Nana Police officers on the run after abducting Italian tourists and demanding Bt2m ransom

[hawker9000]

It seems that you didn't read my first post carefully? the big world outside of your front door is exactly the place where I lives and I do not beat the drums only on negativity, after reading your current post I am sure you don't know much about RTP except the "NEWS" and you are going to stick with it for your satisfaction.

OH, I get it. It's the "NEWS"! You question the veracity of NEWS about the RTP, such as THIS news. 'Never happend? Exaggerated? Inaccurate? What? Got some other examples of other "news stories", about the RTP, whose relevance or accuracy you reject? I'd honestly like to know under what, and whose, misinformation I'm laboring, since I really do NOT think I alone have the necessary personal experience to make a meaningful judgment.

[Badbanker]

Some people in the know and officially involved with Police matters in Bangkok see a totally different story reported in the press to what has often really happened.

That is not to say that this incident did not happen. It most certainly did and 5 of those responsible are in jail as we speak! Unfortunately the Upper Sukumvit area, that is the center of entertainment in Bangkok is rife with this sort of thing.

I think what skyaslimit is trying to say is, that 99% of commissioned officers in the RTP are just as horrified as we all are, that fellow police have done something of this nature and calibre.

Sadly I know this sort of thing does happen infrequently and unfortunately it is these sort of incidents and negativity against the RTP that are at times blown out of all proportion on this forum, as farangs bashing Thai Police is fun and gets views which this forum needs.

If you have a Police Corruption issue, the ombudsman and the RTP Counter Corruption Commission are very open and welcome your complaints.

You might also try and list your real documented complaints on https://th.bribespot.com/ which is in Thai and English and is growing.

I believe shortly this website will have to be addressed by the RTP.

[hawker9000]

99% honest? Transparency International gave Thai police a grade of 4 out of 5 in Dec 2007. 60 countries were surveyed. 4 out of 5, yet you say only 1% of police are corrupt? And that was in 2007. Surely you're not suggesting things have improved since then! 1%!!?? Are you serious? Do you really thing many are buying that?

[skyaslimit]

99% honest?  Transparency International gave Thai police a grade of 4 out of 5 in Dec 2007.  60 countries were surveyed.  4 out of 5, yet you say only 1% of police are corrupt? And that was in 2007.  Surely you're not suggesting things have improved since then!  1%!!??   Are you serious?  Do you really thing many are buying that?

Correction again. Please read the badbanker's statement one more time.

sent by skyaslimit using thaivisa forum mobile app.

[hawker9000]

99% honest? Transparency International gave Thai police a grade of 4 out of 5 in Dec 2007. 60 countries were surveyed. 4 out of 5, yet you say only 1% of police are corrupt? And that was in 2007. Surely you're not suggesting things have improved since then! 1%!!?? Are you serious? Do you really thing many are buying that?

Correction again. Please read the badbanker's statement one more time.

sent by skyaslimit using thaivisa forum mobile app.

OK. I guess I was a bit squeamish about him putting words in your mouth. But if you insist: 1%?! Are YOU serious??!!

[robblok]

99% honest? Transparency International gave Thai police a grade of 4 out of 5 in Dec 2007. 60 countries were surveyed. 4 out of 5, yet you say only 1% of police are corrupt? And that was in 2007. Surely you're not suggesting things have improved since then! 1%!!?? Are you serious? Do you really thing many are buying that?

The guy is crazy.. Thai police in general are corrupt might even be a 50/50 or so. Just look at the houses of police officers and their salaries. No need to say much more actually.

Does not mean they are all as bad as these guys, i think its more not arresting and keeping eyes closed for the right amount, I doubt few of they actively go out and kidnap people. Still bad of course because you never know if any investigation is done right and such and who knows if someone is just a fall guy because the police wanted it.

But as long as the government is corrupt they won't clean up the police.

[hawker9000]

99% honest? Transparency International gave Thai police a grade of 4 out of 5 in Dec 2007. 60 countries were surveyed. 4 out of 5, yet you say only 1% of police are corrupt? And that was in 2007. Surely you're not suggesting things have improved since then! 1%!!?? Are you serious? Do you really thing many are buying that?

The guy is crazy.. Thai police in general are corrupt might even be a 50/50 or so. Just look at the houses of police officers and their salaries. No need to say much more actually.

Does not mean they are all as bad as these guys, i think its more not arresting and keeping eyes closed for the right amount, I doubt few of they actively go out and kidnap people. Still bad of course because you never know if any investigation is done right and such and who knows if someone is just a fall guy because the police wanted it.

But as long as the government is corrupt they won't clean up the police.

No, even in the worst district of Mogadishu I doubt they could ALL be THAT bad. So where does that leave us? What's the bell curve look like? A few VERY bad, like these in the story. A lot of, well, 4 out of 5 on a 5-point scale... And (maybe) a few good guys. I don't know who to feel more sorry for. Those few poor good guys. Or us poor foreigners.

