Where is the law about kids overstay?

[samlowry]

Hello!

Everybody talks about this rule. I can't believe that whole Thailand follow the rule without issued law. So - where is it?

[ubonjoe]

There is no law.

It is probably a Interior Ministry regulation covering overstay fines.

[samlowry]

Regulation, law — for me it's all same stuff. Somebody from government wrote it and people follow it in the Kingdom. I don't care how it calls, I want to see, what exactly said about it in this paper!!! Nobody seen it but everybody quote it.

[Mario2008]

It has to do with Thai criminal law for juveniles, that makes a distinction between children under 7 years old, children between 7 and 14 years old and children older than 15.

Internal regulation from immigration is that children under the age of 15 do not get fined for overstay. That regulation has not been published that I know of, but there have been posters in the past at airports about this.

[ubonjoe]

If you can read Thai I am sure you can find it somewhere. Perhaps the Royal Gazette archives.

There is a lot of information like this and all we do is go by the experience of others.

[arthurboy]

Thanks for your info.

Sent from my GT-I9070 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Gone]

Or you could try an overstay and when they tell you to pay just say NI. Im sure you will find out very quickly about this law. Or you could learn to read Thai, buy the Thai criminal code books and read it yourself. Either way, a lot of it is left up to the immigration officers to govern on their own accord. Just like they can throw you out of Thailand any time they want.

[ericthai]

I can say my friend from the USA lived here for 4 years. He had his two daughters with him and his wife. He had a visa and work permit for himself and got a visa for his wife taken care of but never did anything with his kids. When he moved here his daughters were 6 and 9 when he left they were 10 and 13. So they over stayed almost 4 years. He said he was told he would not have to pay any over stay for them but had the cash ready just in case. He called me after immigration and said there was no issue at all. However that was back in 2004 so are things still the same I cant say 100%.

[Maestro]

See the Criminal Code, Book I, Chapter 4 Criminal Liability, Sections 73 and 74 (on pages 21 and 22 of the attached PDF file)

Criminal Code.pdf

This is an English translation of the actual law, which is of course in Thai. I have no copy of the original Thai text but you should be able to find it on www.krisdika.go.th or get it from a law office.

[ubonjoe]

I can say my friend from the USA lived here for 4 years. He had his two daughters with him and his wife. He had a visa and work permit for himself and got a visa for his wife taken care of but never did anything with his kids. When he moved here his daughters were 6 and 9 when he left they were 10 and 13. So they over stayed almost 4 years. He said he was told he would not have to pay any over stay for them but had the cash ready just in case. He called me after immigration and said there was no issue at all. However that was back in 2004 so are things still the same I cant say 100%.

This is an example of exactly the wrong thing to do. Children could of gotten the same extensions as their mother.

I only suggest overstay for children for short trips such as a holiday.

When planning a longer stay the parents should always obtain the proper visa/extensions for their children. Other complications can arise besides the overstay issue such as schools wanting to see valid visas or extensions upon enrollment.

Edited September 9, 2013 by ubonjoe

[dighambara]

 

I can say my friend from the USA lived here for 4 years. He had his two daughters with him and his wife. He had a visa and work permit for himself and got a visa for his wife taken care of but never did anything with his kids. When he moved here his daughters were 6 and 9 when he left they were 10 and 13. So they over stayed almost 4 years. He said he was told he would not have to pay any over stay for them but had the cash ready just in case. He called me after immigration and said there was no issue at all. However that was back in 2004 so are things still the same I cant say 100%.

This is an example of exactly the wrong thing to do. Children could of gotten the same extensions as their mother.

I only suggest overstay for children for short trips such as a holiday.

When planning a longer stay the parents should always obtain the proper visa/extensions for their children. Other complications can arise besides the overstay issue such as schools wanting to see valid visas or extensions upon enrollment.

 

IN THAILAND..?? I have four children in school - none have been asked for papers regarding legal residency.

