Thammasat University row takes an interesting turn

[webfact]

Thammasat University row takes an interesting turn
Kornchanok Raksaseri



BANGKOK: -- THE CAMPAIGN launched by Thammasat University students last week over uniforms appears to have provoked a lot of debate.

Topics such as freedom, discipline and other issues are being constantly debated, while Facebook fanpages seem to be filled with different opinions.

In fact, some opinions, especially about the university itself, are so divided that fanpages with names like East and West TU have been set up. The administrators of these pages have been trying really hard to make their divisions sound like East and West Germany.

Yet the "East" (https://www.facebook.com/inEastTU?fref=ts) and "West"

(https://www.facebook.com/BundesrepublikThammasat?fref=ts) are equally critical about the university's decision to make students wear uniforms.

"East TU" presents itself as conservative, but deals with the regulation on uniforms in a sarcastic manner, saying that everybody - human or animal - at Thammasat University has to wear a uniform.

Meanwhile, the Central Intelligence Bureau of Thammasat or CIBT (https://www.facebook.com/IntelligenceBureauTU?fref=ts), which joined Facebook on Wednesday, has been reporting on the movements in the university.

"After the establishment of the Neko Wall [think the wall of Berlin], there have been many movements such as the 'TU Exiled Government', 'Students' Front against the separation of TU' and 'Support SSJ [somsak Jeamteerasakul] as the rector of West TU'." Meanwhile, separation movements have been announcing their independence as free states and self-administration areas, the "intelligence bureau" posted in its "Situation Report from the UN [university Nations]".

Claiming cooperation with the "Green Light of Thailand" page, which is run by some Thammasat staff members, CIBT posted a map detailing the zones occupied by different groups in the university's Rangsit Campus. It lists the 68 names of states, administrative areas, organisations and movements on campus as of 3pm on Thursday. Many of these groups are also present on Facebook.

Several Thammasat alumni have complained that this divided opinion is making their heads ache. Former student Aim Attanon asked: "Did I graduate from Thammasat or a battlefield?"

In a new development, poems were posted simultaneously by TU rector Somkit Lertpaithoon and Aum Neko, the student who began the campaign against the uniform regulation, on the TU Exiled Government page yesterday.

This page had earlier posted the result of a survey among students at the Tha Prachan Campus about who would be best suited for the rector's post. Current rector Somkit won 22 of the 65 votes in total, followed by lecturer Thanes Wongyannava with 13, while Somsak and deputy rector Prinya Thaewanarumitkul were running head-to-head with six votes.

The page had earlier compared Thanes and Somsak's qualifications as rectors.

On a completely different tangent, the TU Tawan Daeng fanpage decided to make fun of the East and West TU pages, saying that though tawan awk stands for East and tawan tok for West in Thai, Tawan Daeng is the name of a well-known brewery. Hence the motto: "We don't care about uniforms, we only care about side dishes."

Other than Thammasat, students from other universities also seem to have launched online campaigns by setting up fanpages, such as the Kingdom of Bangkok University and the Sacred Assumption Empire - which carries Assumption University's logo against the message: "Arguments over 'university student uniforms' is no different than arguing over whether Doraemon or Sun Goku is better".

Thammasat University, which was once referred to as the university of laws "and politics", appears still to be a leader when it comes to provocative debates.


-- The Nation 2013-09-14

[samran]

Good for them.

[culicine]

Discipline in young adults needs to come from within and not externally forced. Uniforms, following rules, are all ingrained in conformity. Universities should be trying to develop independent thinkers and thus our future leaders in research. It probably explains why Thailand lags so far behind in research - students are never taught individuality and to take responsibility for their own actions. Students will achieve, or fail, regardless of what they wear or how they keep their hair. If they choose to not attend lessons - fine. Give them the final test, then they fail. They repeat the unit or drop out. It's simple. Lets students take responsibility. Most of them are already adults!

