Pro-12 Rugby Union

[Mossfinn]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/pro12/results

Watched the Munster game, a little like Chalk & Cheese really, the old style of stifling the 'ell out of the opposition then forcing a maul and driving line out appear to be out the window, as was hinted at last season and a new flowing style put in place. But Munster ain't Leinster, Sarries or the Top Guns of the French monetary units, I can see this being a long hard season.

I know it is a time of transition, the old guard have either left or nearing the end, Stringer has left, O'Gara has gone French, O'Connell is being held together with sticky tape and Howlett forced to retire, a whole new ball game.

[Mossfinn]

http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/matchcentre/12795.php

Early scare for Munster, but with the Downey replacement proves the stronger team

[Mossfinn]

http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/matchcentre/12807.php

Big game very feisty apparently

[Mossfinn]

http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/matchcentre/table.php

Munster go top, but I wonder for how long

[StreetCowboy]

http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/matchcentre/table.php

Munster go top, but I wonder for how long

A good weekend for the Scots, with Newcastle making it three out of three (?)

[Mossfinn]

http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/matchcentre/12881.php

Munstered

[Mossfinn]

http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/matchcentre/12880.php

This game was painful to watch, and then watching Castre v Toulouse the following day, it will be hard to see how any Irish team will progress in the HC.

Big improvement required by all.

[StreetCowboy]

 

http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/matchcentre/12880.php

This game was painful to watch, and then watching Castre v Toulouse the following day, it will be hard to see how any Irish team will progress in the HC.

Big improvement required by all.

 

Well, the Italians are doing their bit to improve...

[StreetCowboy]

So what do you chaps think about this rugby European Cup controversy, then?

[Mossfinn]

They both have serious points, the French have money, the English the support, but both have competitive games week in, week out.

The Irish & Welsh can afford to rest key players in key games, and because of the qualification rules, have a better return.

There is room for compromise, but the Pro 12 don't want to cave in to bullying, the French and English have had enough of not getting, what they perceive as a their fair share.

The point is the ERC is about sharing the game and development throughout the Nations, but it should also be about selection of the better teams to progress.

A compromise of the two should and would work, but sadly it has broken down.

[StreetCowboy]

They both have serious points, the French have money, the English the support, but both have competitive games week in, week out.

The Irish & Welsh can afford to rest key players in key games, and because of the qualification rules, have a better return.

There is room for compromise, but the Pro 12 don't want to cave in to bullying, the French and English have had enough of not getting, what they perceive as a their fair share.

The point is the ERC is about sharing the game and development throughout the Nations, but it should also be about selection of the better teams to progress.

A compromise of the two should and would work, but sadly it has broken down.

The English presentation is that their teams are at a disadvantage because they need to worry about relegation. Even if there was relegation, Ulster, Munster & leinster would not have to worry. The crux of the matter is that English teams do not treat the European competition as important as their own league, and it is unfair that they have to compete against clubs that take the European cup seriously

[StreetCowboy]

Once again we see the gross disparity between the English and Celtic leagues, as table-toppers Saracens crush 11th-placed Connacht 23 - 17.

Perhaps if the English and French set up a new cup, there'll be chance an English team might win it - were it not for all the French teams... Anyway, there's a good chance an English team will win the Aviva Premiership, so maybe they should focus on that.

SC

[StreetCowboy]

Sounds like a humdinger of a game at Murrayfield as Edinburgh record their first win in the Heineken Cup since their QF win against Toulouse two seasons ago.

[Mossfinn]

Sounds like a humdinger of a game at Murrayfield as Edinburgh record their first win in the Heineken Cup since their QF win against Toulouse two seasons ago.

It was a very exciting game, Munster in my view really threw it away, however Edinburgh really took it to the boys.

[Mossfinn]

They both have serious points, the French have money, the English the support, but both have competitive games week in, week out.

The Irish & Welsh can afford to rest key players in key games, and because of the qualification rules, have a better return.

There is room for compromise, but the Pro 12 don't want to cave in to bullying, the French and English have had enough of not getting, what they perceive as a their fair share.

The point is the ERC is about sharing the game and development throughout the Nations, but it should also be about selection of the better teams to progress.

A compromise of the two should and would work, but sadly it has broken down.

