New build....best soundproofing

[Anon999]

It is correct, that mass is the best for sound proof. However, the glass wool or Rockwool isolation between double walls is to stop standing sound waves. Using a comfort block (gassed cement with tiny air bobbles) is far better sound isolation than the normal Thai block. The double glass windows need to be sealed. All, even small, openings or gaps need to be sealed, as sound loves to find it’s way through even tiny small gaps.

I’ve been working with sound recording studios and when doing sound proof between the recording area and the control room, where the sound is played loud during a recording session inside the recording room, we would normally do some 50 to 60 dB sound proof. 6 dB (decibel) is a measure equal to 50% reduction of the sound level, but a logarithmic scale, so 12 dB equals 25%. Also between the recording area and the outside “world” we would need about 40 to 60 dB sound isolation. I’ve also been designing discotheques, where the indoor loud sound level should be reduced around 40 to 50 dB to be an acceptable outside street sound level.

For double walls we normally used heavy mass, like burned bricks (thick granite blocks are perfect), a space of minimum 10 centimeter with mineral wool (other wool materials works as fine, but mineral wool cannot burn), and then a wall of comfort blocks (gassed cement blocks). You can use comfort blocks for both walls, but the one should be double as thick as the standard Thai comfort block. The way you construct houses in Thailand with cements posts instead of bearing walls, you may need to have a comfort block wall inside or outside the posts, as the posts themselves will work as sound transporters (vibration), called a “sound bridge”.

For windows – and that would be between recording area and control room, or between recording area and outside for daylight – we would use double glass (thermo sealed) with 8 mm glass, but laminated from two 4 mm as it reduces sound transport. You can use one layer of 8 mm laminated and one side of 6 mm plain. One thermo window alone would not give enough sound isolation; so two windows with minimum 10 cm separation were used, either as two thermo or a thermo and a single 6 or 8 mm. If windows needed to be opened, for example to outdoor, the frames and rubber seals are very important, so they do not vibrate and all small gaps are sealed.

Cement floors are an excellent sound transportation for low frequencies (bass booms), which can be avoided by isolating the cement from vibration from outside waves. Now in Thai construction, that is a question if you have the cement floor on ground level or it is raised on posts. On ground level the inside cement deck should float on a sand layer and not be cast with the bearing cement beams. That can be separated by just a 1 cm foam plate, or even better with a 5 cm hard pressed mineral wool block. If raised on posts, you may need to stop the sound waves from coming in under the floor and make it vibrate, which may be a question only about stopping the sound from the road. Often optimal sound proof may need inspection in the area and measuring done.

For roof or ceilings, heavy materials and separation are important; and that is often a problem. A double roof do not help, unless it is airtight so sound waves cannot find it’s way in between the two layers of the roof, which may be done by filling (stuffing) the space with mineral wool and stopping as much as possible of sound waves to find it’s way in, but at the same time you will stop ventilation under the roof, which may be a problem. The ceilings are more important, than a double roof. For ceilings double gypsum plates can be used, with minimum 10 cm mineral wool on top (and of course no openings for down light lamps). Be aware of the Thai way of hanging the metal frame in wires from the roof construction, which may perform “sound bridges” and make the ceiling frame vibrate. Adjoins of the gypsum plates shall not be on top of each other, but displaced. All edges or openings shall be sealed, for example with (acrylic paint able) silicone.

Doors shall be heavy (in studios often doubled like the windows or plated with heavy material, in discos you may make a sound lock) and sealed with rubber tape at the frame. Heavy or laminated wood can by used for doors.

Of course you may not wish to make your house like a soundproof recording studio or discotheque, but the information may give you some impression of what may help you, when building your new house. The basic principles are: heavy materials, no gaps, no sound bridges, and all space stuffed with mineral wool.

Hope it may help you and wish you good luck with your new “sound proof” house.

WOW! great info....really don't need full sound-proofing....just want to get some sleep at night ...keep out the sound of barking dogs, motorcycles racing, and boom box cars ....etc. ///

m

My biggest problem seems to me (and I'm no expert) my windows ....and after thinking about it, I'm leaning NOW towards doing the 12 mm glass on the outside with an openable window on the inside (but sealed when closed) with 8mm glass (this way I can clean the windows when the moisture appears). thoughts????

And Again ....Thanks for all the info....

Fit upvc double glazing!

[Ulic]

In Canada we have sound proof drywall that works quite well. Not soundproof but pretty good.

