What are you diabetics eating for breakfast?

[chiang mai]

Omlettes of almost any type, veggie filled and or sliced sausage etc, even better if you can make an omlette out of egg whites only.

Toast as previously discussed, Butter is Better in CM sells all grain bread that is highly rated, haven't tried it myself yet but others say it's very good.

Continental breakfasts work, meat, cheese, yogurt, salmon if you can get it and small amounts of blueberries/raspberries - Makro (the cash and carry)

supermarkets sell chinese blueberries and raspberries by the 500 gram and 1 kg bags, the latter is sensibly priced at 240 ish., not too sweet but OK if cut with yogurt!

Anything you can eat that will accept ground flaxseed, two tablespoons a day on something like porridge works wonders for the digstive system, 4 grams of fibre right there, add it to oats and fruit and you're nearly at your minimum fibre requirement for the day.

Whole grain toast (bread) is no better for diabetics than plain bread. Its better for your body than plain bread but in the diabetics case,any bread is off the menu.

That's not quite correct, the higher the fiber content and the lower the refined carbs, the lower it is on the glycemic index hence the more time it takes to pass through the small bowel and the slower the absorption process, that all translates into a lower blood glucose spike and a curve that is flatter for longer. Example: one slice of white bread might produce a spike of say 200 for two hours whereas one slice of all (true) grain bread by comparison might produce a spike of say 150 for three hours.

From experience there are some whole grain breads that I can eat although as always, moderation is the key. One such example is a German/Dutch packaged bread product sold at tops which bears little resemblance to the palette of a true bread lover but is quite acceptable to many diabetics, including myself. FWIW I'm one year into my Type II and I've now started to reintroduce bread rice and potato into my diet having starved myself of them for almost a year, it's working out really quite well with no discernible change in my numbers. I also just finished half a small tirisamu which six or nine months ago would have been unimaginable.

[tropo]

Eggs are definitely off the breakfast menu to stay healthy.

That video is nonsense.

"The amount that one egg a day raises cholesterol in the blood is extremely small, so small in fact that the increase in risk in heart disease related to this change in serum cholesterol could never be detected in any kind of study," said Walter Willett, professor of epidemiology and nutrition at Harvard's School of Public Health."Elevations in LDL of this small magnitude could easily be countered by other healthy aspects of eggs."

http://www.livescience.com/39353-eggs-dont-deserve-bad-reputation.html

I've had my blood cholesterol checked after months on 6 or more eggs per day and it was under 200.

Eggs are a fantastic breakfast for type 2 diabetics.

[tropo]

The above seems to support the idea of getting a C-peptide test to understand what your levels of insulin production are.

Have you had a peptide C test in Thailand? If so, how much did it cost?

[Mobi]

Been Type two diabetic for over 30 years and inject insulin 4 times a day.

My usual breakfast is a small bowl of fruit muesli (non-nut) mixed with some shredded wheat and a bit of all bran, topped off with half an apple (freshly sliced). Mix with zero fat milk.

I emphasise that all quantities must be small, but it is very filling and of course great for the digestive system and provides the 'roughage' that us diabetics need.

An occasional alternative can be two pieces of wholemeal toast, maybe topped with a lightly poached egg, plus the half apple.

A small glass of freshly squeezed orange juice is also good for you.

Don't be too paranoid about keeping away from all sugar - small amounts in moderation are fine, although if you are not taking insulin you need to be a bit more careful.

Best idea is to try out some new ideas, then check you blood sugar level after a couple of hours and make sure it is still within acceptable bounds.

Good luck

Orange juice is loaded with sugar. Not recommended for diabetics. Unless your talking about a spoonful a day.

I'm talking about 1 small glass of freshly squeezed - i.e. buy the oranges and do it yourself, so no added 'rubbish' - per day. And I did emphasise that you need to check your sugar levels to ensure that you are still OK with this amount of sugar.

If not, don't take it, but it works for me and it's very healthy.

Anything in moderation is OK, don't get too worked up about how much sugar it contains. Use your own common sense on whether it might be over the top. One of the good things about taking insulin as opposed to tablets is that if you know you have taken a lot of sugar - say in a chocolate cake or whatever - then you can adjust your insulin dose accordingly to counteract the negative effects.

I concede that Type 2 diabetics on tablets or who control their condition by diet have to be more careful.

[chiang mai]

The above seems to support the idea of getting a C-peptide test to understand what your levels of insulin production are.

Have you had a peptide C test in Thailand? If so, how much did it cost?

