Thai Restaurants Overseas - Good Or Bad?

[astral]

My Thai wife and son came to visit me here in the Middle East, and we decided to take

our friends to the Blue Elephant Thai restaurant for an authentic meal.

What a disappointment.

The ambience was excellent, laid out like a classical Thai house and the choice on the

menu looked good. Between us, my wife and I ordered the meal.

When the dishes were served we were appalled at the tiny quantities offered

and even worse the almost total lack of taste in the food.

The prices were in a par with a high quality western restaurant in Europe.

We met the chef and he was a Thai, the only one in the place.

Now, I have eaten in Thai restaurants in London and I realise the need to tame

down the spices from the normal Thai level, but this restaurant had taken it to the extreme.

Was I just unlucky??

[MarkBKK]

I've eaten a few times at the Blue Elephants in London and Paris (not my choice and I wasn't paying). Both offer food that seems to be neither Thai nor good value. Fresh Thai ingredients are available in London (no idea about Paris) and there are some pretty good Thai restaurants (including David Thompson's Michelin-starred Nahm) in London.

I'm told that the Blue Elephant in Bangkok is good. But then it should be,

[sabaijai]

I've only tried the Blue Elephant in Bangkok, and I think it's good. I got to know the menu well the first year and a half they were open because my wife served as cooking consultant to the head chef to Blue Elephant when it first opened in Bangkok. I was invited to several tastings both before the BE menu was first established, and again about a year later when they were adding new items to the menu (one of which, thawt man made with crocodile tail, I nixed and they never added). [aside: My wife, herself a chef/owner of four Thai restaurants (all of which she has sold), is an expert on tamrap boraan, traditional recipes that are dying out and/or difficult to find nowadays.]

Anwyay I found some dishes at the BE Bangkok to be authentic renderings of traditional dishes while some are fusion in approach (e.g., salmon laap). I thought the fusion dishes were slightly more successful. For the traditional dishes it's easy to say the prices are way beyond what, say, a khao kaeng might cost around the corner but you're paying for higher quality ingredients (all curry pastes made fresh, highest quality ka-pi used, freshest fish, etc) and of course for the service and ambience. Putting price aside, most of what I've eaten there has been excellent, though I have not been back since that first year. I hope it hasn't changed.

I'd really like to try David Thompson's restaurant in London. His Larousse-style book on Thai cuisine contains quite a few culinary and cultural errors (but then no one knows everything there is to know about Thai cuisine, we can all find fault somewhere ). There are rumours Thompson is going to open something Bangkok, quite daring although I'm sure that he - like the Blue Elephant Bangkok - has a Thai executive chef. BTW the head chef at BE Bangkok - a Thai Muslim (often the best Bangkok cooks) - is part owner of the entire chain.

One big problem I have with both restaurants (though I haven't been to Nahm, I've seen the menu) is the way they shoehorn Thai dishes into a Western menu format, ie, Appetisers, Entrees, etc. Thai dishes aren't meant to served in courses and for me the Thai dining experience suffers when the traditional format is changed.

[cooL_guY_corY]

i went to a thailand restaurant out of the tropics and, i paid about 10 times the price, had to put up with VERY realistic thai service ( 45 minutes for a beer ) although since it was in a restaurant instead of just on the street or something there was a terrible ratio of thai waiters to people eating. I could have made better food if i didnt have hands.

Anyways eating thai food in the tropics is very fun.

Edited April 17, 2006 by cooL_guY_corY

[MarkBKK]

Yes, the BEs in London and Paris are both nice venues, but compared to somewhere like La Porte des Indes (up-market Goan-style curry house in London, own waterfall, etc. which I've been told has gone off but used to be excellent), or even the Africa Centre (not so pretty but used to have good food), the food was very dissapointing -- for any price, especially compared to some of the Thai cafes that popped up in pubs in the late 80s/early 90s.

I agree with you about Thai food being forced into a Western-style meal format. A bit sad really.

[mikeybee]

hey the only thing that's thia about the food in these restraunt's is the name's and that is little doubtful,as all good food out of it's own country it get's spoilt by western taste,the only way to have a good thia meal out of thialand is to have a thia partner or thia friend cook it for you the correct way why should the spices and ingriedents be changed so people will enjoy it more,it's made this way in thialand and people like it,if some don't like it then try another dish stop spoiling the food restraunts.

well that's the way i see it.

