Advice needed: Income in Thailand, whilst residing abroad ?!

[Thaibelg]

Hi Expats,

I’m going to throw it out here… I’m living and working for almost 8 years in Thailand.

My wife and I are considering to move back to my home country at some point and I’m planning to continue doing my job, but then from my home country (different location).

The plan is to hold my Workpermit under the company in Thailand and make sure that my Non-Immigrant B/re-entry Visa stays valid.

How does this work with the 90 days notice at immigration bureau? In the past 5 years, I really never had to do this in person, as my employer/HR department taking care of that. In Theory, I could just send my passport from my home country by registered mail to Thailand with documents attached for the 90 days notice.

Do you think this is possible or would they check my last departure stamp in my passport? Has anyone experience with this?

Is there any way around the 90 days notice?

Another question I have is regarding the min. amount of days, someone is required to stay/reside in Thailand, to be considered as a resident?

E.g. some countries in Europe have such a rule for residents and if they can prove you have resided in another country and not have resided (min. X days in the home country), they may change your status to become a tourist again…

Thank again for your help and advice on this.

Cheers,

TB

[ubonjoe]

The 90 day reports are not required if you are not in country for more than 90 days.

Why do you want to keep your work permit and extension of stay (it is not a visa) valid?

The only residency time here is for income tax purposes and that is a total of 180 days in a year.

[Thaibelg]

Hi UbonJoe,

Thanks for the advice pall.

You mention that residency time here is for income tax purposes, which is 180 days a year.

Does this mean 180 consecutive days? Are they really checking on this?

Thanks for letting me know.

Cheers,

TB

[ubonjoe]

The 180 total days (not consecutive) out of country would have be proven if you claimed it to avoid paying taxes.

[abrahamzvi]

Hi UbonJoe,

Thanks for the advice pall.

You mention that residency time here is for income tax purposes, which is 180 days a year.

Does this mean 180 consecutive days? Are they really checking on this?

Thanks for letting me know.

Cheers,

TB

One more remark. If you are not working in Thailand, nor for a Thai company, you are not required to pay tax. Or are you referring to other income, such as rents or dividends and/or interest? Here different rules apply.

[ubonjoe]

Rather than explaining here is link for page on revenue department website that will answer your questions. http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

[Nobbie49]

It's not that simple. You are considered resident for tax purposes if you reside more than 180 days in Th. You are then liable for tax on your worldwide income. Many people misinterpret this and think as long as they stay less that 180 days they can earn money in Th without being taxed. Wrong! You are taxable from the very first second you earn money in Th, no exceptions. Re the ww income: you will not be taxed on it if you do not bring the funds into the country. However, if this is remuneration as a result of activites in Th you will be taxed on it even if not brought into the country. Nhope this helps.

[hellodolly]

It's not that simple. You are considered resident for tax purposes if you reside more than 180 days in Th. You are then liable for tax on your worldwide income. Many people misinterpret this and think as long as they stay less that 180 days they can earn money in Th without being taxed. Wrong! You are taxable from the very first second you earn money in Th, no exceptions. Re the ww income: you will not be taxed on it if you do not bring the funds into the country. However, if this is remuneration as a result of activites in Th you will be taxed on it even if not brought into the country. Nhope this helps.

Are pensions from outside the country taxable. I have never been asked for it. I use the declared income form so they do know I have a fair amount coming in to the country every month. I give them the rteal figure even though it is far above the minimum needed.

[Nobbie49]

It's not that simple. You are considered resident for tax purposes if you reside more than 180 days in Th. You are then liable for tax on your worldwide income. Many people misinterpret this and think as long as they stay less that 180 days they can earn money in Th without being taxed. Wrong! You are taxable from the very first second you earn money in Th, no exceptions. Re the ww income: you will not be taxed on it if you do not bring the funds into the country. However, if this is remuneration as a result of activites in Th you will be taxed on it even if not brought into the country. Nhope this helps.

Are pensions from outside the country taxable. I have never been asked for it. I use the declared income form so they do know I have a fair amount coming in to the country every month. I give them the rteal figure even though it is far above the minimum needed.

Assuming your pension is taxed in the country of origin and assuming there is a double taxation agreement between your 2 countries, the answer is no.

[ubonjoe]

Not sure where you are getting your info from. You certainly are not getting it from link I posted.