Not sure to can get it here though.

[Joe Mamma]

Having had numerous indoor firing ranges over the years, i had to tackle the problem head-on initially and ever evolving. I originally employed the services of a sound studio builder who specialized in the art of isolating specific sound problems.

We built huge bass traps and double multi material walls, mass and open celled and even lead sheet was utilized. That sound is sneaky, it finds its way in or out in the smallest of gaps and voids. The low frequencies are the most difficult being non directional. Double doors, hanging gobos and rubber isolation for joining floors,ceilings and all walls. The loudest of magnums could be discharged in the wee hours without a neighbor hearing a snap. At least none of my neighbors complained to me!

[Saradoc1972]

In Canada we have sound proof drywall that works quite well. Not soundproof but pretty good.

Not sure to can get it here though.

For the outside walls, too?

I am virtually certain you can get gypsum plates in Thailand, like khunPer writes they use them for ceilings.

Drywalls will dampen high pitched noises adequately, but will be no use against high energy low frequencies. Those really "rock", i.e. will make the outer layer swing, and then that vibration travels through the enclosed air to the inner layer and that will then swing, too, much like the skin of a drum, because of the low mass of the gypsum plates.

The way to go is either lots of mass or that double layer of lightweight gas-cement stuff. The latter will eat up the sound because it runs dead over myriads of corners through slim connections some of which are bound not to conduct certain frequencies well. Might be preferable as heat insulation, as those bricks really retain and later give off the heat from all that sun unless you're building castle walls from them.

A double shell and insulation in between, possibly an elastic layer, will soundproof against low and high pitched noises. That's why too use western style double panes for windows. No air in between to conduct noise. And a lot of engineering went into those against problems with sound and moisture, so that may not be the place to try DIY solutions. There are even triple-pane or special sound proofed varieties on the market, though costly.

I have a rather big and heavy entrance door in my flat (i.e. to the staircase, not to the road). It's 80mm aluminium profile with a full 2mm steel plate inside, around 80 kg. I could still hear the cleaning staff rummaging with their vacuum-cleaner and talking in the staircase through it (drum skin, as above). Applied a double layer of 3mm self-adhesive bitumen plates for cars to the inner surface. Slightly reduced noise-level. Got me a 6mm HDF-board cut to size, glued it on top of the bitumen with silicone (you need some large boards and spreader bars for this). No noise left. Banging on that door will result in soft, reassuringly low solid muffled thuds.

Mass <> elastic decoupling <> mass is the way to go.

With some constructions you will obviously have to put in rigid connections to hold things in place, that ceiling is not staying up there by itself. Try rubber wafers and/or foam tape at the fastening points to at least somewhat decouple those. The latter are sold along the drywall boards in DIY-markets.

With the floating floor screed, make sure you completely decouple it from the walls by foam strips. Be triple-sure to have no rigid connections like little pebbles through the foam either under the floor or along the walls and threaten the tile setters with bodily harm if they don't leave a gap at the walls with their tile cement. Landlords have got sued over this when tenants could hear their neighbours' every single step back and forth. Make a point in wrapping the plumbing in the walls in rock-wool or those cotton-strips.

What khunPer writes really covers it all. Buy this man a beer.

While this is all very well... even with cheap labour in Thailand, this will be quite costly, and you might not want to go cheap on choosing Thai craftsmen whose work will stand up to those standards. Be a bit careful about doing things by yourself, Thai immigration can be over-zealous with that Alien Work Act 2008 and there is no hard and fast answer what they might think constitutes "working", even on your own property. Maybe talk to those guys beforehand.

[shaurene]

In my opinion 2 panes of glass doesn't make sense if they are not sealed like in the west.

Instead of double roof, I would suggest to put sound insulation on your ceiling.

I have been told in the past that 2 panes (or more) IS the solution ....The first to dampen the sound wave and the second to stop it. Most sealed double pane windows in the west are obviously better than single pane but in order to stop sound you need "mass" or an irregular surface (to deflect the sound wave).

Just what I've been told ....but do appreciate your input

Thanks

Try to find polly sheet maker and get load of 8x4s thick to go in between walls you need the western type double glazing for sure.

[bocceball1]

It is correct, that mass is the best for sound proof. However, the glass wool or Rockwool isolation between double walls is to stop standing sound waves. Using a comfort block (gassed cement with tiny air bobbles) is far better sound isolation than the normal Thai block. The double glass windows need to be sealed. All, even small, openings or gaps need to be sealed, as sound loves to find it’s way through even tiny small gaps.

