Bradley Manning sentenced to 35 years in Wikileaks case

[Scott]

A troll post has been removed.

[rammis35]

Awesome.

Bradley Manning, the Army private sentenced to military prison for leaking classified documents, revealed he intends to live out the remainder of his life as a woman.

http://m.today.com/news/bradley-manning-i-want-live-woman-6C10974915

Yeah, he wants to be called Chelsea Manning now. And now he wants the government to pay for his hormone therapy and eventual sex change while he is in prison. Maybe that is why he did it, not to be a hero (as some call him) but for a free chassis change....

[Jingthing]

I don't know why people would be so mean spirited as to begrudge Chelsea the hormone therapy. It's not a luxury, it's a medical issue. I don't think a sex change operation is a reasonable demand in prison and as yet Chelsea has not requested that, so don't jump to conclusions that she ever would. Plenty of transgender people never feel the desire to go for the final step anyway.

Edited August 23, 2013 by Jingthing

[midas]

Not from a military prison, and review board.

Killing someone and being sorry, maybe.

Disclosing national secrets and failing to do you duty?

That wont be taken too kindly in a military environment.

This wont be a soft bodied and soft minded civilian review board.

35 years is too short IMO.

but I'm from a military family.

jamhar of course it is so easy to dismiss and ridicule someone like Bradley Manning but, if you say you come from a military family I'm curious as to what you think about the overall views of Col. Lawrence Wilkerson , who has had said some pretty controversial things recently regarding the Bradley Manning case (as well as controversial comments about a slew of other matters)

It's a bit harder to ridicule the likes of the Col. Wilkerson because of his credentials (i.e. Former chief of staff for U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell, Adjunct Professor of Government at the College of William and Mary)

...

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=10510

Do you agree with him? Have tyrants taken over the US military and government?

hey midas.

I edited the quote box for brevity.

First of all, I Iove being from a military family. Loved it and Proud of it.

If you're from a military family, you know that the US military is huge. And as in any large organization you can have people with all sorts of beliefs and political leanings. So I'm not surprised that there are dissident views. But regardless of your views, you follow your orders, and you keep your commitments to the service.

Have tyrants taken over the military?

The military has a mission. Its not a powder puff one. To carry out their mission, it maybe necessary to do horrible stuff. The possible ending of someones life, justified or not, is always horrible. "self defense", "it was war" ect. So the people in charge of the military are people that have the resolved to do horrible things if necessary. Tyrants? No.. But capable of killing? Yes, that's why we have them.

Has the Government been taken over by Tyrants? To be honest, when Obama was running. I thought he was a Dove. I was skeptical, but still voted for him. But IMO, Obama is walking that fine line between a Dove and a Hawk. If he was a true hawk, the US would have been involved with Syria, LONG time ago.

Regarding the colonel, he says some pretty wild stuff that i don't agree with. But he can have his views because he's retired and is now a civi.

“This could have been an Israeli false flag operation,” he said. “You’ve got basically a geo-strategically, geo-political — if you will — inept regime in Tel Aviv right now.”

Retired Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, former Chief of Staff to Colin Powell during the Bush administration, talks about how President Obama should handle early evidence that Syria may have used chemicals weapons.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article34813.htm

Inept? That goes contrary to his statement. Either the Israelis are incredibly capable, and are pulling this deception off, or they are inept and could not do this other than my mere accident.

So no I wont ridicule him, but I certainly do not agree.

OK you can question Retired Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson but you do have to admit surely when former Mossad chief Meir Dagan joins in using similar kind of rhetoric, people should start sitting up and taking more notice?

http://world.time.com/2012/08/13/why-do-israeli-media-keep-predicting-war-with-iran/

[F430murci]

Okay, this is getting beyond bizarre.

"

Manning eligible for parole after 7 years and then . . . "She wants to get a degree." "She want to find somebody that she loves." "Get married" and have a baby?????? Didn't know hormones would make that possible!

http://www.today.com/news/manning-wants-get-married-have-family-attorney-says-6C10984804

[Jingthing]

Okay, this is getting beyond bizarre.

"

Manning eligible for parole after 7 years and then . . . "She wants to get a degree." "She want to find somebody that she loves." "Get married" and have a baby?????? Didn't know hormones would make that possible!

http://www.today.com/news/manning-wants-get-married-have-family-attorney-says-6C10984804

Ms. Chelsea didn't say she intends to bear a baby and your link doesn't even mention a baby, only having a family. There are other ways.

