US Army's Robert Bales gets life, no parole for Afghanistan killings

[webfact]

Army's Robert Bales gets life, no parole for Afghan rampage -- but was it justice?
By Greg Botelho, CNN

(CNN) -- On Friday, a military jury decided U.S. Army Staff Sgt. Robert Bales will get life in prison without parole for killing 16 Afghan villagers.

Yet victims left behind -- some bearing physical scars, others with emotional ones from seeing their kin indiscriminately, brutally gunned down -- say that, with that sentence, they don't feel they got justice.

Friday's decision was not entirely unexpected. In June Bales' pleaded guilty to more than 30 criminal charges, including 16 premeditated murder counts, spared himself from the prospect of a death sentence. He also pleaded guilty to charges related to illicit steroid and alcohol use.

But it still remained up to a jury of four officers and two enlisted personnel to decide whether Bales should be eligible for parole.

Full story: http://edition.cnn.com/2013/08/23/justice/robert-bales-afghan-killings/index.html

-- CNN 2013-08-24

[Redhawk]

Being sentenced to life imprisonment and still a chance for parole, what a strange law and application of it?

[Scott]

I believe that is Life with NO parole, unless I am missing something.

[theblether]

The Afghan villagers belief in justice will be directly related to the amount of compensation they receive.

If they were offered the choice between even a mere $50,000 compo or the death sentence for the guy, they would be on their knees begging for the guy to be saved.

I'm not being glib, that's human nature.

It's also why we see families here in Thailand accepting blood money too. The rich Ferrari Red Bull guy appealed directly to the Thai families greed.

He was unlucky that he killed a policeman, if it had been anyone else the case would have been finished long ago, and in his favour. I am convinced that the police are continuing with this case as it's a chance to show the rich that they can be jailed too. Not because of any noble legal principle, it's so they can charge them the right fee accordingly in future to make cases go away.

The question can be asked of the Afghan's, ,and many others......."How much will it cost me to buy your principles?".

Edited August 24, 2013 by theblether

[Card]

I believe that is Life with NO parole, unless I am missing something.

Correct. But the jury was left to decide parole or not.

And how well does this relate to Nidal Hasan's sentence, where the jury is now deciding, not on whether he could get parole or not, but whether he gets the death sentence. And Hasan didn't murder women and kids. Nice one for equality, America.

[F4UCorsair]

Friday's decision was not entirely unexpected. In June Bales' pleaded guilty to more than 30 criminal charges, including 16 premeditated murder counts, spared himself from the prospect of a death sentence. He also pleaded guilty to charges related to illicit steroid and alcohol use.

But it still remained up to a jury of four officers and two enlisted personnel to decide whether Bales should be eligible for parole.

I read that as 'remainED' (not 'remains'), in spite of his guilty plea, but the panel decidED against parole. Of course I may be wrong.

Edited August 24, 2013 by F4UCorsair

[F4UCorsair]

I believe that is Life with NO parole, unless I am missing something.

Correct. But the jury was left to decide parole or not.

And how well does this relate to Nidal Hasan's sentence, where the jury is now deciding, not on whether he could get parole or not, but whether he gets the death sentence. And Hasan didn't murder women and kids. Nice one for equality, America.

In my view Hasan's actions were worse (although no doubt many will disagree), therefore deserves the death sentence.

[evadgib]

The death penalty has to be better than life without parole!

I suspect any appeal will focus on the psychological aspects of his military career to see what may have triggered this behavior, or can be blamed.

Edited August 24, 2013 by evadgib

[Ulysses G.]

And how well does this relate to Nidal Hasan's sentence

IMO, both of them deserve the death penalty, but Bales was smart enough to cop a plea.

Edited August 24, 2013 by Ulysses G.

[Card]

I believe that is Life with NO parole, unless I am missing something.

Correct. But the jury was left to decide parole or not.

And how well does this relate to Nidal Hasan's sentence, where the jury is now deciding, not on whether he could get parole or not, but whether he gets the death sentence. And Hasan didn't murder women and kids. Nice one for equality, America.

In my view Hasan's actions were worse (although no doubt many will disagree), therefore deserves the death sentence.

