Refusing to recognise the validity of newly issued UK passports

[chrisartist]

For what it is worth to you, I am not a british citize, but swedish!!! I just got my new passport lastweek ,and my

embassy ALWAYS enclose a letter addressed to the immigration, where they kindly ask the immigration to transfer

the stamps involved..

Maybe this is a polite thing to do, and you lack that polite document.... I dont know just wanted to be helpful,

and tell you about my situation.....

Glegolo

Same for US embassy. Just a letter with one space for consular officer to write in date of issue then sign and stamp it.

UK embassy has been neglecting to do letters for years unless you asked for it. It's even worse now with the mail in requirement.

Many topics about it on this forum.

Sorry, I'm not clear on the US position, from your post. Do they send an unsigned letter from the US Embassy when they send the passport? If so, whether the US citizen gets a letter or not, he still has to incur costs in terms of money, time, effort and inconvenience to take the letter to the consulate to be signed and stamped, and then to take it to Immigration. On the other hand, if the US Embassy sends a signed and stamped letter, I don't understand your post.

[chrisartist]

The recognition of a new passport for purposes of transferring an existing extension or visa valid for additional entry is a courtesy granted by Thai Immigration and is in no way obligated by any UN Convention on Human Rights or any other international agreement. That is why many Embassies and Consuls provide the letter as in the UK Embassy Letter referenced earlier wherein it states that "The British Embassy would be most grateful if ..."

The Thai Immigration persons could just as well say:

"Upon getting a new passport and your old passport now being invalid, any existing visas and/or extensions in your old passport are now also invalid. Have a nice day."

Suppose we accept your point. There is then no point in having a standardised worldwide system for travel documents (i.e. the passport system).

We will see what the UK Head of Consulate in Bangkok does when she receives my letter (which will, by the way, have been vetted by a former FCO official before I send the final version.)

[JLCrab]

Maybe, as per post #1 that the CM officer only wanted to see a receipt for the new passport or the mystery letter, maybe she will tell you to just show them the damn receipt.

Again, as in the letter, the Embassy itself considers the transfer of extensions or visa still valid for entry to be a courtesy; not something Thai Immigration is obligated to do.

[ubonjoe]

For what it is worth to you, I am not a british citize, but swedish!!! I just got my new passport lastweek ,and my

embassy ALWAYS enclose a letter addressed to the immigration, where they kindly ask the immigration to transfer

the stamps involved..

Maybe this is a polite thing to do, and you lack that polite document.... I dont know just wanted to be helpful,

and tell you about my situation.....

Glegolo

Same for US embassy. Just a letter with one space for consular officer to write in date of issue then sign and stamp it.

UK embassy has been neglecting to do letters for years unless you asked for it. It's even worse now with the mail in requirement.

Many topics about it on this forum.

Sorry, I'm not clear on the US position, from your post. Do they send an unsigned letter from the US Embassy when they send the passport? If so, whether the US citizen gets a letter or not, he still has to incur costs in terms of money, time, effort and inconvenience to take the letter to the consulate to be signed and stamped, and then to take it to Immigration. On the other hand, if the US Embassy sends a signed and stamped letter, I don't understand your post.

The US embassy handles everything from accepting application, collecting the fee and sending it to you or handing it to you if you choose to pick it up after it arrives at embassy. They will do letter and put it with passport when done by EMS or hand it to you with passport. Edited September 6, 2013 by ubonjoe

[evadgib]

The recognition of a new passport for purposes of transferring an existing extension or visa valid for additional entry is a courtesy granted by Thai Immigration and is in no way obligated by any UN Convention on Human Rights or any other international agreement. That is why many Embassies and Consuls provide the letter as in the UK Embassy Letter referenced earlier wherein it states that "The British Embassy would be most grateful if ..."

The Thai Immigration persons could just as well say:

"Upon getting a new passport and your old passport now being invalid, any existing visas and/or extensions in your old passport are now also invalid. Have a nice day."

Suppose we accept your point. There is then no point in having a standardised worldwide system for travel documents (i.e. the passport system).

We will see what the UK Head of Consulate in Bangkok does when she receives my letter (which will, by the way, have been vetted by a former FCO official before I send the final version.)

With Passports being a Home Office responsibility your letter will be about as effective as a complaint to Burger King re a Big Mac.

Edited September 6, 2013 by evadgib

[chrisartist]

The recognition of a new passport for purposes of transferring an existing extension or visa valid for additional entry is a courtesy granted by Thai Immigration and is in no way obligated by any UN Convention on Human Rights or any other international agreement. That is why many Embassies and Consuls provide the letter as in the UK Embassy Letter referenced earlier wherein it states that "The British Embassy would be most grateful if ..."

