Chaos on Pattaya's Roads

[Udox]

Not that long ago, it was generally acepted that at red traffic lights, you were allowed to turn left if the road was clear. It also applied to some junctions where there was no left turn but the left lane going straight was allowed to go through a red light. We all knew where we stood.

Recently, signs have been going up at junctions saying "turn left waiting light' (i.e. wait for the green light before turning left). That was later followed by 'straight through' juntions displaying a sign "red light stop here" (i.e. everyone must stop for the red light).

The problem is that most people aren't aware of which junctions you can turn left or go straight at a red light and which ones you can't. Even those with the huge sign saying 'turn left - waiting light' seem to get ignored by the majority of drivers.

Today I suffered abuse because I stopped at a red light next to the sign which read "red light stop here". A minian wanted to drive through the red light - but couldn;t because I had stopped my motorbike and refused to disobey the traffic signs. He beeped his horn, flashed his lights then verbally abused me - simply because I was obeying the law.

I am now told that the sign saying "red light stop here" - doesn't apply beteen 6pm and 6am - confused? you bet I am

Can anyone tell me what is the legal position? Am I suposed to stop at any red light, can I turn left if there isn't a sign telling me otherwise?

I am well aware this is a new source of income for the BiB who wait around the corner of busy junctions catching people turning left at red lights - but the simple fact is - everyone is confused - especially me ! I want to obey the road law - but nobody seems to know what it is!

Whats the answer? somebody please tell me as I don't want a repeat of todays abuse.

[jbrain]

The sign saying "red light stop here" - doesn't apply to the far left lane that get's the right to go tthrough

[Udox]

The sign saying "red light stop here" - doesn't apply to the far left lane that get's the right to go tthrough

Not at every junction!

[jbrain]

The sign saying "red light stop here" - doesn't apply to the far left lane that get's the right to go tthrough

Not at every junction!

You're right, presumably only at those junctions that have a far left lane that has the right to go through, which I guess was the case at the junction you mention.

[Udox]

Didn't those junctions used to have a sign saying something like "left lane through" ?

Wouldn't it have been a little clearer to put 'red light stop here except left lane through" ?

And what constitutes a 'far left lane' ? far left of two lanes or three?

seems like if i stop now I am wrong and if i go through I am wrong also.

seems like they are trying to remind Thais that red light means stop (except in some circumstances) - I need a lie down

[Spalpeen]

If in doubt, stop when there's a red light in front of you. I've never heard of the cops booking anyone for waiting at a red light, but they certainly nick people for driving through one. As for the idiots who try to force you to run the light, stand your ground and let them wait. They're only big men when they're safely inside a vehicle. Even if you sometimes have the right to turn left on a red light you can still only do so when it's safe. If you don't think it's safe, then wait.

[jbrain]

I've never heard of the cops booking anyone for waiting at a red light,

Don't give them thoughts mate. While you're waiting for a red light they have the time to think how they gonna get some money out of that pesky white nose

[bangkokstick]

Just don't care, there is no immediate danger, so why wasting your time about this ?

[blackman]

Just don't care, there is no immediate danger, so why wasting your time about this ?

why waste your time if you don't care?

[somtampet]

I suppose the rule of thumb is to park in the centre lane if u want to go straight,we all know that thais abuse this law,but believe it or notthe cops stop thais also.I tried to turn left a few weeks ago and got dont 400 baht,and believe it or not it DIDNT go in the cops pocket,it went to soi 9 police station,will that be city hall????

[somtampet]

btw

CHAOS IN PATTAYA ROADS IS A BIT OVER THE TOP,WHERE IS THE CHAOS ????

[joepattaya1961]

If in doubt, stop when there's a red light in front of you. I've never heard of the cops booking anyone for waiting at a red light,

in my home-country (slightly retarded, I know) you can get fined for obstructing traffic when waiting for a green light

As for the OP: Yes, it's not easy. As with most regulations, laws and rules......local authorities are allowed to "bend" the rules up to their discretion.

[DD13]

Perhaps "Thai visa" moderators could clear this confusion up for us by asking the Police .....

Also explaining to them the confusion that we from the West experience with the "sketchy" signage

[topt]

This topic has been discussed a couple of times this year but the OP's comment about it not applying 6pm-6am is new to me - does anybody know for sure?

[morrobay]

The real problem is minivans and minivan drivers

Edited September 15, 2013 by morrobay

[petercool]

On most two lanes each way roads the left lane can be for straight ahead or left turn unless clearly marked otherwise. So stopping in the left lane when the sign says so or when in doubt should be expected by the vehicle behind to mean that I might go either direction and I just let them wait to see which one I take. They are not the one risking a fine. Any left turn exemptions for specific times is new to me though.