Edited April 17, 2006 by mikeybee

[sabaijai]

hey the only thing that's thia about the food in these restraunt's is the name's and that is little doubtful,as all good food out of it's own country it get's spoilt by western taste,the only way to have a good thia meal out of thialand is to have a thia partner or thia friend cook it for you the correct way why should the spices and ingriedents be changed so people will enjoy it more,it's made this way in thialand and people like it,if some don't like it then try another dish stop spoiling the food restraunts.

well that's the way i see it.

What is this 'thia' food and where is 'Thialand'?

[Rinrada]

Bit like "bubble and squeek" and probably sumwer in Ingland

[cclub75]

Well I enjoyed a few years ago the Blue Elephant in Paris (near place de la Bastille). A that time it was exotic for me.

The venue is nice too (like a garden). But too many people. After a few times I had the feeling to be in a factory.

Anyway.

Recently I tried the BL in Bangkok. Oh my.... The white house is nice, but the food... awful. And inside, you can smell the bad air conditionning.

Voila.

A friend recommends the restaurant : "Sukhothai"

12 r Père Guérin 75013 PARIS

Small one, but great food.

[Franca]

The best place for Thai food in New York City is Kittichai. It's run by Ian Chalermkittichai, who was chef at the Four Seasons before this.

For any Thai food newbies, read about eating Thai food at http://www.foodvirgin.com/columns/Thai.htm It's part of a great website that explains how to eat a lot of different cuisines to people who've never tried them before (or people who have, but have questions about the details). This particular article includes an interview with Ian.

Edited May 13, 2006 by Franca

[Rinrada]

Few comments from people who have tried the Blue Elephant here in London.

Never tried it yet and heard that its top notch scram but looks like (according to reviewers) doing an overcharge on Bill rip-off just like in LOS

Anyway as said cant really commment.......

Handy for this years Battersea Thai Food Festival which will be on Sunday 13th August and NOT July..2006.......See Yous There....

http://www.london-eating.co.uk/8.htm

[MarkBKK]

Few comments from people who have tried the Blue Elephant here in London.

Never tried it yet and heard that its top notch scram but looks like (according to reviewers) doing an overcharge on Bill rip-off just like in LOS

Anyway as said cant really commment.......

Handy for this years Battersea Thai Food Festival which will be on Sunday 13th August and NOT July..2006.......See Yous There....

http://www.london-eating.co.uk/8.htm

It is (was) average scran at best ... I saw one review in the '90s that compared it (food-wise) unfavourably with the Thai Cottage (which was OK but never great). Perhaps it's got better since Nahm got its Michelin star.

[p1p]

Some years ago I owned and ran some Thai restaurants in London. At the time, we were known for the authenticity of our cuisine. (We were the ninth Thai restaurant to open in the UK, the first owned by a non-Thai, and the first to import our own ingredients on a weekly basis.)

When the Blue Elephant opened, it quickly built up a clientelle, based on those for whom ambience and style were of more importance than substance. Our clientelle, on the other hand, was composed primarily of expatriate Thais, ex-expatriate Farang and Farang Foodies.

I haven't eaten in any Blue Elephant for over fifteen years now, but the food was always heavily westernised, while ambience and service were stunning. It is horses for courses I suppose as to what style you prefer when dining out.

[steakpudding]

I have been to a few Thai restaurants in London and my favourite is Thai Square (Trafalgar Sq one). Food was authentic although less spicy to general UK standard but they would be more than happy to make it as spicy as you like (by saying "aow ped ped", or anything that would let them know you are capable of eating "real" spicy food). I went to one in Chorley but was disappointed (pricy and unauthentic) but then I wasn't sure if they knew I was Thai (the waitress was British I believe, so I couldn't speak Thai to her)

In general I have been quite happy with Thai food in the UK. It's the dessert that I have the cravings for!

[sabaijai]

The best place for Thai food in New York City is Kittichai. It's run by Ian Chalermkittichai, who was chef at the Four Seasons before this.

I've not had the pleasure of dining at Kittichai in NY but I did attend a private dinner prepared by Chef Ian in Bangkok a few years ago. Its was one of the most memorable dining experiences I've thus far had--very impressed with his 'global Thai' approach.

In any serious discussion/review of Thai cooking I think you need to distinguish between classic and innovative approaches. I doubt chefs like Ian Chalermkittichai are all that good at classic Thai cooking. On the other hand he excels at innovative Thai cooking.

