we all know what the vote would be.. Thaksin has the parliament vote tied up.. the issue is that elected Mp's were given no opportunity to do their job.. Don't forget at the beginning of the debate nothing was said about the 60 Democrats that had requested time to speak as per parliament rules. They only got noisy when they were declined that opportunity.

Can you link me to the article which details this? The OP does not state what you say.

[MrSlatersParrot]

I'm always impressed by the lengths people will go to question the mandate the PTP received in the last election. Always the same questionable assertions: people were too stupid to vote for the "right party", they were intimidated into voting for the "wrong party", and/or their votes were bought. Opinion polls continue to put the PTP ahead of the Dems, which basically nullifies the second two "explanations" (or are people bribed and intimidated during opinion polls as well??). That leaves the first, offensive, "explanation"... which is that the people are too ignorant to know what is good for them. That's some sound democratic (and Democratic) thinking! Or put another way, "those people must be stupid because they like a party that I don't like".

What you have got in colloquial terms is the wrong end of the stick.

People are within their rights to question any so-called mandate as we haven't yet arrived at censorship on TV like (sic) what users of Facebook & Line are currently facing.

While there was the usual vote buying both via the local leaders & the disastrous rice scam (with some intimidation thrown in), I don't doubt that PTP won the last election. That however does not allow them to do as they please which they have continued to do. They haven't accepted any checks & balances which I (& you hopefully) regard as a part of any democratic process.

The opinion polls are not worth a satang. If you can remember the Bangkok governor election polls then you might be wise to leave them out of any argument.

Many of the people who voted for the PTP are not stupid but they are prone to brainwashing, intimidation, vote buying & promises. Red shirt villages don't help strategic thinking.

The idea with the redshirt villages is to remove the brainwashing and all the received wisdom. That's why Abhisit closed down all the red shirt radio.

He couldn't allow an alternative version of events to be heard.

What we get from the dems is this spectacle in parliament.

Are they hoping after their letter to the embassies to garner some support? Perhaps some celebrity endorsements?

My view is they have a plan. The same plan they've had since 2005.

When out of office oppose everything and everyone and in the end take to the streets

Question is do people want democracy with all its faults or do they want governance imposed on them by unaccountable elites?

If the dems wanted government through the electorate they would at least canvas the electorate. Work out a set of policies.

They talk a lot about it but they never really deliver because they oppose change.

Unelectable.

Hence this charade.

[NCFC]

I'm always impressed by the lengths people will go to question the mandate the PTP received in the last election. Always the same questionable assertions: people were too stupid to vote for the "right party", they were intimidated into voting for the "wrong party", and/or their votes were bought. Opinion polls continue to put the PTP ahead of the Dems, which basically nullifies the second two "explanations" (or are people bribed and intimidated during opinion polls as well??). That leaves the first, offensive, "explanation"... which is that the people are too ignorant to know what is good for them. That's some sound democratic (and Democratic) thinking! Or put another way, "those people must be stupid because they like a party that I don't like".

What you have got in colloquial terms is the wrong end of the stick.

People are within their rights to question any so-called mandate as we haven't yet arrived at censorship on TV like (sic) what users of Facebook & Line are currently facing.

While there was the usual vote buying both via the local leaders & the disastrous rice scam (with some intimidation thrown in), I don't doubt that PTP won the last election. That however does not allow them to do as they please which they have continued to do. They haven't accepted any checks & balances which I (& you hopefully) regard as a part of any democratic process.

The opinion polls are not worth a satang. If you can remember the Bangkok governor election polls then you might be wise to leave them out of any argument.

Many of the people who voted for the PTP are not stupid but they are prone to brainwashing, intimidation, vote buying & promises. Red shirt villages don't help strategic thinking.

The idea with the redshirt villages is to remove the brainwashing and all the received wisdom. That's why Abhisit closed down all the red shirt radio.

He couldn't allow an alternative version of events to be heard.

What we get from the dems is this spectacle in parliament.

Are they hoping after their letter to the embassies to garner some support? Perhaps some celebrity endorsements?

My view is they have a plan. The same plan they've had since 2005.

When out of office oppose everything and everyone and in the end take to the streets

Question is do people want democracy with all its faults or do they want governance imposed on them by unaccountable elites?

If the dems wanted government through the electorate they would at least canvas the electorate. Work out a set of policies.