[Gsxrnz]

If on a scooter (and wanting to go straight ahead) I never stop in the left hand lane. I always pull into the second lane, if there's a vehicle there I'll pull in front of it. The signage about stopping/left turns/waiting traffic etc is far too confusing and if you stop you'll likely wear a mini van up your jacksie.

Most major intersections have a space for bikes labelled as such, and if not, most Thai drivers park short of the line leaving a space for bikes. (take note - most Falang car drivers don't leave that space. If you don't, I recommend that you consider doing so. Mainly because it's safer for all involved if the bikes are in front of you when the green comes on, rather than beside you. Of course if you're territorial, no problem!)

If in my truck and going straight ahead I avoid that left lane for the reasons the OP mentions. Plus, the left lane even for driving a truck in a straight line is courting disaster anyway.

However, if I'm turning left (on the bike or truck), I'll slow, check for the BIB around the corner, and go for it, irrespective of what the signs says or doesn't say. Have occasionally seen the BIB around the corner especially at Klang/3rd Road. I just stop as soon as I see him, even though halfway around the corner. Once he laughed and waved me on, once he gave me the evils but didn't do anything. I did get a ticket there 3 years ago but I was a bit green back then.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Gsxrnz

[jbrain]

Perhaps "Thai visa" moderators could clear this confusion up for us by asking the Police .....

That could be tricky, I heard that most are on the wanted list .

[boldface]

I have a ticket I need to pay because of this. Turned left at Tony's Gym straight into the arms of two coppers. Straight into his book and I asked if I could pay an on the spot fine to which a copper told me "Thailand Police No Corruption". I actually laughed so hard I blew the horn accidentally.

For the last week, no matter what, I stop and wait and only go through is a couple go through before me.

[thrilled]

Drive like the thai's. If ya get caught you'll pay 100 baht fine or whatever.

[JSixpack]

I have a ticket I need to pay because of this. Turned left at Tony's Gym straight into the arms of two coppers. Straight into his book and I asked if I could pay an on the spot fine to which a copper told me "Thailand Police No Corruption". I actually laughed so hard I blew the horn accidentally.

For the last week, no matter what, I stop and wait and only go through is a couple go through before me.

Don't rely too strongly on that rule. On a similar occasion, I waited until a Thai girl went before me. Turned out a cop was standing just around the corner. Guess who was completely ignored and who got a ticket? Yep.

You can drive like a Thai as long as a cop isn't watching for the particular offense you commit. If I'd, say, driven on the wrong side of the road rather than make that turn before the light changed, no problem.

[Pattaya28]

If you're on a motor bike and

"A" make an illegal left turn with

"B" no safety helmet on and

"C" have the wife and 2 kids on the bike and are

"D" intoxicated,

what is the maximum fine that can be expected ???

[lemel]

Yesterday,I was crossing central road while on 3rd road and was watching a copper stopping everybody (Thai & Falang) turning left on too 3rd road from Pattaya Klang, it was very funny as he was running out of places left for them to pull over! he was also writing out tickets and did not seem to be taking money!

[SickOfEm]

If you're on a motor bike and

"A" make an illegal left turn with

"B" no safety helmet on and

"C" have the wife and 2 kids on the bike and are

"D" intoxicated,

what is the maximum fine that can be expected ???

a bag of sand

[somtampet]

If on a scooter (and wanting to go straight ahead) I never stop in the left hand lane. I always pull into the second lane, if there's a vehicle there I'll pull in front of it. The signage about stopping/left turns/waiting traffic etc is far too confusing and if you stop you'll likely wear a mini van up your jacksie.

Most major intersections have a space for bikes labelled as such, and if not, most Thai drivers park short of the line leaving a space for bikes. (take note - most Falang car drivers don't leave that space. If you don't, I recommend that you consider doing so. Mainly because it's safer for all involved if the bikes are in front of you when the green comes on, rather than beside you. Of course if you're territorial, no problem!)

If in my truck and going straight ahead I avoid that left lane for the reasons the OP mentions. Plus, the left lane even for driving a truck in a straight line is courting disaster anyway.

However, if I'm turning left (on the bike or truck), I'll slow, check for the BIB around the corner, and go for it, irrespective of what the signs says or doesn't say. Have occasionally seen the BIB around the corner especially at Klang/3rd Road. I just stop as soon as I see him, even though halfway around the corner. Once he laughed and waved me on, once he gave me the evils but didn't do anything. I did get a ticket there 3 years ago but I was a bit green back then.

