Learn Thai?

[Georgie-Porgie]

Ajarn,Wed 2004-03-10, 10:23:01

I started at AUA in 1986 with Ajarn Oranute, who is still a teacher there. Highly recommended for the serious student. She's a great teacher, and starts your learning by helping you to build a good foundation in the language.... After many years of living here, I still don't consider myself fluent in Thai (the more I learn, the more I realize how much more there is to learn), but it's rare that I meet a farang with equal ability to mine in Thai- mostly, I think, because they rely on their wives so much and still use their native language at home...I was married for 7 years, and I've seen a marked improvement in my Thai in the last 2 (free) years

I can back the Ajarn up on his fluency in Thai. He was one of those guys that we were all jealous of 10 years ago, and he's done nothing but get better.

[aaaaaa]

If you are going to live in Thailand, learning to speak Thai is a, in my opinion, a must. I went to school for four years to learn to speak Thai, and am now fairly fluent in conversational Thai.

Don't worry about the tones to start with, they will come as time goes by. The most important thing is to get the sentance structure correct, them most Thai's will understand what you are saying even if you have the tones wrong.

As for the age factor, well you are never to old to learn new things if you want to.

I agree...

although must or should - I think it is personal decision depending on one's need, determination etc.

fluency is also relative thing and it varies from person to person. some have better abilitied to learn languages, other less... one my friend has learned more then 7 languages - fluent, I have observed her speaking to native speakers of those languages who excitedly expressd their amazement - simply by speaking to people and living in the countries where those languages are spoken.

but another point is - the ability to comunicate and be comunicable/ approachable easily for other ppl.

there are many deaf/ dumb vendors on Sukhumvit selling things - and they doing pretty well. and the interesting thing - I found myself able to comunicate with few of them, one girl is my good friend. I naver learned their sign language - yet we understand each other somehow... one guy my friend observed me "talking" to that girl and her b/f - and he said I was very good at it...

the thing is - language is only one of comunication tools, although one of the main. but even though one might be a native speaker of particular language and have pretty good vocab - still not necessary might be able to express everything or convey the subtle nuances of particular subject...

I mean - learning language is not simply learning characters, grammar, spelling, tones.... it is much more !

often I can't sleep at night and go out to read a book on the fresh air. and the old security gurd always comes to sit and chat with me... I can hardly understand 5% of what he is telling me. but he keeps talking making me wonder: does he realise that I can't follow? may be he does but then why he still keeps talking?

in other circumstances I have seen myself and many other ppl who speak some local language to some vendors or taxi drivers or whoever one is trying to ask something - and simply coz it is not in that locz person' interest, he would pretend till end that he doesn't understand u.... they just refuse to comunicate with u if they don't want to - no matter how fluent u might be...

one my freind told me a story that 10 or may be 20 years back in mainland China the most popular joke among the foreigners ther was to greet each other by wrod "Meyo" (means "don't have" in chinese) instead of "Hi" or "Hello". the reason for that was - that whenever and wherever any foreigner tried to ask something some chinese person - be it for geting hotel room or to buy something or whatever - they would only say even ofen b4 listening or saying the min greeting words: "Meyo" ! they just refused to comunicate....

[aaaaaa]

......Many European languages share common roots, or have words that are similar or derived from the same concept. All of this makes them much easier to pick up. Now when learning Thai, you are faced with virtually NO words sounding similar to what you already know. ..............

well , not realy...........

for example word mother has very similar sound in most of lagnuages in the world...

then most of europian languages originate from sanskrit as well as Thai does. although thai more close to Pali, which was sort of colloqial form of sanskrit...

so for those who are familiar with sanskrit related languags like hindi, nepali, bengali, even bahasa melayu or bahasa indonesia - there would be definetely many familiar words in Thai. in fact many are almost the same: like words "greed", "envy", "desire".....

even many steet names are quite similar Ratcha=Raja Thewi=Devi Buri=Puri (like in Petchburi) etc....

the thing is - most of peopl in the world especially those from english speaking countries, have a habit to think that english - must ! and all the somparisons and evaluations and estimates of one's abilities are based on that..... but what if within next few decades Chinese would dominate the world of international relations? perhaps they would say something similar: "oh, it is so weird this english - no familiar sounds and tones, and the characters are so scarce - how to fully express oneself with so limited number !~"

world is still dominated by old-fashined colonial views.... many times annoyed tourists tell locals in very anrgy and demanding manner: "u better learn english well !" funny, huh?