They talk a lot about it but they never really deliver because they oppose change.

Unelectable.

Hence this charade.

Of course. In order to win an election the Democrats would have to appeal to their maids and drivers. Anathema to the elite.

[Reasoner]

"Nipit, who said there were some 100 police in parliament at the time, said opposition MPs were angry at being denied time to speak about the proposals, which would change the senate to a fully elected body."

The 57 members protesting the debate, should have accepted a representational debate with a time limit for the sake of expediting their concerns to a status of permanent record which is very important to their cause since they are the minority party and voting doesn't matter for obvious reasons including the possible conspiratorial presence of the majority. This was accurately pointed out by someone else on this forum.

Oh and for what it is worth , most dictatorships if not by definition are Junta based making there roots in the army and become successful with the support of the army/military and the wealthy elite of a country looking to preserve a vintage privileged way of life. These institutions are usually based primarily within the protections of said country's capital city; And made possible by the extension of a massive labor force willing to continue to work for slave wages into modern times where that treatment is no longer accepted nor humane by those very modern and present standards. It is not about Taksin, it's about preserving a way of life for some and resisting change to a free market where workers are part of the game, but old elites resist this change understandably. I did not see any military rushing, I wonder what that means, but I will throw that one to the wolves

Have at it

Edited August 21, 2013 by Reasoner

[khunken]

I'm always impressed by the lengths people will go to question the mandate the PTP received in the last election. Always the same questionable assertions: people were too stupid to vote for the "right party", they were intimidated into voting for the "wrong party", and/or their votes were bought. Opinion polls continue to put the PTP ahead of the Dems, which basically nullifies the second two "explanations" (or are people bribed and intimidated during opinion polls as well??). That leaves the first, offensive, "explanation"... which is that the people are too ignorant to know what is good for them. That's some sound democratic (and Democratic) thinking! Or put another way, "those people must be stupid because they like a party that I don't like".

What you have got in colloquial terms is the wrong end of the stick.

People are within their rights to question any so-called mandate as we haven't yet arrived at censorship on TV like (sic) what users of Facebook & Line are currently facing.

While there was the usual vote buying both via the local leaders & the disastrous rice scam (with some intimidation thrown in), I don't doubt that PTP won the last election. That however does not allow them to do as they please which they have continued to do. They haven't accepted any checks & balances which I (& you hopefully) regard as a part of any democratic process.

The opinion polls are not worth a satang. If you can remember the Bangkok governor election polls then you might be wise to leave them out of any argument.

Many of the people who voted for the PTP are not stupid but they are prone to brainwashing, intimidation, vote buying & promises. Red shirt villages don't help strategic thinking.

The idea with the redshirt villages is to remove the brainwashing and all the received wisdom. That's why Abhisit closed down all the red shirt radio.

He couldn't allow an alternative version of events to be heard.

What we get from the dems is this spectacle in parliament.

Are they hoping after their letter to the embassies to garner some support? Perhaps some celebrity endorsements?

My view is they have a plan. The same plan they've had since 2005.

When out of office oppose everything and everyone and in the end take to the streets

Question is do people want democracy with all its faults or do they want governance imposed on them by unaccountable elites?

If the dems wanted government through the electorate they would at least canvas the electorate. Work out a set of policies.

They talk a lot about it but they never really deliver because they oppose change.

Unelectable.

Hence this charade.

The red shirt villages are to remove the brainwashing? Total crap & the most idiotic argument yet today - and there have been quite a few.

Abhisit didn't close down all the red shirt radio stations. There were & are hundreds scattered throughout the country.

I see that you can't even recognise an opposition when you see one and make any sensible comment on why they were prevented from debating a constitutional amendment. They certainly oppose changes that benefit PTP which the constitutional amendment is designed to do.

I'm sure they will canvas the electorate when election time comes round. Doing it now would be a worthless strategy which seems to be the reason you suggest it.

Yes the charade of parliamentary debate PTP style. They'd issue another 'urgent' decree if they could get away with it.

Your view was nicely summed up by Ballpoint.