[Nooky2]

Discipline in young adults needs to come from within and not externally forced. Uniforms, following rules, are all ingrained in conformity. Universities should be trying to develop independent thinkers and thus our future leaders in research. It probably explains why Thailand lags so far behind in research - students are never taught individuality and to take responsibility for their own actions. Students will achieve, or fail, regardless of what they wear or how they keep their hair. If they choose to not attend lessons - fine. Give them the final test, then they fail. They repeat the unit or drop out. It's simple. Lets students take responsibility. Most of them are already adults!

Great post! My thoughts exactly.

[johnlandy]

Thais are more concerned with these prehistoric requirements rather than what they should be focusing on 'the most important issue which is excellence in education'

OK if girls are flashing their reproductive equipment (to the distraction of all, fellow students and teachers alike) that should be curbed but a uniform does not ensure

a good education.

Nor does a short hair cut for boys. The teachers at my sons school kept telling him to get his hair cut (he could almost be mistaken for a monk now)

Thailand's education system is the lowest in ASEAN and is the laughing stock of the world.

They should focus on getting the education right rather than curtailing an individuals rights.

I commend and applaud the Thammasat students for the stand that they are taking.

[orang37]

Fascinating ! In this case I must swim against the rip-tide of the daily spew of ridicule and scorn on everything Thai on these forums (mainly by bitter people who have no sense of what Thai culture is, or what Thai history is), but ...

I can interpret this psychodramatic tempest-in-a-teapot, typical of university life for centuries in many western countries, as a sign of healthy freedom of expression, and sense of humor, and, even, self-confidence, among the next generation to come's Thai managers, and politicians.

How delightful the Rector posted a poem, alongside a poem by young "rebel with a cause" posture-striker Khun Neko !

And, what a delightful symptom of Calvinism to see, on this thread, a statement indicating that one poster sees in the brou-ha-ha at TU, an issue of "girls flashing reproductive equipment." Leading me to wonder if the University should provide lockers where all student reproductive equipment can be checked-in before the student goes on campus, or whether TU males should be scrutinized carefully to make sure their pants do not fit too-tight in the groin area. Or, perhaps students of all genders should be required to wear something like a Burqa on campus.

~o:37;

[moe666]

hehehehe love it when a thread brings out the pompous.

[TackyToo]

Conformity (uniformity) in any form and command of unquestioning obedience should not be part of any contemporary education system as these are tools contra productive to a healthy development of students. I studied in Europe during a period of fierce student revolts under the motto: under the gowns (of rectors) you find the fustiness and mildew of a thousand years. That was only the beginning. Later not only the hardcore members of the movement turned against the entire establishment.

Over here students are brainwashed from day one in school so it takes them a little bit longer to understand the system they are in and for what purpose the above mentioned tools are used. I estimate it will take no longer than two or three student generations feeling the heat and pressure of Globalisation and ASEAN to make them realize they were betrayed by a system established and defended only by people who benefit from it.

Yeah, I know I’m an old hippie. However there is a lot of truth in the lyrics of a Bob Dylan song:

Come senators, congressmen

Please heed the call

Don't stand in the doorway

Don't block up the hall

For he that gets hurt

Will be he who has stalled

There's a battle outside

And it is ragin'

It'll soon shake your windows

And rattle your walls

For the times they are a-changin'.

[moe666]

Go for it kids and while you are at it ask for a better education, your parents are paying for it.

[johnlandy]

hehehehe love it when a thread brings out the pompous.

Me too, particularly when they write "mainly by bitter people who have no sense of what Thai culture is"

I would be grateful if someone would enlighten me as to what Thai culture

I have my own thoughts or understanding on the subject which I won't go into here (but it's not pretty)

[animatic]

Conformity (uniformity) in any form and command of unquestioning obedience should not be part of any contemporary education system as these are tools contra productive to a healthy development of students. I studied in Europe during a period of fierce student revolts under the motto: under the gowns (of rectors) you find the fustiness and mildew of a thousand years. That was only the beginning. Later not only the hardcore members of the movement turned against the entire establishment.