Edited August 23, 2013 by Jingthing

[F430murci]

Okay, this is getting beyond bizarre.

"

Manning eligible for parole after 7 years and then . . . "She wants to get a degree." "She want to find somebody that she loves." "Get married" and have a baby?????? Didn't know hormones would make that possible!

http://www.today.com/news/manning-wants-get-married-have-family-attorney-says-6C10984804

Ms. Chelsea didn't say she intends to bear a baby and your link doesn't even mention a baby, only having a family. There are other ways.

Oh, I am confused. Is he, I mean she a lesbian so she can have sex as a he with her lesbian lover and have a baby.

The news link I clicked on said Manning wants to have a baby."

[lemoncake]

It wont stop further whistleblowers coming forward

And the world can decide what is morally worse. Leaking information about the way in which 2 innocent journalists were killed from a helicopter ............or trying to cover up a crime as the US Army tried to do

No one cares what the world thinks. He broke the oath of his country, and deserves every year he was given.

Whistle blowing and totally selling out your country are 2 very different matters

[Jingthing]

Okay, this is getting beyond bizarre.

"

Manning eligible for parole after 7 years and then . . . "She wants to get a degree." "She want to find somebody that she loves." "Get married" and have a baby?????? Didn't know hormones would make that possible!

http://www.today.com/news/manning-wants-get-married-have-family-attorney-says-6C10984804

Ms. Chelsea didn't say she intends to bear a baby and your link doesn't even mention a baby, only having a family. There are other ways.

Oh, I am confused. Is he, I mean she a lesbian so she can have sex as a he with her lesbian lover and have a baby.

The news link I clicked on said Manning wants to have a baby."

I don't know which sex she is attracted to. Most likely men. In the U.S. she can now marry a man or woman, her choice, and then try to start a family. There is adoption, etc. If she gets to the point of being released and she still has this desire, she can try. Her criminal record won't be helpful. So maybe she's dreaming now but I don't see the harm in it. As far as a potential while in prison marriage, that would probably depend on whether her prison is in a marriage equality state or not and also whether any marriage is allowed by inmates of military prison. If her prison allows any marriages and she wants to marry and the prison is not in a marriage equality state, she might even have the makings of a major court case if they don't allow her a short trip to a marriage equality state to marry (which is now something the military does for non-prisoner soldiers needing a trip to a marriage equality state, including a paid holiday leave). She could marry a person who already has children. What she dreams of is not impossible. Not easy either.

I don't think prisoner Chelsea is a positive role model for soldiers, for gays, for transgenders, for white people, for anyone really. But she still has human rights and she hopes to get out of prison much sooner than her sentence and that is very possible. Personally if I was the one judging there suitability for being a parent, based on what I know, I would reject her, but not because of her gender identity issues, more like the entire package ...

Edited August 23, 2013 by Jingthing

[theblether]

In Scotland we have the National Induction Centre for long term prisoners. They spend a year there before moving into the Cat A halls. These guys are the most serious offenders.

I had a gf that worked supporting the guys in the NIC. It didn't matter if they had been imprisoned before, or if they had spent a long time in remand, the trauma of being given for example in this case, a 35 year sentence could be too much for the hardiest of guys.

In the bad old days they were just thrown in at the deep end. Some went on to commit suicide, many others flipped altogether and never recovered their mental health. Under no circumstances would a request like this from Manning be considered at the moment, so soon after his sentence had been passed. It's considered to be a very dangerous time in regards to their mental health, and possible self harm.

The psychologists would have to monitor his mental state for a while, I believe the figure is a minimum of two years, before even considering anything like this. We are all aware through media reports that Manning had gender identity issues. In Scotland that would have been noted on his files and he would have been counseled on the matter, and a path mapped out by the psychologists based upon their assessments gathered over time.

Manning had the opportunity before committing this crime to seriously address his gender identity problem. For whatever reason known most likely only to him he did not. As far as I am aware he was found sane and fit to stand trial. Part of the punishment is a loss of control over what you could do freely outside the bars. The US is right to refuse him any assistance in regards to hormone treatment or to indulge his wishes to be known by another name at the moment.

The rightful assumption is that he is in no fit state of mind to make a definitive lifelong decision like that at the moment. If the US have a programme in regards to transgender people within the prison system, I don't know. The compassionate thing would be to offer assistance at a later date, for example, two years, if his psychologists agree.

