Please help me understand Thai house electricals...

[krisb]

Ok, I need help understanding what I need to get our house wired up lights, powerpoints and anything else we may need.

Thing is, Im in the dark and pretty clueless when it comes to this, especially in Thailand.

So can someone here please help us and break it down into lamens, easy to understand pointers for us. Some things that come to mind are...

Whats up with not using 3 plug power points?

Where do I find a good sparky to hire in/near KK?

Should a sparky be liscensed?

Where do I buy quality switches and points?

What sort of prices to wire up a 300sq/m house approx?

Anyhow, you get the picture, Im clueless as they come!...please help!

Thanks guys.

[Lite Beer]

Most Thai houses are not earthed so you will not see 3 pin sockets.

Our house had the earth wire from the electric shower heaters going into the roof and going nowhere.

[transam]

All modern builds now must be earthed. You can buy 3 pin earthed outlets/sockets anywhere. Built my place 6 years ago, all earthed sockets. Even have earth on light/fan fittings. Anything you buy with no earth you can earth with a piece of wire to a 3 pin plug which you can buy.

[Neeranam]

Good question, I'm confused too. My house has all 3 pin sockets but my my wife is convinced they aren't earthed. Just because there are 3 holes doesn't mean there is an earth, does it? I suppose I'd better open one up and see but anything to with electricity scares me as I've been shocked a few times.

We have some appliances earthed using the copper tube bought from 'Do Home' in Khon Kaen.

krisb, I'm looking for a good sparky too, if I find one I'll let you know.

I see tradesmen advertised on a board outside Thai Watsadu. Homepro are very good for explaining things and you can buy sickets and stuff at any of the home stores I think.

[HAL9000]

You can use a circuit tester to see if your 3 prong outlet is grounded or not. Many modern surge protectors also have an indicator.

[Torrens54]

Three Pin plugs are now available and some even have an OFF and ON Switch so you don't have to risk Zapping yourself every time you push in or pull out a plug.

We thought we had a good electrician but seems he was only interested when we had a Major re-wiring of the house done, which I now hope he did a good job on as we have a couple of little jobs for him and he has been TOO Busy for the past couple of months.

Suggest if you have a lot of work done, hold back on the FINAL Payment till you have checked EVERY SINGLE Aspect of the work.

[krisb]

Ok, dumb ?, so do they use circuit breakers in Thailand?

[krisb]

Three Pin plugs are now available and some even have an OFF and ON Switch so you don't have to risk Zapping yourself every time you push in or pull out a plug.

 

We thought we had a good electrician but seems he was only interested when we had a Major re-wiring of the house done, which I now hope he did a good job on as we have a couple of little jobs for him and he has been TOO Busy for the past couple of months.

 

Suggest if you have a lot of work done, hold back on the FINAL Payment till you have checked EVERY SINGLE Aspect of the work.

Good idea, but..how do I check his work when I don't know myself?

Should I fly an electrician in from Australia? As silly as that may sound, I'd rather pay the money than get electrocuted.

[David48]

Ok, dumb ?, so do they use circuit breakers in Thailand?

Hi the krisb ... as you know, I'm a sparkie, though haven't worked in the trade for 30 years.

In Australia, they do a couple of things differently.

Firstly, they earth the Neutral Bar in the meter box so that you know that your Neutral is always earthed.

Secondly, every light fitting is earthed because many of us used to use the wiring for the central bedroom light and wack a ceiling fan in ... thus a metal fan has to be earthed.

... In Australia.

In Thailand you can buy the Clipsal made switched 3 pin double GPO ... http://www.directtoshop.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/en/directtoshop/electrical/switches---plugs/double-sockets-clipsal-p2725

All their stuff here ... http://www.directtoshop.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/en/directtoshop/electrical

BTW, I've never set foot in their store, nor recommending it ... just wanted a visual guide to show the gf.