Over here students are brainwashed from day one in school so it takes them a little bit longer to understand the system they are in and for what purpose the above mentioned tools are used. I estimate it will take no longer than two or three student generations feeling the heat and pressure of Globalisation and ASEAN to make them realize they were betrayed by a system established and defended only by people who benefit from it.

Yeah, I know I’m an old hippie. However there is a lot of truth in the lyrics of a Bob Dylan song:

Come senators, congressmen

Please heed the call

Don't stand in the doorway

Don't block up the hall

For he that gets hurt

Will be he who has stalled

There's a battle outside

And it is ragin'

It'll soon shake your windows

And rattle your walls

For the times they are a-changin'.

Sadly too many of these "teachers" would have flunked Dylan

for not conforming to standard prose composition forms.

Just as they railed against Finnegan's Wake and other advances in literary thought.

[lifeincnx]

Hooray for this student for applying critical thinking and logic against a wave of intolerance and ancient disciplinary hogwash.

SHE BROKE NO RULE - only the science teacher who demanded his students wear uniforms in class did. Yet that key fact seems to go unreported in virtually every story on the topic.

Thammasat University's policy was that students should dress appropriately and uniforms were recommended but not required. This hold out from a bygone era teacher stepped on the policy by demanding ALL students wear uniforms in his classroom or they would not be admitted. Why is he not the subject for disciplinarian action?

The latest arcane development is conservative companies have called for her immediate expelling or they won't hire Thammasat UNiversity students after graduation. Their reason - fear her type won't adhere to company policy (even though she adhered to school policy?).

Here's the answer to that - publish the names of those compaines and make a stand with your wallet by not buying either their products or services.

Cheers to the brave girl as well as her parents for remaining by her side. I for one applaud your actions.

Edited September 14, 2013 by lifeincnx

[Thai at Heart]

hehehehe love it when a thread brings out the pompous.

Me too, particularly when they write "mainly by bitter people who have no sense of what Thai culture is"

I would be grateful if someone would enlighten me as to what Thai culture

I have my own thoughts or understanding on the subject which I won't go into here (but it's not pretty)

Apparently Thai culture involves a white shirt and black pants or shirt?????

[kirk0233]

Someone asked this question in another thread on a similar topic, but it was never answered. Does a 50 year old who is returning to university for a degree have to wear a uniform? It would be more than absurd if he or she did, but perhaps someone who works in a unvierity in Thailand can answer this question. An age limit to the uniform requirement for students?

[culicine]

Someone asked this question in another thread on a similar topic, but it was never answered. Does a 50 year old who is returning to university for a degree have to wear a uniform? It would be more than absurd if he or she did, but perhaps someone who works in a unvierity in Thailand can answer this question. An age limit to the uniform requirement for students?

Not sure. I don't think Thailand has a culture educating mature-age students. I don't have anything to do with universities here, but the majority seem to me young people out of school, who go to university here. In contrast, large numbers of 'older' people attend university in Australia. Most were over 30 in my teaching course; I was later 30's but i wasn't the oldest in the group:)

[kirk0233]

Someone asked this question in another thread on a similar topic, but it was never answered. Does a 50 year old who is returning to university for a degree have to wear a uniform? It would be more than absurd if he or she did, but perhaps someone who works in a unvierity in Thailand can answer this question. An age limit to the uniform requirement for students?

Not sure. I don't think Thailand has a culture educating mature-age students. I don't have anything to do with universities here, but the majority seem to me young people out of school, who go to university here. In contrast, large numbers of 'older' people attend university in Australia. Most were over 30 in my teaching course; I was later 30's but i wasn't the oldest in the group:)

It is the same in the USA. Could it be that education is so tedious here that no one considers changing careers and going back to school? I think the Thai system must discourage life-long learning.

[Somtamnication]

Ahh, Thailand's future leaders are training to.................. lead. Mob school, that is all it is.

