Wishing for new laws where big bikes can go

[wantan]

They already have an e card system, they could make that mandatory for bikes and that problem would disappear.

The real problem is that 'big bikes' have only recently started to be enjoyed by the rich Thai's and the laws and mentality (car for rich man, bike for poor man) haven't caught up yet. Once they figure a way to allow the rich Thai's to use their expensive bikes on the elevated highway without causing total chaos then it will happen.

There is some truth in what you are saying here. But such procedure would widen the gap between rich and poor a lot. Its like building a skytrain only for people with iPhone. Such thing could be the straw that brake the camel's back. And quickly there are riots in Bangkok again. Politicians will not risk such thing i guess.

[phitsanulokjohn]

I only have my beloved 175 boss,but i'd love to buy a 500+ here and to be able to ride the expressways.Bloody shame it's prohibited.All you can do is dream,unfortunately I can't see things changing.

[robblok]

They already have an e card system, they could make that mandatory for bikes and that problem would disappear.

The real problem is that 'big bikes' have only recently started to be enjoyed by the rich Thai's and the laws and mentality (car for rich man, bike for poor man) haven't caught up yet. Once they figure a way to allow the rich Thai's to use their expensive bikes on the elevated highway without causing total chaos then it will happen.

There is some truth in what you are saying here. But such procedure would widen the gap between rich and poor a lot. Its like building a skytrain only for people with iPhone. Such thing could be the straw that brake the camel's back. And quickly there are riots in Bangkok again. Politicians will not risk such thing i guess.

how so.. i mean cars already pay to be on tollways...

[wantan]

They already have an e card system, they could make that mandatory for bikes and that problem would disappear.

The real problem is that 'big bikes' have only recently started to be enjoyed by the rich Thai's and the laws and mentality (car for rich man, bike for poor man) haven't caught up yet. Once they figure a way to allow the rich Thai's to use their expensive bikes on the elevated highway without causing total chaos then it will happen.

There is some truth in what you are saying here. But such procedure would widen the gap between rich and poor a lot. Its like building a skytrain only for people with iPhone. Such thing could be the straw that brake the camel's back. And quickly there are riots in Bangkok again. Politicians will not risk such thing i guess.

how so.. i mean cars already pay to be on tollways...

There are people who can't afford a higher cc bike but may want to use the tollways. Not letting lower cc bikes in is the same as to ban all cars with less than 200hp. Yes, there are many poor people who would't want to pay the fee and may never would use the tollways with their low cc bikes. But its a totally different thing to ban those people from using them. Same as skytrain, everyone is allowed to use it. Of course everyone has to pay for using it, nothing wrong with that.

Edited September 23, 2013 by wantan

[robblok]

They already have an e card system, they could make that mandatory for bikes and that problem would disappear.

The real problem is that 'big bikes' have only recently started to be enjoyed by the rich Thai's and the laws and mentality (car for rich man, bike for poor man) haven't caught up yet. Once they figure a way to allow the rich Thai's to use their expensive bikes on the elevated highway without causing total chaos then it will happen.

There is some truth in what you are saying here. But such procedure would widen the gap between rich and poor a lot. Its like building a skytrain only for people with iPhone. Such thing could be the straw that brake the camel's back. And quickly there are riots in Bangkok again. Politicians will not risk such thing i guess.

how so.. i mean cars already pay to be on tollways...

There are people who can't afford a higher cc bike but may want to use the tollways. Not letting lower cc bikes in is the same as to ban all cars with less than 200hp. Yes, there are many poor people who would't want to pay the fee and may never would use the tollways with their low cc bikes. But its a totally different thing to ban those people from using them. Same as skytrain, everyone is allowed to use it. Of course everyone has to pay for using it, nothing wrong with that.

I get your drift.. but to be honest i would not want scooters on there.. I mean you need more power to manage yourself there. Forza might be ok.

[ll2]

even thinking a wave on the tollway is ridiculous, plain death invitation! and saying this does not mean discrimination.

[wantan]

I get your drift.. but to be honest i would not want scooters on there.. I mean you need more power to manage yourself there. Forza might be ok.