I’ve been working with sound recording studios and when doing sound proof between the recording area and the control room, where the sound is played loud during a recording session inside the recording room, we would normally do some 50 to 60 dB sound proof. 6 dB (decibel) is a measure equal to 50% reduction of the sound level, but a logarithmic scale, so 12 dB equals 25%. Also between the recording area and the outside “world” we would need about 40 to 60 dB sound isolation. I’ve also been designing discotheques, where the indoor loud sound level should be reduced around 40 to 50 dB to be an acceptable outside street sound level.

For double walls we normally used heavy mass, like burned bricks (thick granite blocks are perfect), a space of minimum 10 centimeter with mineral wool (other wool materials works as fine, but mineral wool cannot burn), and then a wall of comfort blocks (gassed cement blocks). You can use comfort blocks for both walls, but the one should be double as thick as the standard Thai comfort block. The way you construct houses in Thailand with cements posts instead of bearing walls, you may need to have a comfort block wall inside or outside the posts, as the posts themselves will work as sound transporters (vibration), called a “sound bridge”.

For windows – and that would be between recording area and control room, or between recording area and outside for daylight – we would use double glass (thermo sealed) with 8 mm glass, but laminated from two 4 mm as it reduces sound transport. You can use one layer of 8 mm laminated and one side of 6 mm plain. One thermo window alone would not give enough sound isolation; so two windows with minimum 10 cm separation were used, either as two thermo or a thermo and a single 6 or 8 mm. If windows needed to be opened, for example to outdoor, the frames and rubber seals are very important, so they do not vibrate and all small gaps are sealed.

Cement floors are an excellent sound transportation for low frequencies (bass booms), which can be avoided by isolating the cement from vibration from outside waves. Now in Thai construction, that is a question if you have the cement floor on ground level or it is raised on posts. On ground level the inside cement deck should float on a sand layer and not be cast with the bearing cement beams. That can be separated by just a 1 cm foam plate, or even better with a 5 cm hard pressed mineral wool block. If raised on posts, you may need to stop the sound waves from coming in under the floor and make it vibrate, which may be a question only about stopping the sound from the road. Often optimal sound proof may need inspection in the area and measuring done.

For roof or ceilings, heavy materials and separation are important; and that is often a problem. A double roof do not help, unless it is airtight so sound waves cannot find it’s way in between the two layers of the roof, which may be done by filling (stuffing) the space with mineral wool and stopping as much as possible of sound waves to find it’s way in, but at the same time you will stop ventilation under the roof, which may be a problem. The ceilings are more important, than a double roof. For ceilings double gypsum plates can be used, with minimum 10 cm mineral wool on top (and of course no openings for down light lamps). Be aware of the Thai way of hanging the metal frame in wires from the roof construction, which may perform “sound bridges” and make the ceiling frame vibrate. Adjoins of the gypsum plates shall not be on top of each other, but displaced. All edges or openings shall be sealed, for example with (acrylic paint able) silicone.

Doors shall be heavy (in studios often doubled like the windows or plated with heavy material, in discos you may make a sound lock) and sealed with rubber tape at the frame. Heavy or laminated wood can by used for doors.

Of course you may not wish to make your house like a soundproof recording studio or discotheque, but the information may give you some impression of what may help you, when building your new house. The basic principles are: heavy materials, no gaps, no sound bridges, and all space stuffed with mineral wool.

Hope it may help you and wish you good luck with your new “sound proof” house.

WOW! great info....really don't need full sound-proofing....just want to get some sleep at night ...keep out the sound of barking dogs, motorcycles racing, and boom box cars ....etc. ///

m

My biggest problem seems to me (and I'm no expert) my windows ....and after thinking about it, I'm leaning NOW towards doing the 12 mm glass on the outside with an openable window on the inside (but sealed when closed) with 8mm glass (this way I can clean the windows when the moisture appears). thoughts????

And Again ....Thanks for all the info....

Fit upvc double glazing!

Glad to hear that Double Glazed UPVC works for you....didn't work for me!

My experiment with trying to sound proof the house was to build a cottage first. Did double walls (works great), double roof ....one concrete (works great), 12mm windows (OK) and a small area (bathroom) I used UPVC double glazed windows (Weakest point of the noise reduction experiment)

Not only does the double glazed UPVC windows allow in the slightest noise (cars driving by sound) ....the seal also broke and milked up the windows...