Also, you can have fitted what we call an ELCB (Earth Leakage Circuit Breaker) which basically works on the principle of, if you are getting zapped, the thing automatically shuts off all the power on that circuit.

I involuntary tested that device one time by being half awake one morning to forgetting to turn off the power at the wall to the toaster with the bread buring in it and with the metal knife tried to unsick the toast, touching the glowing element with the metal knife ...

With the ELCB that I'm used to working with, only that one power circuit that it was connected to would 'trip' ... but I don't know about the ones they use in Thailand.

As for circuit breakers ... don't think they will save your life!

A circuit breaker might be a 10 amp (ampere) type and designed to trip on a current over that amount.

However, a current over 30 milli-amps could kill you.

Remember my fridge story from http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/659058-tales-from-the-farm/

Mate, as for the cost of wiring ... I have no idea because I've never 'wired' a house over here.

Wired to your standard would be more expensive then to what would be accepted by say a Thai Family.

As the other poster mentioned ... you can have the Earth wire connected into the back of all the GPOs ... and connected to the 'sky wire' ... as those copper earths are so darn expensive.

Plus, as for the cost, do you want the wire chased into the brickwork, or exposed on the wall, then disappearing into the back of the switch like a Thai would have done ... all comes down to money.

I certainly would be checking visually and with a circuit tester or multi-meter the electrical connections.

You are up Issan way? Sometimes the ground dries out and there is not an effective earth.

I read somewhere about placing the earth spike near the effluent outlet as that area is usually moist.

4.40am here, I'm back to sleep ... hopefully.

[RPCVguy]

Wiring was one of the few "below spec" parts of our home's construction. You ask of ground-wires so I'll focus there. The 3-pin boxes were all bought at Global House, and we watched that each box was connected to ground. What we learned later was that the electrician jumpered the wires for the current to both sockets on each box - but just ignored jumpering the ground wire. (??)
It IS an ongoing problem. Most of the 3-prong extension cords sold in markets ONLY have a hole in the plastic to allow the third plug to fit, BUT HAVE NO WIRING beneath the 3rd hole!

... and that is just one of the issues found in the installed wiring.

[Arkady]

I'm not an electrician and this field seems to be a nightmare for the unwary. A common problem seems to be that electricians find the main breaker unit inconvenient because it keeps tripping out due to something they've done and override it or set it to a level at which it won't protect you from anything. An electrician found that had been done in my house and others have reported the same thing on TV. There doesn't seem any kind of licensing or apprenticeship system. Most of them learn from going out to jobs with an unqualified father or uncle. Most of the "earthed" houses probably just put in 3 pin plug sockets to look good. Anyway, even UK firms like Tesco are selling cheap electrical appliances imported from China with 2 pin plugs or worse still a 3 pin plug with nothing connected to the earth pin. There are a few decent electricians that have studied at technical college but most of the ones working on small jobs are the old school type. Caveat emptor.

[Crossy]

Some good points made above.

To answer our OP:

"What's up with not using 3 plug power points?"
There's nothing inherently hazardous about a 2-pin system, just because there's no ground doesn't mean you're going to die. Many, many modern appliances are Class-2 (double insulated) and do not require a ground in order to be safe, they invariably have 2-pin plugs and usually, plastic casework.

The above is true UNTIL someone plugs in an appliance that requires a ground (Class-1), these usually have metal casework and will invariably have a 3-pin plug. Example of Class-1 appliances are, washing machines, microwaves, water heaters, air-conditioners and your desktop computer. Plug in a Class-1 appliance without a ground and all bets are off (desktop computers particularly, can bite if operated ungrounded).

As has been noted earlier all new installations must have grounded 3-pin outlets and be protected by an RCD (earth leakage protection). The electrical inspector may refuse to certify your system if it doesn't meet these minimum requirements, this will mean you're stuck on a temporary supply and paying double for your power.

