Wife has UK ILR approved then vanishes and tells me not to look for her?

[Jay Sata]

I have to say that I can find no Zambrano application in UK law. To be frank if you start to go down the likes of this and other avenues such as Surinder Singh I'd question why the primary route via the £18600 threshold is not a better idea. If you can't meet that figure life is going to be hard.

In my opinion supporting a spouse is expensive before you leave the UK. Thinking that bringing a foreign partner back to the UK is not going to cost a lot of money is akin to Canute and the sea.

When I got my pilots licence 35 years ago I was advised that girlfriends, horses and aeroplane's were high ticket items.

Hence if it f****,f***ts, or fly's rent it is true.

I had a phone call a few days ago from a friend who married a Filipino a few years ago. She's just left him and taken the kids to move in with a younger guy.

In my opinion you reap what you sow.

The OP is well out of it and has learnt his lesson.

Edited September 20, 2013 by Jay Sata

[wooloomooloo]

I had a phone call a few days ago from a friend who married a Filipino a few years ago. She's just left him and taken the kids to move in with a younger guy.

For all we know she may be better off with the new boyfriend. It's half a story, Jay, and doesn't reinforce any facts.

[7by7]

I have to say that I can find no Zambrano application in UK law.

Can't have looked very hard!

[Briggsy]

This thread really has been fantastic. I have enjoyed the input of all posters.

[FiftyTwo]

As I said earlier, they have to prove it with evidence such as medical and police reports.

But don't let the facts interfere with your prejudices.

This topic has degenerated into another immigrant bashfest of no further use to anyone.

She doesn't have to have scars or Black eyes her word on the Police statement will be good enough to prefer charges!

I agree, I don't believe 7b7 has any personal experience of Family Court (which is probably a good thing for him) in the UK.

Really biased, very unfair towards men, rules of evidence do not apply, held in secret. But saying that, if I hadn't experienced it, I wouldn't have believed it myself, "Surely a court in England can't be like that?", "Yes, it can."

Edited September 21, 2013 by FiftyTwo

[transam]

As I said earlier, they have to prove it with evidence such as medical and police reports.

But don't let the facts interfere with your prejudices.

This topic has degenerated into another immigrant bashfest of no further use to anyone.

She doesn't have to have scars or Black eyes her word on the Police statement will be good enough to prefer charges!

I agree, I don't believe 7b7 has any personal experience of Family Court (which is probably a good think for him) in the UK.

Really biased, very unfair towards men, rules of evidence do not apply, held in secret. But saying that, if I hadn't experienced it, I wouldn't have believed it myself, "Surely a court in England can't be like that?", "Yes, it can."

May I add, my ex UK wife was given a Penal Notice (threat of imprisonment) for telling a pack of lies about me and her finances. The Internet saved my day through me finding out stuff too.

[7by7]

As I said earlier, they have to prove it with evidence such as medical and police reports.

But don't let the facts interfere with your prejudices.

This topic has degenerated into another immigrant bashfest of no further use to anyone.

She doesn't have to have scars or Black eyes her word on the Police statement will be good enough to prefer charges!

I agree, I don't believe 7b7 has any personal experience of Family Court (which is probably a good thing for him) in the UK.

Really biased, very unfair towards men, rules of evidence do not apply, held in secret. But saying that, if I hadn't experienced it, I wouldn't have believed it myself, "Surely a court in England can't be like that?", "Yes, it can."

What has family court got to do with it? Accusations of domestic violence, if the CPS consider there to be sufficient evidence, are dealt with in the criminal court.

Domestic violence, crime and victims Act, 2004

Transam, you are saying that your ex wife was threatened with imprisonment for lying about you ( to the police? to the court?); would not the same law apply to an immigrant wife who lied about being the victim of domestic violence or abouse?

I think it would.

Those who think claiming domestic violence is an easy way to obtaining ILR are wrong.

This document describes the requirements and documents required. Those who actually read it will see that there is a lot more required than simply, as Majic reckons, making a police statement!

[transam]

As I said earlier, they have to prove it with evidence such as medical and police reports.

But don't let the facts interfere with your prejudices.