Imo you don't need a lot of power to use the tollways. I would feel OK on my CBR150. Its not about racing or being the fastest or "not disturbing the cage drivers". These are public streets where everyone should treat others with respect and shouldn't cause dangerous situations. There is a minimum speed and a maximum speed and people should stick to that.

The next time you use a tollway/motorway try to stick to the left lane. You will notice that there are a lot of vehicles/cars driving not faster than 70-90. There are also some idiots driving much faster than the speed limit. And these usually are the ones who cause danger for others. The speed limit is there for a reason. And if we talk about letting bikes use the tollways without danger we also have to talk about how to enforce the currently existing laws. Not everyone wants to drive/ride fast, even if owning a higher cc bike. Whats wrong to ride a Harley at 80kmh? And whats wrong to ride a CBR150 at the same speed? Noone needs higher cc bikes for this.

[robblok]

I have ridden on the tollways with my car.. thank god never made the mistake to end up there with the bike im stupid enough to make such a mistake.

My observation is that they go a lot faster there as on any other road... now if you get even slower moving scooters there the slow moving cars would move and block the faster cars.. bad business..so id say only the faster ones. The whole idea of those tollways is speed anyway that is just my opinion.. I have stepped up from a wave to a kawasaki boss to a cbr250 to a ninja650..I can tell you one thing.. extra power helps a lot and I am not talking top speeds here... But that is what is needed.

[wantan]

"The more power the safer", i heared this argument often from people with higher cc bikes. But i do not agree. Public streets are no place to do daily battles and having to fight to stay alive. Such thinking doesn't make anything better. Cage drivers get used to such behaviour quickly. If i start overtaking with my bike its not different to a car that starts overtaking. Both may block the traffic flow for a while. I do not accept why there should be a difference between cars and bikes. And i don't think this is what we all really want. We want the cage drivers to accept bikes on the street as equal to them. We need less space, use less fuel, and so on. And we are a lot of people with bikes. And this huge amount of people with bikes seems to be the only problem, not the cc class.

As i said before, in germany a Wave would be allowed on the autobahn. But i agree, at the moment a Wave would be dangerous on the tollways. Another problem is the bad shape many bikes are in. But just wait a few years and we will see a lot of higher cc bikes in bad shape too. We will see bikes with ABS that doesn't work. There will be many dangerous workarounds if expensive parts get broken on the big bikes. Maybe even Tiger will start producing cheap high cc bikes. Large volume engines will be produced cheaply just because people want to buy them. All this just to fulfill a stupid high cc law. I don't think this is the right way to go

[robblok]

wantan..i used to think like you.. but now that i drive a higher cc i can garantee you the extra power is extra safety (providing you keep your top speed the same). You are right cars should respect bikes more but fact is they don't so the faster you pass something or get out of the way the safer it is. It was a big jump from 250cc power to 650cc power.. at 250 you got a lot already but you need to be in the right rmp.. at 650 it does not matter just open the gas.

Anyway my dream will probably always stay a dream. I just hate going to places worrying if i might end up on a wrong piece of road that i cant go to.

[wantan]

wantan..i used to think like you.. but now that i drive a higher cc i can garantee you the extra power is extra safety (providing you keep your top speed the same).

So you consider riding a Harley at 100kmh safer than riding a CBR250 at 100kmh. Lets assume you are right, imo the only reason for this would be that a Harley gains more respect from cage drivers. Not the cc itself. And statistic of course says something different. There are more bad accidents on bigger bikes than on smaller bikes. You are talking about a gain of safety that highly depends on the discipline of the rider. But discipline isn't one of the strenghts most bikers have. I surely have not

What if more and more people then start bying higher cc bikes and the tollways get croweded by them? Do we raise the cc level from 500cc to 800 cc then? And i still don't know how to handle the access control in detail. Every 250cc somchai will put 500cc stickers on his bike. People with 470cc will buy 501cc big bore kits and try to get this number in the greenbook. Sounds stupid to me. In germany its easy: Every vehicle with a big number plate is allowed to use the autobahn.

[robblok]

wantan..i used to think like you.. but now that i drive a higher cc i can garantee you the extra power is extra safety (providing you keep your top speed the same).