If this incident goes lightly punished, or unpunished, we'll be seeing more of the same. A green light for those with larceny on their minds. I think I'd have to be pretty far gone to arrive at the point where I'd consider asking a Thai policeman for help. And my expectations would not be very high.

[skyaslimit]

 

99% honest?  Transparency International gave Thai police a grade of 4 out of 5 in Dec 2007.  60 countries were surveyed.  4 out of 5, yet you say only 1% of police are corrupt? And that was in 2007.  Surely you're not suggesting things have improved since then!  1%!!??   Are you serious?  Do you really thing many are buying that?

Correction again. Please read the badbanker's statement one more time.

sent by skyaslimit using thaivisa forum mobile app.

 

 

OK.  I guess I was a bit squeamish about him putting words in your mouth.  But if you insist:   1%?! Are YOU serious??!!

Badbanker says 99% of the commissioned police officers are as horrified as we are.......

But it doesn't matter... you can keep HAWKING

sent by skyaslimit using thaivisa forum mobile app.

[Badbanker]

Yes we see a conspicuous few officers who are obviously corrupt and they stand out, but there are also a large number of very straight officers who are fortunately the silent hard working majority.

If this was not the case, Thailand would have total anarchy, not have courts and laws and police to enforce them, and the jails would not be full of criminals like they are!

The system is far from perfect, but a hugely improved and radically different from what it was 30 years ago when I first arrived.

I also feel a number of radical changes are coming on the RTP but it will happen in a phased way and you may not aware of it!

In the past 1 month every Police station now has an online criminal case and record system being rolled out that will allow EVERY case recorded to accessed by the top echelons of the Government. Once a case is recorded in this system there is no way for it be cancelled.

Very soon there will be no more funny grubby police report books being filled out and "lost"!

[robblok]

Yes we see a conspicuous few officers who are obviously corrupt and they stand out, but there are also a large number of very straight officers who are fortunately the silent hard working majority.

If this was not the case, Thailand would have total anarchy, not have courts and laws and police to enforce them, and the jails would not be full of criminals like they are!

The system is far from perfect, but a hugely improved and radically different from what it was 30 years ago when I first arrived.

I also feel a number of radical changes are coming on the RTP but it will happen in a phased way and you may not aware of it!

In the past 1 month every Police station now has an online criminal case and record system being rolled out that will allow EVERY case recorded to accessed by the top echelons of the Government. Once a case is recorded in this system there is no way for it be cancelled.

Very soon there will be no more funny grubby police report books being filled out and "lost"!

That is what you say... i asked around and almost nobody trusts the police.

I think like i said this is a case where they are actively doing stuff I think most corruption is passive.. like not acting to stuff or accepting pay to let it go away. Its hard to see that kind of corruption and it would not lead to anarchy as its all about the highest bidder.

I would really like to know how many police are corrupt actively like those.. i doubt many but still to have a MAJOR doing stuff like this says it all. But passively corrupt I would not be surprised if it would total to 50% corrupt. This would of course undermine the whole system and explain why there is so much violence and crime here.

[hawker9000]

99% honest? Transparency International gave Thai police a grade of 4 out of 5 in Dec 2007. 60 countries were surveyed. 4 out of 5, yet you say only 1% of police are corrupt? And that was in 2007. Surely you're not suggesting things have improved since then! 1%!!?? Are you serious? Do you really thing many are buying that?

Correction again. Please read the badbanker's statement one more time.

sent by skyaslimit using thaivisa forum mobile app.

OK. I guess I was a bit squeamish about him putting words in your mouth. But if you insist: 1%?! Are YOU serious??!!

Badbanker says 99% of the commissioned police officers are as horrified as we are.......

But it doesn't matter... you can keep HAWKING

sent by skyaslimit using thaivisa forum mobile app.

And I think that's laughable. Honest?! LOL 99% who're horrified yes - I'm SURE that's true.

...that these guys got outsmarted - by a FOREIGNER - and caught! Horrified that this story is being repeated far & wide. Horrified that their own little rice bowls may now be in jeopardy. Horrified that some populist politician may be able to exploit this debacle by throwing THEM under the bus. Oh, yes - a 99% horror factor sounds just about right. But 99% honest? I can see why even you're laughing. It is pretty funny.

[Bpuumike]

The whole police force needs disbanding immediately. Not fit for purpose. The country will function just as well/or badly without them although I will concede there may be a shortage in meth for a while until market forces take over.

Didn't Hong Kong do something similar to get rid of an organized crime syndicate masquerading as a national police force?

Back then the Hong Kong police were described as "the finest police force money can buy".

RTP not necessarily the finest.

