Legal custody of a child to obtain a non imm "O"

[haybilly]

 

There are probably two things you need to. If child is 7 or over you would need to legitimize your parenthood at Amphoe if not then you have to do it through a Thai court. Just being on the birth certificate as the father is not enough unless married Custody can be done at an Amphoe with mothers consent. Joint custody is normally accepted for visas and extensions of stay.

 

Interesting this.  If the mother consents, can sole custody be awarded in the Amphur office? No need to go through a lawyer? My lawyer says it had to got through the court, but I guess he is biased

 

 

It is unclear to me if sole parental rights can be awarded at the amphur. It depends on the interpretation of the law.

 

Section 1549 of book V of the Thai Civil Code: http://www.thailawonline.com/images/thaicivilcode/book%205%20title%201-3%20thai%20civil%20and%20commercial%20code%20.pdf

 

It says partly or wholly excersising parental rights.  But it depends how that is interpreted. You lawyer could be right. You could check it with Isaanlawyers.

Did you not read my post- this is exactly what was awarded to me in a local Ampur- why do feel it is unclear?

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Mario2008]

I read your post, it is about divorce. I was talking about legitimization and getting sole parental rights, a different situation.

[SPIKECM]

any idea the first port of call to do this? Thanks for this.

if the OP has his name on the Thai birth certificate he could apply for a UK birth certificate then a UK passport for the child.

then get the child an ED visa. and from that he can get the non immi visa himself

The OP could apply for a UK passport but will not be able to secure a UK birth certificate if the child was born in Thailand.

I believe the Thai birth certificate can be entered into the UK-register so that you can get a birth certificate from the UK-registar.

[Mario2008]

Can be done through the Embassy, but if you do it in the UK it will be cheaper.

[ubonjoe]

Info here: https://www.gov.uk/register-a-birth

It will cost 105 pounds.

If done in UK the application is sent to the embassy and cost is the same.

Edited August 31, 2013 by ubonjoe

[epicstuff]

I dont know if things have changed in the last few years but I used to get a 'Non O' from Penang. I just presented a birth certificate that has my surname on it and a bank statement that showed the needed amount; I cant remember if that was 400K or 800K.. I was unmarried and no other documentation was asked, I did that several years running before switching to 'Non B' for a work permit .. things got a whole lot more expensive since doing that.

[nontabury]

Both parents need to consent to a passport, But from age 15 till 20 (the age of majority in Thailand) only one parent has to accompnay the child, while the other parent can just give notarised consent to the passport being issued.

That's how it's supposed to work, but in reality it is possible for the Thai mother to obtain a passport for the child without the farang fathers consent, yet when the farang father tries to obtain a Thai passport without the mothers consent he hits a blank wall.

[ubonjoe]

I dont know if things have changed in the last few years but I used to get a 'Non O' from Penang.  I  just presented a birth certificate that has my surname on it and a bank statement that showed the needed amount;  I cant remember if that was 400K or 800K.. I was unmarried and no other documentation was asked,  I  did that several years running  before switching to 'Non B' for a work permit ..  things got a whole lot more expensive since doing that.

Things have changed. Unless you were married when child was born you are not considered the legal father until you go through the process to legitimize your parenthood.

[ubonjoe]

Both parents need to consent to a passport, But from age 15 till 20 (the age of majority in Thailand) only one parent has to accompnay the child, while the other parent can just give notarised consent to the passport being issued.

That's how it's supposed to work, but in reality it is possible for the Thai mother to obtain a passport for the child without the farang fathers consent, yet when the farang father tries to obtain a Thai passport without the mothers consent he hits a blank wall.

That could only happen if you were not married when child was born. You are not the legal father until you marry or legitimize your parenthood.

[Mario2008]

Both parents need to consent to a passport, But from age 15 till 20 (the age of majority in Thailand) only one parent has to accompnay the child, while the other parent can just give notarised consent to the passport being issued.