So you consider riding a Harley at 100kmh safer than riding a CBR250 at 100kmh. Lets assume you are right, imo the only reason for this would be that a Harley gains more respect from cage drivers. Not the cc itself. And statistic of course says something different. There are more bad accidents on bigger bikes than on smaller bikes. You are talking about a gain of safety that highly depends on the discipline of the rider. But discipline isn't one of the strenghts most bikers have. I surely have not

What if more and more people then start bying higher cc bikes and the tollways get croweded by them? Do we raise the cc level from 500cc to 800 cc then? And i still don't know how to handle the access control in detail. Every 250cc somchai will put 500cc stickers on his bike. People with 470cc will buy 501cc big bore kits and try to get this number in the greenbook. Sounds stupid to me. In germany its easy: Every vehicle with a big number plate is allowed to use the autobahn.

Your twisting words and you know it... more torque... is more safety in certain situations and certainly on fast moving roads. Now dragging a Harley in there is crazy. Just think of how much better your bike is then an old wave in high speed traffic. Your gasping straws.

Its not about crowded or not its about safety and power.

[wantan]

You talk about "high speed traffic", i talk about normal traffic on tollways and motorways. You talk about "an old Wave" and i talk about bikes like CBR150/250

[JonnyF]

wantan..i used to think like you.. but now that i drive a higher cc i can garantee you the extra power is extra safety (providing you keep your top speed the same).

So you consider riding a Harley at 100kmh safer than riding a CBR250 at 100kmh. Lets assume you are right, imo the only reason for this would be that a Harley gains more respect from cage drivers. Not the cc itself. And statistic of course says something different. There are more bad accidents on bigger bikes than on smaller bikes. You are talking about a gain of safety that highly depends on the discipline of the rider. But discipline isn't one of the strenghts most bikers have. I surely have not

What if more and more people then start bying higher cc bikes and the tollways get croweded by them? Do we raise the cc level from 500cc to 800 cc then? And i still don't know how to handle the access control in detail. Every 250cc somchai will put 500cc stickers on his bike. People with 470cc will buy 501cc big bore kits and try to get this number in the greenbook. Sounds stupid to me. In germany its easy: Every vehicle with a big number plate is allowed to use the autobahn.

Your twisting words and you know it... more torque... is more safety in certain situations and certainly on fast moving roads. Now dragging a Harley in there is crazy. Just think of how much better your bike is then an old wave in high speed traffic. Your gasping straws.

Its not about crowded or not its about safety and power.

I agree with Robblok on this one, big bikes generally outperform small bikes in every department. Harleys are the exception to the rule in that their performance is <deleted> in almost every way despite being huge - form over function. They are not the bar at which levels should be set.

I just imagined a group of 'Wild Hogs' cruising at 90kph 3 lanes wide on the highway pissing everyone off. Maybe it's not a good idea after all...

[BSJ]

Wantan touched on the subject of slow vehicles that already use the express way. It's bloody annoying when your doing 120+ and some arse pulls into your lane doing 70 or 80 and you have to jam on the brakes to avoid a collision.

No bike should be allowed if they are under 600cc or less than 45hp. The riders should be clear about the fact they need to ride at the speed limit if in the right lane.

[JonnyF]

Wantan touched on the subject of slow vehicles that already use the express way. It's bloody annoying when your doing 120+ and some arse pulls into your lane doing 70 or 80 and you have to jam on the brakes to avoid a collision.

No bike should be allowed if they are under 600cc or less than 45hp. The riders should be clear about the fact they need to ride at the speed limit if in the right lane.

That's bad driving, nothing to do with the vehicle, I frequently have very capable cars (driven by idiots) slow me down. In fact it's 'normally' the high end cars driving slow in the right hand lane (depending on how expensive the car behind them is), the old pickups seem to 'know their place' and stay left. Funny that, maybe just a coincidence...

Even a CBR250 can break the speed limit by some distance...

[Shurup]

wantan..i used to think like you.. but now that i drive a higher cc i can garantee you the extra power is extra safety (providing you keep your top speed the same).