[Boon Mee]

Quoting mrmnp:

<<This has been an incredibly valuable thread and I would like to express my deep and heartfelt appreciation for the very intelligent responses.

I hope the Admins don't "D&C" this tread for a year and more as I intend to refer back to it as long as I study, as I know, the level of my understanding of the wisdom imparted herein will grow with study.

The advice of practice strikes home as when I studied Japanese at the University of Hawaii two years ago, their "new" textbook, just published taught the language by phrases primarily, leaving grammar and vocabulary for later years of study.

The lessons were arranged by "situations" giving you all the phrases needed to "get along" in any given "situaion". Department Store, Train Station, Fruit Vendor, etc.

This thread inspires, and re-reading it spurs me on, many thanks again>>

Second that recommendation as the "sister" site thai-language.com has gone down.

Boon Mee

[Guest IT Manager]

This has been an incredibly valuable thread and I would like to express my deep and heartfelt appreciation for the very intelligent responses.

I hope the Admins don't "D&C" this tread for a year and more as I intend to refer back to it as long as I study, as I know, the level of my understanding of the wisdom imparted herein will grow with study.

The advice of practice strikes home as when I studied Japanese at the University of Hawaii two years ago, their "new" textbook, just published taught the language by phrases primarily, leaving grammar and vocabulary for later years of study.

The lessons were arranged by "situations" giving you all the phrases needed to "get along" in any given "situaion". Department Store, Train Station, Fruit Vendor, etc.

This thread inspires, and re-reading it spurs me on, many thanks again.

Admins rarely D&C threads. When we changed servers, all the old stuff came as well.

Rather than depend on admins for everything, make a folder in your favourites section and call it Thaivisa Stuff.

Whenever you see something that is good, that you want to keep, do a shortcut to it, and drop in that folder. Voila. You are doing something yuorself.

You should be able to "add to favourites" and put in the folder quite simply, as each topic has its own identifying number.

Hope it helps.

IT/Schoolmarm

[mrmnp]

Your really it, IT. Thanks

[Richard W]

then most of europian languages originate from sanskrit as well as Thai does. although thai more close to Pali, which was sort of colloqial form of sanskrit...

Apart from the distortion of the relationships of these languages, the divergences between European languages and Sanskrit are quite large, and then one has to contend with the Thai consonant shift to boot. One needs a lot of etymological knowledge to use the literal relationship "thantaphaet" = 'tooth-wit' = 'dent(al)-vid(eo)' or to relate "(pra)jan" = 'candid' = '(in)cend(iary)' = '(in)cense'. ("loke" - one syllable - is related to 'leuco(cyte)', 'lucid', 'light' and 'luna®'!) As for "thawit" = 'two-kin' = 'duo-gen(us)', the meaning 'bird, brahmin' is not exactly obvious. Numbers in compound words and family members are about the limit of the practical memory aids for most people here.

so for those who are familiar with sanskrit related languags like hindi, nepali, bengali, even bahasa melayu or bahasa indonesia - there would be definetely many familiar words in Thai. in fact many are almost the same: like words "greed", "envy", "desire".....

Which merely underlines that culturally, Thailand historically belongs to the Indian world rather than the European world, and that we are not talking about common words when we look at the Indian linguistic heritage of Thai.

but what if within next few decades Chinese would dominate the world of international relations? perhaps they would say something similar: "oh, it is so weird this english - no familiar sounds and tones, and the characters are so scarce - how to fully express oneself with so limited number !~"

At least Thai has quite a bit in common with Chinese!

[The Mask]

Hello Group,

Gotta agree with everyone above saying it is a must if for no onther reason than safety, personal security and basic societal functionality.

