China clamps down on cheap tour packages to Phuket

[webfact]

China clamps down on cheap tour packages to Phuket
Naraporn Tuarob

PHUKET: -- Next Tuesday (October 1) sees the introduction of new Chinese government regulations covered outbound tourism, which could have a profound effect on the number and “quality” of Chinese tourists coming to Thailand and particularly Phuket.

The new rules are aimed at clamping down on low-quality, “zero-baht” tour packages that typically include air fare, hotel, meals and tours.

The first regulation limits outbound tour companies to sending no more than 5,000 people a year each to Thailand.

Tour companies will not be allowed to take customers to tourists “sights” (such as shops) that are not on their printed itineraries for tours that are included in packages. Any infringements will result in the company being barred from running package tours to Thailand.

The prices of package tours will be compared with what is offered. If the Chinese authorities feel that a package is too cheap, they will put it under a microscope and may withdraw the tour company’s operating license.

The new rules follow talks between Thai Tourism & Sports Minister Somsak Pureesrisak and senior Chinese officials, along with the Tourism Authority of Thailand.

At the end of May, Chinese Ambassador to Thailand Guan Mu urged Thailand to stop concentrating on numbers of tourists and look at quality.

In a meeting in Phuket with a variety of Thai officials and tourism industry representatives, he said he understood that it would be difficult to reduce the numbers of “zero-dollar tourists”, but that Thailand should try to do so because this was “not good for tourism in the long run”.

His remarks appeared to ring a bell with Mr Somsak, who is the first tourism minister in living memory to have questioned the “never mind the quality, look at the numbers” attitude of Thai governments of all stripes.

In August he opposed a suggestion, coming out of a meeting between Foreign Minister Surapong Tovichakchaikul and his Chinese counterpart Wang Yi, that Chinese tourists be allowed visa-exempt entry into Thailand.

He cited overcrowding and inadequacy of tourist facilities as reasons not to go ahead with the scheme, adding that he was worried that Thailand’s carrying capacity – tourist venues, accommodation and transport – would be overwhelmed.

The Tourism Ministry, he said, believes that creating a high-quality travel and tourism market is of the utmost importance.

The new Chinese rules are supported 100 per cent by Chanchai Duangji, Director of the TAT’s Phuket Office, who said on Thursday (September 19) that companies in China appear to be anticipating the rules and are already adjusting their tours, with the result that the numbers of Chinese coming to Phuket are already declining.

Thai inbound tour agencies have been catching a chill, but nevertheless, he said, “I support this measure. We have been trying to solve the problem about the zero-baht tour. Definitely the number will drop but there will come a tipping point after which we will see higher-quality tourists coming from China.

“There may be some suffering for a while but then it will become more disciplined. Our projections see a drop of about 20 per cent in the number of tourists coming to Phuket from China.

“But if we have higher-quality tourists, we don’t need to be worried about quantity.”

He said he believed the island’s natural resources would benefit because they have recently been under siege from large numbers of visitors, with the result that they were deteriorating.

“With smaller numbers of tourists, they have a chance of recovering or being rehabilitated. And with the tourists being of higher quality, the island’s income will not be affected.

“Now that we have this arrangement with China, we will use this model in talks with other countries such as Russia and South Korea [that are sending large numbers of zero-baht tourists to Phuket]”.

For China, of course, there are spinoff benefits – requiring Chinese nationals to get visas to come to Thailand and making package tours more expensive will encourage many to spend their vacation yuan at home in places likes Hainan or Qingdao.

Source: http://www.thephuketnews.com/china-clamps-down-on-cheap-tour-packages-to-phuket-42019.php


-- Phuket News 2013-09-21

[LivinginKata]

I feel dizzy now as I just read this other news topic where TAT talk about pushing up tourist numbers http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/669365-tats-phuket-office-targets-14m-tourist-arrivals-in-fiscal-2014/

The new rules are aimed at clamping down on low-quality, “zero-baht” tour packages that typically include air fare, hotel, meals and tours.

[aTomsLife]

Just a thought. I wonder if this isn't part of some negotiation. The Chinese have complained often about the treatment they've received in Phuket, e.g., Jet Ski scams, tuk-tuk scams, motorbike scams, destruction of property (tire slashings) and other petty crimes.