The Thai Immigration persons could just as well say:

"Upon getting a new passport and your old passport now being invalid, any existing visas and/or extensions in your old passport are now also invalid. Have a nice day."

Suppose we accept your point. There is then no point in having a standardised worldwide system for travel documents (i.e. the passport system).

We will see what the UK Head of Consulate in Bangkok does when she receives my letter (which will, by the way, have been vetted by a former FCO official before I send the final version.)

With Passports being a Home Office responsibility your letter will be about as effective as a complaint to Burger King re a Big Mac.

The issuing of passports is a Home Office responsibility. Whether or not they are recognised is an FCO matter.

On pursuing this thread, I have been astonished at how many people think they can solve an empirical problem by a priori armchair theorising. We will see how effective the letter is once I've sent it, won't we?

Think "Can do", people! If you don't try, you cannot succeed. Perhaps that's why so many people don't succeed. They convince themselves that they won't succeed without even trying.

[JLCrab]

As mentioned in Post #1, the Immigration Official in Chiang Mai requested to be presented with either a Letter from the UK passport issuing authority OR an invoice for the new passport in question. As may be inferred from the wording of the letter as issued by the UK Consulate in Bangkok and as appears in Post #8 of this topic, heretofore this seems to be considered by the UK officials to be a reasonable enough request by the Thai Immigration officials.

Maybe they will, upon presentation of a letter to the UK authorities advising them that such a request is unreasonable maybe under international convention or bilateral agreements between the UK and The Kingdom, they will change their mind and petition the Thai Immigration authorities for a new policy on procedures for transference of visas still valid for travel or extensions of stay to a new passport; maybe not. Stay tuned.

[SICHONSTEVE]

The recognition of a new passport for purposes of transferring an existing extension or visa valid for additional entry is a courtesy granted by Thai Immigration and is in no way obligated by any UN Convention on Human Rights or any other international agreement. That is why many Embassies and Consuls provide the letter as in the UK Embassy Letter referenced earlier wherein it states that "The British Embassy would be most grateful if ..."

The Thai Immigration persons could just as well say:

"Upon getting a new passport and your old passport now being invalid, any existing visas and/or extensions in your old passport are now also invalid. Have a nice day."

Suppose we accept your point. There is then no point in having a standardised worldwide system for travel documents (i.e. the passport system).

We will see what the UK Head of Consulate in Bangkok does when she receives my letter (which will, by the way, have been vetted by a former FCO official before I send the final version.)

With Passports being a Home Office responsibility your letter will be about as effective as a complaint to Burger King re a Big Mac.

The issuing of passports is a Home Office responsibility. Whether or not they are recognised is an FCO matter.

On pursuing this thread, I have been astonished at how many people think they can solve an empirical problem by a priori armchair theorising. We will see how effective the letter is once I've sent it, won't we?

Think "Can do", people! If you don't try, you cannot succeed. Perhaps that's why so many people don't succeed. They convince themselves that they won't succeed without even trying.

What are you like!!!

You have a problem, you receive over 100 replies in trying to help and advise you and then say that only you know what you are talking about and we are ignorant and unsuccessful losers!!

If you are so bloody clever then why did you post this and then attempt to ridicule everyone else who had the decency to try and help you - pratt!!!

[1kate1]

I am amazed at all the problems people are having presenting new British passports...I have just renewed mine.....had visa stamps transferred.....no letter.....no cost......no problem.

Sometimes I wonder if it is the appearance of people or the attitude they have when going to immigration may creates issues......

[KittenKong]

I am amazed at all the problems people are having presenting new British passports...I have just renewed mine.....had visa stamps transferred.....no letter.....no cost......no problem.

Sometimes I wonder if it is the appearance of people or the attitude they have when going to immigration may creates issues......

I also had no problem or cost involved with getting my details transferred to a new passport, as I described. My appearance is that of a pretty standard Pattaya retiree in shorts and a tshirt though I dont have the shaven bullet head and multiple tattoos that are also common here.

But that was in the Jomtien office which is generally recognised as being one of the easier places to get paperwork done. Other offices can be much more picky, I think.

[chrisartist]

They want you to provide a receipt so do that. You received a receipt from Hong Kong via Dhl. You also have your old passport.. can't see a problem.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

Whether or not I have a receipt does not address the principled problem. However, as it happens, I do not have a receipt. When UK citizens apply for a new passport, they are asked whether or not they would like a receipt. They are also told that they will need to pay for the cost of having it couriered to them under separate cover from their passport. Not wishing to incur unnecessary expense (and, due to the fact that it is not posted anywhere by any official, Thai or UK, that having a receipt might be necessary to meet the requirements of the TIP), I declned their kind offer.