I think that would be fair enough.

He, Bradley Manning, will have to accept the consequences of his actions. Right now he has now opinion, the US Gov are effectively his guardians. They will decide what is in his best interests. When he released the tapes he imprisoned Chelsea.

That's entirely his fault, Up To Him.

[Jingthing]

OK, I looked into this.

In regular U.S. prisons, prisons have policies to provide hormone treatments to prisoners on preexisting hormone therapy. They don't always get the same level of hormones as before and there doesn't appear to be any constitutional issue with not providing that. New cases in prison are not helped.

The military according recent press doesn't do it at all. There is lots of litigation on these matters and recent trends are the people asking for hormones in regular prison are starting to win.

However, given its military prison in this case and an no preexisting hormone treatment, I'd say Chelsea's chances at prison hormones are indeed slim.

Edited August 23, 2013 by Jingthing

[F430murci]

OK, I looked into this.

In regular U.S. prisons, prisons have policies to provide hormone treatments to prisoners on preexisting hormone therapy. They don't always get the same level of hormones as before and there doesn't appear to be any constitutional issue with not providing that. New cases in prison are not helped.

The military according recent press doesn't do it at all. There is lots of litigation on these matters and recent trends are the people asking for hormones in regular prison are starting to win.

However, given its military prison in this case and an no preexisting hormone treatment, I'd say Chelsea's chances at prison hormones are indeed slim.

So Chelsea will be a Chester for at least the next 7 years.

[Scott]

If a private person or group would pay for the hormone therapy, would it be allowed? I don't know any that are planning on helping, but I am curious about it. Is it denied because of the cost/necessity or are there other reasons?

[Jingthing]

I'm pretty sure it's a policy matter and other people paying wouldn't make any difference.

[evadgib]

Having seen the latest revelations about Mr/Miss Manning I question how (s)he entered service in the first place & achieved the necessary vetting to commit the crimes for which (s)he has been convicted.

[harrry]

Manning will be in a miltary prison doing hard labor with very strict guards. No matter how much time he ends up doing, he will very much regret violating his secrecy oath.

I don't think either you or I would have the slightest idea what he would regret. Nor what he might have regretted had he not done what he did.

I believe that a man should stand up for what he believes in, and not shut up, simply because the authorities tell him to do so. If he is later convicted for it, then you can imagine that he was well aware that this might be one of the outcomes he achieved.

TL

Seems so incredible to me !

It is so useless to fight US, why doing it ???

I'd be inclined to agree and I might question the way he went about doing what he believed in, but I celebrate his having the balls to do something about it.

But he does not want to have the balls.

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed. Let's discuss Bradley Manning and his sentence, please.

[midas]

It wont stop further whistleblowers coming forward

And the world can decide what is morally worse. Leaking information about the way in which 2 innocent journalists were killed from a helicopter ............or trying to cover up a crime as the US Army tried to do

No one cares what the world thinks. He broke the oath of his country, and deserves every year he was given.

Whistle blowing and totally selling out your country are 2 very different matters

which oath are you referring to? Did Bradley Manning swear an oath not expose the killing of civilians ?

[lemoncake]

It wont stop further whistleblowers coming forward

And the world can decide what is morally worse. Leaking information about the way in which 2 innocent journalists were killed from a helicopter ............or trying to cover up a crime as the US Army tried to do

No one cares what the world thinks. He broke the oath of his country, and deserves every year he was given.

Whistle blowing and totally selling out your country are 2 very different matters

which oath are you referring to? Did Bradley Manning swear an oath not expose the killing of civilians ?

The one taken when he decided to enlist in the military

IF he wanted to save the world as you do, he should have enlisted with Green Peace, NOT US Military

Edited August 24, 2013 by lemoncake

[mania]

The one taken when he decided to enlist in the military:rolleyes:

IF he wanted to save the world as you do, he should have enlisted with Green Peace, NOT US Military

That would be this oath then

I guess there could be some subject to interpretation if he thought he was in fact defending the Constitution but I guess he has had his trial.

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

But if breaking this oath is at the root of the jail time

Then this oath specified in Article II, Section 1, of the Constitution that the Presidents of the US swear to uphold could also be used as evidence ?

Especially in light of recent events

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States.

Edited August 24, 2013 by mania

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.