This PEA document has some very good information for your sparks http://www.crossy.co.uk/Handy%20Files/groundwire.pdf notice how the incoming neutral is routed via the ground bar, this is the standard Thai means of implementing MEN your inspector will be looking for this configuration and may fail the installation if it's not done exactly like the diagrams. Incidentally, this is the same configuration as the US NEC requires.

"Where do I find a good sparky to hire in/near KK?"
Sorry can't help there

"Should a sparky be liscensed?"
In Thailand? I don't believe there is any form of licensing system in place (at least not for domestic sparkies)

"Where do I buy quality switches and points?"
Any of the big name DIY retailers (Homepro, Homeworks, Boonthavorn etc) and there are a multitude of electrical specialist shops, have a look around

"What sort of prices to wire up a 300sq/m house approx?"
Sorry can't help there, our sparks (we used up four) was included in the cost of the build

[keeniau96]

Thailand has building/electrical standards. They also have sensible traffic laws. Both are generally ignored.

My wife's family has a several building contractors making houses for farangs, consequently they have several good electrical subcontractors who do indeed do a proper job of 3-wire installations with (mostly) correct connections and proper grounding. You need to check the wiring as it is being done and use the handy little testing device that flashes for improper ground or reversed polarity. If you are totally ignorant of such then best to get a friend/acquaintance over for several days to check the wiring upon completion. It is almost a certainty that there will be numerous errors found, most very easily corrected. Hold back the final payment until all is OK.

The architect for the house needs to provide a separate sheet of electrical for every floor. Look this over carefully that it makes sense for location of switches and has many, many jacks for plugging electrical devices; Thais often have 1/room, think 1/wall is more than enough, it is not. Kitchen should have them at appliance level and about every 2-ft, don't forget the hood fan. Outlet by the bathroom mirror also vanity light over mirror). Really pore over this one with your wife/GF.

Agree on several principles before the job is started: 3-wire wiring throughout (they will argue that it's not needed for lighting circuits, do it anyway); use wire nuts for connecting wires (Thais use electrical tape); main grounding will be to a 2-m rod (copper is best) pounded vertically into ground (best to be kept damp).

There is an excellent book "Black & Decker Complete Guide to Wiring, 5th edition".

[John_Betong]

Can someone explain why a tiny flash and small bang occurs whenever an appliance is inserted into a socket?

This even applies to a mobile telephone charger!

I have visited numerous countries and this is the first time it has ever happened.

Edited September 3, 2013 by John_Betong

[jackflash]

> Can someone explain why a tiny flash and small bang occurs whenever an appliance is inserted into a socket?

Two parts to the answer:

(1) The appliance is being plugged into a live socket (there is probably no switch available to switch it off).

(2) The appliance has a capacitor on the input (is probably a switch-mode device). When you first plug it in there is an inrush of current while the capacitor charges.

You can buy a little adapter with a light and a switch so you can isolate the mains before plugging in the appliance.

Edited September 3, 2013 by jackflash

[Crossy]

Jackflash is correct.

I'll add to his comment that if you plug a similar device into a live outlet anywhere the splat will still occur, but in, say, the UK you will not see it due to the design of the UK outlet (they have switches too nowadays).

With a switched outlet the splat still occurs, just inside the switch where you can't see it.

There is no significant hazard from this phenomenon, it's just a bit unnerving.

[khunPer]

1) Whats up with not using 3 plug power points?

You will need earth in the house. If you anyway rewire, that will not be a huge problem to solve. In Thailand they will normally use three long copper spikes for earth, whilst in Europe we may use only one spike.

2) Where do I find a good sparky to hire in/near KK?

?

3) Should a sparky be liscensed?

I don't think they need to, but seems like proper electricians knows very well what they are doing.

4) Where do I buy quality switches and points?

Home Pro has a nice selection of good quality electric accessories. Most Thai electricians seems to chose Panasonic. I used Häco, when I build my house.

5) What sort of prices to wire up a 300sq/m house approx?