Perhaps Phuket's officials have agreed to shield Chinese nationals from such treatment, if in return Thailand receives "high quality" tourists.

Like this everyone saves face.

Edited September 21, 2013 by aTomsLife

[steelepulse]

Great news, I welcome less busses on the road.

[bobl]

What arrogance is this? What the hell is a "zero baht tourist"?

Surely they mean PREPAID tourists, not zero baht. Or is everything they do while they're in Thailand, such as the hotel, food and sightseeing/activities provided by the good people of Thailand free of charge? Silly me, I was thinking they paid a "100% all inclusive" price to the tour company and the tour company PAID the Thai hosts.

Before the trolls start - yes that was sarcasm, I DO understand exactly what they mean, so please spare us the patronizing rants. I just find their categorizing these people to sound like charity cases highly offensive. They may have very little to spend over and above what their holiday costs them, so what?! Whose business is that except theirs? These probably include the types of people who are putting your $750 iPhones together and you're talking about them like scum, you outrageous snobs!

[theblether]

What arrogance is this? What the hell is a "zero baht tourist"?

Surely they mean PREPAID tourists, not zero baht. Or is everything they do while they're in Thailand, such as the hotel, food and sightseeing/activities provided by the good people of Thailand free of charge? Silly me, I was thinking they paid a "100% all inclusive" price to the tour company and the tour company PAID the Thai hosts.

Before the trolls start - yes that was sarcasm, I DO understand exactly what they mean, so please spare us the patronizing rants. I just find their categorizing these people to sound like charity cases highly offensive. They may have very little to spend over and above what their holiday costs them, so what?! Whose business is that except theirs? These probably include the types of people who are putting your $750 iPhones together and you're talking about them like scum, you outrageous snobs!

Please calm down.

I have stated repeatedly on the Thaivisa forum that the Chinese government will not tolerate the level of abuse that has been perpetrated on their citizens. It's telling that one of the biggest issues to the fore here are shops not on the itinerary, ie the Gem scam shops.

Consular General Xu Mingliang has put the boot right through the Phuket local government office. They are terrified of him. That man is our only hope of Phuket coming back from the horrific fish in a barrel attitude taken against tourists over the last few years.

[harleyclarkey]

What arrogance is this? What the hell is a "zero baht tourist"?

Surely they mean PREPAID tourists, not zero baht. Or is everything they do while they're in Thailand, such as the hotel, food and sightseeing/activities provided by the good people of Thailand free of charge? Silly me, I was thinking they paid a "100% all inclusive" price to the tour company and the tour company PAID the Thai hosts.

Before the trolls start - yes that was sarcasm, I DO understand exactly what they mean, so please spare us the patronizing rants. I just find their categorizing these people to sound like charity cases highly offensive. They may have very little to spend over and above what their holiday costs them, so what?! Whose business is that except theirs? These probably include the types of people who are putting your $750 iPhones together and you're talking about them like scum, you outrageous snobs!

Yes. Please relax.

In the article it states that everything, fare, transfers, hotels, meals, etc are paid for in China. That to me is a zero baht tourist...they spend nothing in the local economy.

[NamKangMan]

What arrogance is this? What the hell is a "zero baht tourist"?

Surely they mean PREPAID tourists, not zero baht. Or is everything they do while they're in Thailand, such as the hotel, food and sightseeing/activities provided by the good people of Thailand free of charge? Silly me, I was thinking they paid a "100% all inclusive" price to the tour company and the tour company PAID the Thai hosts.

Before the trolls start - yes that was sarcasm, I DO understand exactly what they mean, so please spare us the patronizing rants. I just find their categorizing these people to sound like charity cases highly offensive. They may have very little to spend over and above what their holiday costs them, so what?! Whose business is that except theirs? These probably include the types of people who are putting your $750 iPhones together and you're talking about them like scum, you outrageous snobs!

Yes. Please relax.

In the article it states that everything, fare, transfers, hotels, meals, etc are paid for in China. That to me is a zero baht tourist...they spend nothing in the local economy.