Thats where i go t caught,no excuses, i knew what the sign meant,as do everybody else, i didnt moan about police corruption,tea money blardy blardy bla.I showed my driving license,my mistake, i got the car one out,he excepted this,dined me 400 baht,kept my license,told me to go pay at soi 9 and return for said license.No nastiness,no asking for money, and 10 years of living here has been the same

[somtampet]

If you're on a motor bike and

"A" make an illegal left turn with

"B" no safety helmet on and

"C" have the wife and 2 kids on the bike and are

"D" intoxicated,

what is the maximum fine that can be expected ???

TRY IT AND REPORT BACK .

As i have never heard anybody do that before,

[gmac]

The funniest thing about about all this fining for illegal left turns is that they used to be legal so the left lane is usually left completely empty so that people CAN turn left while huge queues build up in the remaining lane.

[JSixpack]

Not that long ago, it was generally acepted that at red traffic lights, you were allowed to turn left if the road was clear. . . . We all knew where we stood.

Recently, signs have been going up at junctions saying "turn left waiting light' (i.e. wait for the green light before turning left). That was later followed by 'straight through' juntions displaying a sign "red light stop here" (i.e. everyone must stop for the red light).

So you still know where you stand. The signs tell you at which intersections you stop. I don't see anybody being fined for turning at intersections where there's no "wait" sign. So I don't think the law's changed. That is, it's still generally accepted that you don't have to wait at intersections lacking signs.

The problem is that most people aren't aware of which junctions you can turn left or go straight at a red light and which ones you can't.

Even those with the huge sign saying 'turn left - waiting light' seem to get ignored by the majority of drivers.

You're confused by Thai driving habits. Thais aren't big on obeying traffic rules. They may well not bother to read the sign or read it and then ignore it at their own convenience. Observe.

Today I suffered abuse because I stopped at a red light next to the sign which read "red light stop here". A minian wanted to drive through the red light - but couldn;t because I had stopped my motorbike and refused to disobey the traffic signs. He beeped his horn, flashed his lights then verbally abused me - simply because I was obeying the law.

Yep. You interfered with a minivan driver's overwhelming urge to break the law. But he'll get over it.

If I'm on a bike, I'll leave room for the lawbreakers to do as they please. It's always entertaining to watch others stopped and fined, no?

Am I suposed to stop at any red light, can I turn left if there isn't a sign telling me otherwise?

. . .

Whats the answer? somebody please tell me as I don't want a repeat of todays abuse.

If there's a sign implying stop, then you stop. But maybe the sign is in Thai only, heh heh. The most infamous example was at 2nd Rd at Pattaya Klang, at the police box. Since the sign was written in Thai only, thousands of farangs got fined over the years. It was quite the earner. Of course some Thais got fined too, but far fewer.

Well, stay here long enough and you'll surely feel "abused" again about something at some point. To read this forum, you'd swear abuse is epidemic. Some believe that changing the beach promenade has abused them.

Mai pen rai. Pull over at the nearest beer bar and chill out with the ladies. They have their ways of smoothing over ruffled feathers.

[brummiebob]

This is the only sign in the Highway Code that means 'Free Left Turn' Yes, there's never accompanied by English,

Unless you see this sign, it means you must stop. Yes, the other cars behind you will honk, but he won't pay your fine should you turn left into the arms of a waiting policeman

other sign like 'no waiting red' or other such nonsence used in Pattaya has no legal standing except to even further confuse us with the police's limited English

[Udox]

This topic has been discussed a couple of times this year but the OP's comment about it not applying 6pm-6am is new to me - does anybody know for sure?

Coming from Pattaya Nua Road on Sukhumvit, towards Takien Tia / Laem Chabang the first lights you come to outside the SCB bank, have a huge sign in English and Thai "Red light stop here". Thats where I stopped and was at the mercy of irate drivers behind me.

I have now clarified that the new, very small sign above it - in Thai only, says that between 6pm and 6am, you can go straight through on a red light. Contrary to the huge sign below that says red light stop here.

I go through this junction every day - even the Thai drivers are confused. If you want to see road rage, just watch the traffic here for a few minutes when the lights go red.

The outcome is then - that some you can go through, some you can't, some have a sign, some don't. Some you can turn left, some you can't. And most (Thai) drivers will do what they want irrespective of any sign or lane markings. It's Clear as mud!