[hellodolly]

Discipline in young adults needs to come from within and not externally forced. Uniforms, following rules, are all ingrained in conformity. Universities should be trying to develop independent thinkers and thus our future leaders in research. It probably explains why Thailand lags so far behind in research - students are never taught individuality and to take responsibility for their own actions. Students will achieve, or fail, regardless of what they wear or how they keep their hair. If they choose to not attend lessons - fine. Give them the final test, then they fail. They repeat the unit or drop out. It's simple. Lets students take responsibility. Most of them are already adults!

It all sounds good but

"students are never taught individuality and to take responsibility for their own actions"

Don't you think college is a little late to be teaching that.I have no personal opinion on uniforms at the college level seems a little bit late in life for that but who knows. In the earlier years I do agree with it as properly done it can help inspire school pride in a small way.

Just my two satong worth.

Edited September 14, 2013 by hellodolly

[tingtong]

can debate all day about the uniform.

as much as it worth, my thoughts:

a uniform, apart from everything else, ensures equality amongst the kids, and in today's money oriented Thailand, that means a lot!

the less fortunate ( but rather smart kids, without corrution to get in the uni) wont have to feel second class not flashing the latest fashion labels, or the most expensive shoes.

with uniform, they blend it, while in the uni, they are equal by the look.

without uniform...not.

and yes, i would love to give a honest mid-term or final test to everyone, and THEN the uniform matter would be the student's least problem now at mid-term!!!

[tilac2]

And what do you all think of these three aspects of the Thai university education system that I myself have observed?

1. Thai students in their first months at university wear large, A4-size, placards on string around their necks as they walk around campus (in their uniforms). These A4 placards seem to include their name and some other information.

2. Lectures in Thailand's universities seem to consist of the lecturer standing at the front of the class and speaking for a long time with no response expected (or maybe tolerated?) from the students. This speech from the lecturer is amplified through loud-speakers.

3. Thai university students regularly play chanting games and other sorts of games on campus, sometimes involving the loud beating of drums, somewhat similar to the games that children play in the west.

As someone who is allowed to live in Thailand through being granted a visa (which could also, presumably, be withdrawn), I will not venture an opinion on these three observations, apart from stating that these aspects of the Thai university system are not ones that I have seen among university students in the Americas or in Europe. Possibly I am wrong about this, and I am ready to be corrected by a higher authority.

By the way, here is one opinion that I will express: I do believe that the wearing of uniforms is a good idea for schoolchildren.

[RubbaJohnny]

Yet in spite of the best efforts to make the young ape the old change not always for the best always occurs.

Even village kids have access to the greatest encyclopedia ever the interwebs and may all attain the intellectual capacity of say George Bush or David Beckham if only by Osmosis.Their free market acumen beats the pampered west.

I think this lucky country will have no problems earning a living in the future,

How the national cake is shared wil remain nuanced but the cake is growing and endless supply of poor neighbours as cheap labour and relatiely rich retirees leaves the Siamese cat licking its lips served by Lao handmaids ,karen sweepers and Kachin gardeners,they even have pet white teachers to entertain the Hi-So kids.

Hard to think of any other country with such good relations with both India USA and China.

Edited September 14, 2013 by RubbaJohnny

[handsomeATM]

The fascist gypsies

need to fade away

for the children to play.

[seajae]

this just goes to show how childish thai students are and that they are not capable of anything adult at all. They have no idea of how to actually act their age or show any signs of rational thinking, in fact if they were actually graded on the work they did they would mostly fail to pass any tests at all. They are not capable of sitting exams and passing, instead they rely on the system giving them a pass mark to avoid losing face. How in the hell they think that these adolescent behaviours can gain them any respect I have no idea, maybe when they are capable of acting their age and using their own intelligence we will see some difference but until such time we will continue to see this pathetic attention seeking crap that belongs in a kindergarten. Thailand needs to start grading students on their actual own work, not just making every students grade a pass mark, until they do we will continue to see all these actions of inter school brawls/stabbings, hitler dress ups etc, these children are not capable of being anything other than adolescent misfits.