Wait till the Chinese and Russians start buying up hotels, restaurants, souvenir shops and coach buses - then, even the profits from these package holiday makers will make their way back to China and Russia.

That leaves the only thing in it for the Thai's here is some unskilled labour employment, at 6000 to 9000 baht a month, per staff member.

Edited September 21, 2013 by NamKangMan

[Chicken George]

It does make some sense for Thailand. After all look at backpackers who just buy a flight and actually spend all their money here rather than book hotels and go on organised tours booked also

in their home country.

[loong]

What arrogance is this? What the hell is a "zero baht tourist"?

Surely they mean PREPAID tourists, not zero baht. Or is everything they do while they're in Thailand, such as the hotel, food and sightseeing/activities provided by the good people of Thailand free of charge? Silly me, I was thinking they paid a "100% all inclusive" price to the tour company and the tour company PAID the Thai hosts.

Before the trolls start - yes that was sarcasm, I DO understand exactly what they mean, so please spare us the patronizing rants. I just find their categorizing these people to sound like charity cases highly offensive. They may have very little to spend over and above what their holiday costs them, so what?! Whose business is that except theirs? These probably include the types of people who are putting your $750 iPhones together and you're talking about them like scum, you outrageous snobs!

Yes. Please relax.

In the article it states that everything, fare, transfers, hotels, meals, etc are paid for in China. That to me is a zero baht tourist...they spend nothing in the local economy.

Airfare, Airport receives landing and departure fees. Airport staff receive salaries.

Transfers, most probably a Thai bus company employing Thai driver and other staff.

Hotel, hotel is probably in Thailand so they receive payment and can therefore pay their staff.

Meals, prepared by a Thai?. Ingredients bought in Thailand. Serving staff are Thai and receive wages.

No matter where the payment is made, the tourist creates income for many businesses and Thai people.

How can it be zero baht?

[NamKangMan]

What arrogance is this? What the hell is a "zero baht tourist"?

Surely they mean PREPAID tourists, not zero baht. Or is everything they do while they're in Thailand, such as the hotel, food and sightseeing/activities provided by the good people of Thailand free of charge? Silly me, I was thinking they paid a "100% all inclusive" price to the tour company and the tour company PAID the Thai hosts.

Before the trolls start - yes that was sarcasm, I DO understand exactly what they mean, so please spare us the patronizing rants. I just find their categorizing these people to sound like charity cases highly offensive. They may have very little to spend over and above what their holiday costs them, so what?! Whose business is that except theirs? These probably include the types of people who are putting your $750 iPhones together and you're talking about them like scum, you outrageous snobs!

Yes. Please relax.

In the article it states that everything, fare, transfers, hotels, meals, etc are paid for in China. That to me is a zero baht tourist...they spend nothing in the local economy.

Airfare, Airport receives landing and departure fees. Airport staff receive salaries.

Transfers, most probably a Thai bus company employing Thai driver and other staff.

Hotel, hotel is probably in Thailand so they receive payment and can therefore pay their staff.

Meals, prepared by a Thai?. Ingredients bought in Thailand. Serving staff are Thai and receive wages.

No matter where the payment is made, the tourist creates income for many businesses and Thai people.

How can it be zero baht?

Not everyone coming here flies with ThaiAirways. Most Russians, for example, will fly here with Aeroflot. What does Thailand see out of this airfare?

Yes, there are some airport taxes, but how do these funds directly help Phuket?

Most of the benefits you state is in employment, and that is unskilled, 6000 to 9000 baht per month employment. These staff share 4500 baht a month room, eat 40 baht street food and send the rest back to mama in Issan.

How does this really inject big baht into the local Phuket economy, the way the traditional western market did in the past?

[asdecas]

What arrogance is this? What the hell is a "zero baht tourist"?

Surely they mean PREPAID tourists, not zero baht. Or is everything they do while they're in Thailand, such as the hotel, food and sightseeing/activities provided by the good people of Thailand free of charge? Silly me, I was thinking they paid a "100% all inclusive" price to the tour company and the tour company PAID the Thai hosts.

