If Lohanthony was Thai he'd be a ladyboy but he's American so he's not

[Jingthing]

OK, this is my theory.

An over the top campy gay boy like world famous American LOHANTHONY if he had grown up in Thailand would definitely be a ladyboy, but he's clearly not and clearly is already identified as a GAY MALE and not a transgender.

Not that there aren't transgendered people in the U.S. but the culture is so different, that boys like Lohanthony don't feel encouraged to go there unless they are REALLY there. I think in Thailand a boy like this would feel the right social role for him would be ladyboy.

Do you agree?

To get this question you'll have to introduce yourself to LOHANTHONY!

http://www.youtube.com/user/lohanthony

You may regret that or not, but I think he's on the way to major fame. He was just featured on Tosh.0.

[onthemoon]

He's cute but a bit young. He seems to like to present himself on YouTube.

What makes you think he is qualifying as a transgender in any country now? What makes you think this won't change over the next 5-10 years?

What is your definition of a ladyboy?

What makes you think there are no transgendered people in the US?

[Jingthing]

He's cute but a bit young. He seems to like to present himself on YouTube.

What makes you think he is qualifying as a transgender in any country now? What makes you think this won't change over the next 5-10 years?

What is your definition of a ladyboy?

What makes you think there are no transgendered people in the US?

I clearly said there were transgendered people in the U.S. Of course there are.

I think it is also well known that the PERCENTAGE is much less than in Thailand.

I think this Lohanthony knows who he is NOW. It is very common these days in the U.S. for boys of this age to KNOW they are gay and/or trans.

That is my opinion.

It is also my opinion that a boy like this in Thailand would be assumed by most everyone to be a ladyboy and most would REACT to that societal reality and tend to become one.

I see transgendered/ladyboy as a male with who sees his GENDER as female.

Different than sexual orientation.

Also, please stop playing these games of saying I said things I didn't say as you have done now on multiple threads: (from above) Not that there aren't transgendered people in the U.S

Lohanthony on Tosh.0 (a popular U.S. t.v. show based on web content):

http://mtvnmobile.vo.llnwd.net/kip0/_pxn=1+_pxI0=Ripod-h264+_pxL0=undefined+_pxM0=+_pxK=18639+_pxE=mp4/44620/mtvnorigin/gsp.comedystor/com/tosh/season_05/tosh_518_tease_1280x720_3500_h32.mp4?tosh_mobile_web&_fw_vid=mgid:cms:video:tosh.comedycentral.com:429066&_fw_sid=Tosh_Videos_mob

[onthemoon]

He's quite commercial.

And the interview has a lot of references to the Liberace movie, at least by the interviewer. Not sure whether Lohanthony got it, though.

But he's cute nevertheless.

[Jingthing]

He's quite commercial.

And the interview has a lot of references to the Liberace movie, at least by the interviewer. Not sure whether Lohanthony got it, though.

But he's cute nevertheless.

Of course he's commercial. He certainly ain't BASIC, b_____.

The point isn't so much about this young celebrity but my theory that such a camp boy in Thailand would likely be seen as a young ladyboy and in the U.S., he isn't.

I think that's interesting.

A number of people for years have been asking why there are so many ladyboys in Thailand. I don't have the answer but my theory about the theoretical Lohanthony Thai style might just be a clue.

[onthemoon]

Yes, I guess you are right, he'd be called a ladyboy over here.

[Scott]

It's an interesting theory.

[KED]

In cultures which are not as open about LGBT issues, I think those who are less effeminate tend to supress their true personalities and "pass as straight" or at least stay below the radar. People like Anthony who are much stronger personaities have no choice but to confront the prejudices hear on.

In Thailand, their isn't as much hostility; however, I do feel that some LGBT youth feel they must act effeminate because they identify as being gay and the ladyboys are the most visible manifestation of the LGBT community.

Hopefully, both Western and Asian cultures will mature and allow people to explore who they are without prejudice - but we still have a long way to go.

[LeCharivari]

As OTM has intimated, the term "ladyboy" varies widely in use and meaning, making any thread about "ladyboys" without an explanation of one's own use of the term rather confusing at best.

To Thais it means one of two things: to most Thais who have not been "westernised" by the farang obsession with compartmentalising people it simply means anyone from fem gays to transgenders who have had full GRS. To some urban Thais its a bit more narrow and it covers the gamut from cross dressing (but originally equipped) transexuals to post GRS.

