'No doubt' Syria used chemical arms, says US Vice-President Joe Biden

[hawker9000]

What's going in in Syria, regardless of this latest being factually correct, propoganda, or rebel staged. This past yr has been genocide. Sadly not only spot in world it is happening and we only have to look to the n or s of this country's borders to see suffering. While on a smaller scale. All around us.

Wars suck. Also, so many geo-political unknown agendas in this case its hard to tell up from down. Other than the fact civilians. Women and children are being killed every day.

Yea, the US has its handsin conflicts that I'm not clear on. Yes we always seem to. Having stated that, I'm still dam_n proud to be an American. No, not crazy about the American bashing but, I got broad shoulders. I can take it. Just last week an older gentleman came up to my wife and I at lunch. He asked if I was American, he then aske. Can he tell me a story and bought me a beer. He then went on to tell me that at the age of 5-7 he and his family were held in a concentration camp for three yrs, people starving, dieing every day. He then started crying and told of the 500 American tanks that took on 1,000 German tanks in a battle that lasted for days. He laughed when he told me how Americans would jump up and toss grenades into the German tanks, throw out the bodies and then use the tank against the enemy risking fire from their own troops until they started shooting the enemy tanks. His tears were flowing as he told of how his camp was freed and given first decent food in yrs. Yea, made me feel good.

There are also those that say the US has not won a war since. Will not even take sides on this as the definition of winning is a very grey line.

All I can add is this. Just this morning my neighbor cameover and asked, when is the US going to do something about Syria. Hell of a two sided coin I said. We are dammed if we do and dammed if we do not.

I think Obama is doing a good job of staying clear of wars. Libya is great example. He demanded UN approval and we then provided help without putting boots on the ground. Great job by all countries involved.

I can only speculate that the devil is in the unknown details in this ever since China and Russia both backed off in their stance on Syria. If not, why the UN is not taking action is beyond me. Notice I said the UN, not the US. Obama got it right in Libya. Doing the same, waiting for UN approval on Syria.

He shouldn't have drawn his "red line" then. And you really think Russia isn't going to veto UN action in Syria? Obama and his mouth have maneuvered him into a corner, and he pretty much has to act. He can try the missile thing only, but I think we're going to find it either escalates from there, or fails to stop the atrocities against the civilian population.

[lucifer666]

Sorry, the forum would not let me edit my post:-

The British are already involved, i'm semi retired (And English) but i received a standby message yesterday

[muratremix]

You can see tons of sentences start with "No Doubt" in Holy book of Quran. Its interesting use of disclose by USA before invading Syria.

[Publicus]

Sorry, the forum would not let me edit my post:-

The British are already involved, i'm semi retired (And English) but i received a standby message yesterday

What, to go diving for Syrian oil?

[jmccarty]

Sorry, the forum would not let me edit my post:-

The British are already involved, i'm semi retired (And English) but i received a standby message yesterday

What, to go diving for Syrian oil?

Probably to repair the broken oil fields!

[binnsy1]

YES something has to be done but its about 2 years to late,leave em to it and let the Russians and Chinese pick up the repair bill after all if these two had agreed then SYRIA would not be a war zone as it has been for years.

[GeorgeO]

They also better had a strategy, in particular an exit strategy, this time round.

Agreed.

Obama's a prudent commander in chief of the military who is much more careful and considerate of U.S. military personnel and assets than Bush or Bush ever were, Reagan too.

The U.S. barely set foot on the ground in Libya and then was gone like the wind. I think that was a good exit strategy and the model to follow, although no U.S. ground forces will be used in Syria.

The U.S. population doesn't want another war and Obama knows that. Obama campaigned in 2008 to get out of Iraq etc. The U.S. isn't going to be participating in this for very long, that's for sure.

V.P Biden is no warhawk either.

And if Syria or Iran starts pounding away at Israel, what then for the USA?

More fool both countries if they were to choose to do so. Israel has more than enough warfare assets to care of itself, and they have very limited tolerance of any attack on their 'sovereignty'.

[mania]

they have very limited tolerance of any attack on their 'sovereignty'.

Probably most countries feel the same.

But it seems

"All animals countries are equal, but some animals countries are more equal than others"

But I think Midas was asking not whether it is a foolish act because as you say Israel is capable

& undeclared yet known to be nuclear armed but, is this initial unprovoked attack on Syria

worth the possible multiple scenarios that could follow?