Before the trolls start - yes that was sarcasm, I DO understand exactly what they mean, so please spare us the patronizing rants. I just find their categorizing these people to sound like charity cases highly offensive. They may have very little to spend over and above what their holiday costs them, so what?! Whose business is that except theirs? These probably include the types of people who are putting your $750 iPhones together and you're talking about them like scum, you outrageous snobs!

Please calm down.

I have stated repeatedly on the Thaivisa forum that the Chinese government will not tolerate the level of abuse that has been perpetrated on their citizens. It's telling that one of the biggest issues to the fore here are shops not on the itinerary, ie the Gem scam shops.

Consular General Xu Mingliang has put the boot right through the Phuket local government office. They are terrified of him. That man is our only hope of Phuket coming back from the horrific fish in a barrel attitude taken against tourists over the last few years.

Thank you for some eminent sense and some home truths! Welcome to the reality of an emergent Chinese tourist industry and the clout that accompanies it. While the Thais can play divide and rule with Western tourists, China is a different bowl of ก๋วยเตี๋ยว. When the Chinese dragon breathes fire, the Thais will listen.

[loong]

What arrogance is this? What the hell is a "zero baht tourist"?

Surely they mean PREPAID tourists, not zero baht. Or is everything they do while they're in Thailand, such as the hotel, food and sightseeing/activities provided by the good people of Thailand free of charge? Silly me, I was thinking they paid a "100% all inclusive" price to the tour company and the tour company PAID the Thai hosts.

Before the trolls start - yes that was sarcasm, I DO understand exactly what they mean, so please spare us the patronizing rants. I just find their categorizing these people to sound like charity cases highly offensive. They may have very little to spend over and above what their holiday costs them, so what?! Whose business is that except theirs? These probably include the types of people who are putting your $750 iPhones together and you're talking about them like scum, you outrageous snobs!

Yes. Please relax.

In the article it states that everything, fare, transfers, hotels, meals, etc are paid for in China. That to me is a zero baht tourist...they spend nothing in the local economy.

Airfare, Airport receives landing and departure fees. Airport staff receive salaries.

Transfers, most probably a Thai bus company employing Thai driver and other staff.

Hotel, hotel is probably in Thailand so they receive payment and can therefore pay their staff.

Meals, prepared by a Thai?. Ingredients bought in Thailand. Serving staff are Thai and receive wages.

No matter where the payment is made, the tourist creates income for many businesses and Thai people.

How can it be zero baht?

Not everyone coming here flies with ThaiAirways. Most Russians, for example, will fly here with Aeroflot. What does Thailand see out of this airfare?

Yes, there are some airport taxes, but how do these funds directly help Phuket?

Most of the benefits you state is in employment, and that is unskilled, 6000 to 9000 baht per month employment. These staff share 4500 baht a month room, eat 40 baht street food and send the rest back to mama in Issan.

How does this really inject big baht into the local Phuket economy, the way the traditional western market did in the past?

"How does this really inject big baht into the local Phuket economy, the way the traditional western market did in the past? "

Did I say anywhere that it injects big baht?

No I didn't!

Does it inject zero baht into the economy?

NO, even if the amount is relatively small, money finds its way into Thai pockets, a direct result from these tourists.

Describing these tourists as "zero baht" is totally ridiculous!

[NamKangMan]

@ loong

Ok, we can call them "minimum baht tourist" if that makes you feel better. :)

[TomTao]

It looks to me that China's response to the Thai autority's lack of action on tourist scams, particularily those that affect Chinese tourists is to limit the number of Chinese tourists going to Thailand, that may not put a huge dent in TAT's tourism forcast, but it may (fingers crossed) get the attention of someone higher up in governmental circles who has the power to get something done about the scams that tourist service operators run.

[tingtongteesood]

I resent this crap very much, poor people deserve to have a holiday just as much as rich people, sounds like they are going to try and make it artificially expensive, very unfair for some people. This is discrimination. Can't stop people for sex, for race, for religion, why the hell should you try to stop them from coming because you think they aren't rich enough ?!? TOTALLY RIDICULOUS !

[NamKangMan]

I resent this crap very much, poor people deserve to have a holiday just as much as rich people, sounds like they are going to try and make it artificially expensive, very unfair for some people. This is discrimination. Can't stop people for sex, for race, for religion, why the hell should you try to stop them from coming because you think they aren't rich enough ?!? TOTALLY RIDICULOUS !