I'm only a few months into my learning process and am still taking baby steps, but the Thai people I know are impressed with what I've learned so far. My Thai GF also gets suprised and happy when I bring new words or phrases into the conversation. Same goes for her with learning american-speak. She is learning from me and I am learning from her.

While the tonality can be tricky, from my limited experience I think it just comes with practice and trying to use it. I'm kinda sorta getting the hang of it, though still have a long way to go.

For me so far, the hardest thing has been trying to learn to read and write Thai script. It is like being back in pre-school all over again, trying to learn to print slowly when others around you can write cursive with speed and ease.

This too is coming along slowly but surely. I think the key to reading Thai script is becoming familiar with the common phrases and the context that they are used in. Then very often you see the same patterns in the rows of letters and it helps to interpret what is being written. It is difficult, but I started with trying to recognize little things like the "ka" and "khrup" polite particles and other simple 2 and 3 word combinations and then working my way up.

The same goes for learning through listening. I try to listen as closely as I can when I hear Thais speaking. Even though I can't understand everything perfectly, I can still pick up little bits and pieces. I still can't understand complete and extended conversations, but I'm further than I was only a few months ago.

My Thai-speak and Thai-write education is on a 3-5 year timetable. Hopefully at the halfway point I will be semi-fluent and then later on fluent in all aspects of reading and writing.

Regards,

Spee

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Learning the thai language is probably a big mistake. Once you start understanding what the wonderful Thai people really think of anyone non-thai the Land of Smiles becomes far less appealing!

[booma]

When I have spoken Thai well I have made many friends, when I have spoken It badly (usually after a few beers) I have made enemies!

Some places thay have been amazed to hear a farang speak their language, other places they would rather you didn't.

All put aside I love trying to learn it, I see it as a challenge, and generally it will make your visit a better experience.

I have met many people who refuse to even learn the most basic words (thank you, hello etc) because thay are on holiday and see this as work, this is a very bad attitude in my book.

Learning can be fun, especiallly learning Thai in LoS!

B

[chanchao]

> Learning the thai language is probably a big mistake. Once you start

> understanding what the wonderful Thai people really think of anyone

> non-thai the Land of Smiles becomes far less appealing!

I think it may be just you.

> Some places thay have been amazed to hear a farang speak their

> language, other places they would rather you didn't.

Really? Like, where would they not want you to speak Thai?? (Assuming you're proficient enough) ?

Totally agree that learning is fun!! After all it involves loads of interaction and conversation with random Thais to get really fluent.

Cheers,

Chanchao

[Richard Hall]

      Learning the thai language is probably a big mistake. Once you start understanding what the wonderful Thai people really think of anyone non-thai the Land of Smiles becomes far less appealing!

I understand basically everything a Thai person says to me, a non-thai, in Thai and actually I'm very appealed by the interesting conversations deriving herefrom.

Not knowledge but rather ignorance causes problems.

There ain't actually no cons for learning a language and/or broadening the own knowledge in any respect but just excuses to cover up idleness. Just realizing this is already the important initial step towards the right direction.

Happy learning.

Richard

[Diggerbasher]

I'm afraid i've been hear 11 years and speak very little basically because i'm lazy and a tonal language takes so much practise.

[bina]

does anybody notice though that after a certain hour, your language skills disappear... also, the more u speak the faster 'they' speak assuming you are fluent and then disaster strikes...

happened yesterday... new workers arrived, long timers like to show me off so speak to me in thai to show 'puut passa thai issan' , new comer jabbered at me and it was after 21:00, and all i could stammer was, alai??? mai how jai??? puut alai??? my thai totally disappeared!!!!

plus, they like to test me in front of new friends visiting from other kibbutzim etc: aloy mai?? saap?? over and over, just to hear me answer .... a million times...

[Diggerbasher]

When i am in a converstaion with a Thai and ask them to speak slowly and use short words they only do so for a short time and then babble at full speed with obtuse words.

[aughie]

Second that recommendation as the "sister" site thai-language.com has gone down.

Boon Mee

it's up

[Khutan]

When i am in a converstaion with a Thai and ask them to speak slowly and use short words they only do so for a short time and then babble at full speed with obtuse words.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So So true.