This topic has degenerated into another immigrant bashfest of no further use to anyone.

She doesn't have to have scars or Black eyes her word on the Police statement will be good enough to prefer charges!

I agree, I don't believe 7b7 has any personal experience of Family Court (which is probably a good thing for him) in the UK.

Really biased, very unfair towards men, rules of evidence do not apply, held in secret. But saying that, if I hadn't experienced it, I wouldn't have believed it myself, "Surely a court in England can't be like that?", "Yes, it can."

What has family court got to do with it? Accusations of domestic violence, if the CPS consider there to be sufficient evidence, are dealt with in the criminal court.

Domestic violence, crime and victims Act, 2004

Transam, you are saying that your ex wife was threatened with imprisonment for lying about you ( to the police? to the court?); would not the same law apply to an immigrant wife who lied about being the victim of domestic violence or abouse?

I think it would.

Those who think claiming domestic violence is an easy way to obtaining ILR are wrong.

This document describes the requirements and documents required. Those who actually read it will see that there is a lot more required than simply, as Majic reckons, making a police statement!

Nooooooo, in my case after the pack of lies divorce, her pack of lies financial stuff AND lies about me in the financial court, she came a cropper.

ALL was revealed about her pack of lies divorce etc.

[7by7]

So she lied and came a cropper.

As would any immigrant spouse lying about domestic violence in order to obtain ILR!

Though I suppose they could get someone else to beat them up and then claim that their spouse did it; but that seems a bit extreme!

[transam]

So she lied and came a cropper.

As would any immigrant spouse lying about domestic violence in order to obtain ILR!

Though I suppose they could get someone else to beat them up and then claim that their spouse did it; but that seems a bit extreme!

In my case nooooooooo violence was insinuated or put forward. If it were, I would now be serving time as lies can only go so far before my wrath comes to the fore .

Edited September 22, 2013 by transam

[7by7]

Transam, I am sorry if you felt that I was implying that there was any violence in your case; I was not.

I am attempting to show that using the domestic violence route to ILR is not as easy as some think. That there is a lot more required than telling a few porkies at the local nick.

You said your wife lied and was caught.

I am saying that, because of the specific evidence required, a spouse lying about being the victim of domestic violence would be also.

[FiftyTwo]

What has family court got to do with it? Accusations of domestic violence, if the CPS consider there to be sufficient evidence, are dealt with in the criminal court.

Domestic violence, crime and victims Act, 2004

Transam, you are saying that your ex wife was threatened with imprisonment for lying about you ( to the police? to the court?); would not the same law apply to an immigrant wife who lied about being the victim of domestic violence or abouse?

I think it would.

Those who think claiming domestic violence is an easy way to obtaining ILR are wrong.

This document describes the requirements and documents required. Those who actually read it will see that there is a lot more required than simply, as Majic reckons, making a police statement!

Allegations of domestic violence are first held in Family Court, where court orders involving division of assets, occupancy of the home, restraining orders, custody and access of the children will be decided.

If there is sufficient physical evidence that actual assault took place, the police will then refer the case to the DPP for consideration of further action in Magistrates or crown court.

It's the family court that will ban you from your own home, stop you seeing your children, deprive you of your savings and pension, where rules of evidence are not required and all proceedings are held under strict rules of secrecy. Then it's the Magistrates court that may deprive you of your freedom, although by that stage many men may feel that's no longer worth much.

Edited September 22, 2013 by FiftyTwo

[7by7]

Any such accusations would be taken into consideration in any divorce action.

But in a criminal court more hard evidence than the alleged victim's word would usually be required.

Certainly that would be the case in any application for ILR under the domestic violence rules; and it is ILR which we are discussing here.

[Jay Sata]

7by7

Once again you are giving advice that is incorrect.

You can google family courts as much as you like but they are a closed shop.

It would be nice now and again if you posted from your experience instead of links on the Internet.

If a family court is involved with children then it's outside the realm of normal migration law.

For UK fathers the family court is a nightmare. I speak from experience of an ex wife (Briitish) and expensive boarding schools and fees.

