Legal custody of a child to obtain a non imm "O"

[kerr17]

- Does anyone know exactly what document is required to obtain a multi entry non imm "O" in UK for family reason other then just a birth certificate of child showing relationship?

On the website it says:

a) Birth Certificate of child showing relationship
b ) Proof of having legal custody of the child

How to get the second document and where with the agreed mutual consent of both parents (we are an unmarried couple).

I did some research but I read different version on that matter, could someone specify please?

How much it would cost and what's the procedure?

Thanks

[kerr17]

I tried to contact both London and Hull consulate via email but no answer so far.

[Maestro]

I believe the age of the child is a factor. What is its age?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[ubonjoe]

There are probably two things you need to.

If child is 7 or over you would need to legitimize your parenthood at Amphoe if not then you have to do it through a Thai court. Just being on the birth certificate as the father is not enough unless married

Custody can be done at an Amphoe with mothers consent. Joint custody is normally accepted for visas and extensions of stay.

Edited August 29, 2013 by ubonjoe

[phuketrichard]

i have had legal sole custody of my child since she was 9,

only a court can issue this ,

so u need get a lawyer an have him make the petition to the family court an ur ex will either agree or not show up ( as mine did) an that's that.

Costs me 50,000 and that included the divorce but that was over 8 years ago in Phuket

Joint custody, i don't know about but assume u would need go to family court with ur partner an have her agree to grant joint custody, speak with a family lawyer in Thailand

this is important as until the child reaches 16 u need both parents to be there to have passport renewed.

[ubonjoe]

i have had legal sole custody of my child since she was 9,

only a court can issue this ,

so u need get a lawyer an have him make the petition to the family court an ur ex will either agree or not show up ( as mine did) an that's  that.

Costs me 50,000 and that included the divorce but that was over 8 years ago in Phuket

Joint custody, i don't know about but assume u would need go to family court with ur partner an have her agree to grant joint custody,  speak with a family lawyer in Thailand

this is important as until the child reaches 16 u need both parents to be there to have passport renewed.

A bit different situation than OP's since he is not married.

You must of had a nasty divorce. If both parties agree everything can be done at the Amphoe including custody.

Custody can be done at Amphoe as long as mother agrees and signs a document.

[Mario2008]

Both parents need to consent to a passport, But from age 15 till 20 (the age of majority in Thailand) only one parent has to accompnay the child, while the other parent can just give notarised consent to the passport being issued.

[kerr17]

Thanks for all the reply,

As far as I understood, custody can be done at the Amphoe along with the mother? what's the name of the document?

The child is 4 years old (I have 2 child but I guess having custody of one would be enough).

[Mario2008]

The child is not old enough, the norm is that the child must be about 7 years olld. But as the law doesn't give an actual age, you can try it if it is an amphur up-country where everybody knows eachother and they know you and that you are the father. But that are really exceptions.

Try it, but expect to be told "no". Simply asked to be recognised as the legal father of the child. Both mother and child must agree to this and accompany you, not just the mother. Having the village headman pleading your case might help. But don't bother to do it this way in a bigger place and certainly not in Bangkok or Chiang Mai.

If refuses, as is likely, your ownly way is to either marry the mother (you become the legal father automatically) or pettion the court to be recognised as the legal father. In the end the court makes a decision and if they agree you are the father of the children you take the court decision to the amphur where the record that you are the legal father.

[ubonjoe]

Mario you gave an answer for legitimization. OP was asking about custody.

But he does need to do legitimization.

Custody should be easy at Amphoe.

[kerr17]

The child is not old enough, the norm is that the child must be about 7 years olld. But as the law doesn't give an actual age, you can try it if it is an amphur up-country where everybody knows eachother and they know you and that you are the father. But that are really exceptions.

Try it, but expect to be told "no". Simply asked to be recognised as the legal father of the child. Both mother and child must agree to this and accompany you, not just the mother. Having the village headman pleading your case might help. But don't bother to do it this way in a bigger place and certainly not in Bangkok or Chiang Mai.