That's how it's supposed to work, but in reality it is possible for the Thai mother to obtain a passport for the child without the farang fathers consent, yet when the farang father tries to obtain a Thai passport without the mothers consent he hits a blank wall.

Per above, the mother will have sole parental rights unless married to the father or the father has legitimized the child.

In case a passport would be issued without the consent of the legal father (or mother) who has shared parental rights, you could complain to the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs and that should result in the passport being revoked.

[nontabury]

Both parents need to consent to a passport, But from age 15 till 20 (the age of majority in Thailand) only one parent has to accompnay the child, while the other parent can just give notarised consent to the passport being issued.

That's how it's supposed to work, but in reality it is possible for the Thai mother to obtain a passport for the child without the farang fathers consent, yet when the farang father tries to obtain a Thai passport without the mothers consent he hits a blank wall.

That could only happen if you were not married when child was born. You are not the legal father until you marry or legitimize your parenthood.

I'm sorry it can happen,as I know of one case were it did happen, as MARIO2008 says in such an event you should then be able to make a complaint to the appropriate authority, who would then be able to revoke the child's passport, but would a farang be successful, I have my doubts.

[Mario2008]

That you are a foreigner makes no difference. The passport was issued against the rules.

[kerr17]

Just called the consulate in London today and they told me that the only way to get a non-imm "O" was by being married with a Thai citizen.

There is in fact no mention in their website of getting it by having legal custody of a child.

Does anyone managed to get it recently?

[ubonjoe]

It does mention it under category O but not under multiple entry. That could be an omission.

If you look it has a glaring error because it has the same financial requirement for marriage as retirement. Also the income of 1400 pounds at current exchange rate comes out to over 69k baht. Link to page http://thaiembassyuk.org.uk/?q=node/49

If you have all the documents proving you are the legal father and have custody I would apply for the visa.

But if they stick to wanting financial proof that is equal to whats needed for an extension I would get a single entry and then apply for a extension of stay.

[nontabury]

That you are a foreigner makes no difference. The passport was issued against the rules.

Re my post 41, I have today spoken with the Farang father and his new wife regarding this matter, they assure me that the other week they went to the passport office in Bkk in order to renew his daughters passport, they were told they must obtain permission from the birth mother before a new passport would be issued, they then asked, what would happen if the birth mother applies by herself,the reply " no problem, we would issue her with the new passport ". They asked the official, what if she did not have permission from the legal Farang father?. Again no problem we would issue her with the new passport because the mother is Thai.

[SPIKECM]

Just to complete this. I was last week awarded custody of my 8 year old daughter by her local amphur office. No lawyer needed. In fact the order threatens me with 3 years in jail and a fine of 6,000 baht if I don't look after her properly. There might be some benefit from papers from a provincial court, but the papers I have look good enough to me. I applied for a Thai passport as well (at the provincial office) and as her ID card's name was extremely poorly translated, we had to go along with the same spelling. It is so bad, I will now have to go and change the name on the ID card to a better English translation. I am sure I can do this, but anyone of experience please comment. I know that Thai people can pretty well go and change their name to anything they wish, so I don't anticipate any great problem. Then of course the passport will have to be changed after the ID card is, but again..I anticipate no problem...but comments will be appreciated. Thanks

I'll let you know next week! I just contacted the mother of my daughter and she went into the amphur office and it seems that they can do it. Just requires me to sign after she does her bit. So, I am awaiting a call next week for me to go there and sign. We'll see.. but useful this Thai visa as otherwise I would have gone through a lawyer.

There are probably two things you need to. If child is 7 or over you would need to legitimize your parenthood at Amphoe if not then you have to do it through a Thai court. Just being on the birth certificate as the father is not enough unless married Custody can be done at an Amphoe with mothers consent. Joint custody is normally accepted for visas and extensions of stay.

Interesting this. If the mother consents, can sole custody be awarded in the Amphur office? No need to go through a lawyer? My lawyer says it had to got through the court, but I guess he is biased

It is unclear to me if sole parental rights can be awarded at the amphur. It depends on the interpretation of the law.