BTW the Blue Elephant in Bangkok does not westernise its recipes at all, from what I can tell. However I don't find the traditional recipes that exciting. I get the impression the head Thai chef is more impassioned with the (relatively few, last I checked over a year ago) fusion dishes.

Where some Thai restaurants abroad (and, increasingly, in Bangkok) go wrong is where they try to fit classic Thai cuisine into upscale design/ambience. Come to think of it, it's a potential issue with all national cuisines. The best classic cooking is typically found in small, family-owned, traditionally-themed spots in the country of origin, whether Italy, France, the UK or Thailand. Consciously innovative cooking--an approach that I suppose began with France's nouvelle cuisine?--fits well in design-conscious eateries and can thrive virtually anywhere in the world (since innovative chefs will adapt to local ingredients, which are usuallly seen as more desirable from the perspective of the freshness & quality of selection) .

This may have something to do with the fact that owners/investors interested in making a design statement don't have the culinary 'roots' to successfully manage classic cooking. Or it may simply be that our expectations, as customers, are altered by elegant surroundings, such that classic recipes somehow 'clash' with the ambience. Or maybe it's both--either way it doesn't seem to work very well.

[cathyy]

Good Thai food can be found where I live, in SE Michigan, but there are no chains. All the Thai restaurants are small family-owned places run by...Laotians. I swear, not a single Thai running one around here. We tried a new one the other day, and it was authentic, not Westernized. My husband and I took our niece and nephew out for Thai food. They were repulsed when I ordered sticky rice with mango for dessert - until they tasted it!

5 days until I get on the plane!

[Nignoy]

Just a comment on thai restaurants in Southern England, Until we emigrated to australia in 1996, we ran a volantary thai social club at our home in farnborough hants, it became a meeting place for thai restaurant owners and their staff from all over, hants ,surrey sussex and london, we got to know the restaurants that served authentic thai cuisine and our opinions and comments on menu,s and service were often used, this was long before Thai cuisine became fashionable , even in the late 70,s there were thai restaurants in guildford , redhill , camberley and putney, serving exquisite genuine thai cuisine , now with the new art niveau style of thai cooking that seems to be taking over, back in another life when Escoffier and La repertoire were my bible, I used to enjoy authentic ethnic foods, and then 6 years in Isaan just blew my mind as far as food was concerned.But to pay 300 pounds for a so called highclass authentic thai meal for 4 people, in mayfair last year , and be served a really apalling meal, when I asked for the chef out came a young commi who admitted to having no Idea about thai cuisine his previous job was in Beefeater. There are plenty of small excellent thai restaurants out there in Uk but there are also plenty of stinkers too. Nignoy

[chonabot]

Here in Oxfordshire there's a chain called Thai Orchid , the food is ok , if a bit bland, but we tend to have our food 'off the cuff' the local branch has a decent chef who can do a mean Gai Pad Grapow or a Nam Tok Moo with a decent Somtam for a fiver. What always amuses me is the Thai's idea that farang like the food mild , when most people who eat out in the UK are used to spicy Indian food.

I agree that the concept of starters / entrees etc does not suit the Thai Menu and it sometimes tends to lessen the overall effect.

[zoltannyc]

The best place for Thai food in New York City is Kittichai. It's run by Ian Chalermkittichai, who was chef at the Four Seasons before this.

For any Thai food newbies, read about eating Thai food at http://www.foodvirgin.com/columns/Thai.htm It's part of a great website that explains how to eat a lot of different cuisines to people who've never tried them before (or people who have, but have questions about the details). This particular article includes an interview with Ian.

Respectfully disagree, Kitticahi is a very good restaurant however it's not real thai restaurant but thai-asian fusion boutique restaurant .....with japanese disposable chopsticks ... when most thai food is eaten by fork and spoon...

if you want to eat real thai food in NYC you have to go to Woodside, Queens and visit Sripraphai it's full of thai people and according to my wife (she is thai) as good as it gets....

Reviews:

http://gonyc.about.com/cs/restaurants/gr/rr_sripraphai.htm

http://newyorkfood.blogspot.com/2005/09/sripraphai.html

http://www.gothamist.com/archives/2005/12/...e_of_srip_1.php

[sabaijai]

The best place for Thai food in New York City is Kittichai. It's run by Ian Chalermkittichai, who was chef at the Four Seasons before this.