If refuses, as is likely, your ownly way is to either marry the mother (you become the legal father automatically) or pettion the court to be recognised as the legal father. In the end the court makes a decision and if they agree you are the father of the children you take the court decision to the amphur where the record that you are the legal father.

Thanks.

In this case going to court would be my only option considering that I live in Bangkok and marry the mother is not an alternative?

As I said that would needed in order to get a Non-Imm "O" back in UK given that now they are much more strict on releasing them.

Giving them evidence of supporting the kid (school fee, etc....) would not be enough? is the document from the court the only one they required?

If so does anyone know the exact procedure and the timing to do so?

Thanks in advance!

[Paul888]

It depends on the person at the counter and the Amphur I think especially if there is any form of complication. I was sent off to family court because my child's mother was deceased, and even though I had all the right documents and my 8 year old daughter was with me and speaks perfect Thai and English they still needed to pass it to the court to make a ruling.

Family court itself is relatively painless but you do have to make detailed statements about how you met the mother, and how much money you have/make etc - I presume so the court can satisfy itself that you can afford to take care of the child - (although of course they did nothing to verify what I told them).

The lawyer cost me about 15,000 which I believe is standard and with court waiting times it took about 3 months to finish which included a 1 month period during which they announce it somewhere and others can claim the child!. Thankfully in my case nobody did.

[Mario2008]

Mario you gave an answer for legitimization. OP was asking about custody.

But he does need to do legitimization.

Custody should be easy at Amphoe.

Indeed not the same, but I believe that Hull and other Thai consulates now require proof of being the legal father of the child to issue a non-immigant O visa.

Immigration in Thailand seems to be stricter and can require that one also has parental rights over the child, sometimes even sole parental rights.

OP should indeed apply for both being recognised as the legal father and to have shared parental rights together with the mother if that is not given automatically.

Process in Bangkok should indeed be around 3 months, but in the case the mother agrees and is alive it will be a bit shorter and less expensive as the lawyer will not have to appear as many times as in the example of Paul888. I would guess that the price in that case will be 10,000. But much depends on the lawyer fee. This is however a straight forward case and no need for the best in his field.

[ubonjoe]

The child is not old enough, the norm is that the child must be about 7 years olld. But as the law doesn't give an actual age, you can try it if it is an amphur up-country where everybody knows eachother and they know you and that you are the father. But that are really exceptions.

 

Try it, but expect to be told "no". Simply asked to be recognised as the legal father of the child. Both mother and child must agree to this and accompany you, not just the mother. Having the village headman pleading your case might help. But don't bother to do it this way in a bigger place and certainly not in Bangkok or Chiang Mai.

 

If refuses, as is likely, your ownly way is to either marry the mother (you become the legal father automatically) or pettion the court to be recognised as the legal father. In the end the court makes a decision and if they agree you are the father of the children you take the court decision to the amphur where the record that you are the legal father.

 

 

 

 

Thanks.

 

In this case going to court would be my only option considering that I live in Bangkok and marry the mother is not an alternative?

As I said that would needed in order to get a Non-Imm "O" back in UK given that now they are much more strict on releasing them.

 

Giving them evidence of supporting the kid (school fee, etc....) would not be enough? is the document from the court the only one they required?

If so does anyone know the exact procedure and the timing to do so?

 

Thanks in advance!

Info in Mario's post is to legitimize you as the child's father.

Custody can be done at Amphoe with mothers agreement.

[Mario2008]

The child is not old enough, the norm is that the child must be about 7 years olld. But as the law doesn't give an actual age, you can try it if it is an amphur up-country where everybody knows eachother and they know you and that you are the father. But that are really exceptions.

Try it, but expect to be told "no". Simply asked to be recognised as the legal father of the child. Both mother and child must agree to this and accompany you, not just the mother. Having the village headman pleading your case might help. But don't bother to do it this way in a bigger place and certainly not in Bangkok or Chiang Mai.

If refuses, as is likely, your ownly way is to either marry the mother (you become the legal father automatically) or pettion the court to be recognised as the legal father. In the end the court makes a decision and if they agree you are the father of the children you take the court decision to the amphur where the record that you are the legal father.