Section 1549 of book V of the Thai Civil Code: http://www.thailawonline.com/images/thaicivilcode/book%205%20title%201-3%20thai%20civil%20and%20commercial%20code%20.pdf

It says partly or wholly excersising parental rights. But it depends how that is interpreted. You lawyer could be right. You could check it with Isaanlawyers.

Edited September 16, 2013 by SPIKECM

[kerr17]

Hull consulate updated their website and there seems to be no mention anymore about getting the non-imm O by being having legal custody of a thai child.

I phoned London consulate and they also told me that the only way to get non-imm O is now only the reported on their site (being married with a Thai citizen + the money part).

I was just about to spend the money for the court to get legal custody, but I presume from now on Tourist Visa is my only option.

[ubonjoe]

Hull consulate updated their website and there seems to be no mention anymore about getting the non-imm O by being having legal custody of a thai child.

 

I phoned London consulate and they also told me that the only way to get non-imm O is now only the reported on their site (being married with a Thai citizen + the money part).

 

I was just about to spend the money for the court to get legal custody, but I presume from now on Tourist Visa is my only option.

You don't have to do it in the UK. With all the documents needed you could probably get it in Savannakhet or Penang.

Or get an extension of stay from immigration.

[SPIKECM]

I've never had a problem with Hull. I always got my non O because of my son, but he is no longer at school. I am going back to UK for a week and I will apply for a Non O again when I am there.... back in Thailand on 12 Oct.. I am sure I'll get it, but I will let you know. I've never been married to a Thai, but I have legal custody of my 8 year old daughter who has Thai nationality. They threaten me with 3 years in jail if I don't look after her properly, so I just can't see a problem. The point that these people don't seem to get is that a tourist visa is the wrong type of visa in this situation.

Hull consulate updated their website and there seems to be no mention anymore about getting the non-imm O by being having legal custody of a thai child.

I phoned London consulate and they also told me that the only way to get non-imm O is now only the reported on their site (being married with a Thai citizen + the money part).

I was just about to spend the money for the court to get legal custody, but I presume from now on Tourist Visa is my only option.

[Mario2008]

Hull is no longer allowed to issue a non-O visa on the spot, they must first get approval to issue from the embassy in London.

They now have much stricter rules, as mentioned in the post you quote.

[SPIKECM]

You don't have to go to court for a custody order...maybe depends on age of child though.. look at previous posts.. but for me, getting proper legal custody of my 8 years old daughter (mother agreed) was all done through Amphur office. If the mother does not wish to give you custody and you wish to fight, then don't expect to win easily. I broke my balls for one year doing this and then I gave up. Eventually her mother agreed..no fight..just a visit to the Amphur office.

Hull consulate updated their website and there seems to be no mention anymore about getting the non-imm O by being having legal custody of a thai child.

I phoned London consulate and they also told me that the only way to get non-imm O is now only the reported on their site (being married with a Thai citizen + the money part).

I was just about to spend the money for the court to get legal custody, but I presume from now on Tourist Visa is my only option.

Edited September 21, 2013 by SPIKECM

[ubonjoe]

It seems that the embassy is making a general statement about not doing visas for having a Thai child. If you are the legal father and have custody they should do it if you present proof of your status. Of course you would have to submit the financial proof they now want.

If you have the financials it would be best to get an extension here.

[SPIKECM]

Just to cancel out what I said there! I did get "custody" in the amphuer office, but when I go around Thai government offices waiving my bit of paper around, it just doesn't work the same as a court order. I still have to get the mother's ID card copied and a signed document from her. I obviously don't have sole legal custody and I am now going to have to take it to court. It is quite obvious that getting proper legal custody is a matter for a provincial court affair, not one for an amphuer office.