"why the hell should you try to stop them from coming because you think they aren't rich enough" - because they are harder to scam, overcharge and rip off.

Edited September 21, 2013 by NamKangMan

[Ulic]

I really don't understand. People buy an all inclusive package for budgeting purposes and because they may be a little

uncomfortable not speaking the language so they like to travel together. This does not make the trip cheap or expensive

it jut defines what is included. They may stay at a one star or a five star hotel. Trips often include shopping malls, and jewelry

shops were they can spend money. There are complaints from the Chinese Embassy regarding unscrupulous gem merchants

and jet ski operators, so they must be spending money. The only issue is the tour companies can negotiate in advance

the best possible bulk price so they get the best deals. They cut out the taxi/tuk tuk mafia heiring the big busses.

What is wrong with that. The hotels get paid, bus companies get paid and are much more efficient/ safer? than tuk tuks and

taxis. What can the profit margin be that is left in China. Not much I can assure you. Lots of travel and tour companies

go bankrupt. Sounds like the government will make the tour companies charge more, fewer travellers will come but nothing

will change regarding the structure of the vacation. It will remain a package tour.

[simon43]

TAT and the authorities in Phuket may think that it's a good idea to limit zero-baht tourists, (although it was TAT who encouraged them to come to Phuket in the first place). But if they think that these Chinese will be replaced by 'high quality' Western tourists, then they are in for a big shock.

IMHO, the Western quality tourist has moved on. Phuket used to be a popular destination for Australians, Americans and Europeans. Over the years, the number of these tourists has reduced, as more interesting destinations (Myanmar etc) start to open up to tourists. Phuket's 'scam' reputation hardly helps either.

TAT then tried to replace these falling numbers by targeting the Russian and Asian sector, with disastrous results (zero-baht tourism).

Can they switch back to Western quality tourists? No!! Phuket had it's opportunity to do it right and they screwed up - big time.

Simon

[paz]

Yes. Please relax.

In the article it states that everything, fare, transfers, hotels, meals, etc are paid for in China. That to me is a zero baht tourist...they spend nothing in the local economy.

Really? Their hotel, transportation, meals, airport taxes, what they may buy at the shops where that ar 'forced'; to go, all that stays in China? Miracles of virtual reality.

[MeowBundit]

I still remember the 2005, when I come here first time and spent in 2 weeks 3000 USD total with air tickets, which is much more than now in terms of value of money.

Last summer Russian tourists from Russian Far East and Siberia bought one week tour packages for about $400 including ticket and hotel.

The question is, who will come here, especially to low budget hotels? No one live here free, a lot of people involved in profit - hotels, tour guides, bus companies, etc...

Decrease numbers of tourists/flights to Thai Airports (servicing planes also business and gain profit),etc...etc... Now, when economy try to make profit from every tourist here. Sounds funny.

[NamKangMan]

TAT and the authorities in Phuket may think that it's a good idea to limit zero-baht tourists, (although it was TAT who encouraged them to come to Phuket in the first place). But if they think that these Chinese will be replaced by 'high quality' Western tourists, then they are in for a big shock.

IMHO, the Western quality tourist has moved on. Phuket used to be a popular destination for Australians, Americans and Europeans. Over the years, the number of these tourists has reduced, as more interesting destinations (Myanmar etc) start to open up to tourists. Phuket's 'scam' reputation hardly helps either.

TAT then tried to replace these falling numbers by targeting the Russian and Asian sector, with disastrous results (zero-baht tourism).

Can they switch back to Western quality tourists? No!! Phuket had it's opportunity to do it right and they screwed up - big time.

Simon

I agree. You have summed it up pretty well, Simon43.

I would add that not all of the traditional western "high quality" tourists have left Thailand for neighbouring countries.

Many have just left Phuket for other destinations in Thailand that offer a better quality of life as an expat, and a better value for money holiday, as a tourist.

[timewilltell]

I doubt this measure has anything whatsoever to do with Thailand. The thought hat Thailand could get the Chinese government to pass laws on its behalf is preposterous. This is Chinas answer to the Thais doing nothing to fix things complained of by the Chinese consul.