[mrfill]

Nothing misleading there are police attendance in all Parliaments and they all have guns - pointing in or out they are there. If there was a disturbance they would not run back to the gun cabinet (No pun intended) to lock away the gun just so they can run back to the matter at hand (I'm thinking of the key stone cops here)

But the key difference with the police with guns in the British parilament, my little red shirted friend, is that said police and not under the control or instruction of the the speaker of the house and would not be called upon to clear the house of commons if the opposition stood up and "Booed"

as "Iancnx" has stated the guns are pointing outwards, they are not charged with maintaining/invoking parilamentary "disipline"

Would this be the same parliament that has a device know as a guillotine which can cut short a debate and proceed to a vote because the Speaker thinks the debate is getting nowhere and could be timed out?

[Bagwan]

BANGKOK, August 20, 2013 (AFP) - Thailand's parliament briefly descended into chaos Tuesday as opposition lawmakers brawled with police during a debate on controversial proposals to amend the constitution.

That is how 'parliament' works...in chaos...but normally there isn't a 100 rozers in there to forcibly evict the opposition

Dares to zeds in rozzers.

(Former Editor of the OED)

[soundman]

Post removed for flaming. Keep it civil guys.

[kannot]

There was more logical debate on The Muppet Show years ago.

Luckily hardly anyone watches the debates in Parliament as the 'elected' (hahaha) members of Parliament are an embarrassment to their country. I guess it's not the worst example of a democracy in the world, but it is close to being the most comical. I wouldn't like to trust any of these jokers with something serious like brushing their own teeth, crossing a busy road on their own or finishing their homework! The Thai Parliament is something like an exclusive Thai Mr. Bean politics club.

If you want to see the occasional Muay Thai fight, an MP waving a shoe at someone or police dancing in a circle around the House Speaker, then tune in for more fun tomorrow.

Better manners, ethics and a willingness to behave in public are more commonly found among kindergarten students. I dare to add that students of the same age have probably accomplished far more in the last 2-3 years than all the Thai politicians put together.

The present government - and I use the term 'government' loosely - are an absolute farce, even by normal standards in this part of the world. As for the opposition, they are not much better. Sadly, there is so little interest in the political future of the country by the majority of the population after years and years of listening to lies and arguments. Therefore, we can't expect the youth of Thailand to show much interest in the future of their country either until it affects them badly in the pocket. It is an economic crash like we had in 1997 that will hopefully force people to take more interest in their country's future.

They dont have to take notice as they have rammed down their throats form birth how great Thailand is, tell em its known as one if the worlds biggest whorehouses and see their faces.

[FangFerang]

The writing is on the wall and I am unsure what can be done. The PTP have taken over like a cancer and regardless of the medication this country now takes, they wont get rid of the cancer. In the west, the media and the people would string this lot up, it would be a relentless barrage of opposition from the public, but here, the Thai's just accept. They accept for a number of reasons, one is that they are genuinely scared of intimidation, arrest and extra judicial killing...people just disappear. Look at how the Government and the Police have intimidated the population with the scare tactics over the use of social media. The arrest any TV and News journalist for saying the slightest thing out of place, and the PM sues her critics.

I truly hope when this is all done and dusted and PTP have a vice like grip over this country, it's people and it's resources that the red supporters and apologists on Thai Visa have the balls to admit, even if only to themselves, that they endorsed and supported a dynasty of criminals to establish a communist regime in which they are the dynastic rulers of a one party police state. It makes me sick to the stomach to think that allegedly educated westerners could offer the remotest support to these people.

Tony Bliar and Emma Thompson, beware, you too are being used to lend these criminals a sense of advocacy. The PTP are waiting for that fateful day that we all know is coming, and during the mass grieving that will be witnessed on a scale the modern world has never seen, the fox will return and destroy his enemies while they sleep.

A bit of melodrama never helped anyone.

[Bagwan]

It might be more appropriate if all the policemen were withdrawn from Parliament House and replaced with men in white coats. Furthermore, forget the disgraced Blair, Jerry Springer would be a more suitable choice. He probably comes cheaper too.

Rather than put Thailand on the World stage this episode puts them in a ring, the show sponsored by WWE.

The message to technical college students is 'Carry on brawling'.

[sandrabbit]

The writing is on the wall and I am unsure what can be done. The PTP have taken over like a cancer and regardless of the medication this country now takes, they wont get rid of the cancer. In the west, the media and the people would string this lot up, it would be a relentless barrage of opposition from the public, but here, the Thai's just accept. They accept for a number of reasons, one is that they are genuinely scared of intimidation, arrest and extra judicial killing...people just disappear. Look at how the Government and the Police have intimidated the population with the scare tactics over the use of social media. The arrest any TV and News journalist for saying the slightest thing out of place, and the PM sues her critics.