I find it strange the more Thai I learn the more "esoteric" the conversation between Thais becomes in the office. I tried some of the words I heard at home with my wife only to be laughed at... Where did you hear that.... Those words are very old and people don't say them any more.... You will sound stupid talking like that.

[aletta]

I think my difficulty in learning Thai must have something to do with my advancing years.It's hard to remember a name or two,let alone a huge vocabulary.

[Thaiboxer]

Learning Thai; speaking, listening, reading and writing is something any long-term or permanent resident such as myself should learn. The good thing about Thai is that the grammar is very simple..no tenses or plurals and it is also more phonetic than English. Once you learn the various reading tricks..consonants, vowels and tones you can figure out how to say just about any word or phrase. Slang and expressions will soon follow. For a lot of expats, perhaps the biggest hurdle is laziness...many folks are lazy when it comes to other languages and particularly if their native language is English (the international language). When it comes to learning foreign languages, the Americans (like me) fall way behind many other countries. Many Europeans and Asians can speak a second, third or even fourth language by the time they're adults.

[Neeranam]

I say stop making excuses and go for it!

Very true about making excuses. I know a guy who has been here for 40 odd years and can't speak a word of Thai saying that jhe can't because he can't hear the tones. Strange thing is that he speaks about 7 languages, none of them Asian.

Excuses, excuses. I was full of them for my first 3 years in Thailand, then started to get embarrassed not being able to say a sentence. "Bia Sing kuat eeg neung" was my most fluent phrase.

For me learning was hard to start with. I never went to any classes, but wish I did.

If you have the time and money do it.

IMO there are no dis-advantages to learning Thai.

[Neeranam]

The good thing about Thai is that the grammar is very simple..no tenses or plurals

I would go to the Thai languge section and you might find that Thai has tenses, and plurals are perhaps more complex than English, due to classifiers.

For example 2 fried eggs - "kai dtao song fong"

Thai has present, future, continuous, perfect and more tenses.

Edited March 11, 2005 by Neeranam

[toastwars]

Learning Thai; speaking, listening, reading and writing is something any long-term or permanent resident such as myself should learn. The good thing about Thai is that the grammar is very simple..no tenses or plurals and it is also more phonetic than English. Once you learn the various reading tricks..consonants, vowels and tones you can figure out how to say just about any word or phrase. Slang and expressions will soon follow. For a lot of expats, perhaps the biggest hurdle is laziness...many folks are lazy when it comes to other languages and particularly if their native language is English (the international language). When it comes to learning foreign languages, the Americans (like me) fall way behind many other countries. Many Europeans and Asians can speak a second, third or even fourth language by the time they're adults.

How come you never post on the Thai language forum?

Lazy..or just not willing to share your tricks?

[BaanOz]

Jumping to the end of this thread without reading much, my Thai wife has said she doesn't want to teach me Thai.

Why? ...because she has heard our falang friends speak fluent Thai with a female style/accent. They have been taught by a female and sound &lt;deleted&gt; stupid (my wifes words!).

If you are male and want to learn Thai, get taught from a male teacher.

Cheers BaanOz

[toastwars]

Jumping to the end of this thread without reading much, my Thai wife has said she doesn't want to teach me Thai.

Why? ...because she has heard our falang friends speak fluent Thai with a female style/accent. They have been taught by a female and sound &lt;deleted&gt; stupid (my wifes words!).

If you are male and want to learn Thai, get taught from a male teacher.

Cheers BaanOz

Why does she not just correct them and teach you Thai in the correct way?

I find the best way to build vocabulary is to have a blackboard or white board in a prominent place and I use a revolving system, three words added daily, which I try to get into a conversation I find that working in unusual words is a good way of remembering them, due to the effort it takes to steer the conversation. once you have got them in a few times you tend not to forget them, once the word is mastered take it off the board and add a new one. There are some words that have been sat on my board for a while but that in itself is a good memory aid, I remember them because they have been stuck there for ages. those awkward ones that all people have and can never seem to remember (for me it is months) can be left on semi permantly, I find myself getting lazy sometimes so I just wipe the lot and spend an hour or so putting up a whole set of new interesting words to learn.