To farangs it could mean anything from gay to transgender - it all depends on their point of view and their experience (Pattaya vs Issan, etc). I'm used to ladyboy simply being fem gay and all points past that, as that's how the Thais I know use it (including about themselves, if appropriate), so from that point of view and after looking very briefly at his video (as long as I could stand) I'd say he's just another self-obsessed fem gay kid who thinks that makes him special.

[Jingthing]

Oh please. I already clarified this. I meant transgendered not femme. Obviously that boy is so very femme.

[LeCharivari]

In cultures which are not as open about LGBT issues, I think those who are less effeminate tend to supress their true personalities and "pass as straight" or at least stay below the radar. People like Anthony who are much stronger personaities have no choice but to confront the prejudices hear on.

In Thailand, their isn't as much hostility; however, I do feel that some LGBT youth feel they must act effeminate because they identify as being gay and the ladyboys are the most visible manifestation of the LGBT community.

Hopefully, both Western and Asian cultures will mature and allow people to explore who they are without prejudice - but we still have a long way to go.

You're giving him a lot more credit than I do!

To me a lot of gays don't so much "suppress their true personalities" as simply see no need or reason to broadcast their sexual preference to others, so I don't see him necessarily as having a "much stronger personality" rather than just having nothing else going for him that makes him stand out from the crowd - rather like Julian Clary, but without the talent and wit. To me he's milking being a precocious fem gay kid for all he can get, rather than confronting any prejudices.

As far as "ladyboys" being "the most visible manifestation of the LGBT community" goes, again it all depends on what you mean by ladyboys; a lot of the most obvious "ladyboys" (those who have had full GRS, etc, but let's say not quite up to Tiffany standard) don't actually see themselves as part of the "LGBT community" at all.

I agree with you 100% that "we still have a long way to go" before these prejudices disappear, if they ever will - once they do, though, people like this kid will have to find some other way of being "special".

[Jingthing]

This material is sort of related to this topic.

Obviously, culture impacts on the social definitions/roles/labels.

http://www.psmag.com/health/the-old-way-to-be-gay-couples-love-evolution-67337/

[onthemoon]

This material is sort of related to this topic.

Obviously, culture impacts on the social definitions/roles/labels.

http://www.psmag.com/health/the-old-way-to-be-gay-couples-love-evolution-67337/

"androphilic males" - interesting terminology. However, the article is about effeminate gays and calls them transgender, and also implies that they are the average gay males. Which is neither true now nor was it in history.

I am certainly gay but have nothing in common with "fa’afafine" or "panegi". This article only helps spread the prejudice that all gays are like women.

[Jingthing]

I don't see it the same way at all. In many traditional societies for gay boys growing up, society gives them the choice to fit into a socially approved role such as mentioned in the article. In these societies, the role of modern gay male is NOT one of the roles offered! That's the point of this thread. Thailand still has a strong element of their traditional society intact, which does not yet fully "get" the modern concept of GAY MAN. In Thailand the "ladyboy" role is more socially sanctioned and comprehended than the modern gay male role. In a modern western society like the USA, gay leaning boys are assumed to be fitting into the social role of gay male and there isn't really a tradition of welcoming the trans roles.

Note: I am not suggesting that ladyboys in Thailand don't suffer social discrimination. Of course they do. I am just saying that the vast Thai public comprehends ladyboys better than the western modern concept of gay man.

[onthemoon]

I respect the point of this thread.

However, the point of the article was different IMHO, and I didn't like it. That's my prerogative.

[Jingthing]

I think some modern gay men have their own kind of "phobia" about any kind of intellectual discussion linking gay male sexuality to the feminine. I think that is irrational. I think we need to be open to all kinds of information. For example, I've got some health issues that are oddly much more common in females than males. Yet I have no interest in wearing dresses. Is there a link to my hormones, being gay, etc.? I don't know. There are some clues out there however, such as scientific evidence showing that the brains of gay men are different biologically than the brains of straight men. I am not afraid of being intellectually curious about such questions. When babies develop in the womb, they have the potential of being born male or female. Within all of use exists male and female aspects.

You know, more seriously, science will likely get the stage where they can biologically PREVENT homosexuality. To me, that's a kind of genocide, yet I expect if parents are given the choice and it's cheap and easy enough, the vast majority will take it. I'd like science to understand as much as possible about homosexuality before the potential for that ever happens. Maybe that will make the sexuality genocide more likely to happen, or less likely to happen, but to my view, the best hope lies in MORE knowledge.