I haven't but it's somewhere on my agenda (!), my local hospital is really inexpensive for all manner of tests and it's easily available - I'm currently trying to understand the vitamin B thingy but will put the C-peptide test on my list for next month and report back.

[Mobi]

Type II Diabetes is not reversible, end of story.

That's not completely correct, but I also think that the guy who claimed that it was has got his blood sugar level numbers a bit confused.

For non-diabetics, blood sugar levels should be 72 –106 before meals. Two hours after meals, sugar levels should be under 140.

Sugar levels higher than the above mean that the person is diabetic.

I would love to have blood sugar levels regularly in the 80’s and I'm sorry, but if they were in the 50’s I would be having a severe hypo and in danger of dying.

Is type 2 diabetes reversible?

Well for people like me, who have a family history of diabetes then the answer is almost certainly no. My Grandmother, mother, sister and brother all either had or have type 1 or type 2 diabetes and all save one are insulin dependent. None of us, me included, were overweight when we were diagnosed. My mother was as thin as a rake and was type 2.

But clearly there are some type 2 diabetics who are clinically obese and control their condition with tablets who can, under certain extreme medically supervised conditions, reverse their condition.

A team at Newcastle University in the UK established this in 2011 and published a detailed paper on the results of their clinical trials.

The bottom line was that by sticking to an extreme diet of just 600 calories a day consisting of liquid diet drinks plus 200 calories of non-starchy vegetables, for two months and achieving a weight loss of around 15 kilos, type two diabetes can be reversed permanently – provided the patient doesn't subsequently put the weight back on again. Its all to do with removing the amount of fat in the liver and pancreas which was inhibiting the secretion of insulin.

This will clearly only work for some ‘border-line’ diabetics who are on tablets or control their condition by diet and the researchers emphasise that such an extreme diet should only be undertaken under close medical supervision.

Personally, I find it somewhat irritating when people stumble across sensational websites that claim that diabetes is curable and tell us that because we are type 2, all our problems are over and that our condition is reversible. All we need to do is to go on ‘this’ or ‘that’ miracle diet.

It really isn't that simple, and for a vast majority of diabetics, no amount of dieting will reverse their condition, although it will certainly help to improve their blood sugar control.

But there again, why should we believe someone who has no medical knowledge and who posts on Thai visa, when we are all perfectly capable of doing our own internet research and discovering the real facts for ourselves.

For those who can’t be bothered to do that, here is the link to the Newcastle study.

Diabetes research

[chiang mai]

In some people, some of the symptoms of Type II can be reversed and managed as long as the patient continues to follow a fairly strict diet, Type II Diabetes in itself cannot however be reversed or cured across the board.

And the 600 calorie a day diet that you mention can be a part of reversing some symptoms in some people, the ability of the body to regenerate insulin producing cells and/or to reverse intolerance to insulin cannot be reversed, the caveat appears to be that early detection of pre-diabetes does allow an opportunity to eliminate fatty liver etc which may permit normal insulin production to resume.

Please note the liberal sprinkling of some and may!

[Mobi]

In some people, some of the symptoms of Type II can be reversed and managed as long as the patient continues to follow a fairly strict diet, Type II Diabetes in itself cannot however be reversed or cured across the board.

And the 600 calorie a day diet that you mention can be a part of reversing some symptoms in some people, the ability of the body to regenerate insulin producing cells and/or to reverse intolerance to insulin cannot be reversed, the caveat appears to be that early detection of pre-diabetes does allow an opportunity to eliminate fatty liver etc which may permit normal insulin production to resume.

Please note the liberal sprinkling of some and may!

Sorry Chiang Mai - you are wrong.

Read the paper, it was a highly respected, properly conducted, peer reviewed medical trial and the results have not been challenged.

Type 2 is permanently reversible for some type 2 diabetics, (7 of out 10 in the trial), and has opened up a whole new field of research into the causes and possible cures for type 2 diabetes. As a result of this research, a lot more is understood about the fat that builds up in the liver and pancreas and how it effects insulin production and how reducing these fat levels can permanently reverse the condition.

This is NOT about going on a strict diet to control your diabetes. This has been an established fact for many years. It is about curing it.

I clearly recall when the results were first published as it was publicised in all the major media. It is definitely a major break through.

[chiang mai]

In some people, some of the symptoms of Type II can be reversed and managed as long as the patient continues to follow a fairly strict diet, Type II Diabetes in itself cannot however be reversed or cured across the board.