It will depend of how advanced you make the system and what materials you expect the electrician to supply (pipes, joints, cables & wires, outlets & fixed lamps, breakers & fuses etc.). I would believe anything between 50k and 150 k baht.

I did about 350 m2 + outdoor with a bit advanced 3-phase installation. I bought all outlets (plus & switches) and all lamps. The electrician supplied everything else. I took three quotes and choose the one, who seemed to understand the system and me, the best (one backed out, as it was too complicated). Complete detailed drawings and no changes made to the drawings. I paid 196k (edit: four years ago) and got a very nice and well functioned electric work done.

Edited September 3, 2013 by khunPer

[nosatisfaction]

Most Thai houses are not earthed so you will not see 3 pin sockets.

Our house had the earth wire from the electric shower heaters going into the roof and going nowhere.

this not the earth connection, it is the device that makes sure you get the lightning inside555555555

[Rigs]

You can do your own earthing with a ground spike and just run a wire back to the appliance. Ie. washing machine attach the earth wire to the machines cabinet earth wire. You don't need an earth wire for lighting.

[Torrens54]

Three Pin plugs are now available and some even have an OFF and ON Switch so you don't have to risk Zapping yourself every time you push in or pull out a plug.

We thought we had a good electrician but seems he was only interested when we had a Major re-wiring of the house done, which I now hope he did a good job on as we have a couple of little jobs for him and he has been TOO Busy for the past couple of months.

Suggest if you have a lot of work done, hold back on the FINAL Payment till you have checked EVERY SINGLE Aspect of the work.

Good idea, but..how do I check his work when I don't know myself?

Should I fly an electrician in from Australia? As silly as that may sound, I'd rather pay the money than get electrocuted.

Yep, I know what you're saying and I'm still trying to find someone who has genuine qualifications here but that seems an "impossible dream."

[Joe Mamma]

Just redid the wiring of a friends large resort and home. Use a larger good quality breaker box with RCD and a grounding connection that is wired to a 5 foot copper rod that is buried in the earth it's whole length.

Use one size larger gauge wire and 3 prong good quality(Panasonic) ac outlets. One breaker box per every 2 rooms is good. Home Pro, Thai Watsadu, all have good stuff. Don't forget your emergency lights and battery backup for all the Thai blackouts ahead.

[Rorri]

Ok, dumb ?, so do they use circuit breakers in Thailand?

Hi the krisb ... as you know, I'm a sparkie, though haven't worked in the trade for 30 years.

In Australia, they do a couple of things differently.

Firstly, they earth the Neutral Bar in the meter box so that you know that your Neutral is always earthed.

Secondly, every light fitting is earthed because many of us used to use the wiring for the central bedroom light and wack a ceiling fan in ... thus a metal fan has to be earthed.

... In Australia.

In Thailand you can buy the Clipsal made switched 3 pin double GPO ... http://www.directtoshop.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/en/directtoshop/electrical/switches---plugs/double-sockets-clipsal-p2725

All their stuff here ... http://www.directtoshop.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/en/directtoshop/electrical

BTW, I've never set foot in their store, nor recommending it ... just wanted a visual guide to show the gf.

Also, you can have fitted what we call an ELCB (Earth Leakage Circuit Breaker) which basically works on the principle of, if you are getting zapped, the thing automatically shuts off all the power on that circuit.

I involuntary tested that device one time by being half awake one morning to forgetting to turn off the power at the wall to the toaster with the bread buring in it and with the metal knife tried to unsick the toast, touching the glowing element with the metal knife ...

With the ELCB that I'm used to working with, only that one power circuit that it was connected to would 'trip' ... but I don't know about the ones they use in Thailand.

As for circuit breakers ... don't think they will save your life!

A circuit breaker might be a 10 amp (ampere) type and designed to trip on a current over that amount.

However, a current over 30 milli-amps could kill you.