Thanks.

In this case going to court would be my only option considering that I live in Bangkok and marry the mother is not an alternative?

As I said that would needed in order to get a Non-Imm "O" back in UK given that now they are much more strict on releasing them.

Giving them evidence of supporting the kid (school fee, etc....) would not be enough? is the document from the court the only one they required?

If so does anyone know the exact procedure and the timing to do so?

Thanks in advance!

Info in Mario's post is to legitimize you as the child's father.

Custody can be done at Amphoe with mothers agreement.

It is a bit more complicated. Custody is a wrong term to use in Thai law, better to say parental rights. Custody is more in whose care the child is, a caretaker. It does not have to be one of the legal parrents.

The situation is as follows:

One can legitimize a child in 3 ways, as mentioned before.

- By marrying the mother, and then the father automatically becomes the legal father and also gets automatically parental rights over the child.

- by legitimising the child at the amphur, the mother and/or child can allow the legitimisation, but can at the same time also deny the father getting joined or sole parental rights. In that case the father becomes the legal father, but the court will have to decide over the question if he also will get parental rights.

- the father petions the court to become the legal father, also in this case he can become the legal father with the mother or child contesting him getting parental rightsand the court will judge on this seperatly.

So yes, if he becomes the legal father he will automatically get joined parental rights, unless the mother or child object to him also getting parental rights. Than the judge decides regarding that.

[parryhandy]

The child is not old enough, the norm is that the child must be about 7 years olld. But as the law doesn't give an actual age, you can try it if it is an amphur up-country where everybody knows eachother and they know you and that you are the father. But that are really exceptions.

Try it, but expect to be told "no". Simply asked to be recognised as the legal father of the child. Both mother and child must agree to this and accompany you, not just the mother. Having the village headman pleading your case might help. But don't bother to do it this way in a bigger place and certainly not in Bangkok or Chiang Mai.

If refuses, as is likely, your ownly way is to either marry the mother (you become the legal father automatically) or pettion the court to be recognised as the legal father. In the end the court makes a decision and if they agree you are the father of the children you take the court decision to the amphur where the record that you are the legal father.

Thanks.

In this case going to court would be my only option considering that I live in Bangkok and marry the mother is not an alternative?

As I said that would needed in order to get a Non-Imm "O" back in UK given that now they are much more strict on releasing them.

Giving them evidence of supporting the kid (school fee, etc....) would not be enough? is the document from the court the only one they required?

If so does anyone know the exact procedure and the timing to do so?

Thanks in advance!

Info in Mario's post is to legitimize you as the child's father.

Custody can be done at Amphoe with mothers agreement.

It is a bit more complicated. Custody is a wrong term to use in Thai law, better to say parental rights. Custody is more in whose care the child is, a caretaker. It does not have to be one of the legal parrents.

The situation is as follows:

One can legitimize a child in 3 ways, as mentioned before.

- By marrying the mother, and then the father automatically becomes the legal father and also gets automatically parental rights over the child.

- by legitimising the child at the amphur, the mother and/or child can allow the legitimisation, but can at the same time also deny the father getting joined or sole parental rights. In that case the father becomes the legal father, but the court will have to decide over the question if he also will get parental rights.

- the father petions the court to become the legal father, also in this case he can become the legal father with the mother or child contesting him getting parental rightsand the court will judge on this seperatly.

So yes, if he becomes the legal father he will automatically get joined parental rights, unless the mother or child object to him also getting parental rights. Than the judge decides regarding that.

Is there pieces of paper/certificates you get for legitimacy and parental rights ?

Also if you were married (and were the real father) and subsequently divorce do you lose legitimacy and parental rights or is just showing that you were married at the time enough ?

Edited August 29, 2013 by parryhandy

[Maestro]

Removed an off-topic post about divorce settlement.

[Mario2008]

Is there pieces of paper/certificates you get for legitimacy and parental rights ?

Also if you were married (and were the real father) and subsequently divorce do you lose legitimacy and parental rights or is just showing that you were married at the time enough ?