And the 600 calorie a day diet that you mention can be a part of reversing some symptoms in some people, the ability of the body to regenerate insulin producing cells and/or to reverse intolerance to insulin cannot be reversed, the caveat appears to be that early detection of pre-diabetes does allow an opportunity to eliminate fatty liver etc which may permit normal insulin production to resume.

Please note the liberal sprinkling of some and may!

Sorry Chiang Mai - you are wrong.

Read the paper, it was a highly respected, properly conducted, peer reviewed medical trial and the results have not been challenged.

Type 2 is permanently reversible for some type 2 diabetics, (7 of out 10 in the trial), and has opened up a whole new field of research into the causes and possible cures for type 2 diabetes. As a result of this research, a lot more is understood about the fat that builds up in the liver and pancreas and how it effects insulin production and how reducing these fat levels can permanently reverse the condition.

This is NOT about going on a strict diet to control your diabetes. This has been an established fact for many years. It is about curing it.

I clearly recall when the results were first published as it was publicised in all the major media. It is definitely a major break through.

We disagree, but perhaps we don't, we don't if we can agree the word "some" although I wouldn't want to quantify that "some" (nor the stage they of diabetes they were in) - and I have read a couple of these studies previously.

The fact remains that the OGT (Oral Glucose Test) remains the gold standard for determining insulin resistance, I've not read in any of these studies that anyone who was supposedly cured has been able to pass that test and it has been raised repeatedly. That is not to say that the diet approach in some of .........., you get the idea.

EDIT: sorry Mobi but I just clicked on your link, I thought it was to another study hence I didn't go there sooner. Heads up, eleven people in a study is not a study, there's nothing to discuss here in respect of this article, sorry.

Edited December 11, 2013 by chiang mai

[lensta]

Anyone know where I can buy cinammom in Bangkok?

If you want cinnamon for baking or to put in your coffee in small ammounts, you can find that anywhere. But if you want to buy cinnamon powder for medical reasons you need to be very careful. Cinnamon from Indonseia/ThailndChina/SE Asia is very harmful in larger doses, google "coumarin" and read all about liver toxicity. The only safe alternatibve is cinnamon from Ceylon which appears not to be available in Thailand and was the subject of a seperate thread (by me) about two months ago - is available by mail order.

http://www.thaiherbsbyta1960.com/

[chiang mai]

Anyone know where I can buy cinammom in Bangkok?

If you want cinnamon for baking or to put in your coffee in small ammounts, you can find that anywhere. But if you want to buy cinnamon powder for medical reasons you need to be very careful. Cinnamon from Indonseia/ThailndChina/SE Asia is very harmful in larger doses, google "coumarin" and read all about liver toxicity. The only safe alternatibve is cinnamon from Ceylon which appears not to be available in Thailand and was the subject of a seperate thread (by me) about two months ago - is available by mail order.

http://www.thaiherbsbyta1960.com/

a nice try but sorry, that's still not Cinnamon from Ceylon!

[lensta]

Anyone know where I can buy cinammom in Bangkok?

If you want cinnamon for baking or to put in your coffee in small ammounts, you can find that anywhere. But if you want to buy cinnamon powder for medical reasons you need to be very careful. Cinnamon from Indonseia/ThailndChina/SE Asia is very harmful in larger doses, google "coumarin" and read all about liver toxicity. The only safe alternatibve is cinnamon from Ceylon which appears not to be available in Thailand and was the subject of a seperate thread (by me) about two months ago - is available by mail order.

http://www.thaiherbsbyta1960.com/

a nice try but sorry, that's still not Cinnamon from Ceylon!

really?? What is it then cause I have ordered 2 bottles of it because it says ceylon cinnamon. Also, why is it a nice try?

[chiang mai]

If you want cinnamon for baking or to put in your coffee in small ammounts, you can find that anywhere. But if you want to buy cinnamon powder for medical reasons you need to be very careful. Cinnamon from Indonseia/ThailndChina/SE Asia is very harmful in larger doses, google "coumarin" and read all about liver toxicity. The only safe alternatibve is cinnamon from Ceylon which appears not to be available in Thailand and was the subject of a seperate thread (by me) about two months ago - is available by mail order.

http://www.thaiherbsbyta1960.com/

a nice try but sorry, that's still not Cinnamon from Ceylon!

really?? What is it then cause I have ordered 2 bottles of it because it says ceylon cinnamon. Also, why is it a nice try?

A quote from your link:

"1. Genuine Thai herb products (made in Thailand)"

Thai Cinnamon or indeed Cinnamon from anywhere in SE Asia contains so much coumarin that it is toxic in anything other than small doses, Google the subject and learn. Only Cinnamon from Ceylon provides the health care benefits that we read about.