[onthemoon]

JT, you are weird. I have no phobia against femininity, but I am just not feminine - in the sense that people who don't know I'm gay would think I were. It's a fact, not a phobia.

Sorry to hear about your health issues, but I don't see the context. Of course if these issues are more common in women it does not mean that they don't happen to men - regardless of whether they are gay or straight.

[Jingthing]

JT, you are weird. I have no phobia against femininity, but I am just not feminine - in the sense that people who don't know I'm gay would think I were. It's a fact, not a phobia.

Sorry to hear about your health issues, but I don't see the context. Of course if these issues are more common in women it does not mean that they don't happen to men - regardless of whether they are gay or straight.

I've been called much worse names.

On the medical thing, the things I am talking about have nothing to do with sexual practices, so in searching the literature there is no info on whether there is a high incidence in gay men the same as women ... or not. I would find that very interesting. I am aware my anecdotal experience doesn't prove anything, but I really wish there was more info about such matters. If medical science knows about sex differences with some conditions, why don't they ALSO know how gay people fit into that picture? They do with sexual activity related things though.

[LeCharivari]

This material is sort of related to this topic.

Obviously, culture impacts on the social definitions/roles/labels.

http://www.psmag.com/health/the-old-way-to-be-gay-couples-love-evolution-67337/

"androphilic males" - interesting terminology. However, the article is about effeminate gays and calls them transgender, and also implies that they are the average gay males. Which is neither true now nor was it in history.

I am certainly gay but have nothing in common with "fa’afafine" or "panegi". This article only helps spread the prejudice that all gays are like women.

The article is very misleading as a piece of "research", OTM, as the author is simply re-writing and "sexing-up" someone else's research without properly explaining it or putting it in its cultural context.

The author is plaigirising her "good friend Paul Vasey, the super sharp Canadian sex researcher" 's work and re-writing it in a highly edited form for general viewing, with none of the original study, caveats, etc.' and drawing conclusions from it that the original researchers did not - THEY were researching "the social roles of transgendered males" in society and particularly in their families (nothing to do with homosexuality per se, as they make clear) while SHE is using that research to support her own theory that "the “old way to be gay” would have been the transgendered form.", which is NOT what the research concludes or is about at all.

Although it looks as if the term "androphilia" is being used as a synonym for homosexuality (and that is how the author seems to be using it here), that is NOT what the original researcher intended as the author makes clear in a different article: "Paul uses the term "male androphilia" where other researchers talk about "male homosexuality" because Paul studies a special population of people in Samoa, the fa'afafine." ( http://www.psmag.com/health/gay-boy-like-physiological-problem-milk-67424/. )

Paul Vasey's research and his use of the term "androphilia" is very specifically ONLY about fa'afafine in Samoa and similar cultures, NOT about homosexuality, and while the author implies that the terms are synonymous ( "androphilic males — that is, males who are sexually oriented toward other males") that is NOT how Vasey uses the term. In his research he identifies the fa'afafine as effectively being transgenders (living and behaving as women, in all aspects) without actually having had any GRS. He does NOT identify them as "effeminate gays" and he NEVER "implies that they are the average gay males."

The author instead seems to have carefully chosen parts of someone else's research to support her theory that "The phenomenon in North America, for example, where one gay man builds a home with another appears to be a relatively new trend, historically speaking" while equally carefully ignoring that the research has NOTHING to do with homosexuality per se but is about a totally DIFFERENT "phenomenon". Its like claiming that the West is responsible for taming and using horses because the Arabs have always used camels as beasts of burden not horses, while ignoring that the Arabs were using horses thousands of years before us for a different purpose (speed).

The research has NOTHING to do with the idea that "The phenomenon in North America, for example, where one gay man builds a home with another appears to be a relatively new trend, historically speaking". Its about transgender men and their surprising prevalence in some small societies, so much so that they are considered "normal" (usual, not uncommon, etc) in those societies while "gays" as we know them are considered unusual - the reverse of the situation we are used to. While it doesn't seem to be part of that research, if you are interested in this sort of thing the "sistagirls" of the Tiwi islands would probably be a better case study as they make up a far larger proportion of the population than their counterparts in Samoa - as much as 10% of the male population, which is far higher than any estimates of the gay (homosexual, non-transgender) population in any country.