[jaapfries]

Look up a company in Bangkok (Samutprakan) called Miccell; they have a vast array of sound-insulation products and they are the factory producing it.

[jacko45k]

In my opinion 2 panes of glass doesn't make sense if they are not sealed like in the west.

Instead of double roof, I would suggest to put sound insulation on your ceiling.

I have been told in the past that 2 panes (or more) IS the solution ....The first to dampen the sound wave and the second to stop it. Most sealed double pane windows in the west are obviously better than single pane but in order to stop sound you need "mass" or an irregular surface (to deflect the sound wave).

Just what I've been told ....but do appreciate your input

Thanks

The guy who put in my double glazing seemed to think the size of the gap between panes was important to dampen noise.

Although the deep bass of music played Thai-style is penetrating.

By the way, they do it too in California, except from cars.

[Crossy]

Look up a company in Bangkok (Samutprakan) called Miccell; they have a vast array of sound-insulation products and they are the factory producing it.

Miccell Building Big One Complex, 221/1-3 Moo 8, Poochaosamingprai Rd., Samrong, Phra Pradaeng, Samutprakan 10130 Thailand

Google them for a map (it comes up as a Bangkok Post site so I can't link direct).

[Bcgardener]

If you want to keep costs under control then there are plenty of off the shelf materials that will do an adequate but not "over the top" job. We use them all the time in industrial soundproofing. Rock Wool (The brand here in Thailand is Rocktech) is a good start but be aware that there are different grades. The 80kg or 100KG grades offer good performance for sound reduction and cost 250 - 500 baht a square metre. use two layers of rockwool, preferably not the same thickness and separate these with a layer of Gypsum board (Drywall). Most of the Thai stuff is only around 10mm thick which is a little to thin for good performance but you can always double it up to give a 20mm thick sheet. If you want higher performance you can always use multiple layers.

The other posts are right in saying that you need mass to stop the noise and that it needs to be isolated so it cannot transmit the noise to the inside walls. There are lots of exotic products out there with exotic prices to match but I have found that the gypsum/Rockwool solution can solve most problems.

[bocceball1]

If you want to keep costs under control then there are plenty of off the shelf materials that will do an adequate but not "over the top" job. We use them all the time in industrial soundproofing. Rock Wool (The brand here in Thailand is Rocktech) is a good start but be aware that there are different grades. The 80kg or 100KG grades offer good performance for sound reduction and cost 250 - 500 baht a square metre. use two layers of rockwool, preferably not the same thickness and separate these with a layer of Gypsum board (Drywall). Most of the Thai stuff is only around 10mm thick which is a little to thin for good performance but you can always double it up to give a 20mm thick sheet. If you want higher performance you can always use multiple layers.

The other posts are right in saying that you need mass to stop the noise and that it needs to be isolated so it cannot transmit the noise to the inside walls. There are lots of exotic products out there with exotic prices to match but I have found that the gypsum/Rockwool solution can solve most problems.

Keeping costs down is a PLUS....am trying to do the most cost effective way to reduce exterior noises penetrating into the house. I keep reading that "mass" is important. With that in mind .....and the fact that I'm doing double walls....Should I just pore concrete in the space in between the two walls? OR does it isolate the sound better by putting in the "Rock Wool" between the wall space?

[khunPer]

If you want to keep costs under control then there are plenty of off the shelf materials that will do an adequate but not "over the top" job. We use them all the time in industrial soundproofing. Rock Wool (The brand here in Thailand is Rocktech) is a good start but be aware that there are different grades. The 80kg or 100KG grades offer good performance for sound reduction and cost 250 - 500 baht a square metre. use two layers of rockwool, preferably not the same thickness and separate these with a layer of Gypsum board (Drywall). Most of the Thai stuff is only around 10mm thick which is a little to thin for good performance but you can always double it up to give a 20mm thick sheet. If you want higher performance you can always use multiple layers.

The other posts are right in saying that you need mass to stop the noise and that it needs to be isolated so it cannot transmit the noise to the inside walls. There are lots of exotic products out there with exotic prices to match but I have found that the gypsum/Rockwool solution can solve most problems.

Keeping costs down is a PLUS....am trying to do the most cost effective way to reduce exterior noises penetrating into the house. I keep reading that "mass" is important. With that in mind .....and the fact that I'm doing double walls....Should I just pore concrete in the space in between the two walls? OR does it isolate the sound better by putting in the "Rock Wool" between the wall space?