[oldthaihand99]

Time to move to a safe place, like Japan. Nothing could go wrong there. Plus it has everything LOS has & more.

Once this story gets known worldwide, it will be the end of tourism to Thailand. Expats will depart by the thousands.

These Italians would have been targeted even if they looked like poor young backpackers & used an indoor bank's ATM during banking hours with security guards.

"Police corruption is a significant widespread problem in several countries, such as Brazil,[1] Indonesia,[2] India,[3] Mexico[4] Russia[4] and Ukraine.[4]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_corruption

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/dec/01/corruption-index-2011-transparency-international

[jackspratt]

.

...that these guys got outsmarted - by a FOREIGNER - and caught! Horrified that this story is being repeated far & wide. Horrified that their own little rice bowls may now be in jeopardy. Horrified that some populist politician may be able to exploit this debacle by throwing THEM under the bus. Oh, yes - a 99% horror factor sounds just about right. But 99% honest? I can see why even you're laughing. It is pretty funny.

I am having a slow day - can you help me by pointing out where anyone , besides your good self, has used the term "99% honest"?

[EyesWideOpen]

I am sure that the 99% of the Thai police who a poster said would be horrified at this story, would be in fact

horrified at the stupidity of the police involved who got caught in this scam. Regarding the percent of Thai

police who are corrupt , no need to spend any time figuring that out. All police positions are bought, so figure

out the consequences of that. The Thai police are a true blight upon Thailand, and are truly hated by

ordinary Thai people. If Thailand ever wants to get serious about reducing crime in this country, just get

rid of all the police.

Sadly no change will result from this story. The two ranking police on the run will never be caught, the same

as the couple who tortured the little Karen girl. The lower ranking police men who got caught will receive some

sort of suspended sentence and be put into an inactive post. The Italians who were kidnapped may or may

not receive some sort of compensation to make them quiet. And then this whole story will do the classic

Thai fade away, exactly the same as the woman who was kidnapped at the airport after supposedly shop

lifting. She also paid a ransom. Lots of noise was made at the time, and then fade away........

The only way this terrible system will change is when the Thai people have had enough, and rise up.

This is unlikely to happen, as the Thai people know far better than the farangs , that the police would have

no problem in having somebody killed. Thus the average Thai person is truly afraid of the police.....

[bigbamboo]

Some people in the know and officially involved with Police matters in Bangkok see a totally different story reported in the press to what has often really happened.

That is not to say that this incident did not happen. It most certainly did and 5 of those responsible are in jail as we speak! Unfortunately the Upper Sukumvit area, that is the center of entertainment in Bangkok is rife with this sort of thing.

I think what skyaslimit is trying to say is, that 99% of commissioned officers in the RTP are just as horrified as we all are, that fellow police have done something of this nature and calibre.

Sadly I know this sort of thing does happen infrequently and unfortunately it is these sort of incidents and negativity against the RTP that are at times blown out of all proportion on this forum, as farangs bashing Thai Police is fun and gets views which this forum needs.

If you have a Police Corruption issue, the ombudsman and the RTP Counter Corruption Commission are very open and welcome your complaints.

You might also try and list your real documented complaints on https://th.bribespot.com/ which is in Thai and English and is growing.

I believe shortly this website will have to be addressed by the RTP.

I think those officers probably were horrified to see their colleagues caught doing this.

As for levels of police corruption of course no one can ever know for sure but the RTP regularly comes out on top of surveys amongst Thais as being perceived to be the most corrupt institution in Thailand.... and they're up against some pretty stiff competition!

Edited August 25, 2013 by bigbamboo

[H1w4yR1da]

I am having a slow day - can you help me by pointing out where anyone , besides your good self, has used the term "99% honest"?

Not the exact term but it's implied here

I think what skyaslimit is trying to say is, that 99% of commissioned officers in the RTP are just as horrified as we all are, that fellow police have done something of this nature and calibre.

[atyclb]

Oh yes. Just another little step down the slide to anarchy.

Coppers kidnapping tourists.

I await the " it happens everywhere". Bogota maybe. Kabul?

In reality I know of cases of drivers getting into trouble for attempting to bribe Bogota police for traffic infractions. Yeah, the Bogota Colombia police are a "cut above" Thai police as hard as it may be to believe.

[apetley]

If I were the Italians I'd be selling the movie rights as soon as I could....would make a good thriller:-)

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[MrWorldwide]

Is kidnapping a capital offense in Thailand ? I really hope it is, and that this doesnt get brushed under the carpet. Still, I dont recall any more news on the rich kid who ran over that cop ....

[jackspratt]

I am having a slow day - can you help me by pointing out where anyone , besides your good self, has used the term "99% honest"?

Not the exact term but it's implied here

I think what skyaslimit is trying to say is, that 99% of commissioned officers in the RTP are just as horrified as we all are, that fellow police have done something of this nature and calibre.