[technologybytes]

 

I can say my friend from the USA lived here for 4 years. He had his two daughters with him and his wife. He had a visa and work permit for himself and got a visa for his wife taken care of but never did anything with his kids. When he moved here his daughters were 6 and 9 when he left they were 10 and 13. So they over stayed almost 4 years. He said he was told he would not have to pay any over stay for them but had the cash ready just in case. He called me after immigration and said there was no issue at all. However that was back in 2004 so are things still the same I cant say 100%.

This is an example of exactly the wrong thing to do. Children could of gotten the same extensions as their mother.

I only suggest overstay for children for short trips such as a holiday.

When planning a longer stay the parents should always obtain the proper visa/extensions for their children. Other complications can arise besides the overstay issue such as schools wanting to see valid visas or extensions upon enrollment.

 

IN THAILAND..?? I have four children in school - none have been asked for papers regarding legal residency.

Really... my son's school needed all that on enrollment, they wanted a copy of my passport also which i declined on principle.

[Visad]

Do they get an overstay stamp in their passport? Could an overstay affect future visits to Thailand?

[Mario2008]

Yes, passports get stamped with nothing the overstay.

So far an overstay doesn't have negative consequences regarding visas or entreis into Thailand.

Under circumstances it might have an effect on trying to enter another country. A Nigerian national for example trying to apply for a visa for the US or Europe might have some extra explaining to do with a Thai overstay stamp in his/her passport.

[cbluck58]

My daughter has been here for some years and , mainly because we live close to a border post , she has never been in the position of overstaying her visa .

When, however, we changed her visa class to an ED visa, which for various reasons we couldn't do on arrival here I was told by the Immigration officer that they are unconcerned about children under 15 overstaying anyway.

I have since had conversations with several Immigration officials ( my local golf club is owned by them and there are plenty there every weekend ) and they have all confirmed the same.

[ubonjoe]

Do they get an overstay stamp in their passport? Could an overstay affect future visits to Thailand?

They would get stamps but it would not have any affect on future trips.

There have been cases of people having very long overstays and paying the fine at the airport and returning the same day.

[Mario2008]

My daughter has been here for some years and , mainly because we live close to a border post , she has never been in the position of overstaying her visa .

When, however, we changed her visa class to an ED visa, which for various reasons we couldn't do on arrival here I was told by the Immigration officer that they are unconcerned about children under 15 overstaying anyway.

I have since had conversations with several Immigration officials ( my local golf club is owned by them and there are plenty there every weekend ) and they have all confirmed the same.

It doesn't change the fact that the child is staying illegally in Thailand, which can have unforseen consequences.

For example does your insurence (health, accident, liability, etc) pay in case of an illegal stay? It could be grounds to deny a claim.

[Arkady]

It is based on the Penal Code, as mentioned above, but, since the rule seems to be applied consistently by Immigration at airports there must be an Immigration regulation about it. Most probably it is an official National Police Order published in the Royal Gazette. Go into the latter http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/RKJ/index/index.htm and key in appropriate search terms in Thai and you will find the announcement, if there has ever been a National Police Order or ministerial regulation about this. The records archived at the Royal Gazette pre-date the introduction of immigration controls in 1927. So, if it is not there, it doesn't exist and could only be an unpublished internal regulation of the Immigration Bureau but that is unlikely.

[Arkady]

My daughter has been here for some years and , mainly because we live close to a border post , she has never been in the position of overstaying her visa .

When, however, we changed her visa class to an ED visa, which for various reasons we couldn't do on arrival here I was told by the Immigration officer that they are unconcerned about children under 15 overstaying anyway.

I have since had conversations with several Immigration officials ( my local golf club is owned by them and there are plenty there every weekend ) and they have all confirmed the same.

It doesn't change the fact that the child is staying illegally in Thailand, which can have unforseen consequences.

For example does your insurence (health, accident, liability, etc) pay in case of an illegal stay? It could be grounds to deny a claim.

Intuitively it can't be a good idea to make your child an involuntary illegal immigrant as a long term strategy. Unless you are desperate, legalising your children's immigration status is the responsible parenting thing to do.