I truly hope when this is all done and dusted and PTP have a vice like grip over this country, it's people and it's resources that the red supporters and apologists on Thai Visa have the balls to admit, even if only to themselves, that they endorsed and supported a dynasty of criminals to establish a communist regime in which they are the dynastic rulers of a one party police state. It makes me sick to the stomach to think that allegedly educated westerners could offer the remotest support to these people.

Tony Bliar and Emma Thompson, beware, you too are being used to lend these criminals a sense of advocacy. The PTP are waiting for that fateful day that we all know is coming, and during the mass grieving that will be witnessed on a scale the modern world has never seen, the fox will return and destroy his enemies while they sleep.

"it makes me sick to the stomach to think that allegedly educated westerners could offer the remotest support to these people"

Seems like the supporters of PTP and the Red Shirts have gone deathly quiet,could it be they are beginning to realise the terrible mistake,that they were mistakenly,supporting the underdog,but in reality,setting the table for Communism,and a Police State,control of the Country through the use of Fascism, Corruption and Wealth,for the already rich,greedy for more, by Undemocratic means.

Sadly, and eventually the Reds will realise they have been used by the PTP ,conned and naive,and they will not become rich, just more of the same,empty promises. until next time........

sorry but I'm old school, communism & fascism are opposites aren't they?.

[rijb]

That's what I thought...

Edited August 21, 2013 by rijb

[annabel]

Wasn't there a former promise that any constitutional-changes like these would be put to a referendum, rather than simply rushed/forced through parliament, like this ?

Forgive me if I've missed something, I've been away overseas quite a lot, over the past few months.

Yup and I have also asked that question on TV quite a few times .... ?? BUT no replies or TV has short term memory loss maube???

[annabel]

Wait a minute.... The article specifically explains that the speaker intended to continue or begin debate on the matters but only if the opposition would sit down and follow the rules standard for human debate. That means sitting down an waiting your turn to voice your opinion, not standing up and yelling or booing. It sounds to me like they were the ones who wanted to obstruct the debate. If it was so important to them and their cause was just then why yell out and stand around and obstruct. they should have sat down when the speaker said to, then when he stopped the debate after they followed the rules of parliamentary debate, everyone would have seen the corruption you all speak of. You people should pay attention to the facts of the article.

Good luck.

Welcome to ThaiVisa !

One other fact was that the Speaker only intended to allow two of the opposition to speak, out of the crowd who had wanted to, and put their names down.

Would you agree that this was a deliberate attempt, by the supposedly-neutral but-PTP-party-member Speaker, to stifle the debate in a very-unparliamentary way, and that actually the Democrat-MPs were (at least to some extent) merely standing-up for the 'rules of parliamentary debate' which we (probably) all support ?

"Nipit, who said there were some 100 police in parliament at the time, said opposition MPs were angry at being denied time to speak about the proposals, which would change the senate to a fully elected body."

I'm not sure about your "fact" because according to the article it is hear say and tertiary information via "Nipit", but if it is a fact then it makes the behavior more questionable since the 57 members protesting the debate, which is by the way, a fact, should have accepted a representational debate for the sake of expediting their concerns to a status of permanent record which is very important to their cause since they are the minority party and voting doesn't matter for obvious reasons including the possible conspiratorial presence of the majority. This was intelligently pointed out in another reply by a fellow forumer, but I'll get to that in a minute.

Please don't !

[MAJIC]

The writing is on the wall and I am unsure what can be done. The PTP have taken over like a cancer and regardless of the medication this country now takes, they wont get rid of the cancer. In the west, the media and the people would string this lot up, it would be a relentless barrage of opposition from the public, but here, the Thai's just accept. They accept for a number of reasons, one is that they are genuinely scared of intimidation, arrest and extra judicial killing...people just disappear. Look at how the Government and the Police have intimidated the population with the scare tactics over the use of social media. The arrest any TV and News journalist for saying the slightest thing out of place, and the PM sues her critics.