The article seems to deliberately overlook or ignore a number of points which should be obvious to even the casual observer, let alone anyone who is a "professor of clinical medical humanities and bioethics" as the author is. Most obvious of these is that while it is true that "The term “transgender” may connote sex change procedures, but the fa’afafine have traditionally not pursued bodily alterations. They simply live as women with their born-male bodies" by far the most likely reason for this is that they simply didn't have any choice in the past as the only "GRS" available was amputation (without anaesthetic, etc) - hardly an option for most people, but something which the researchers seem to have totally ignored. That lack of an option has simply become an accepted tradition, so that GRS is simply not considered as important by transgenders there as it is now in the West.

This idea that gay couples are "a relatively new trend, historically speaking" has already been discussed here at some length and its pretty clear and documented that gay couples ("where one gay man builds a home with another") where neither partner was effeminate in any way have existed in various cultures (Egyptian, Greek, Roman, even Thai) going back four or five thousand years. The author of the article is simply mis-representing as yet unpublished research on a different subject to support her own otherwise unsupported theory.

All the article does is prove how dangerous it is to take one subject - Lohanthony in the case of this thread, the fa'afafine in the case of the article - and try to draw cross-cultural conclusions about them without allowing for cultural, economic, medical and scientific differences.

[Jingthing]

So a gay boy (in the sense of a boy who would be headed for GAY MALE identity if he was growing up in the modern west) in such a society would tend to become Fa'afafine because there is no other socially known role. Again, that's exactly on point to this thread. The generally sanctioned social roles have a strong influence on children growing up. Obviously, different societies are quite dramatically different in this regard, and things change over time.

I don't think trying to make CONNECTIONS between different articles/topics to be "dangerous" in the least.

Fa'afafine may be viewed as a third gender specific to Samoan culture.

Fa'afafine are the gender liminal, or third-gendered people of Samoa. A recognized and integral part of traditional Samoan culture, fa'afafine, born biologically male, embody both male and female gender traits. Their gendered behavior typically ranges from extravagantly feminine to mundanely masculine.

...


It is a mistake to attribute a Western interpretation and mislabel the fa’afafine as “gay” or “homosexual”. In Independent Samoa, the people claim that there is no such thing as being "gay" or "homosexual.

http://dictionary.sensagent.com/fa%20afafine/en-en/

[LeCharivari]

By coincidence while checking something else I just came across an interesting and well researched article on fa'afafine which reinforces exactly the point I have made here and in previous threads, where "the West", and particularly Western "queer academics and political activists" have deliberately spun sexual practices in other cultures to support their own views of what is " 'natural' " for gays today and how "the West" has defined homosexuality:

Long existent forms of this 'primitivism' centre on other sexualities as somehow representative of the 'truth' of human sexuality – a truth that the Western world has lost.In the recently reworked version of this primitivism, occurrences of other (non-hetero)sexual practices are used by queer academics and political activists to validate the existence of homosexuality in Western cultures. These primitive practices are represented as more 'natural' by virtue of their association with pre-contact cultures.

... at times fa'afafine do engage in political and other affiliations with queer groups, but they ground the uniqueness of their identities in their cultural history and their places within their families and society, rather than their sexual practices

... before Western contact, fa'afafine were simply 'feminine boys,' but exposure to Western movies taught them (and presumably women as well) that clothing, make-up and appearance in general could be used as a more definitive signifier of gender.

My point is that " 'feminine boys' " like Lohanthony in one culture may not be "ladyboys" in another even if they were born in a different time and place just because there seems to be some superficial resemblance between the two, and while Western "queer academics and political activists" seem to think that the West has some sort of monopoly on what "homosexuality" means today and the development of a "gay identity" the reality is very different.

http://intersections.anu.edu.au/issue6/schmidt.html

[GirlDrinkDrunk]

i find him irritating and in need of a slap.

camp is not feminine, it is camp.

[Jingthing]

i find him irritating and in need of a slap.

camp is not feminine, it is camp.

Not exactly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_(style)

Also, I well understand not being a fan of Lohanthony but I do think he has something more going on than only his flamboyance.

[GirlDrinkDrunk]

i find him irritating and in need of a slap.

camp is not feminine, it is camp.

Not exactly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_(style)

artifice, frivolity, naïve middle-class pretentiousness, and ‘shocking’ excess.

pretty much backs up what i said, thanks.

he may well have more going on, however i am unwilling to dedicate any more of my precious time to find out.

[Jingthing]

I'm not the only one that thinks the kid is campy. Whatever!

I do agree camp is a sophisticated concept. Read Sontag.