No it isn't.

What badbanker (who is clearly literate, and not unintelligent) said is quite clear - without any need to resort to implication.

Despite a couple of taps on the shoulder, hawker9000 has chosen to assume the same implication as you - or, alternatively, he just has very poor reading comprehension "skills".

[jackspratt]

Is kidnapping a capital offense in Thailand ? I really hope it is, and that this doesnt get brushed under the carpet. Still, I dont recall any more news on the rich kid who ran over that cop ....

You need to expand your reading:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/662790-red-bull-heir-to-be-indicted-monday-thai-prosector-says/

[H1w4yR1da]

I am having a slow day - can you help me by pointing out where anyone , besides your good self, has used the term "99% honest"?

Not the exact term but it's implied here

I think what skyaslimit is trying to say is, that 99% of commissioned officers in the RTP are just as horrified as we all are, that fellow police have done something of this nature and calibre.

No it isn't.

What badbanker (who is clearly literate, and not unintelligent) said is quite clear - without any need to resort to implication.

Despite a couple of taps on the shoulder, hawker9000 has chosen to assume the same implication as you - or, alternatively, he just has very poor reading comprehension "skills".

To say "99% of commissioned officers in the RTP are just as horrified as we all are" does imply that they are at least, less corrupt than the suspects in this case. Maybe they just stick to a lower level of corruption such as extorting motorists. But whatever, the 99% claim is blatantly ridiculous even to the most Thaier-than-Thai.

[bander]

This sounds familiar.

My wife mentioned that there is a new kind of ATM scam in Thailand now. The scammers leave an ATM card with the PIN written on the back on the ground at the ATM. If someone picks it up and puts it into the machine, the cops swoop down and 'arrest' and extort this person.

When it comes to Thai police nothing surprise me anymore, best scam artists in the world with absolutely no brain, how is it possible?

[seancbk]

The whole police force needs disbanding immediately. Not fit for purpose. The country will function just as well/or badly without them although I will concede there may be a shortage in meth for a while until market forces take over.

Didn't Hong Kong do something similar to get rid of an organized crime syndicate masquerading as a national police force?

Yes in 1974 Hong Kong set up the ICAC (Independent Commission Against Corruption)

http://www.icac.org.hk/en/about_icac/bh/

[hawker9000]

.

...that these guys got outsmarted - by a FOREIGNER - and caught! Horrified that this story is being repeated far & wide. Horrified that their own little rice bowls may now be in jeopardy. Horrified that some populist politician may be able to exploit this debacle by throwing THEM under the bus. Oh, yes - a 99% horror factor sounds just about right. But 99% honest? I can see why even you're laughing. It is pretty funny.

I am having a slow day - can you help me by pointing out where anyone , besides your good self, has used the term "99% honest"?

Sure. See #182 and then #188. Hope things pick up for you.

[bigginhill]

Just read the Italian paper "Il sole 24ore". There were 2 people kidnapped, 2 engineers, just arrived in Bkk, De Vito, plus 61 yr old Antonio de Muro, they were ordered to make several transfer using from their banks using Western Union, using the hotel phone, ( 20 x 1000 euro) one of these calls De Vito calls his brother who is a Carabiniere, military police, who call the embassy. The embassy call the hotel, but the Italians refuse to talk to the person calling, at that point the thai police are called and go to the embassy. The kidnappers run, but De Vito is a black belt, catches one. The usbek? Seems his part was to act as a translator between the "police" kidnappers and the victims. SO I,d say it was the usbeks fault, he should have clued up on his Italian before pulling this one.

Joking apart.

As the case of the girls from Ohio imprisoned for 10yrs by that beast, I ask for one that gets caught....how many have never been. Who of you thinks this was their first time at this? ( the other matter mentioned doesn,t bear thinking about...Austria, Belgium hope everyone remembers)

[hawker9000]

... I ask for one that gets caught....how many have never been. Who of you thinks this was their first time at this?...

Good point. How many incidents involving police & foreigners actually DO go unreported? I'm sure most of us can think of reasons why... And I'm sure the police are quite aware of that.

[apalink_thailand]

This may be the straw that broke the camels back, when word gets out that the police are kidnapping tourists, the fun is over.

Doubt it. This will just get swept under the rug with the rest of the scams. News of this nature rarely makes the press in western countries. At least not in a way that will affect tourism. If it did, Phuket would be long dead.

[apalink_thailand]

Is kidnapping a capital offense in Thailand ? I really hope it is, and that this doesnt get brushed under the carpet. Still, I dont recall any more news on the rich kid who ran over that cop ....

You need to expand your reading:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/662790-red-bull-heir-to-be-indicted-monday-thai-prosector-says/

He will not see one minute in jail. Don't worry.