Why worse? Because American soldiers were murdered instead of Afghan civilians?

Edited August 24, 2013 by Card

[simple1]

The Afghan villagers belief in justice will be directly related to the amount of compensation they receive.

If they were offered the choice between even a mere $50,000 compo or the death sentence for the guy, they would be on their knees begging for the guy to be saved.

As the average annual Afghan wage is below US$1k would not be at all surprised if they accepted such compensation, would be equivalent to a lifetimes earning on current income levels. However, the United States usually pays up to $2,500 for civilians killed in lawful operations such as air strikes. Would guess they received more in the case of wilful murder by Bales

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-57397529-503543/calculating-the-price-of-a-civilian-life-in-afghanistan/

Some good news, some villagers turning against the Taliban

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/21/world/asia/afghan-villages-rise-up-against-taliban.html?ref=robertbales&_r=0

[chuckd]

I believe that is Life with NO parole, unless I am missing something.

Correct. But the jury was left to decide parole or not.

And how well does this relate to Nidal Hasan's sentence, where the jury is now deciding, not on whether he could get parole or not, but whether he gets the death sentence. And Hasan didn't murder women and kids. Nice one for equality, America.

Bales pleaded guilty, which removed the death penalty from consideration. He will serve the remainder of his life in prison.

Hassan wanted a trial so he would be eligible for the death penalty in the hopes he would become a martyr. I personally hope he doesn't get the death penalty and has to serve the remaining years of his life at Ft. Leavenworth without the possibility of parole.

If you are going to blame anything, blame Hassan's religion and his desire for martydom..

Under entirely different circumstances the trials might have been held in Norway with both of the convicted killers getting no more than 21 years, where one killer who murdered three times as many as Hassan and Bales combined is currently serving his sentence.

Edited August 24, 2013 by chuckd

[Card]

And how well does this relate to Nidal Hasan's sentence

IMO, both of them deserve the death penalty, but Bales was smart enough to cop a plea.

Hasan has also admitted guilt. Neither should get the death sentence - they should both get life without parole in the same prison.

[F4UCorsair]

The death penalty has to be better than life without parole!

I suspect any appeal will focus on the psychological aspects of his military career to see what may have triggered this behavior, or can be blamed.

I think I read that he was a psychologist......................that partly explains it!!

It's reported that he pleaded guilty, and called no witnesses, so perhaps wants to be killed. What a shame he wasn't indulged on the day, before he killed any of those around him.

I believe the highest suicide rates in Australia, by profession, are psychiatrists, psychologists, dentists and vets, but can't find anything to support it, in keeping with policy to play down suicide.

Edited August 24, 2013 by F4UCorsair

[Card]

If you are going to blame anything, blame Hassan's religion and his desire for martydom..

And what about Bale's Christian beliefs?

[Ulysses G.]

And how well does this relate to Nidal Hasan's sentence

IMO, both of them deserve the death penalty, but Bales was smart enough to cop a plea.

Hasan has also admitted guilt. Neither should get the death sentence - they should both get life without parole in the same prison.

That would be fine with me. It would prevent Hasan from any "guarantee" of martyrdom and he would have to live out the rest of his life in very unpleasant conditions.

Edited August 24, 2013 by Ulysses G.

[Card]

And how well does this relate to Nidal Hasan's sentence

IMO, both of them deserve the death penalty, but Bales was smart enough to cop a plea.

Hasan has also admitted guilt. Neither should get the death sentence - they should both get life without parole in the same prison.

That would be fine with me. It would prevent Hasan from any "guarantee" of martyrdom and he would have to live out the rest of his life in very unpleasant conditions.

Well at least things might level out for both.

[Ulysses G.]

And what about Bale's Christian beliefs?

They had nothing to do with his crime. He would have never done it otherwise. Hasan wanted to be a martyr to his religion and felt that killing "infidels" would accomplish that.

[Card]

And what about Bale's Christian beliefs?

They had nothing to do with his crime. He would have never done it otherwise. Hasan wanted to be a martyr to his religion and felt that killing "infidels" would accomplish that.

Religion here is not on trial. You imply that because someone was motivated by his (alien to you) religion that it means the sentence should be more harsh thhan someone motivated by simple hatred. I don't understand what that's about.