[chrisartist]

Same thing happened in Bangkok.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/635134-guarantee-letter-from-uk-embassy-with-new-passport/

It is all academic anyway since the validity of the extension of stay ends with the validity of your passport.

No transfer of Extensions from your old to your new passport.

NEW RULES!

Not quite all academic. Suppose that one's passport expires in February 2014, and that one gets one's extension in May 2013, but the passport does not in May 2013 contain sufficient free pages to allow one to get a re-entry permit and travel. One will then get a new passport, approximately eight months before one's passport expires and before (under the new rules) the extension expires.

[chrisartist]

Just to clarify: the issue is not simply one of requiring that the consular section of a foreign country politely ask the Thai Immigration Police to kindly transfer stamps to a new passport that the Thai Immigration Police already recognise as valid. it is that the Thai Immigration Police are requiring such a letter (or a receipt for payment) because they *do not* recognise the validity of the passport. This came across very clearly in a discussion that I had with an Immigration Officer last week: his rationale was that without external validation, they do not know whether or not a passport is valid, so they do not recognise it as such.

This is a diplomatic matter that has to be resolved between the Thai authorities and the authorities of foreign countries. It is not a matter to be addressed in a feedback from to the people who make the passports. Such forms are for matters of procedure, not foreign relations.

So the Immigration Police admit that they cannot recognise a false passport. Why am I not surprised?

Yes, this is correct. The Thai Immigration Police admit that they cannot identify a false passport and they cannot identify a valid passport.

[chrisartist]

For what it is worth to you, I am not a british citize, but swedish!!! I just got my new passport lastweek ,and my

embassy ALWAYS enclose a letter addressed to the immigration, where they kindly ask the immigration to transfer

the stamps involved..

Maybe this is a polite thing to do, and you lack that polite document.... I dont know just wanted to be helpful,

and tell you about my situation.....

Glegolo

The UK authorities do not enclose such a document when they send new passports. The Swedish government would seem to take its responsibilities towards its citizens seriously. The solution you cite is one of a number that I had determined to include in my letter. Thanks for your helpful comment.

Hi, I am a UK citizen and although i have never had the need to do this, i havre always found UK Thai consulate to be helpful. I think an email to them requesting a letter meeting your requirements might help before alienating the Thai authorities by kicking up a fuss. You know the score here (or maybe you don't) but generally the harder you play, the harder they play back. Just try and keep it simple mate and try not to cause yourself any trouble. Last thing you want is somebody deciding to put a black mark on your immigration file for Thailand and it could very easily happen if you alienate them......or it could cost you a lot of money.

Think wisely my friend and contact the place in UK where you got the passport from.

Good luck.

Lee

Thanks for your concern. I'm not going to kick up a fuss. I'm going to keep a low profile. I will get a letter from the British Consulate in Chiang Mai. However, I will also write to the Head of Consulate in Bangkok, informing them of the problem, specifying various consequences and implications, and suggesting a variety of ways in which the matter can be resolved. The consular staff will them do as they see fit, having considered the matter in the context of Anglo-Thai relations in general.

[chrisartist]

I had my visas transferred from Old UK passport to New UK passport last week with no letter and with no problems all I had to do was cut the corners of the old passport in front of the officer........no cost either....my visa is valid until end Jan 2014.....my passport would have expired Dec 2013.

Which regional office of the TIP was this at?

[chrisartist]

Thanks very much for your input, everybody. I have collected the data. The offices of the TIP in Bangkok and Chiang Mai would seem to be the main culprits, though, of course, we do not have information for every office. It was useful to learn that citizens of Belgium, Canada, Germany, Sweden and the USA receive letters of certification automatically. I surmise that these countries adopted such a solution as a necessary evil to avoid raising the matter with Thai officials, which would likely provoke a less than mature response. I am currently drafting a letter. I will report if and when I receive a response from the UK Consulate in Bangkok.

[mfharrison]

I just recently received a new passport(uk) and I've been searching the Internet trying to find out what I need to do to transfer visas across. I found out that I needed to get a letter from the uk embassy as mentioned previously. I wrote a polite e-mail asking if they could provide this letter. They originally refused to do it via post or email but after I responded with another polite email explaining that I couldn't leave work on a weekday and that Bangkok is very far away they responded in a positive manner and I have received the letter in the post today i just had to send them copies of both passports and my current visa.I will be going to transfer my stamps in the next day or 2 so ill let you know the outcome. I believe I only need this document and my passports if anybody knows anymore I would like to know

Thank you

[lopburi3]

You will also need copies of old passport data page/visa/extension/stay stamp and TM6 departure card and new passport data page.

[mfharrison]

Thanks very much Lopburi I should have known a copy of everything is always handy

Thanks again