[jaffacakes1]

"I would like to be treated as a woman" - Pte Bradley Manning

Not the exact words I would be using before being locked in a building with thousands of rapists for 35 years...

[Asiantravel]

It wont stop further whistleblowers coming forward

And the world can decide what is morally worse. Leaking information about the way in which 2 innocent journalists were killed from a helicopter ............or trying to cover up a crime as the US Army tried to do

No one cares what the world thinks. He broke the oath of his country, and deserves every year he was given.

Whistle blowing and totally selling out your country are 2 very different matters

which oath are you referring to? Did Bradley Manning swear an oath not expose the killing of civilians ?

The one taken when he decided to enlist in the military

IF he wanted to save the world as you do, he should have enlisted with Green Peace, NOT US Military

surely it is about exposing wrondoing ?

Edited August 24, 2013 by Asiantravel

[Scott]

This thread is about his sentence and current conditions. The events leading up to his conviction and sentence are in other threads.

Stay on topic.

[midas]

No one cares what the world thinks. He broke the oath of his country, and deserves every year he was given.

Whistle blowing and totally selling out your country are 2 very different matters

which oath are you referring to? Did Bradley Manning swear an oath not expose the killing of civilians ?

The one taken when he decided to enlist in the military

IF he wanted to save the world as you do, he should have enlisted with Green Peace, NOT US Military

Bradley Manning to request pardon from Obama over 35-year jail sentence

Ben Wizner, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's Speech, Privacy & Technology Project, said: "When a soldier who shared information with the press and public is punished far more harshly than others who tortured prisoners and killed civilians, something is seriously wrong with our justice system.

"A legal system that doesn't distinguish between leaks to the press in the public interest and treason against the nation will not only produce unjust results, but will deprive the public of critical information that is necessary for democratic accountability."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/21/bradley-manning-pardon-obama-35-year-sentence

Edited August 24, 2013 by midas

[lemoncake]

No one cares what the world thinks. He broke the oath of his country, and deserves every year he was given.

Whistle blowing and totally selling out your country are 2 very different matters

which oath are you referring to? Did Bradley Manning swear an oath not expose the killing of civilians ?

The one taken when he decided to enlist in the military

IF he wanted to save the world as you do, he should have enlisted with Green Peace, NOT US Military

Bradley Manning to request pardon from Obama over 35-year jail sentence

Ben Wizner, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's Speech, Privacy & Technology Project, said: "When a soldier who shared information with the press and public is punished far more harshly than others who tortured prisoners and killed civilians, something is seriously wrong with our justice system.

"A legal system that doesn't distinguish between leaks to the press in the public interest and treason against the nation will not only produce unjust results, but will deprive the public of critical information that is necessary for democratic accountability."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/21/bradley-manning-pardon-obama-35-year-sentence

Lets see what president thinks

[AngelsLariat]

No one cares what the world thinks. He broke the oath of his country, and deserves every year he was given.

Whistle blowing and totally selling out your country are 2 very different matters

which oath are you referring to? Did Bradley Manning swear an oath not expose the killing of civilians ?

The one taken when he decided to enlist in the military:rolleyes:

IF he wanted to save the world as you do, he should have enlisted with Green Peace, NOT US Military

surely it is about exposing wrondoing ?

No, he joined the military thinking that the hyper-masculine environment might put his sexuality back on track.

As for him releasing information to expose crimes, the problem with that defense is that he indiscriminately released hundreds of thousands of pages of documents of whose contents he was not even vaguely familiar. Whistle blowers do not indiscriminately release information.

Edited August 24, 2013 by AngelsLariat

[Ulysses G.]

Bradley Manning to request pardon from Obama over 35-year jail sentence

He will get it when monkeys learn to fly.

[Credo]

That Bradley Manning was such a bad boy, but that Chelsea Manning is such a good girl and she has already served a long sentence locked inside the wrong body.

[thaimlord]

No, he joined the military thinking that the hyper-masculine environment might put his sexuality back on track.

As for him releasing information to expose crimes, the problem with that defense is that he indiscriminately released hundreds of thousands of pages of documents of whose contents he was not even vaguely familiar. Whistle blowers do not indiscriminately release information.

-----

As for him releasing information to expose crimes, the problem with that defense is that he indiscriminately released hundreds of thousands of pages of documents of whose contents he was not even vaguely familiar. Whistle blowers do not indiscriminately release information.

-----

That's a very valid point.

TL