[Scott]

The last post is correct: "Religion is not on trial here".

Some off-topic posts have been deleted. Please stay on topic and avoid inflammatory comments.

[chuckd]

If you are going to blame anything, blame Hassan's religion and his desire for martydom..

So what you are saying is that it wasn't just Hasan's fault and that religious bigotry also has a role to play in his sentencing?

Do you have trouble comprehending simple sentences?

Hassan's 'DESIRE FOR MARTYDOM' is what was driving his wish for a death sentence.

There is no such requirement of martyrdom for a Christian to enter an afterlife.

[Scott]

....And with that post we will end this discussion of religion. Further off-topic posts will be deleted.

[simple1]

The death penalty has to be better than life without parole!

I suspect any appeal will focus on the psychological aspects of his military career to see what may have triggered this behavior, or can be blamed.

I think I read that he was a psychologist......................that partly explains it!!

It's reported that he pleaded guilty, and called no witnesses, so perhaps wants to be killed. What a shame he wasn't indulged on the day, before he killed any of those around him.

I believe the highest suicide rates in Australia, by profession, are psychiatrists, psychologists, dentists and vets, but can't find anything to support it, in keeping with policy to play down suicide.

Off topic, but it is not true suicide is played down in Australia, it is a major concern. That are a number of State, Federal and non government organisations that undertake research into & programs that talk to suicide prevention, probably the most well know is Beyond Blue

EDIT: Sorry Scott just noticed your post above.

Edited August 24, 2013 by simple1

[F4UCorsair]

simple 1, rather than quote your entire post, I will just respond.

Perhaps 'played down' was a poor choice of words. Suicides are given little/no publicity thereby removing much of the risk of 'copy cat' suicides, a concept I just don't understand, but it exists.

I agree that suicide is taken very seriously, and there are a number of organizations working with governments to combat the problem

[chuckd]

It is in the First Amendment of the US Constitution, which says in part...

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof:"

There is NO national religion in the US, nor is separation of state and church mentioned anywhere in the Constitution.

[rgs2001uk]

And how well does this relate to Nidal Hasan's sentence

IMO, both of them deserve the death penalty, but Bales was smart enough to cop a plea.

Hasan has also admitted guilt. Neither should get the death sentence - they should both get life without parole in the same prison.

^^^^, I would add a rider to the above, they should both be made to share the same cell.

[Credo]

Sharing a cell might be an OK punishment, but Manning should not be required to share his make-up with Hasan.

[Card]

The Afghan villagers belief in justice will be directly related to the amount of compensation they receive.

If they were offered the choice between even a mere $50,000 compo or the death sentence for the guy, they would be on their knees begging for the guy to be saved.

I'm not being glib, that's human nature.

It's also why we see families here in Thailand accepting blood money too. The rich Ferrari Red Bull guy appealed directly to the Thai families greed.

He was unlucky that he killed a policeman, if it had been anyone else the case would have been finished long ago, and in his favour. I am convinced that the police are continuing with this case as it's a chance to show the rich that they can be jailed too. Not because of any noble legal principle, it's so they can charge them the right fee accordingly in future to make cases go away.

The question can be asked of the Afghan's, ,and many others......."How much will it cost me to buy your principles?".

When the main breadwinner is murdered then there is little else these people can do - it's not about buying principles.That's an American concept. If a bribe really will be involved then ask yourself, who is doing the bribing to make it appear as though justice is being done?

Edited August 24, 2013 by Card

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed. This will be the last public warning about a discussion of religion.

The paying of blood money for a death in some countries is the sanctioned, legal and acceptable manner of dealing with the situation. It is not considered bribery.

[simple1]

An off-topic post has been removed. This will be the last public warning about a discussion of religion.

The paying of blood money for a death in some countries is the sanctioned, legal and acceptable manner of dealing with the situation. It is not considered bribery.

Forgot about that part of the culture. Confirmed US did pay blood money to the victims families - US$50k for the families for each victim & US$11k for each of the wounded.

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-03-25/world/35447229_1_nato-afghan-afghan-officials-arghandab