So you consider riding a Harley at 100kmh safer than riding a CBR250 at 100kmh. Lets assume you are right, imo the only reason for this would be that a Harley gains more respect from cage drivers. Not the cc itself. And statistic of course says something different. There are more bad accidents on bigger bikes than on smaller bikes. You are talking about a gain of safety that highly depends on the discipline of the rider. But discipline isn't one of the strenghts most bikers have. I surely have not

What if more and more people then start bying higher cc bikes and the tollways get croweded by them? Do we raise the cc level from 500cc to 800 cc then? And i still don't know how to handle the access control in detail. Every 250cc somchai will put 500cc stickers on his bike. People with 470cc will buy 501cc big bore kits and try to get this number in the greenbook. Sounds stupid to me. In germany its easy: Every vehicle with a big number plate is allowed to use the autobahn.

I think what Rob is saying, bigger CC bikes can accelerate faster to get out of a tricky situation. In this respect they are safer.

[robblok]

wantan..i used to think like you.. but now that i drive a higher cc i can garantee you the extra power is extra safety (providing you keep your top speed the same).

So you consider riding a Harley at 100kmh safer than riding a CBR250 at 100kmh. Lets assume you are right, imo the only reason for this would be that a Harley gains more respect from cage drivers. Not the cc itself. And statistic of course says something different. There are more bad accidents on bigger bikes than on smaller bikes. You are talking about a gain of safety that highly depends on the discipline of the rider. But discipline isn't one of the strenghts most bikers have. I surely have not

What if more and more people then start bying higher cc bikes and the tollways get croweded by them? Do we raise the cc level from 500cc to 800 cc then? And i still don't know how to handle the access control in detail. Every 250cc somchai will put 500cc stickers on his bike. People with 470cc will buy 501cc big bore kits and try to get this number in the greenbook. Sounds stupid to me. In germany its easy: Every vehicle with a big number plate is allowed to use the autobahn.

I think what Rob is saying, bigger CC bikes can accelerate faster to get out of a tricky situation. In this respect they are safer.

That is exactly what I was trying to say, I do't look down on smaller bikes. It is quite possible that people on smaller bikes go faster as me as I am quite conservative.. on both the CBR250 and the Ninja 650 my top speed has been 150. I almost never go that fast my cruising speed is lower its much too busy where I drive (though others can go faster there.. i just don't feel safe).

But what i noticed the most since upgrading bikes is the ease to accelerate out of trouble or passing cars ect. Its so much easier and safer as before. Not saying that if you keep your revs high on a a CBR you can't do it. But now i just have to flick my wrist a bit and the power is there. Anyway this was about better laws for bikes... but i guess it has to come from rich Thai bikers (passed a group of those on bikes that put my ninja to shame) and I guess they either dont have the cloud or the interest to change things. Maybe the cops dont even bother with them.

[brfsa2]

Even before allowing bikes on the highway I think the license system for bikes needs to be revamped in Thailand. Not as tough as Japan, but something like in Singapore.

well, there is a lot to learn from Singapore in Thailand.

think of accidents like this on normal roads, then imagine on the Highway: http://www.dailynews.co.th/crime/234934

[VocalNeal]

If two wheelers use the expressway and ride in the left lane where will I overtake?

The traffic problems in Bangkok are not what but how, in other words it is the difference in speeds of the mixed traffic that causes the traffic to move slowly.

If traffic on the expressway was mixed the same result would occur. Add that to the lack of lane discipline here. The add the expressway being "closed" at 2AM for all the drag racers who have paid 50B.

Then there would be all the vespa delivery riders with three rolls of carpet or 5 car tires on a vespa!

If one has "influence" on can already ride on the Chonburi motorway by paying for a police escort!

[KRS1]

i think the original reason mocycs are banned on the freeways, was because of drag racing back when 2 strokes were proliferate.

mocycs on the freeway is only a bkk problem anyway, anywhere else in the country you can ride.

[English_M_in_Bkk]

Yep, but there are cars with loud exhausts too. So lets ban them all from the streets, loud cars and loud bikes

On the german autobahn there is a simple rule: motorized vehicles which are able to go faster than 60kmh on flat streets (and fully loaded) are allowed to use the autobahn. 60kmh isn't much. A Wave can do it, so in germany a Wave would be allowed to use the autobahn i guess.