I truly hope when this is all done and dusted and PTP have a vice like grip over this country, it's people and it's resources that the red supporters and apologists on Thai Visa have the balls to admit, even if only to themselves, that they endorsed and supported a dynasty of criminals to establish a communist regime in which they are the dynastic rulers of a one party police state. It makes me sick to the stomach to think that allegedly educated westerners could offer the remotest support to these people.

Tony Bliar and Emma Thompson, beware, you too are being used to lend these criminals a sense of advocacy. The PTP are waiting for that fateful day that we all know is coming, and during the mass grieving that will be witnessed on a scale the modern world has never seen, the fox will return and destroy his enemies while they sleep.

"it makes me sick to the stomach to think that allegedly educated westerners could offer the remotest support to these people"

Seems like the supporters of PTP and the Red Shirts have gone deathly quiet,could it be they are beginning to realise the terrible mistake,that they were mistakenly,supporting the underdog,but in reality,setting the table for Communism,and a Police State,control of the Country through the use of Fascism, Corruption and Wealth,for the already rich,greedy for more, by Undemocratic means.

Sadly, and eventually the Reds will realise they have been used by the PTP ,conned and naive,and they will not become rich, just more of the same,empty promises. until next time........

sorry but I'm old school, communism & fascism are opposites aren't they?.

Arguably Fascism can lead onto Communism.

Read the two dictionary discriptions:

Both are basicaly Dictatorial State Control of the people.

Chairman Mao,managed to pull off the Dictator Role,while seemingly running a Communist system,with him the supreme Dictator.

[MrSlatersParrot]

Shame you were just getting going

[ABCer]

The writing is on the wall and I am unsure what can be done. The PTP have taken over like a cancer and regardless of the medication this country now takes, they wont get rid of the cancer. In the west, the media and the people would string this lot up, it would be a relentless barrage of opposition from the public, but here, the Thai's just accept. They accept for a number of reasons, one is that they are genuinely scared of intimidation, arrest and extra judicial killing...people just disappear. Look at how the Government and the Police have intimidated the population with the scare tactics over the use of social media. The arrest any TV and News journalist for saying the slightest thing out of place, and the PM sues her critics.

I truly hope when this is all done and dusted and PTP have a vice like grip over this country, it's people and it's resources that the red supporters and apologists on Thai Visa have the balls to admit, even if only to themselves, that they endorsed and supported a dynasty of criminals to establish a communist regime in which they are the dynastic rulers of a one party police state. It makes me sick to the stomach to think that allegedly educated westerners could offer the remotest support to these people.

Tony Bliar and Emma Thompson, beware, you too are being used to lend these criminals a sense of advocacy. The PTP are waiting for that fateful day that we all know is coming, and during the mass grieving that will be witnessed on a scale the modern world has never seen, the fox will return and destroy his enemies while they sleep.

"it makes me sick to the stomach to think that allegedly educated westerners could offer the remotest support to these people"

Seems like the supporters of PTP and the Red Shirts have gone deathly quiet,could it be they are beginning to realise the terrible mistake,that they were mistakenly,supporting the underdog,but in reality,setting the table for Communism,and a Police State,control of the Country through the use of Fascism, Corruption and Wealth,for the already rich,greedy for more, by Undemocratic means.

Sadly, and eventually the Reds will realise they have been used by the PTP ,conned and naive,and they will not become rich, just more of the same,empty promises. until next time........

sorry but I'm old school, communism & fascism are opposites aren't they?.

sandrabbit,

sorry, did I miss on your sarcasm, or are you of a very old school?

In the very old school of thought the political regimes were represented on a straight line with communism on the left democracy in the centre and fascism on the right.

Not so old school presents political regimes on a circle with democracy on top, communism on left side, fascism on right side and dictatorship at the bottom.

This picture explains that 1) democracy is the least stable form; 2) democracy has a tendency to start falling right or left; 3) the end most stable position seems to be at the bottom.

It helps to look back to history. The decline and fall of Roman Empire took about 400 years. This alone is longer than the oldest greatest democracy in any country.

Cheers.

I am very skeptical and not a believer in 'True Democracy', sorry...

Better reach for my hard helmet, though...