Did you not read or understand the previous post?

Edited December 11, 2013 by chiang mai

[lensta]

If you want cinnamon for baking or to put in your coffee in small ammounts, you can find that anywhere. But if you want to buy cinnamon powder for medical reasons you need to be very careful. Cinnamon from Indonseia/ThailndChina/SE Asia is very harmful in larger doses, google "coumarin" and read all about liver toxicity. The only safe alternatibve is cinnamon from Ceylon which appears not to be available in Thailand and was the subject of a seperate thread (by me) about two months ago - is available by mail order.

http://www.thaiherbsbyta1960.com/

a nice try but sorry, that's still not Cinnamon from Ceylon!

really?? What is it then cause I have ordered 2 bottles of it because it says ceylon cinnamon. Also, why is it a nice try?

A quote from your link:

"1. Genuine Thai herb products (made in Thailand)"

Thai Cinnamon or indeed Cinnamon from anywhere in SE Asia contains so much coumarin that it is toxic in anything other than small doses, Google the subject and learn. Only Cinnamon from Ceylon provides the health care benefits that we read about.

Did you not read or understand the previous post?

Whats your problem?? a poster asked where they could buy ceylon cinnamon, I provided a link to where I purchased a product called 'ceylon cinnamon" up to them if they want to buy it or not.

[chiang mai]

Perhaps you should reread the thread and understand the difference between ceylon (small c) Cinnamon and Cinnamon from Ceylon (capital C), one may help your health and the other may end your life prematurely, that's my problem, clear now!

[tropo]

In some people, some of the symptoms of Type II can be reversed and managed as long as the patient continues to follow a fairly strict diet, Type II Diabetes in itself cannot however be reversed or cured across the board.

And the 600 calorie a day diet that you mention can be a part of reversing some symptoms in some people, the ability of the body to regenerate insulin producing cells and/or to reverse intolerance to insulin cannot be reversed, the caveat appears to be that early detection of pre-diabetes does allow an opportunity to eliminate fatty liver etc which may permit normal insulin production to resume.

Please note the liberal sprinkling of some and may!

Sorry Chiang Mai - you are wrong.

Read the paper, it was a highly respected, properly conducted, peer reviewed medical trial and the results have not been challenged.

Type 2 is permanently reversible for some type 2 diabetics, (7 of out 10 in the trial), and has opened up a whole new field of research into the causes and possible cures for type 2 diabetes. As a result of this research, a lot more is understood about the fat that builds up in the liver and pancreas and how it effects insulin production and how reducing these fat levels can permanently reverse the condition.

This is NOT about going on a strict diet to control your diabetes. This has been an established fact for many years. It is about curing it.

I clearly recall when the results were first published as it was publicised in all the major media. It is definitely a major break through.

I believe Chiang Mai is right on the money and you are wrong.

You admitted as much in the following statement you made in a post above:

You said:

Quote:

"type two diabetes can be reversed permanently – provided the patient doesn't subsequently put the weight back on again" (emphasis added)

The person who developed type 2 diabetes will go back to his previous diabetic condition if he goes back to his previous diet.

The people who develop diabetes probably have a genetic pre-disposition to diabetes, which cannot be cured as such.

You are confusing control and cure. Most people do. Doctors even confuse the two and confuse their patients while they're at it.

If you really want to test this point, the experiment would be easy. Get the "cured" people to eat what they did prior to their diabetic condition. The "cured" ones will not develop diabetes again as they were permanently "reversed" or "cured".

I believe this confusion of control and cure is very detrimental to an understanding of the disease and does no one any favours.

[ronz28]

I found a very interesting lecture in 6 parts which deals with food, health, over weight and Diabetes.

Everything is caused by high Insulin levels.

He claims that Diabetes can be reversed. Very interesting!

Well worth the time to watch.

Its certainly thought provoking. I am through 3 parts now and thought he was recommending Atkins diet for awhile but I guess he's presenting a lot of studies for background information and later refuting some. That will be clearer to me after finishing part 6. I like the concept of intermittent fasting by no snacking and limiting 3 meals per day to an eating window of 8 to 10 hours within a 24 hour period to prevent insulin resistance. I have heard about intermittent fasting from Dr. Mercola. Also found the part on high Cortisol causing weight gain to be interesting and that the different ways to reduce cortisol like active relaxation or meditation, massage, Yoga, etc

He mentioned sleep deprivation also contributes to a tripling of the rate of impaired fasting glucose levels but I didn't see references to specific supporting studies.