Pensions are not taxable here.

[OJAS]

One more remark. If you are not working in Thailand, nor for a Thai company, you are not required to pay tax. Or are you referring to other income, such as rents or dividends and/or interest? Here different rules apply.

But presumably he would be liable to be taxed in his home country for income generated there?

[khunjerrybkk]

They check departure & arrival stamps in Chiang Mai each 90 day reporting cycle.

[malcoml]

What is his home country?

If he is residing in Australia he will be taxed on world wide income although Thailand and Australia have tax treaty.

Different countries have different rules.

[Nobbie49]

Same source as you. The revenue code does not state specifically that pension are not taxed it only mentions which sources of income are. After dealing for 20 years with the extorsionists aka the Thai Revenue Department i can tell you a tale or 2 about how they are masters at interpeting the code and twisting its rules to their advantage. My assumptions in my previous post were merely cautionery.

[OJAS]

What is his home country?

If he is residing in Australia he will be taxed on world wide income although Thailand and Australia have tax treaty.

Different countries have different rules.

Belgium would be my guess, based on his username.

[oldthaihand99]

Not sure where you are getting your info from. You certainly are not getting it from link I posted.

Pensions are not taxable here.

Pensions are taxable. It's right there in your link, twice:

1. "A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand."

2. "income by virtue of jobs, positions or services rendered;"

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

Moreover a double taxation treaty does not exempt one from Thai tax if they've paid tax already on that taxable income to their home country when the Thai tax rate exceeds that tax paid to the home country.

[lopburi3]

Moreover a double taxation treaty does not exempt one from Thai tax if they've paid tax already on that taxable income to their home country when the Thai tax rate exceeds that tax paid to the home country.

A tax treaty sets the criteria for tax payment and I do not recall any such provision in the US/Thai treaty.

[oldthaihand99]

Moreover a double taxation treaty does not exempt one from Thai tax if they've paid tax already on that taxable income to their home country when the Thai tax rate exceeds that tax paid to the home country.

A tax treaty sets the criteria for tax payment and I do not recall any such provision in the US/Thai treaty.

"The provisions of these tax treaties minimize or exempt certain types of income from taxation."

http://www.helplinelaw.com/law/thailand/taxation/taxation.php

"It appears that if I were to pay Thai taxes on my expected pension income, Thailand would

give me credit for the taxes that I would have to pay under US federal income tax system. Due

to a US-Thailand tax treaty. But, I would have to pay additional taxes, which would go to

Thailand, because its income tax rates are higher than the US."

-----

"almost all double tax agreements contain a clause which entitles the "secondary" tax

authority to levy the difference between taxes already paid and taxes due."

"example: if a thai resident earns income 'X' in country 'A' having a double tax agreement

with Thailand and pays the amount 'Y' in country 'A' which is less than thai income tax 'Z'

then thai tax authorities can levy the difference between 'Z' and 'Y' assuming 'Z' is greater

than 'Y'."

(Thai visa website forums)

[ubonjoe]

Not sure where you are getting your info from. You certainly are not getting it from link I posted.

Pensions are not taxable here.

Pensions are taxable. It's right there in your link, twice:

1. "A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand."

2. "income by virtue of jobs, positions or services rendered;"

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

Moreover a double taxation treaty does not exempt one from Thai tax if they've paid tax already on that taxable income to their home country when the Thai tax rate exceeds that tax paid to the home country.

I don't see it.

1.Is a general statement defined by info that follows in the next clause.

2. A pension is none of those.

Edited September 8, 2013 by ubonjoe

[asiaexpat]

Not sure where you are getting your info from. You certainly are not getting it from link I posted.

Pensions are not taxable here.

Pensions are taxable. It's right there in your link, twice:

1. "A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand."

2. "income by virtue of jobs, positions or services rendered;"

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

Moreover a double taxation treaty does not exempt one from Thai tax if they've paid tax already on that taxable income to their home country when the Thai tax rate exceeds that tax paid to the home country.

This is not correct for US citizens. Article 20 of the US-Thailand Tax treaty states pensions and social security benefits will be taxed only in the state from which they are derived. i.e. US citizens are taxed in the USA and are exempt from tax of any kind on pensions or social security benefits. It is wise for anyone working in Thailand to read their tax treaty as they tend to be complex and individual situations may cause a tax liability to either state or both states.