This thread isn't about the definition of camp anyway.

Lol... He's like this really camp guy who makes youtube videos

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120729232422AAX3AXz

Back to the gender questions here, I can't predict the future, but in the American cultural context based on seeing some of the videos, I can easily imagine Lohanthony potentially growing up to be a drag performer but I think it's very unlikely that his GENDER orientation is/will be female. I think if Thai again he'd be pure ladyboy and be encouraged to think he's a female spirit.

[GirlDrinkDrunk]

no we both agree that the kid is camp.

regarding gender issues, i really cant conjure up even a vague attempt atcaring either way, so i will gracefully extract myself from further discussion of what i beleive to be a pampered sorce of irritatation. the child is a caricature.

As for camp being a sophisitacted concept, perhaps in terms of items found, design and fashion, however in terms of the demeanor demontsrated by a vaguely post-pubescent interenet attention whore, not so much.221383ont out i do not find the spoiled child offensive, but i do find him incredibly annoying.

in a gay male camp is either a sign of insecurity or insincerity. the same goes for katoeys.

[onthemoon]

no we both agree that the kid is camp.

regarding gender issues, i really cant conjure up even a vague attempt atcaring either way, so i will gracefully extract myself from further discussion of what i beleive to be a pampered sorce of irritatation. the child is a caricature.

As for camp being a sophisitacted concept, perhaps in terms of items found, design and fashion, however in terms of the demeanor demontsrated by a vaguely post-pubescent interenet attention whore, not so much.221383ont out i do not find the spoiled child offensive, but i do find him incredibly annoying.

in a gay male camp is either a sign of insecurity or insincerity. the same goes for katoeys.

If you don't like him, don't watch him. Calling him a whore (even though an internet-attention whore) is a bit over the top, I'd say.

Calling all gay male camps insecure or insincere is a very strong opinion, which I would think can only be based on prejudice and some anecdotal stories - which you don't need to repeat here to make; I also know many straight males, and females that are insecure or insincere, which doesn't mean that all of them are. And I know many a camp gay male who is very secure and self-confident and honest.

[Jingthing]

Don't sell Lohanthony short. He's going places. Already featured on Tosh.O, his 15 minutes is not up.

[DavidBonnie]

no we both agree that the kid is camp.

regarding gender issues, i really cant conjure up even a vague attempt atcaring either way, so i will gracefully extract myself from further discussion of what i beleive to be a pampered sorce of irritatation. the child is a caricature.

As for camp being a sophisitacted concept, perhaps in terms of items found, design and fashion, however in terms of the demeanor demontsrated by a vaguely post-pubescent interenet attention whore, not so much.221383ont out i do not find the spoiled child offensive, but i do find him incredibly annoying.

in a gay male camp is either a sign of insecurity or insincerity. the same goes for katoeys.

I'm a straight man but my boyfriend isn't. 555

Actually I have lived with my ladyboy girlfriend for several years and can pass on some observations made and opinion from the ladyboy/Thai community.

Ladyboys is a term applied to a whole range of people with one thing in common. They are all camp. Some look like young men and some look exactly like young women but they are all femme and it is clear that they are not straight.

Why do so many gay men strive to feminise themselves into the ladyboy spectrum? They do so because being gay but looking and behaving 'straight' like the 'modern, western gay man' is viewed with suspicion by Thai people.

A non camp gay man whose behaviours are typically identical with the western concept of masculinity are felt to be less than honest by many Thais; as if they are hiding something or are afraid to come out of the closet.

I have several farang, gay male friends who bemoan the absence of masculine looking and behaving gay Thai men . . . . . 'I don't want a camp guy, I want a manly, man'.

I don't have enough experience of the gay scene in Thailand to know if this is the case generally . . . . and of course people may have different opinions but the notion of 'being and looking like what you are' ie . . a ladyboy( a feminine male at some point on the feminine spectrum in terms of dress, surgery and mannerisms) is one that I have heard many times from ladyboys.

Far from insincerity, the camp mannerisms adopted? by ladyboys is part of their group identification and is learned behaviour in exactly the same way my masculine behaviours are learned . . . read Judith Butler concerning learned gender roles. She is very interesting.

The idea that campness is born of insecurity is a compelling one . . . .and I think has some worth. I guess it helps cement the femininity but is no less genuine for being 'learned behaviour' as discussed above briefly.