For any Thai food newbies, read about eating Thai food at http://www.foodvirgin.com/columns/Thai.htm It's part of a great website that explains how to eat a lot of different cuisines to people who've never tried them before (or people who have, but have questions about the details). This particular article includes an interview with Ian.

Respectfully disagree, Kitticahi is a very good restaurant however it's not real thai restaurant but thai-asian fusion boutique restaurant .....with japanese disposable chopsticks ... when most thai food is eaten by fork and spoon...

if you want to eat real thai food in NYC you have to go to Woodside, Queens and visit Sripraphai it's full of thai people and according to my wife (she is thai) as good as it gets....

Reviews:

http://gonyc.about.com/cs/restaurants/gr/rr_sripraphai.htm

http://newyorkfood.blogspot.com/2005/09/sripraphai.html

http://www.gothamist.com/archives/2005/12/...e_of_srip_1.php

Again I think you have to distinguish between classic and innovative Thai cookery when critiquing a Thai restaurant overseas (or in Thailand for that matter). I don't think it's valid to compare Kittichai and Sripraphai as they have completely different objectives, as restaurants.

That said, I've never been to a Thai restaurant outside Thailand that could prepare classic Thai cuisine as well as it's prepared at the better spots here in the kingdom.

[meadish_sweetball]

Ever tried Hemlock on Pra Athit Road, sabaijai?

At least about 4 years ago, they had some nice dishes which they claimed were prepared according to Ayutthaya era recipes.

[sabaijai]

Ever tried Hemlock on Pra Athit Road, sabaijai?

At least about 4 years ago, they had some nice dishes which they claimed were prepared according to Ayutthaya era recipes.

I was a semi-regular patron at Hemlcok years ago--maybe 8-10 years back? I've not had more than a quick drink there in the last three years or so, and don't recall the Ayuthaya recipes but that sounds very interesting. I'll be in the 'hood again soon so will try to stop by and give the food a try.

[caledonia]

Well maybe it has been too long since I tasted an Authentic Thai having not been to LOS for a few years but there is a lovely wee resteraunt in Edinburgh called Mung Thai and they have a special section of the menu for those wanting truly 'authentic' Thai.

Now despite the warnings all over the page about the hotness and the chillis, I thought oh well I managed it on Samet I will surely be ok with it!! Yeah right!! Blew my mouth off, ended up picking at it and wolfing half my mates Masaman curry ....it was very authentic though!

[Minburi]

IN Calgary there are 3 excellent places called the Thai Boat,Rose Garden and The Thai place. Still working on good ones in vancouver

[Boo]

great place in London Earls Court called Addies. the only place we have found so far where hubby thinks is "real" thai food

[blue eyes]

The best place I have found to have REAL Thai food is at our local Wat on Sundays. Everyone brings food to feed the Monks and we all get to eat what is left. It always looks like a Thai buffet. Which on Sundays is alot. Any other day not many people come to feed the Monks so the pickens are slim. And the best part is it is free. Except for tam boon,which is important for your life anyway.

Edited June 19, 2006 by blue eyes

[sabaijai]

The best place I have found to have REAL Thai food is at our local Wat on Sundays. Everyone brings food to feed the Monks and we all get to eat what is left. It always looks like a Thai buffet. Which on Sundays is alot. Any other day not many people come to feed the Monks so the pickens are slim. And the best part is it is free. Except for tam boon,which is important for your life anyway.

In the San Francisco area, where there are hundreds of Thai restaurants, the most authentic Thai eating you'll find is at the Sunday market at Wat Thai in Berkeley. Or at least it used to be--I haven't been there in many years.

[Franca]

I've had great Thai food in Kuwait at a Blue Elephant there. Probably it varies from restaurant to restaurant. I've also had good Thai in other parts of Asia, as well as far flung places like San Diego.

Before you try Thai for the first time, read about what to order at http://www.foodvirgin.com. You can also find a Thai restaurant near you using their Restaurant Finder.

[drifterrafirma]

Some Thai friends of mine took me to a restaurant called Dara Thai in Flagstaff, AZ. It was farkin' delicious and they seemed very pleased with it, too, so I can only assume that it was authentic. Everyone that works there is Thai. Come to think of it, I never heard any of the employees speak english. I drove 9 people 80 miles in a vehicle with 2 seats to eat there, and it was definitely worth it.

[supielicious]

it s good you can eat thai food so u feel like home but i think it s not the same as in thailand . it s more good in thailand. i ate thai food in belgium , germany and norway

but i like in thailand more