With my knowledge I will not recommend that. 10 cm cement is far from enough as heavy mass (an old castle or manor wall of big granite stones will work) and may work as a huge sound bridge, or even an amplifying membrane in resonance with an irritating boom bass frequency. When talking about windows, you have no other choice than glass and the mass or construction (laminated) of the glass, as you wish to look through the windows. Furthermore concrete is an excellent heat storage, which may make your house warm and expensive to air con. Mineral wool (Rockwool) and at least one of the blocked walls with comfort blocks, that will also give you a nice indoor temperature and save on air con costs. Some kind of isolation over the gypsum ceiling will also help for both sound isolation (to stop standing waves between cement deck/roof and gypsum ceiling, even the cheap aluminum foiled bubble plastic or foam with an uneven surface will help some) and room temperature.

Always remember, that no chain is stronger than the weakest link – so any openings are critical for sound isolation – i.e. a grille to a bathroom or any other ventilation shaft; or under a door, as many Thai doors do not have a foot panel.

It may not need to be extremely costly to do a well functioning sound proof; it is merely a question of using the right material at the right places. We have seen non-functional expensive studio construction, where a fortune has been spent on costly materials, but used the wrong way and therefore not at all working as intended; and we have seen budget construction where a few cheap solutions at the right spots did the trick. However, you may only get basic knowledge suggestions, as a sound proof will need knowledge about the actual spot – and even experts who have been at a spot and done sound level measuring may do it wrong, as sound and acoustics can be extremely difficult to deal with.

[trogers]

A pair of good ear muffs is all that is needed to get a good night sleep.

Seems you should have build a house on a cliff overlooking the sea instead of one across the road from a public beach.

[bocceball1]

A pair of good ear muffs is all that is needed to get a good night sleep.

Seems you should have build a house on a cliff overlooking the sea instead of one across the road from a public beach.

I was told a story once about a rich Thai family that built a resort near the motorway around Hua Hin (a few kilometers from the beach) .....called it something like "The Sea Resort". They were asked ....since you called your resort "the Sea Resort" why didn't you build it on the water....

Their response......"Because we already owned this land"

AND by the way ....I did have to use earplugs to sleep at night when I had a house on the beach built to "Thai standards" (Still did not eliminate the thumping Bass sound)....That's the reason I posted this request....to get other people's ideas....

But Thanks anyway!

[bocceball1]

Also forgot to "Thank Everyone" who made positive constructive posts. Really helped me a lot! Some new ideas (and great ones) and some I already knew ( reinforced and made me feel better about some of my decisions)

Thanks Again

[trogers]

A pair of good ear muffs is all that is needed to get a good night sleep.

Seems you should have build a house on a cliff overlooking the sea instead of one across the road from a public beach.

I was told a story once about a rich Thai family that built a resort near the motorway around Hua Hin (a few kilometers from the beach) .....called it something like "The Sea Resort". They were asked ....since you called your resort "the Sea Resort" why didn't you build it on the water....

Their response......"Because we already owned this land"

AND by the way ....I did have to use earplugs to sleep at night when I had a house on the beach built to "Thai standards" (Still did not eliminate the thumping Bass sound)....That's the reason I posted this request....to get other people's ideas....

But Thanks anyway!

Will need a bomb shelter to eliminate the thumping Bass - a room with a shell of 10-inch thick reinforced concrete all round.

[twr404]

In my opinion 2 panes of glass doesn't make sense if they are not sealed like in the west.

Instead of double roof, I would suggest to put sound insulation on your ceiling.

I have been told in the past that 2 panes (or more) IS the solution ....The first to dampen the sound wave and the second to stop it. Most sealed double pane windows in the west are obviously better than single pane but in order to stop sound you need "mass" or an irregular surface (to deflect the sound wave).

Just what I've been told ....but do appreciate your input

Thanks

A close friend of mine built his own recording studio, which require superior sound insulation. The glass window from the control booth looking into the main studio is huge double glass, 4' x 8'. And you are correct about your statement concerning irregular surfaces. To create an irregular surface with two exactly similar pieces of glass, the common practice is to angle one piece, say 3-5 degrees. (i don't know the exact angle) so it would take a lot of custom installation work in a house but seems like you are willing to invest the effort? Visiting audio recording websites are full of info concerning sound dampening.