The English presentation is that their teams are at a disadvantage because they need to worry about relegation. Even if there was relegation, Ulster, Munster & leinster would not have to worry. The crux of the matter is that English teams do not treat the European competition as important as their own league, and it is unfair that they have to compete against clubs that take the European cup seriously

Yes and no SC. The relegation thing is an issue, and yes the provinces would have little trouble in qualifying, but because of the system a teams from Scotland and Italy have to be included, whilst other more deserving teams miss out. Now I was at London Irish two seasons ago, when Edinburgh be a t Irish and went on to the semis and zebre beat Munster this season, treviso have also done well. I also believe n inclusion is important, so have the team's that qualify on merit and just one team from the lesser nations, at this time. This allows greater cross knowledge and increases future improvement.

[Mossfinn]

Once again we see the gross disparity between the English and Celtic leagues, as table-toppers Saracens crush 11th-placed Connacht 23 - 17.

Perhaps if the English and French set up a new cup, there'll be chance an English team might win it - were it not for all the French teams... Anyway, there's a good chance an English team will win the Aviva Premiership, so maybe they should focus on that.

SC

SC, the Rangers were bashing at Saracens line fight to the end, but just failed, and like you, I have a feeling that a competition between just the French and English will result in no victory for the English

[StreetCowboy]

They both have serious points, the French have money, the English the support, but both have competitive games week in, week out.

The Irish & Welsh can afford to rest key players in key games, and because of the qualification rules, have a better return.

There is room for compromise, but the Pro 12 don't want to cave in to bullying, the French and English have had enough of not getting, what they perceive as a their fair share.

The point is the ERC is about sharing the game and development throughout the Nations, but it should also be about selection of the better teams to progress.

A compromise of the two should and would work, but sadly it has broken down.

The English presentation is that their teams are at a disadvantage because they need to worry about relegation. Even if there was relegation, Ulster, Munster & leinster would not have to worry. The crux of the matter is that English teams do not treat the European competition as important as their own league, and it is unfair that they have to compete against clubs that take the European cup seriously

Yes and no SC. The relegation thing is an issue, and yes the provinces would have little trouble in qualifying, but because of the system a teams from Scotland and Italy have to be included, whilst other more deserving teams miss out. Now I was at London Irish two seasons ago, when Edinburgh be a t Irish and went on to the semis and zebre beat Munster this season, treviso have also done well. I also believe n inclusion is important, so have the team's that qualify on merit and just one team from the lesser nations, at this time. This allows greater cross knowledge and increases future improvement.

I agree - my recommendation would be for the European Cup - the four Semi-Finalists from the previous year, the two finalists from the Challenge Cup, and the top six each from the contributing leagues. Perhaps with a caveat that at least one team from each country had to qualify, for the sake of the Italian television audience, I don't think that the Scottish TV audience necessarily justifies that, and I'd hope that we would always have at least one team in the top six (top eight or nine, because most of the semifinalists come from the Pro 12....)

SC

[Mossfinn]

I could live with that suggestion SC.

Same amount of teams as now, presuming you mean if any of the teams in the semi's, or final of the HC, or ACC are in the top six of their leagues, then it drops down to the next placed side.

The over-riding caveat as you mention would be at least one team from each nation to be represented, yes I like your suggestion, sadly I cannot see it being adopted.

[StreetCowboy]

I could live with that suggestion SC.

Same amount of teams as now, presuming you mean if any of the teams in the semi's, or final of the HC, or ACC are in the top six of their leagues, then it drops down to the next placed side.

The over-riding caveat as you mention would be at least one team from each nation to be represented, yes I like your suggestion, sadly I cannot see it being adopted.

I don't think the disagreement is about representation anyway, it's about the money share-out. The representation argument is just a smoke screen.

SC

[StreetCowboy]

I'm chortling with glee, and rubbing my hands to boot, watching Edinburgh take a 10 - 6 lead over Glasgow in the first leg of the 1872 Cup. It's from the Alba TV coverage, so the commentary is mostly in Gaelic, so it takes me back to my childhood watching Mag Is Mog on a Saturday morning. Still don't understand a word of it, like.

SC

[StreetCowboy]

So much for that; despite dominating the game, Edinburgh came away second-best 16 - 20 to Glasgow