Another interesting variable is the feminised ladyboy who has tits and has taken some hormones along her path but who now refuses to take feminising hormones. Why? Because they interfere with her ability to fuc_k guys. Although she can be very feminine in her appearance her sexual appetites are essentially male and voracious. This bitch can be disconcerting, I can tell you! There are many like this.

One is led to consider that in a culturally- reversed thinking; if this ladyboy had grown up in the west, would she be a gay king who looked and behaved like a masculine (ish) male?

[LeCharivari]

no we both agree that the kid is camp.

regarding gender issues, i really cant conjure up even a vague attempt atcaring either way, so i will gracefully extract myself from further discussion of what i beleive to be a pampered sorce of irritatation. the child is a caricature.

As for camp being a sophisitacted concept, perhaps in terms of items found, design and fashion, however in terms of the demeanor demontsrated by a vaguely post-pubescent interenet attention whore, not so much.221383ont out i do not find the spoiled child offensive, but i do find him incredibly annoying.

in a gay male camp is either a sign of insecurity or insincerity. the same goes for katoeys.

I'm a straight man but my boyfriend isn't. 555

Actually I have lived with my ladyboy girlfriend for several years and can pass on some observations made and opinion from the ladyboy/Thai community.

Ladyboys is a term applied to a whole range of people with one thing in common. They are all camp. Some look like young men and some look exactly like young women but they are all femme and it is clear that they are not straight.

Why do so many gay men strive to feminise themselves into the ladyboy spectrum? They do so because being gay but looking and behaving 'straight' like the 'modern, western gay man' is viewed with suspicion by Thai people.

A non camp gay man whose behaviours are typically identical with the western concept of masculinity are felt to be less than honest by many Thais; as if they are hiding something or are afraid to come out of the closet.

I have several farang, gay male friends who bemoan the absence of masculine looking and behaving gay Thai men . . . . . 'I don't want a camp guy, I want a manly, man'.

I don't have enough experience of the gay scene in Thailand to know if this is the case generally . . . . and of course people may have different opinions but the notion of 'being and looking like what you are' ie . . a ladyboy( a feminine male at some point on the feminine spectrum in terms of dress, surgery and mannerisms) is one that I have heard many times from ladyboys.

Far from insincerity, the camp mannerisms adopted? by ladyboys is part of their group identification and is learned behaviour in exactly the same way my masculine behaviours are learned . . . read Judith Butler concerning learned gender roles. She is very interesting.

The idea that campness is born of insecurity is a compelling one . . . .and I think has some worth. I guess it helps cement the femininity but is no less genuine for being 'learned behaviour' as discussed above briefly.

Another interesting variable is the feminised ladyboy who has tits and has taken some hormones along her path but who now refuses to take feminising hormones. Why? Because they interfere with her ability to fuc_k guys. Although she can be very feminine in her appearance her sexual appetites are essentially male and voracious. This bitch can be disconcerting, I can tell you! There are many like this.

One is led to consider that in a culturally- reversed thinking; if this ladyboy had grown up in the west, would she be a gay king who looked and behaved like a masculine (ish) male?

Agree with all your points generally (and in particular "Ladyboys is a term applied to a whole range of people with one thing in common. They are all camp. Some look like young men and some look exactly like young women but they are all femme and it is clear that they are not straight" as this the term is often misunderstood by some farangs, gay and straight), but I have a few reservations.

Why do so many gay men strive to feminise themselves into the ladyboy spectrum? They do so because being gay but looking and behaving 'straight' like the 'modern, western gay man' is viewed with suspicion by Thai people. ... I have several farang, gay male friends who bemoan the absence of masculine looking and behaving gay Thai men . . . . . 'I don't want a camp guy, I want a manly, man'.

Not so sure ... I think most simply do it because they like it. I know plenty of "masculine looking and behaving gay Thai men" but they are simply not as obvious (for obvious reasons!) as femme gays and they don't want to be part of the gay "scene" any more than a lot of the rest of us do, so many farangs assume that because they don't know them they don't exist.

The idea that campness is born of insecurity is a compelling one . . . .and I think has some worth.

Again, not so sure as it depends on your point of view. I agree with you that it "is part of their group identification and is learned behaviour in exactly the same way my masculine behaviours are learned" and consequently there's not really any reason to think that ladyboys/camp men are any more or any less "insecure" than anyone who identifies and associates closely with any particular group - be they camp, macho, skinheads, hippies, football supporters, train spotters, wine buffs, etc. Whether you call that insecurity, herd behaviour or having a common interest depends more on your point of view than anything objective.