So does Louis de Bernieres.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/sex/divorce/8870302/Louis-de-Bernieres-Nearly-losing-my-children-was-hell.html

Fiftytwo....

As you've been there you'll appreciate the above.

Edited September 23, 2013 by Jay Sata

[tribalfusion001]

My wife hates learning English and learning LITUK, so not much chance of her getting ILR and buggering off!

[FiftyTwo]

If a family court is involved with children then it's outside the realm of normal migration law.

For UK fathers the family court is a nightmare. I speak from experience of an ex wife (Briitish) and expensive boarding schools and fees.

So does Louis de Bernieres.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/sex/divorce/8870302/Louis-de-Bernieres-Nearly-losing-my-children-was-hell.html

Fiftytwo....

As you've been there you'll appreciate the above.

From your link,

"However, since the introduction of mediation, a new problem has emerged. All a woman has to do to get rid of a father is accuse him of sexual abuse or violence. In this way she can keep him away from the children for two or three years while the authorities dither, failing to investigate, and, just in case there is any substance in the accusations, judges will not grant interim contact orders. "

@Jay and 7by

Problem is you have two types of men in the UK now, those that have experienced Family Court, and those that haven't.

Those that have can never convince those that haven't, because those that haven't don't want to believe it could ever happen to them. Children are not essential to the claims, all such claims are heard in Family Court, in secret.

[7by7]

I repeat; this is a topic about ILR; not family courts.

The requirements for applying for ILR as a victim of domestic violence make it clear that the applicant's word is not enough.

I have already linked to the appropriate Home Office document but here is that link again; I suggest that you read it before commenting further.

[Maestro]

An off-topic post has been removed.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[FiftyTwo]

I repeat; this is a topic about ILR; not family courts.

The requirements for applying for ILR as a victim of domestic violence make it clear that the applicant's word is not enough.

I have already linked to the appropriate Home Office document but here is that link again; I suggest that you read it before commenting further.

Having read the document on your link.

1 Domestic violence can include threatening or controlling behaviour, so no physical evidence required.

2 Non Molestation order, easy to get from family court, no evidence required.

3 Multi agency meeting, risk assessment between social security and women's refuge would do, available on request.

4 Undertaking to the court, again family court, not a problem.

5 Police report, no proof required just a phone call to the police, help, help.

6 Social services and refuge letter already covered under (3)

Looks dead easy to me, my misses in the UK managed 1-6 (not 4) without me even realising there was anything going on, ask and ye shall receive. I can assure you from that document it is clear her word is entirely enough. All the required documentation will be provided by all the agencies just on her accusations. NONE of the agencies mentioned require any physical proof.

And if you wanted physical evidence from a GP report, hitting yourself in the eye or mouth would provide that evidence as a GP would not be in a position to state who hit you.

Edited September 29, 2013 by FiftyTwo

[bobrussell]

A close family member went through the whole DV process. It was not a simple process but the immigration side of things was very well handled by the UKBA (ILR granted within a week). It did take a lot of evidence but in this case it was overwhelming.

The family court ranged from brilliant, supportive and fair (to all parties)at one hearing to downright ridiculous on another.

The refuge staff are not daft and will be more than aware of those playing the system. It is a great cause for frustration when they see genuine cases struggling because of the chancers. In my relatives case there were Police visits, statements and risk assessments. Overall I believe it would have been quite difficult to pull the wool over the eyes of the authorities.

A non-molestation order is not that easy to get and you do need to give precise details to get one. One thing I discovered was that Judges vary dramatically in how they deal with cases. At one hearing the solicitors face fell on hearing the Judge's identity for the day. The Judge was more interested in getting her lunch!

I know this is not on the original topic but is really important IMO. The one thing that is often lacking is physical proof, almost by definition little is available as it usually happens behind closed doors with no witnesses.

I am sure there are plenty of situations where this route to ILR is misused but plenty more where it is justified.

In the case of the OP ILR had already been granted by the 'normal' route not DV. Unless it can be proven that deception had been involved in gaining ILR then not a lot can be done. The UK visa authorities are hardly likely to spend major resources fighting a weak case.