[Visad]

Thanks for the replies.

What if the parents are both farangs and the kid too. The parents have a work permit, could the kids somehow use the work permit/visa to avoid overstaying, even if there is no penalty for overstaying?

[sfbandung]

We overstayed 2 days last visit. I asked if there would be trouble in future and he was nice enough. "Only if you don't pay fine, and two days is not very much" "And my daughter?" "No fine for children, not their fault if they over stay, parents fault"

We actually went to Immigration or whatever it is in Udon Thani before the 30 days was up and they asked to see the ticket. "Only two days, just pay 1,000 baht fine when you leave"

[ubonjoe]

Thanks for the replies.

What if the parents are both farangs and the kid too. The parents have a work permit, could the kids somehow use the work permit/visa to avoid overstaying, even if there is no penalty for overstaying?

If a parent is on an extension they can get extensions as their dependents.

If visas then they could get visas as well.

Edited September 9, 2013 by ubonjoe

[rct99q]

Just a note on these overstays.....if by chance you were to be caught up in a check stop and asked for passports and valid visas. If it is noticed that you are on an overstay you could be detained (almost certainly) by immigration. I have not heard of it happening to a family but it could. I am not sure of the consequences if you are on bus somewhere and they check for ID and you are okay but your children are in an overstay situation....

Boggles my mind to see and hear people not bothering to get their children the proper identification while living here in Thailand.

[SiggiCM]

kids under 15 years dont pa any fine for overstay, i just bring my son to airport he had 20 days overstay and even the flight accompaniment who take over him, told me no problem, he went thru imigration took, 1 minute, my son is 12 years old,

[bkk_mike]

My daughter's a dual national but one time she entered on her British passport as her Thai passport had expired.

When she next left Thailand a year later, I made a point of telling her to leave on her UK passport, not her Thai one, so that it would clear up the overstay while she was underage (12 at the time - last year). She had to go up to the overstay counter but there was no fine.

[ubonjoe]

My daughter's a dual national but one time she entered on her British passport as her Thai passport had expired.

 

When she next left Thailand a year later, I made a point of telling her to leave on her UK passport, not her Thai one, so that it would clear up the overstay while she was underage (12 at the time - last year). She had to go up to the overstay counter but there was no fine.

Thai's can enter Thailand on an expired passport. Just info for for the future and others that might not be aware of this.

[Maestro]

It is based on the Penal Code, as mentioned above, but, since the rule seems to be applied consistently by Immigration at airports there must be an Immigration regulation about it. Most probably it is an official National Police Order published in the Royal Gazette. Go into the latter http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/RKJ/index/index.htm and key in appropriate search terms in Thai and you will find the announcement, if there has ever been a National Police Order or ministerial regulation about this. The records archived at the Royal Gazette pre-date the introduction of immigration controls in 1927. So, if it is not there, it doesn't exist and could only be an unpublished internal regulation of the Immigration Bureau but that is unlikely.

Good thinking. I suspect the overstay fine exemption for children is in the "settlement rule or any conditions as the Settlement Commission my deem proper" mentioned in section 84 of the Immigration Act:

Section 84 : In all offenses under this Act, except the provisions of Section 62

Para.1 Section 63 , 64, 71 and 82 Para.2. The settlement Commission ,consisting

of the Police Department’s Director General or Representative, the Public

Prosecution Department’s Director General or Representative, and the

Immigration Division’s Commander or Representative, as the, members shall

have the authority to assign duty of settlement to the Inquiry Official or the

competent official by fixing a settlement rule or any conditions as the Settlement

Commission my deem proper.

When the offender has paid the fine as stipulate, the case shall be deemed settled

under the Criminal Procedure Code.

This "settlement rule" is the same document that fixes the current summary fine for overstay at 500 Baht per day, maximum 20,000 Baht, and other summary fines. I have tried for years to find this document, without success, and if somebody finds it, perhaps on the link http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/RKJ/index/index.htm that Arkady has given, I should be grateful.