Edited August 29, 2013 by mania

[Publicus]

Beijing is causing its usual trouble concerning another dictator in the Middle East, continuing to support Assad along with Russia and Iran.

The CCP-PRC, Russia and Iran recently completed joint military exercises in the Middle East. However, given that the CCP-PRC is unable to project power, Beijing's participation was extremely limited. Still, Beijing's token participation in the joint military exercises with Russia and Iran clearly indicate who is aligned with whom in all of this chaos.

Chinese Regime Tells US Not to Think About Syria Strike

After President Obama said he was considering limited airborne strikes on the military assets of the Syrian regime, which was recently accused of using chemical weapons against civilians, Chinese state-run media were quick to leap in with a stern caution: Not so fast.

“In the past few years China has always stood on the side of supporting dictatorships in the Middle East region,” said Hu Ping, the editor of Chinese reform magazine Beijing Spring, in a telephone interview. “So they’re against any interference,” he said.

Hu added: “They have no other convenient reason for opposing intervention, so they write an article based on this question of chemical weapons.”

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/268498-chinese-regime-tells-us-not-to-think-about-syria-strike/

Retired Major General Luo Yuan, one of China's most outspoken military figures, told the official People's Daily last year that with so much oil at stake we cannot think that the issues of Syria and Iran have nothing to do with us.

Even if the government were to go against its principle of not interfering in the affairs of other countries, the People's Liberation Army (PLA) is still far from capable of all but the most token presence in lands far from home.

In terms of the PLA becoming actively involved, doing things the United States and its allies plan to do in the next few days, it does not at the moment have the wherewithal to do that, said Ross Babbage, a military analyst in Canberra and a former senior Australian defense official.

Analysis: China has much at risk but no reach in Middle East

- The worsening Syria conflict has exposed an uncomfortable truth behind China's cherished policy of non-interference: Beijing cannot do much to influence events even if it wanted to.

With weak and untested military forces unable to project power in the Middle East, China can only play a low-key role in a region that is crucial for its energy security.

As the United States and its allies gear up for a probable military strike on Syria, raising fears of a regional conflagration, China remains firmly on the sidelines, despite it having much more at stake than some other big powers.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/28/us-syria-crisis-china-analysis-idUSBRE97R08V20130828

[Chicog]

^ Just don't see why that's relevant. Iran and Qatar are probably doing the same in Pars/North Dome.

[Scott]

A number of off-topic posts have been deleted. Please stick to the topic.

[Commander Tamson]

Do any of you actually step back and read this stuff to see how it sounds? Great entertainment value, but wow!!!!!!

And what exactly does it sound like to you?

[F430murci]

Do any of you actually step back and read this stuff to see how it sounds? Great entertainment value, but wow!!!!!!

And what exactly does it sound like to you?

Bunch of nutters! A lit of consparicist, paranoid, angry little men.

[F430murci]

Obama: "I have not made a decision" on Syria military strike.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/29/world/middleeast/putin-on-syria.html?_r=0

Haha, then stop drawing lines, saying you are going to do something and acting all tough. Bama is rapidly becoming about as credible and honorable as North Korea's dear leader. Any wonder why Putin views him as a joke!

[Jingthing]

Hopefully, Putin will not not be laughing so much at the Obama jokes soon.

[Commander Tamson]

Do any of you actually step back and read this stuff to see how it sounds? Great entertainment value, but wow!!!!!!

And what exactly does it sound like to you?

Bunch of nutters! A lit of consparicist, paranoid, angry little men.

Ah! Thanks. Now I understand! Was however, hoping for something showing a wee bit more insight.

[F430murci]

Do any of you actually step back and read this stuff to see how it sounds? Great entertainment value, but wow!!!!!!

And what exactly does it sound like to you?

Bunch of nutters! A lit of consparicist, paranoid, angry little men.

Ah! Thanks. Now I understand! Was however, hoping for something showing a wee bit more insight.

On here?

[Soutpeel]

in an attempt to lighten the mood a little...

I am waiting in great anticipation for a TAT press release which states the impending attack on Syria will not impact tourist numbers visting Thailand from the Middle East...