If you go to court, you get a court decision and that is handed over to the amphur by you. Than the amphur changes their records to reflect the court decision. You can get a paper from the amphur that shows how the legal parents of a child is/are.

if you were married and get a divorce you are still the legal father. What might change is the question if you still have parental rights. The norm is that it does not change, both parent keep parental rights.

Parental rights are lossed in two situations:

- you agree to give the other parent sole parental rights (for example in the divorce agreement)

- the other parent petition the court to be awarded sole parental rights. (For that the judge must deem you a danger to the child or incapable).

What in a contested divorce often happens is that one parent will be the prime caretaker and the other has visitation rights. With a divorce at the amphur it is whatever the parents agree to in a divorce agreement, not seldom nothing is agreed upon and both will have equal rights.

[haybilly]

I can testify that what UbonJoe is saying is correct--when dealing with a Divorce at the Wife/Mother's/Child's Ampur as on their Tabian bahn--it is totally possible, with the mother's agreement to get Full/Sole/Total custody of a Thai/Farang child--this is what happened to me; admittedly I did have to pay the wife during the divorce process, not a huge amount, and, with a letter from my lawyer detailing the reasons for the divorce, she was not in a position to contest the application--i.e. she would have lost.

We are still on reasonable terms and I allow [ indeed it was stipulated that the mother had] access when it is convenient for myself and the child's education schedule.

[SPIKECM]

I tried to contact both London and Hull consulate via email but no answer so far.

I contacted Hull a year or so about this...they told me all I needed was a note from my son's school to confirm that I paid his fees and his birth certificate.

My son is now in the UK and not at a Thai school anymore, so I can't use him, so now I will need to get an O visa from Hull again, but this time I will use my daughter who lives in a dark corner of the North East, but I can produce a note of fees and her birth certificate. I am confident of getting a Non O from Hull with only this although she doesn't live with me, but I wouldn't be so sure about success in Vientiane or Savvanakhet. I am trying to get legal custody of my daughter, but Thais hate anything to do with courts, so it isn't easy. If you get legal custody then it is plain sailing. I think Hull will be no bother as long as you let them see the birth certificate and a note of you paying school fees. Unless of course things have changed in the last year, but I have heard nothing. Interested to hear any further comments though.

[SPIKECM]

There are probably two things you need to. If child is 7 or over you would need to legitimize your parenthood at Amphoe if not then you have to do it through a Thai court. Just being on the birth certificate as the father is not enough unless married Custody can be done at an Amphoe with mothers consent. Joint custody is normally accepted for visas and extensions of stay.

Interesting this. If the mother consents, can sole custody be awarded in the Amphur office? No need to go through a lawyer? My lawyer says it had to got through the court, but I guess he is biased

[ubonjoe]

I tried to contact both London and Hull consulate via email but no answer so far.

 

I contacted Hull a year or so about this...they told me all I needed was a note from my son's school to confirm that I paid his fees and his birth certificate.

My son is now in the UK and not at a Thai school anymore, so I can't use him, so now I will need to get an O visa from Hull again, but this time I will use my daughter who lives in a dark corner of the North East, but I can produce a note of fees and her birth certificate. I am confident of getting a Non O from Hull with only this although she doesn't live with me, but I wouldn't be so sure about success in Vientiane or Savvanakhet. I am trying to get legal custody of my daughter, but Thais hate anything to do with courts, so it isn't easy. If you get legal custody then it is plain sailing. I think Hull will be no bother as long as you let them see the birth certificate and a note of you paying school fees. Unless of course things have changed in the last year, but I have heard nothing. Interested to hear any further comments though.

Thing have just changed.

All honorary consulates in the UK now have to submit all multiple entry visa applications to the embassy in London for approval. So there is a very good chance you will not get a visa now.

There is an ongoing topic about this.

Also because of this it now takes up to 4 days for approval at Hull.