Remember my fridge story from http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/659058-tales-from-the-farm/

Mate, as for the cost of wiring ... I have no idea because I've never 'wired' a house over here.

Wired to your standard would be more expensive then to what would be accepted by say a Thai Family.

As the other poster mentioned ... you can have the Earth wire connected into the back of all the GPOs ... and connected to the 'sky wire' ... as those copper earths are so darn expensive.

Plus, as for the cost, do you want the wire chased into the brickwork, or exposed on the wall, then disappearing into the back of the switch like a Thai would have done ... all comes down to money.

I certainly would be checking visually and with a circuit tester or multi-meter the electrical connections.

You are up Issan way? Sometimes the ground dries out and there is not an effective earth.

I read somewhere about placing the earth spike near the effluent outlet as that area is usually moist.

4.40am here, I'm back to sleep ... hopefully.

Not sure what part of Oz you are referring to, but most normal house light fittings, except fluros, do NOT have an earth connection. CB's certainly will NOT save your life, for that you WILL need an ELCB/RCD.

[Rorri]

Can someone explain why a tiny flash and small bang occurs whenever an appliance is inserted into a socket?

This even applies to a mobile telephone charger!

I have visited numerous countries and this is the first time it has ever happened.

That is an easy one, in most Thai houses there are no switches on the power outlets, therefore, when you plug is, a circuit made, drawing current hence the flash and pop, this is normal. Usually in western countries you do not see this, unless the room is dark, as it takes place in the switch.

[Isaantime]

Hi Chris I am in able to help if you can contact me

[krisb]

It's the only build issue I'm facing since I've organised the build myself. I always knew the electrical system was going to be a hurdle purely because it's Thailand. In Australia obviously it wouldn't be the case.

Crossy, your obviously in the know, is there electrical contractors in the KK phonebook? For that matter does Thailand even have a phonebook?

How do I find a competent electrician? Word of mouth? Surely in KK there must be a proper contractors office somewhere?

[krisb]

You can do your own earthing with a ground spike and just run a wire back to the appliance. Ie. washing machine attach the earth wire to the machines cabinet earth wire. You don't need an earth wire for lighting.

Gee that's a bit of a backyarder style. Not quite what I'm looking for.

[Docwho]

What you do is first go into the kitchen.

About a foot somewhere below the ceiling you will see a power outlet.

Then go to your local hardware store and buy roughly about a dozen Chinese made multi plug strips.

In England we call them extension leads.

Then plug the first one into the solitary power outlet in the kitchen (under the ceiling) and then "daisy chain" all the rest of the leads you have bought from the hardware store around the house by plugging them into each other, and hey presto !

Your house is now wired and ready to inhabit.

[Crossy]

A post providing misinformation and replies to it have been removed.

To correct what was said in that post:

Thailand uses a 3-phase 4-wire distribution system with a nominal Neutral-Phase voltage of 220V. The neutral is earthed at the transformer and (on new installations) at multiple points along the run (every 3rd pole or so) forming a MEN (Multiple earthed Neutral) system. A link between earth and neutral is also provided in the distribution box where the supply enters the premises.

Single phase installations are supplied from the neutral and one phase.

Both single and 3-phase meters are available as 15, 45 and 100 Amp variants, choose the supply and meter to suit your supply requirements.

[krisb]

Hi Chris I am in able to help if you can contact me

Sure, what can you offer me mate? By the sounds I'm not the only one looking so perhaps post here before any pm.

[krisb]

What you do is first go into the kitchen.

 

About a foot somewhere below the ceiling you will see a power outlet.

 

Then go to your local hardware store and buy roughly about a dozen Chinese made multi plug strips.

 

In England we call them extension leads.

 

Then plug the first one into the solitary power outlet in the kitchen (under the ceiling) and then "daisy chain" all the rest of the leads you have bought from the hardware store around the house by plugging them into each other, and hey presto !

Your house is now wired and ready to inhabit.

Thanks for your comedy.