[lomatopo]

What is the plan post Assad? In reading this http://world.time.com/2013/03/05/syrias-many-militias-inside-the-chaos-of-the-anti-assad-rebellion/ , if it is factual, dismantling Assad's government and leaving armed civilians with no formal military or beuracratic background means as a few have said, sharia law as the only organized system for the people to follow.

Well the first thing we would do is appoint Paul Bremmer as Administrator of the Coalition Provisional Authority of Iraq Syria , and then let him disband the military. Then maybe begin a frantic search for chemical weapons?

We're Americans, we don't need a plan (for anything after we invade/destabilize/bomb). Shoot first, ask questions later.

Edited August 29, 2013 by lomatopo

[YesWeCan]

The pictures of dead babies and children made me angry. Assad is aware of his fate while looking at the end of Saddam and Gaddafi, so he will fight till the very end. Shame on Putin for backing him up (just verbally ?).

[Loptr]

Indeed.

20 Reasons Why Tomahawk Missiles Should Put Assad In A State Of Panic

Having seen 30 years of continuous service, Tomahawk missiles are one of the most reliable weapons on the battlefield.

The USS Barry and three other warships promptly took up positions off the coast of Syria, poised to unleash a storm of Tactical Tomahawk missiles.

While Syrian and Iranian officials have said they will defend themselves against any Western strike, their best defense seems to be appealing to the U.N. for time.

Nevertheless, it seems their time is quickly running out.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/tomahawks-assad-syria-strikes-2013-8?op=1#ixzz2dJaTVZhq

Bashar Al Assad's Brother May Have Ordered Last Week's Chemical Weapons Attack

The reported chemical weapons attack in Syria last week that killed more than 1,000 people and sent the Western world baring down on the conflict may have been ordered by the little brother to Syrian dictator Bashar al Assad, according to a new report from Bloomberg.

Bloomberg cites an unnamed UN official who monitors armed conflicts in the region. The official said that the attack appears to have been a brash act by Maher rather than a strategic decision by the Bashar.

From Bloomberg:

The use of chemical weapons may have been a brash action by Maher al-Assad rather than a strategic decision by the president, according to the UN official, who asked not to be named.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/maher-al-assad-ordered-weapons-attack-2013-8#ixzz2dJbZN1f1

I'll see your 20 reasons and raise you 22 reasons why the US should not attack Syria.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-08-28/22-reasons-why-starting-world-war-3-middle-east-really-bad-idea

#1 The American people are overwhelmingly against going to war with Syria...

#2 At this point, a war in Syria is even more unpopular with the American people than Congress is.

Americans strongly oppose U.S. intervention in Syria's civil war and believe Washington should stay out of the conflict even if reports that Syria's government used deadly chemicals to attack civilians are confirmed, a Reuters/Ipsos poll says.

About 60 percent of Americans surveyed said the United States should not intervene in Syria's civil war, while just 9 percent thought President Barack Obama should act.

#3 The Obama administration has not gotten approval to go to war with Syria from Congress as the U.S. Constitution requires.

#4 The United States does not have the approval of the United Nations to attack Syria and it is not going to be getting it.

#5 Syria has said that it will use "all means available" to defend itself if the United States attacks. Would that include terror attacks in the United States itself?

#6 Syrian Foreign Minister Walid Muallem made the following statement on Tuesday...

#7 Russia has just sent their most advanced anti-ship missiles to Syria. What do you think would happen if images of sinking U.S. naval vessels were to come flashing across our television screens?

"We have two options: either to surrender, or to defend ourselves with the means at our disposal. The second choice is the best: we will defend ourselves"

#8 When the United States attacks Syria, there is a very good chance that Syria will attack Israel. Just check out what one Syrian official said recently...

#9 If Syria attacks Israel, the consequences could be absolutely catastrophic. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is promising that any attack will be responded to "forcefully"...

A member of the Syrian Ba'ath national council Halef al-Muftah, until recently the Syrian propaganda minister's aide, said on Monday that Damascus views Israel as "behind the aggression and therefore it will come under fire" should Syria be attacked by the United States.

In an interview for the American radio station Sawa in Arabic, President Bashar Assad's fellow party member said: "We have strategic weapons and we can retaliate. Essentially, the strategic weapons are aimed at Israel."

Al-Muftah stressed that the US's threats will not influence the Syrain regime and added that "If the US or Israel err through aggression and exploit the chemical issue, the region will go up in endless flames, affecting not only the area's security, but the world's."