For me avoiding diabetes, related diseases and meds is the end game but for those who have it whether it can be reversed or controlled, the discussion here is all useful information.

He also mentioned vinegar to reduce insulin response spikes, lower glucose levels to blunt the effect of other things like bread, etc. and it makes you feel more full. Vinegar was brought up here previously.

Thanks for posting the link to this video, its long but I am learning some from it and am not sure I agree with some of it.

[ronz28]

Dr. Jason Fung just posted a new video discussing the results of treating diabetics with a dietary regiment primarily intermittent fasting, reducing/eliminate refined carbohydrates and polyunsaturated vegetable oils (corn, sunflower, etc.) in order to reduce one's insulin which reverses diabetes enough to get off of insulin (like 140 units of insulin a day) and then meds and stops diabetes from killing one's eyes, heart, kidneys, etc. He says high sugars are a symptom of the disease but one needs to treat the root cause of the disease, high insulin levels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAwgdX5VxGc&feature=c4-overview&list=UUoyL4iGArWn5Hu0V_sAhK2w

Edited December 12, 2013 by ronz28

[ronz28]

Here is Dr. Mercola's take on using intermittent fasting, limiting eating to a 6 to 8 hour window by skipping or delaying breakfast, to give your body time to burn through your daily store of carbohydrates and then burn a little fat each day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh0LclDcE1Y

Edited December 12, 2013 by ronz28

[tropo]

Here is Dr. Mercola's take on using intermittent fasting, limiting eating to a 6 to 8 hour window by skipping or delaying breakfast, to give your body time to burn through your daily store of carbohydrates and then burn a little fat each day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh0LclDcE1Y

LOL. Doesn't Dr Mercola already get enough coverage? His emails inundate more inboxes/spam folders than any other on the planet.

It really isn't necessary to go that far to reduce blood sugar numbers. Just clean up the diet and adjust carbohydrate consumption to a level necessary to keep numbers in the healthy zone.

[ronz28]

Sometimes people think they are cleaning up their diet by just ceasing to eat highly refined carbohydrates, (sugar & flour foods), and eating vegetables like bananas, lettuce, cucumbers, peaches, etc. during the day but actually they are not getting near the antioxidants needed if they deplete their antioxidant store in the body by eating some meat or having a little stress in their lives as Dr Greger discusses here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZQf-9rV9XM

Agree that quality of food is essential and to prevent diseases like diabetes, cancer, etc. I have done this by cutting out the highly refined carbs & other processed foods while adding fiber and high antioxidant foods in the diet like kale, spinach, broccoli, beans (kidney, pinto, little red) plus spices with High ORAC values like cloves, cinnamon, oregano & turmeric and now am watching the glycemic load which Dr. Greger doesn't seem to focus much on.

Also I have started the intermittent fasting techniques by delaying breakfast and cutting evening snacks previously discussed and have started to drop more weight, about 50 pounds year to date.

http://modernsurvivalblog.com/health/high-orac-value-antioxidant-foods-top-100/

[tim armstrong]

I had type 2 diabetes about 2.5 years ago, and the only thing that I did was got out any refined sugars, rice, pasta, white bread, cereals and started more excercising. for breakfast I would have my normal breakfast of eggs and a piece of whole wheat bread. My diabetic clinic told me not to drink any type of juices or banana's. Now 2.5 years later I have lost 55kgs and no longer have high blood sugar. Hope this helps

Wow! 55kgs. Good for you. I'm on the cusp of diabetes so I'm trying to be more sensible. For breakfast try - All Bran - found in better supermarkets like Villa etc.it has high fibre and low sugar. I use non fat Meiji milk or Yolida natural yoghurt which at last is a bit more available. I sometimes add thai non sweet fruit like 'farlang' or even apples. But I find if I become too obsessional, I break out, so don't be too hard on yourself. How do you have the eggs ?

[crocken]

Buy your self a glucose meter....available many pharmacy in thailand.

then stay away from carbs (rice,bread,pasta and all wheat especially whole grain)

google jimmy moore and learn about low carb eating.

after you eat a meal test your blood glucose on your meter and you will soon learn what to stay away from.

easy to do in thailand eat lots of veg and No fruit and no juice its all sugar (glucose)

[chiang mai]

But read the diabetics "bible" first:

http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/index.php

...then test, test and test.

Also, become very familiar with the glycemic index and choose your carbs by using it:

http://www.glycemicindex.com/