Who owns the property?

[rclans]

I have a Thai uncle married to a foreigner and owns a house & lot in Thailand. He bought this small property in Thailand so that his niece have place to stay but he never mention this to his wife.

He died last month and now his brothers & sisters are planning to sell the land. Do you think that's possible? Does his wife have rights to take ownership of the land or give it to her Thai niece instead?

My uncle doesn't have parents or children and he only go to Thailand once every two years.

[AyG]

If she was legally married (i.e. not just a ceremony at a temple), then she is entitled to half her husband's estate. She will, however,as a foreigner, legally be required to dispose of the land within 12 months.

Her in-laws should not be able to sell the land without her consent. However, in Thailand, there are few rules and regulations that can't be bypassed with a little tea money.

[ThaidDown]

If he made a will then distribution is made according to that, with no will distribution will be according to law. Further information here http://www.samuiforsale.com/knowledge/inheritance-laws-thailand.html

As AyG says, if a foreigner the land should be sold or transferred to a Thai within the 1 year period.

[technologybytes]

My understanding is that it may be complicated if the land was purchased prior to marriage.

And, this being Thailand, there is a difference between what should happen and what will happen.

At the time that any man in Thailand buys land, the land office will ask if he is married. Then before it's sold the wife will need to sign a disclaimer. If he was single at the time the chanote was issued then it's potentially a problem as there may be no request for a wife's signature before the land is transferred.

If the wife knows that he bought it for a niece, why does she feel she has a moral claim on it, let alone a legal one. It's not as if it was ever a marital home.

[loong]

My understanding is that it may be complicated if the land was purchased prior to marriage.

And, this being Thailand, there is a difference between what should happen and what will happen.

At the time that any man in Thailand buys land, the land office will ask if he is married. Then before it's sold the wife will need to sign a disclaimer. If he was single at the time the chanote was issued then it's potentially a problem as there may be no request for a wife's signature before the land is transferred.

If the wife knows that he bought it for a niece, why does she feel she has a moral claim on it, let alone a legal one. It's not as if it was ever a marital home.

Did you not see in the OP?

Does his wife have rights to take ownership of the land or give it to her Thai niece instead?

This does not suggest that the wife feels that she has a moral claim, but may be thinking that it should go to the niece

[Mario2008]

If there is no will, the property will be divided according to the law.

Some more info here:

http://thailawonline.com/en/family/inheritance-and-wills.html

Yes, the wife can give her portion to the niece.

[hotlipstom]

Let me ask if it was the other way around and the foreigner bought the land when he married for his wife built a house and the foreigner out lived her would he get everything? would her family have any claims?

[Mario2008]

Let me ask if it was the other way around and the foreigner bought the land when he married for his wife built a house and the foreigner out lived her would he get everything? would her family have any claims?

That is a totaly different discussion, thus off topic.

You better open your own thread for that question.

[Naroge]

OP doesn't mention what type of documents the land is registered under. I understand that in certain cases, especially if the land documents are "lower" than Chanote, a person that has occupied the land for a long time has certain rights to the land, especially if no proper lease/rent agreement was signed. In such case the niece could, if she wanted, claim certain rights.

Professional advice is definitely needed to get this right.

[Arkady]

There are many variables in this situation. The OP doesn't mention whether the uncle was legally married to the foreign lady or whether he left a will or not. However, if they were legally married, his widow will rank on a par with the children which is a higher claim than brothers and sisters. Since there are no children, she is technically in a strong position to claim at least 50% of the value. Even if there is a will that doesn't name her as a beneficiary, a surviving spouse still has a strong claim because Thai law doesn't allow a testator to exclude his immediate family in a will.

She had better get herself a lawyer quick and assert a claim to the estate with the Land Office, so that the land cannot be transferred without a court ruling settling the estate. Once they have sold it, she will have to sue them individually which will be hopeless as they will spend the proceeds immediately. As noted above, there is a strong risk that Land Dept officials will take bribes to register an illegal transfer of the land.

If the land was purchased before the 1999 Interior Ministry directive, Thai men with foreign wives able to buy land without restriction. It was only after that that all Thais with foreign spouses were obliged to sign the declaration. Since the widow was not told of the purchase, it seems unlikely that she ever signed this declaration that would have forfeited her right to the property. In any case, this forfeit only applies to conjugal property that may be divided in the event of divorce. In the event of death the concept of conjugal property is no longer relevant and the surviving spouse is entitled to their lawful share of the estate including land which they may have agreed will not be considered as conjugal property.

[zxray]

Let me ask if it was the other way around and the foreigner bought the land when he married for his wife built a house and the foreigner out lived her would he get everything? would her family have any claims?

I have considered this, I think that in my case, I would continue to live with my wife's family even if I were to remarry. I knew that the home and land would belong to my wife, and her family.

[Arkady]

Let me ask if it was the other way around and the foreigner bought the land when he married for his wife built a house and the foreigner out lived her would he get everything? would her family have any claims?

Yes, her family would have a claim, even if she specifically willed 100% of the land to her husband. This is from the French law on which the Civil Code is drawn and you find the same thing in Spain and other European countries that use Roman law. Spouse is however on the same level as children. For protection of your right to occupy in the event of your wife predeceasing you, it is advisable to register a lifetime usufruct agreement. It is not 100% watertight but is another layer of protection to help keep the barbarians from the gate in the worst case scenario. Unfortunately there are many cases where relatives have heartlessly evicted a grieving spouse or partner. I know of one horrible case where that happened to a lovely Thai lady whose Thai partner was killed by a snake bite before they could register their marriage. She found herself evicted from their beautiful house right after the funeral.

[Arkady]

Let me ask if it was the other way around and the foreigner bought the land when he married for his wife built a house and the foreigner out lived her would he get everything? would her family have any claims?

I have considered this, I think that in my case, I would continue to live with my wife's family even if I were to remarry. I knew that the home and land would belong to my wife, and her family.

This sounds like an optimistic scenario for most people. Your in laws might be exceptional but most would would not want their former son in law plus new Thai wife to stay on is such circs and would probably want the cash.

[dighambara]

Let me ask if it was the other way around and the foreigner bought the land when he married for his wife built a house and the foreigner out lived her would he get everything? would her family have any claims?

A friend's wife died, leaving him, a foreigner, as beneficiary. He went to the attorney's office to sign the proper document, which would start the 1 year clock, and instead, collected up all the papers and took them home, where they stayed in his safe, until he remarried 4 years later.

He and his new wife enjoy living on the estate he and his dead wife designed and built.

[HerbalEd]

If she was legally married (i.e. not just a ceremony at a temple), then she is entitled to half her husband's estate. She will, however,as a foreigner, legally be required to dispose of the land within 12 months.

Her in-laws should not be able to sell the land without her consent. However, in Thailand, there are few rules and regulations that can't be bypassed with a little tea money.

Isn't a legal wife entitled to 100%? If not then who gets the other 50%?

[billd766]

In my case I am legally married and though the land was bought before the marriage the house was built afterwards.

However in both of our wills the house and land are to be given to our 9 year old son.

If I die first (the most likely case) there is no problem. If she dies first our son inherits and as I am his father and also will be his guardian I get to stay here until his majority and he still has the land and property.

When he reaches his majority it will be up to him if I stay or get thrown out.

Perhaps I shoud be nicer to him.