"We are not a party to this civil war in Syria but if we identify any attempt to attack us we will respond and we will respond forcefully"

#10 Hezbollah will likely do whatever it can to fight for the survival of the Assad regime. That could include striking targets inside both the United States and Israel.

#11 Iran's closest ally is Syria. Will Iran sit idly by as their closest ally is removed from the chessboard?

#12 Starting a war with Syria will cause significant damage to our relationship with Russia. On Tuesday, Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said that the West is acting like a "monkey with a hand grenade".

#13 Starting a war with Syria will cause significant damage to our relationship with China. And what will happen if the Chinese decide to start dumping the massive amount of U.S. debt that it is holding? Interest rates would absolutely skyrocket and we would rapidly be facing a nightmare scenario.

#14 Dr. Jerome Corsi and Walid Shoebat have compiled some startling evidence that it was actually the Syrian rebels that the U.S. is supporting that were responsible for the chemical weapons attack that is being used as justification to go to war with Syria...

You can examine the evidence for yourself right here.

With the assistance of former PLO member and native Arabic-speaker Walid Shoebat, WND has assembled evidence from various Middle Eastern sources that cast doubt on Obama administration claims the Assad government is responsible for last week’s attack.

#15 As Pat Buchanan recently noted, it would have made absolutely no sense for the Assad regime to use chemical weapons on defenseless women and children. The only people who would benefit from such an attack would be the rebels...

#16 If the Saudis really want to topple the Assad regime, they should do it themselves. They should not expect the United States to do their dirty work for them.

The basic question that needs to be asked about this horrific attack on civilians, which appears to be gas related, is: Cui bono?

To whose benefit would the use of nerve gas on Syrian women and children redound? Certainly not Assad’s, as we can see from the furor and threats against him that the use of gas has produced.

The sole beneficiary of this apparent use of poison gas against civilians in rebel-held territory appears to be the rebels, who have long sought to have us come in and fight their war.

#17 A former commander of U.S. Central Command has said that a U.S. attack on Syria would result in "a full-throated, very, very serious war".

#18 A war in the Middle East will be bad for the financial markets. The Dow was down about 170 points today and concern about war with Syria was the primary reason.

#19 A war in the Middle East will cause the price of oil to go up. On Tuesday, the price of U.S. oil rose to about $109 a barrel.

#20 There is no way in the world that the U.S. government should be backing the Syrian rebels. As I discussed a few days ago, the rebels have pledged loyalty to al-Qaeda, they have beheaded numerous Christians and they have massacred entire Christian villages. If the U.S. government helps these lunatics take power in Syria it will be a complete and utter disaster.

#21 A lot of innocent civilians inside Syria will end up getting killed. Already, a lot of Syrians are expressing concern about what "foreign intervention" will mean for them and their families...

#22 If the U.S. government insists on going to war with Syria without the approval of the American people, the U.S. Congress or the United Nations, we are going to lose a lot of friends and a lot of credibility around the globe. It truly is a sad day when Russia looks like "the good guys" and we look like "the bad guys".

"I've always been a supporter of foreign intervention, but now that it seems like a reality, I've been worrying that my family could be hurt or killed," said one woman, Zaina, who opposes Assad. "I'm afraid of a military strike now."

"The big fear is that they'll make the same mistakes they made in Libya and Iraq," said Ziyad, a man in his 50s. "They'll hit civilian targets, and then they'll cry that it was by mistake, but we'll get killed in the thousands."

[F430murci]

The pictures of dead babies and children made me angry. Assad is aware of his fate while looking at the end of Saddam and Gaddafi, so he will fight till the very end. Shame on Putin for backing him up (just verbally ?).

Is this true???? If so, Putin will be dropping Syria (though not publicly) like a hot potato provided US and everyone assures Russia continued access to Tartus.

----------

"Saudis offer Russia secret oil deal if it drops Syria"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/10266957/Saudis-offer-Russia-secret-oil-deal-if-it-drops-Syria.html

[Loptr]

The pictures of dead babies and children made me angry. Assad is aware of his fate while looking at the end of Saddam and Gaddafi, so he will fight till the very end. Shame on Putin for backing him up (just verbally ?).