[oldthaihand99]

Not sure where you are getting your info from. You certainly are not getting it from link I posted.

Pensions are not taxable here.

Pensions are taxable. It's right there in your link, twice:

1. "A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand."

2. "income by virtue of jobs, positions or services rendered;"

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

Moreover a double taxation treaty does not exempt one from Thai tax if they've paid tax already on that taxable income to their home country when the Thai tax rate exceeds that tax paid to the home country.

I don't see it.

1.Is a general statement defined by info that follows in the next clause.

2. A pension is none of those.

Pension income is income, like rain is wet.

"Tax is levied as follows: Pensions and retirement pay brought into Thailand."

That is the unanimous opinion of all the Thai legal sites I've seen on the subject as well as the Thai tax law itself:

"Section 40 Assessable income is income of the following categories including any amount of tax paid by the payer of income or by any other person on behalf of a taxpayer.

•(1) Income derived from employment, whether in the form of salary, wage, per diem, bonus,

bounty, gratuity, pension,..."

http://www.samuiforsale.com/law-texts/the-thailand-revenue-code.html

[lopburi3]

The law is the tax treaty and there is no such language in it. US pensions are a defined type and are taxed at source and this is not the same as income from other types of income.

[oldthaihand99]

The law is the tax treaty and there is no such language in it. US pensions are a defined type and are taxed at source and this is not the same as income from other types of income.

There are 196 countries in the world. Most have no tax treaty with Thailand, so would be subject to Thai tax law were they to become Thai tax residents. Apparently even most of those that have a tax treaty would be subject to Thai taxes as well. This would include those who retire in Thailand & their foreign pension income.

[IMA_FARANG]

To respond ONLY to 90 day reporting ... not saying anything about any possible tax issues you may or may not have regarding any income generated in Thailand.

But that answer to your 90 reporting questions is that you ONLY need to do 90 reporting to Thai immigration when you are actually living in Thailand for more than 90 days at a time.

So if you are not living in Thailand for more than 90 days at a time you do not need to do 90 day reporting.

Also, if you leave Thailand while on long term stay (requires 90 day reporting if you live in Thailand on that long term basis) your 90 day reporting requirement ENDS when you leave the country.

So, if you are on 90 day reporting, you have that exit re-entry permit before you leave .... or have that multi exit re-entry permit .... your 90 day reporting requirement ends, and when you return it restarts your new 90 clock again.

So you get another 90 days to make your next 90 day report starting from the day you return.

[OJAS]

Apparently even most of those that have a tax treaty would be subject to Thai taxes as well. This would include those who retire in Thailand & their foreign pension income.

Kindly provide specific documentary evidence (in the form of weblinks) in support of this sweeping assertion.

[Sceptict11]

Apparently even most of those that have a tax treaty would be subject to Thai taxes as well. This would include those who retire in Thailand & their foreign pension income.

Kindly provide specific documentary evidence (in the form of weblinks) in support of this sweeping assertion.

There will be no weblinks because the claim is barking nonsense!

[Nobbie49]

The law is the tax treaty and there is no such language in it. US pensions are a defined type and are taxed at source and this is not the same as income from other types of income.

There are 196 countries in the world. Most have no tax treaty with Thailand, so would be subject to Thai tax law were they to become Thai tax residents. Apparently even most of those that have a tax treaty would be subject to Thai taxes as well. This would include those who retire in Thailand & their foreign pension income.

Thailand has DTAs with 52 countries

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/21973.0.html

[FritsSikkink]

Your workpermit is not valid if you work from a different location.

[oldthaihand99]

Apparently even most of those that have a tax treaty would be subject to Thai taxes as well. This would include those who retire in Thailand & their foreign pension income.

Kindly provide specific documentary evidence (in the form of weblinks) in support of this sweeping assertion.

See post 18 this thread. Also:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/85658-thai-retirement-visa-holder-pays-thai-taxes/

[oldthaihand99]

Thailand has DTAs with 52 countries

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/21973.0.html

That would leave 195 - 52 = 143 countries with no tax agreement with LOS.

Nationals of those 143 countries who are tax residents of Thailand are subject to Thai taxation on their foreign income, pensions included.

However such foreign income is only taxable in Thailand if it is brought into Thailand in the same year that it is obtained.