I don't understand why most members here want to limit access to higher cc bikes. The reasons for this may be the own ego ("I own a high cc bike and don't want to see my neighbours Wave on the highway") or the insight that it simply would not work to let all Bangkok scooters and bikes use the tollways. But is that fair? IMO this is just the same egoism as a car driver saying "I don't want motorbikes on the highway". Or as a owner of a Porsche saying "Lets ban all these slow trucks from the highways". There are a lot of small and big bikes on streets of Bangkok. There should be a way to make the environment better for all these bikers, small and big. And of course for bicycles and pedestrians too. Egoism is the wrong approach for a better world

I don't see this being about ego at all - quite simply smaller cc scooters etc. are more dangerous to ride at higher speeds, so they shouldn't be allowed on the highways for that reason.

I think bigger bikes should be allowed on the highways, especially ones like Viphawadi-Rangsit road etc. Expressways? Why not just allow the bigger bikes on there outside of rush-hour - yeah yeah I know dreaming in a perfect world!

[VocalNeal]

.... was because ...back when 2 strokes were proliferate.

Hey KRS1 I love your nostalgia. Have you been to any 2AM street races lately? 2 strokes still proliferate.

Edited September 25, 2013 by VocalNeal

[yannic]

in the Philippines motorbikes bigger then 400c are allowed on the expressway. I think 400 cc would make sense even so I ride a 250cc here.

[VocalNeal]

Just pondering?

If motorcycles were allowed how many would be riding the wrong way up the off ramps to get onto the expressway for free?

Driving around Bangkok I have noticed that in general even when on expressway-like roads like Ratchapruek or even Rama 9 the majority of motorcycles ride at a pace slower than the rest of the traffic, which is probably why they are not allowed on expressays.

150 and up would be OK. Unless one rides a 125! But even then? I was on the CharoenRat (Ramintra) expressway this morning and the traffic was flowing at 120. The slowest vehicle ( apart from the vacuum truck in the fast lane!) was doing about 100 in the left lane so if bikes can comfortably cruise at 100.

Good place to experiment would be the Chonburi motorway as there wouldn't be many commuters!

[wantan]

400cc would make sense to limit the number of bikes. I don't see any other sense behind it.

Sorry, its getting a bit offtopic with all that talk about scooters, but it seems there are different opinions about safe and unsafe bikes and how to make streets safer in general. I guess we all agree that it would be dangerous to open the tollways for all the small scooters at the moment.

But if scooters are dangerous per se at "higher speeds", than they shouldn't be able to do that speed. Everyone buying a scooter can decide on his own whether or not he wants to take the risk of riding at "full scooter speed" (something like 100kmh i guess). The land transport department shouldn't allow unsafe bikes on the streets. Has nothing to do with tollways and motorways imo.

Whatever limit you will set (power, speed, cc), there always will be people who will not accept this limit. Why should a Harley be allowed to ride on the tollway at 90kmh, but my neighbours CBR250 is not allowed? Thats highly unfair, my neighbour will be very angry i guess

And why are most people here talking about "higher speeds" at all? The allowed top speed on tollways is 120kmh, partly much less. Why should all bikes run at top speed? Thats dangerous imo. I want to be allowed to ride at a speed of 100kmh, like every other vehicle is allowed to do it. I don't want to go "high speed".

The average speed on the tollways and motorways is more like 90-100kmh, not 120-150kmh. Only some people go 150kmh, endangering all the others. Interesting, it seems these are the people who now worry about scooters having accidents at "higher speeds". Looks like these people fear others could disturb their races

[KRS1]

.... was because ...back when 2 strokes were proliferate.

Hey KRS1 I love your nostalgia. Have you been to any 2AM street races lately? 2 strokes still proliferate.

not in cnx, but back in the days i use to get into those 2am street races around samut prakan.

youd come home at the end of the day and your boogers would be black.

[wantan]

Dreams can become true:
"Protesters on motorcycles making the most of lawlessness in #Bangkok by riding illegally on tollway"

Edited January 23, 2014 by wantan

[ll2]

I was riding on tollway during the floods with no problems.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Briggsy]

They might want to pilot any changes in the law with allowing bikes to use flyovers in Bangkok and elsewhere. That has to be the most pointless by-law unless you want to keep a handy side income for the police.

i don't foresee any changes in the near future.