Is this true???? If so, Putin will be dropping Syria (though not publicly) like a hot potato provided US and everyone assures Russia continued access to Tartus.

----------

"Saudis offer Russia secret oil deal if it drops Syria"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/10266957/Saudis-offer-Russia-secret-oil-deal-if-it-drops-Syria.html

Can you say, Wag the Dog?

[Publicus]

Is there a full moon?

There has to be some explanation of all the howling at the moon going on here.

[lomatopo]

The pictures of dead babies and children made me angry. Assad is aware of his fate while looking at the end of Saddam and Gaddafi, so he will fight till the very end. Shame on Putin for backing him up (just verbally ?).

Is this true???? If so, Putin will be dropping Syria (though not publicly) like a hot potato provided US and everyone assures Russia continued access to Tartus.

----------

"Saudis offer Russia secret oil deal if it drops Syria"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/10266957/Saudis-offer-Russia-secret-oil-deal-if-it-drops-Syria.html

Can you say, Wag the Dog?

Don't laugh. The White House is frantically putting together a strategy to sell the American public on the idea of bombing yet another far-off country.

Somehow a song won't be enough, even "Good Old Shoe".

Obama struggles to justify Syria attack to skeptical Americans, Congress

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/aug/27/white-house-obama-still-undecided-syria-response/

At least this taking the heat off the NSA problem. Maybe the NSA could pitch in here and provide some "intelligence"?

[mania]

"I've always been a supporter of foreign intervention, but now that it seems like a reality, I've been worrying that my family could be hurt or killed," said one woman, Zaina, who opposes Assad. "I'm afraid of a military strike now."

"The big fear is that they'll make the same mistakes they made in Libya and Iraq," said Ziyad, a man in his 50s. "They'll hit civilian targets, and then they'll cry that it was by mistake, but we'll get killed in the thousands."

Your post is all likely/true but this especially is the reality they the Syrian civilians face

Edited August 29, 2013 by mania

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been deleted. Please stay on topic.

[Publicus]

Max Boot, a senior fellow in national security studies at the private Council on Foreign Relations in New York, founded in 1921, has pretty well analyzed the regional ramifications of a military action against the Assad regime for their use of chemical weapons.

Here is some of his wide ranging analysis..

Start with Syria's supposedly formidable air defense. Given the ease with which Israel penetrated those defenses in 1982, during the Lebanon War, and in 2007, to take out the al-Kibar nuclear reactor, it is unlikely that the systems would pose that much of a challenge to the world's most sophisticated and powerful air force.

The U.S. Air Force had no trouble taking out Saddam Hussein's air defenses on two occasions, and those, like Syria's, were constructed largely on the Russian model.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Publicus

[Publicus]

The pictures of dead babies and children made me angry. Assad is aware of his fate while looking at the end of Saddam and Gaddafi, so he will fight till the very end. Shame on Putin for backing him up (just verbally ?).

Is this true???? If so, Putin will be dropping Syria (though not publicly) like a hot potato provided US and everyone assures Russia continued access to Tartus.

----------

"Saudis offer Russia secret oil deal if it drops Syria"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/10266957/Saudis-offer-Russia-secret-oil-deal-if-it-drops-Syria.html

Max Boot, a senior fellow in national security studies at the private Council on Foreign Relations in New York, founded in 1921, has pretty well analyzed the regional ramifications of a military action against the Assad regime for their use of chemical weapons.

Here are some of his wide ranging analysis.

As for Russia, yes, Moscow has a naval station in Syria, but presumably U.S. aircraft would not target Russian facilities. Short of that, it's hard to see how anything we might do would start any kind of conflict with Russia. This isn't the Cuban missile crisis, and Russia would not go to war to defend the Assad regime.

[Publicus]

And if Syria or Iran starts pounding away at Israel, what then for the USA?

Max Boot, a senior fellow in national security studies at the private Council on Foreign Relations in New York, founded in 1921, has pretty well analyzed the regional ramifications of a military action against the Assad regime for their use of chemical weapons.

Here are some of his wide ranging analysis..

The potential for starting a "proxy war" with Iran or Russia should be even less worrisome. Iran has been waging war — sometimes by proxy, sometimes directly — against us since taking our embassy personnel hostage in 1979. If we were to help topple Tehran's allies in Damascus, it would be merely a belated counterattack for all of Iran's aggression against the United States.