[Mario2008]

There are probably two things you need to. If child is 7 or over you would need to legitimize your parenthood at Amphoe if not then you have to do it through a Thai court. Just being on the birth certificate as the father is not enough unless married Custody can be done at an Amphoe with mothers consent. Joint custody is normally accepted for visas and extensions of stay.

Interesting this. If the mother consents, can sole custody be awarded in the Amphur office? No need to go through a lawyer? My lawyer says it had to got through the court, but I guess he is biased

It is unclear to me if sole parental rights can be awarded at the amphur. It depends on the interpretation of the law.

Section 1549 of book V of the Thai Civil Code: http://www.thailawonline.com/images/thaicivilcode/book%205%20title%201-3%20thai%20civil%20and%20commercial%20code%20.pdf

It says partly or wholly excersising parental rights. But it depends how that is interpreted. You lawyer could be right. You could check it with Isaanlawyers.

[SPIKECM]

I'll let you know next week! I just contacted the mother of my daughter and she went into the amphur office and it seems that they can do it. Just requires me to sign after she does her bit. So, I am awaiting a call next week for me to go there and sign. We'll see.. but useful this Thai visa as otherwise I would have gone through a lawyer.

There are probably two things you need to. If child is 7 or over you would need to legitimize your parenthood at Amphoe if not then you have to do it through a Thai court. Just being on the birth certificate as the father is not enough unless married Custody can be done at an Amphoe with mothers consent. Joint custody is normally accepted for visas and extensions of stay.

Interesting this. If the mother consents, can sole custody be awarded in the Amphur office? No need to go through a lawyer? My lawyer says it had to got through the court, but I guess he is biased

It is unclear to me if sole parental rights can be awarded at the amphur. It depends on the interpretation of the law.

Section 1549 of book V of the Thai Civil Code: http://www.thailawonline.com/images/thaicivilcode/book%205%20title%201-3%20thai%20civil%20and%20commercial%20code%20.pdf

It says partly or wholly excersising parental rights. But it depends how that is interpreted. You lawyer could be right. You could check it with Isaanlawyers.

[givenall]

i have had legal sole custody of my child since she was 9,

only a court can issue this ,

so u need get a lawyer an have him make the petition to the family court an ur ex will either agree or not show up ( as mine did) an that's that.

Costs me 50,000 and that included the divorce but that was over 8 years ago in Phuket

Joint custody, i don't know about but assume u would need go to family court with ur partner an have her agree to grant joint custody, speak with a family lawyer in Thailand

this is important as until the child reaches 16 u need both parents to be there to have passport renewed.

I just went through the court to legitimatize my daughter as mine and coast me 15000 bth using a lawyer

[silentnine]

if the OP has his name on the Thai birth certificate he could apply for a UK birth certificate then a UK passport for the child.

then get the child an ED visa. and from that he can get the non immi visa himself

[Mario2008]

if the OP has his name on the Thai birth certificate he could apply for a UK birth certificate then a UK passport for the child.

then get the child an ED visa. and from that he can get the non immi visa himself

With making the the Thai child subject to immigration regulations and needing to show 500,000 baht in an account instead of 400,000 THB.

In addition, they might want to see the birth certificate and wonder why the child is not in Thailand as a Thai national and deny the extension for the father as the child is Thai.

[jrtmedic]

if the OP has his name on the Thai birth certificate he could apply for a UK birth certificate then a UK passport for the child.

then get the child an ED visa. and from that he can get the non immi visa himself

The OP could apply for a UK passport but will not be able to secure a UK birth certificate if the child was born in Thailand.

[Mario2008]

if the OP has his name on the Thai birth certificate he could apply for a UK birth certificate then a UK passport for the child.

then get the child an ED visa. and from that he can get the non immi visa himself

The OP could apply for a UK passport but will not be able to secure a UK birth certificate if the child was born in Thailand.

I believe the Thai birth certificate can be entered into the UK-register so that you can get a birth certificate from the UK-registar.

[jrtmedic]

One can lodge a copy of a Thai marriage or birth certificate. If a copy is required in the future a copy of the original Thai certificate will be provided !

Most do not bother - there are few if any advantages and it costs money !