If the Thais wont listen we'll turn the tap down (keeping our guys at home to holiday for our own country's benefit) and see if it makes the numbskulls see sense. Thailand's officials are all suddenly agreeing with the policy because they are powerless to stop it.

National intervention to stop these frauds is what I have been advocating from the Western countries whose diplomacy is say nothing and do nothing in case you might upset someone. No wonder Larry was moved on - he was actually doing his job.

[Valentine]

What arrogance is this? What the hell is a "zero baht tourist"?

Surely they mean PREPAID tourists, not zero baht. Or is everything they do while they're in Thailand, such as the hotel, food and sightseeing/activities provided by the good people of Thailand free of charge? Silly me, I was thinking they paid a "100% all inclusive" price to the tour company and the tour company PAID the Thai hosts.

Before the trolls start - yes that was sarcasm, I DO understand exactly what they mean, so please spare us the patronizing rants. I just find their categorizing these people to sound like charity cases highly offensive. They may have very little to spend over and above what their holiday costs them, so what?! Whose business is that except theirs? These probably include the types of people who are putting your $750 iPhones together and you're talking about them like scum, you outrageous snobs!

Yes. Please relax.

In the article it states that everything, fare, transfers, hotels, meals, etc are paid for in China. That to me is a zero baht tourist...they spend nothing in the local economy.

Wait till the Chinese and Russians start buying up hotels, restaurants, souvenir shops and coach buses - then, even the profits from these package holiday makers will make their way back to China and Russia.

That leaves the only thing in it for the Thai's here is some unskilled labour employment, at 6000 to 9000 baht a month, per staff member.

I am sure the Russians, Chinese & Koreans have already been washing their money through involvement in some of these establishments. Just look at some of the fancy buildings being used to sell Latex products.

[FangFerang]

"that Chinese tourists be allowed visa-exempt entry into Thailand." No one getting paid! This is heresy!

[madmitch]

"His remarks appeared to ring a bell with Mr Somsak, who is the first tourism minister in living memory to have questioned the “never mind the quality, look at the numbers” attitude of Thai governments of all stripes."

What? This has been on the agenda for years. Maybe the Phuket News reporter could look at some archives from older more established newspapers to find out a bit more.

I also wonder about the reaction of hotels that already have contracts with the Chinese tour operators. Some of these hotels are owned by, let's say, influential people. And there's been a fortune spent in Phuket alone on businesses catering exclusively to this genre of tourist (all of which, by the way, makes a mockery of the term "zero-baht").

I fully expect this suggestion to be swept under the carpet along with most other ministry suggestions that do not directly benefit the so-called elite.

Edited September 22, 2013 by madmitch

[MarkCyr]

Perfect. Hopefully this will cut down on the HUGE tour busses clogging beach road and 2nd road in Pattaya as they ferry around Chinese tourists in herds to Avenue and other market areas trying to get the kickbacks to pay for the tours. And maybe we'll be able to finally see sand on Koh Laan instead of a sea of umbrellas with Chinese and Korean tour-company names on them.

Note that I don't care about race...but bringing throngs of ANY kind package tourists who move like locusts is never good for a place.

[simple1]

Think you will find the 2007 news report at the URL below provides the background for the term "zero baht" tourist packages

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/ZERO-DOLLAR-PACKAGES-Plan-to-fix-tour-rates-in-Chi-118934.html

[harleyclarkey]

Yes. Please relax.

In the article it states that everything, fare, transfers, hotels, meals, etc are paid for in China. That to me is a zero baht tourist...they spend nothing in the local economy.

Really? Their hotel, transportation, meals, airport taxes, what they may buy at the shops where that ar 'forced'; to go, all that stays in China? Miracles of virtual reality.

Yes, really.

No doubt the hotel and food prices they negotiate will be to the bare bone. Low airport taxes, a bit of rice and noodles, a bus for a few kilometres.

Yep....big contributors to the local economy.

[meatboy]

i told you so[general topic."thai' prepare for the backlash, volley ball thailand knocks out the strong favourites.[CHINA]

Edited September 22, 2013 by meatboy