As far as my paper being useful for a Non O visa, there is no facility to get a non O visa if you are not married to a Thai and less than 50 it seems. So, I have an amphuer office telling me on the one hand that if I don't look after my child properly I can go to jail for three years and on the other hand, no reason for immigration granting me a visa to be here. I get round this because of my age (over 50), but according to the Hull website, there's no mention that I would get a non O visa based on my dependent Thai child, even if I got custody through a provincial court. It seems that you simply have to be married to a Thai or be over 50.

You don't have to go to court for a custody order...maybe depends on age of child though.. look at previous posts.. but for me, getting proper legal custody of my 8 years old daughter (mother agreed) was all done through Amphur office. If the mother does not wish to give you custody and you wish to fight, then don't expect to win easily. I broke my balls for one year doing this and then I gave up. Eventually her mother agreed..no fight..just a visit to the Amphur office.

Hull consulate updated their website and there seems to be no mention anymore about getting the non-imm O by being having legal custody of a thai child.

I phoned London consulate and they also told me that the only way to get non-imm O is now only the reported on their site (being married with a Thai citizen + the money part).

I was just about to spend the money for the court to get legal custody, but I presume from now on Tourist Visa is my only option.

Edited September 28, 2013 by SPIKECM

[sometimewoodworker]

In japan you can get a visa with a Thai dependant. The visa class is Non-O spouse but as you can see a dependant is also OK. So I would check with the embassy to see if they may have missed that point.

7. A copy of Thai identity card and passport of Thai spouse or dependent.

8. A copy of marriage certificate of the spouse or birth certificate of the dependent and a copy of household registration issued by the competent authority of Thailand.

http://www.thaiembassy.jp/rte2/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=603%3Anon-immigrant-o-spouse--dependent-of-thai-citizen&catid=51%3Avisa&Itemid=98

In fact the London embassy. Lists "Category "O"

To visit Thai spouse, children, parents or voluntary job."

And it lists a birth certificate if visiting a child

http://thaiembassyuk.org.uk/?q=node/49

Non-Immigrant Type O

Birth Certificate (applicant's child)

Certificate of Marriage or its equivalents (if married to Thai national)

An official recommendation letter from organization perform voluntary job in Thailand (for volunteer job)

Edited September 29, 2013 by sometimewoodworker

[SPIKECM]

Thanks for that. The trouble is that these decisions are arbitrary depending on the embassy/consulate. I got my wife (Filipina) an Non O from Hull no problem before and I never had a problem myself based on my Thai son here. Savannakhet says now that I am OK for a Non O, but not my wife. In Vientiane, it seems to be dependant on whether there's a new guy in charge or not. Manila I am told...don't even go there...and I know that country well enough to know that is good advice. I'll be heading to Vientiane and hope that I can find a decent agent there like we did before.

In japan you can get a visa with a Thai dependant. The visa class is Non-O spouse but as you can see a dependant is also OK. So I would check with the embassy to see if they may have missed that point.

7. A copy of Thai identity card and passport of Thai spouse or dependent.
8. A copy of marriage certificate of the spouse or birth certificate of the dependent and a copy of household registration issued by the competent authority of Thailand.

http://www.thaiembassy.jp/rte2/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=603%3Anon-immigrant-o-spouse--dependent-of-thai-citizen&catid=51%3Avisa&Itemid=98

In fact the London embassy. Lists "Category "O"
To visit Thai spouse, children, parents or voluntary job."

And it lists a birth certificate if visiting a child
http://thaiembassyuk.org.uk/?q=node/49

Non-Immigrant Type O

Birth Certificate (applicant's child)
Certificate of Marriage or its equivalents (if married to Thai national)
An official recommendation letter from organization perform voluntary job in Thailand (for volunteer job)

[rhopkins]

Which lawyer did you use? My lawyer has quoted me 40,000 baht

[Mario2008]

Which lawyer did you use? My lawyer has quoted me 40,000 baht

Shop around, and if you want a name you might mention the area. A CM lawyer is not handy if living in BKK.

If the mother of the child cooperates it is not much work and 40,000 seems excessive.