[Thaiboxer]

How come you never post on the Thai language forum?

Lazy..or just not willing to share your tricks?

Just not willing to share them with you Toasty! Just joking.

I usually don't visit the language forum but perhaps I should...I know a few tricks for remembering words/phrases but there are so many more to learn. The grammar stuff mentioned by Neeranam is new to me...perhaps Thai isn't as simple as I once thought. Still,I think the tones are the toughest part. With different intonation, the word "mai" can be used enough times to say: "New wood doesn't burn, does it?" Learning a few words daily is always a plus.

Speaking of tricks I know, here are two:

1.) Association...learned this one from my Spanish teacher in high school. Associating certain things with certain letters/words helps me to remember my Thai. King Ramkamhaeng designed the consonants in the Thai alphabet so that many are similar in shape. "Dor dek" and "Dto' Dtao" are identical except for the little notch in the top of "Dto Dtao". If you can remember one, it's not hard to remember the other one. For words, take "maa" and "maa'". The high tone is the horse and the rising tone is the dog. The horse stands higher than the dog, so that's how you know which "maa" to say.

2.) Writing...simply writing lines of what you need to remember; over and over and over again. Time consuming I know, but it's the same method I used to go from nearly an "F" to a "B" in Spanish II in one semester. Despite not having studied high school Spanish for nearly 12 years, I can still remember some of those Spanish vocab words and rules very clearly.

With the Thai alphabet being more difficult to write than English, the second method I mentioned would be even more time consuming but may help some people.

[Khun Ngo]

So So true.

I find it strange the more Thai I learn the more "esoteric" the conversation between Thais becomes in the office. I tried some of the words I heard at home with my wife only to be laughed at... Where did you hear that.... Those words are very old and people don't say them any more.... You will sound stupid talking like that.

Interesting, they make some efforts to "close you out". What might be the reason for

this? Do they perceive it as a threat you leraning "their" language?

[Neeranam]

I find the best way to build vocabulary is to have a blackboard or white board in a prominent place and I use a revolving system, three words added daily, which I try to get into a conversation I find that working in unusual words is a good way of remembering them, due to the effort it takes to steer the conversation. once you have got them in a few times you tend not to forget them, once the word is mastered take it off the board and add a new one. There are some words that have been sat on my board for a while but that in itself is a good memory aid, I remember them because they have been stuck there for ages. those awkward ones that all people have and can never seem to remember (for me it is months) can be left on semi permantly, I find myself getting lazy sometimes so I just wipe the lot and spend an hour or so putting up a whole set of new interesting words to learn.

I have never tried that, Toastwars, thanks for the tip!

[Khun Larry]

Earnest advice and experiences will be very much appreciated.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is no reason for a geazer in CM to learn Thai, and there is also no reason not to.

[Neeranam]

There is no reason for a geazer in CM to learn Thai, and there is also no reason not to.

When I was in CM, there were quite a few Thai speakers. I could think of quite a few reasons to learn the language. I know a couple of guys up there who don't speak much Thai and rely on their wives being with them all the time. A bit of a burden IMHO, having the wife on tow all the time or staying within the confines of the tourist area. Learning Thai opens many doors for the expat in Thailand. There is no reason not to!

[bina]

the 'add a new word into conversation ' is great fun; best way to learn is through use... when understood i clap my hands like a small child and everyone is pleased

i could never never rely on someone else to speak for me; i love to talk.... (havent u all noticed by now...?)

the letters are not difficult but that could be cause i also can write in hebrew whichof course is not only different than english, but goes right to left and uses vowels only for primary school children than do away with them in newspapers and literature....j

gor kai has a 'bird shape' to it

etc etc... association is a great way and the maa horse maa dog is a good one since i mix them up all the time and i work with both (to the amusement of my worker when i do mix them up)

yes do move over to the lang. forum

[frenchFARANGbkk]

Is it true that english native people are famous for being lazy learning any language? I don't speak Thai well (nor english ;-) ), but at least I try! And I like it to be equal with Thai and be allowed to blame them about their english ability: I also had to learn it, Dad and Mom were not speaking english at home!!!