Edited August 22, 2013 by ABCer

[gemini81]

I'm always impressed by the lengths people will go to question the mandate the PTP received in the last election. Always the same questionable assertions: people were too stupid to vote for the "right party", they were intimidated into voting for the "wrong party", and/or their votes were bought. Opinion polls continue to put the PTP ahead of the Dems, which basically nullifies the second two "explanations" (or are people bribed and intimidated during opinion polls as well??). That leaves the first, offensive, "explanation"... which is that the people are too ignorant to know what is good for them. That's some sound democratic (and Democratic) thinking! Or put another way, "those people must be stupid because they like a party that I don't like".

What you have got in colloquial terms is the wrong end of the stick.

People are within their rights to question any so-called mandate as we haven't yet arrived at censorship on TV like (sic) what users of Facebook & Line are currently facing.

While there was the usual vote buying both via the local leaders & the disastrous rice scam (with some intimidation thrown in), I don't doubt that PTP won the last election. That however does not allow them to do as they please which they have continued to do. They haven't accepted any checks & balances which I (& you hopefully) regard as a part of any democratic process.

The opinion polls are not worth a satang. If you can remember the Bangkok governor election polls then you might be wise to leave them out of any argument.

Many of the people who voted for the PTP are not stupid but they are prone to brainwashing, intimidation, vote buying & promises. Red shirt villages don't help strategic thinking.

The idea with the redshirt villages is to remove the brainwashing and all the received wisdom. That's why Abhisit closed down all the red shirt radio.

He couldn't allow an alternative version of events to be heard.

What we get from the dems is this spectacle in parliament.

Are they hoping after their letter to the embassies to garner some support? Perhaps some celebrity endorsements?

My view is they have a plan. The same plan they've had since 2005.

When out of office oppose everything and everyone and in the end take to the streets

Question is do people want democracy with all its faults or do they want governance imposed on them by unaccountable elites?

If the dems wanted government through the electorate they would at least canvas the electorate. Work out a set of policies.

They talk a lot about it but they never really deliver because they oppose change.

Unelectable.

Hence this charade.

That is so untrue. Did you even listen to the broadcasts?Shouting, swearing, anger and the most rudimentary speeches of free handouts..the tone sounded JUST LIKE Hitler's speeches!

He removed it due to threats, violations, and hopefully to try and remove ignorance.

What about the police charade?

Do your research on the programs Abhisit was implementing.

The post you made is just like a rural uneducated Thai farmer. Unbelievable.

[harkish]

Of course the Democrat-aligned appointed senators are against election of senators. They are Democrats, after all, and election would mean democracy ie majority rule and they will lose. No more cushy Senate seat.

I don't like the crony capitalism of Thailand any more than the next guy, but better that at least they be the cronies that the majority that people support, not just the cronies the BKK elite support.

[gemini81]

Of course the Democrat-aligned appointed senators are against election of senators. They are Democrats, after all, and election would mean democracy ie majority rule and they will lose. No more cushy Senate seat.

I don't like the crony capitalism of Thailand any more than the next guy, but better that at least they be the cronies that the majority that people support, not just the cronies the BKK elite support.

Your 5th post sounds prodigious.

[thaicbr]

Of course the Democrat-aligned appointed senators are against election of senators.  They are Democrats, after all, and election would mean democracy ie majority rule and they will lose.  No more cushy Senate seat.

 

I don't like the crony capitalism of Thailand any more than the next guy, but better that at least they be the cronies that the majority that people support, not just the cronies the BKK elite support.

But who votes for them????

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

[thaicbr]

 

It must be obvious to even the most simple minded what went on here.

Quote:

"To cut short the debate, which did not go anywhere in the morning, Somsak, who had taken the chairmanship in the afternoon, said he would allow only two representatives from the government and opposition MPs and senators to speak before voting. Following protests from the floor, he called for voting. The meeting voted 339:15 against the 57 speaking."

So 339:15votes against and yet the 57 stood to speak?

Only 15 votes to speak.

6 speakers were to be allowed. Already half the day had gone with no progress.

Obviously the rules don't apply to the dems. They're above politics really in the blue sky looking down

 

we all know what the vote would be.. Thaksin has the parliament vote tied up.. the issue is that elected Mp's were given no opportunity to do their job.. Don't forget at the beginning of the debate nothing was said about the 60 Democrats that had requested time to speak as per parliament rules. They only got noisy when they were declined that opportunity. 

 

 

Can you link me to the article which details this? The OP does not state what you say.

No. Because the information comes from a number of articles.. you could find the information easily if you tried.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

[Scott]

Inflammatory post deleted.