US government shuts down as Congress misses deadline

[slipperylobster]

Awwww shucks....politics again. Look at all the whining kids complaining.... as if any country in the world was without faults.

[MaxYakov]

Sen Reid and Sen McCain, among other senators, spoke today on the Senate floor about this shameful failure of the government, i.e., its inability due to its being closed down, to provide the funds to each family of the 14 US military personnel killed in conflicts abroad since the government was shut down.

Each death "benefit" is $100,000 tax free. But the Congress has failed to provide any kind of budget funding to the US Government. So closed it remains.

Payment is impossible until the Congress adopts a budget of some kind.

You don't have a clue as to what is really going on. You keep saying the government is "closed" and you seem to be the only one using that description. Maybe you should do some research to determine what is actually occurring. I understand that would probably be difficult for you. Here's a Forbes article. Alas, you probably believe that Forbes is a mouthpiece for a conspiracy by some "Neo-Confederate/Radical Republicans" (and maybe they are):

We Are Shutting Down Only Thirteen Percent of the Government (At Most)

Eighty cents out of every federal non-defense dollar represents a transfer from taxpayer to recipient. Entitlement transfers do not require annual Congressional approval. They can be changed only by entitlement reform, which is not on the table. We cannot, therefore “shut down” a federal government whose primary business is income redistribution.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2013/10/03/we-are-shutting-down-only-thirteen-percent-of-the-government-at-most/

As far as funding for the families of recent war casualties by the DoD goes, it appears as though the DoD went on a "spending spree" of some 5.5 billion just before the shutdown:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101085249

And the DoD can't come up with the relative "pocket change" for those families?

Give us a break!

You don't know?!

800,000 federal employees were "furloughed" beginning October 1st, the beginning of the new fiscal year, when the Congress failed to provide funding of the US Government.

They're back on the job since Congress took action to assure the 800,000 would be paid retroactively when all of this circus blows over and the Congress finally does vote to fund the US Government.

BTW, given you're also shooting your mouth off recklessly about Forbes magazine and myself, I read Forbes regularly, Gordon Chang's regular column especially.

I was well-aware of the 800,000 furloughs. I'm also aware of the return of only 350,000 DoD furloughs according this very descriptive article (Bloomberg):

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-10-08/furloughed-u-s-federal-workers-await-half-sized-paycheck.html

But what do you call it when/if they get all their pay retroactively? I call it a paid vacation. It seems from the article that they're getting half-pay and will get full, retroactive pay. It also states that many of them are living "paycheck-to-paycheck". Frankly, I don't know what to believe from that article. I avoid assuming any information I get from any source (unless I see or hear the source actually saying it on audio or video - and even that can be edited - NBC, Zimmerman) is the "absolute Truth", only a plausibility factor ranging from 0 to 10.

If the Forbes article is accurate, about only 13% (or less) of the government was "shut down" and the 800,000 is included in that 13% it illustrates how bloated the government spending on entitlements and the remaining "essential" activities is. I gave you a "probable" on your potential disbelief for the Forbes article, based on your obvious bias and seeming obsession with the potential negative impact of the "shutdown" - which has already been countered by another on this thread.

[MaxYakov]

The Affordable Care Act is law, ideology notwithstanding

The ACA went through the required legislative process. There's an old saying that two things people don't want to see made are sausages and laws. I can confirm there's a good deal of truth to that.

Reopen the government unconditionally.

Proceed by regular order.

Let's have some rule of law here.

Signed: Barack H. Obama

(Now let me get back to my other Executive Orders, I'm backlogged and I've promised some folks changes to my ... ahhhh ... signature legislation (wink, wink) by today ... )

Is the president saying the same?

My, my, what a coincidence .

Obviously, not - considering that you are an obvious Obamabot - the point of my post. Of course, the reference to Obama's modifying the ACA legislation through Executive Order (and other nefarious means, I'm sure) was ignored even though it pertains to your continual rule of law protestations.

[Publicus]

The Affordable Care Act is law, ideology notwithstanding

The ACA went through the required legislative process. There's an old saying that two things people don't want to see made are sausages and laws. I can confirm there's a good deal of truth to that.

Reopen the government unconditionally.

Proceed by regular order.

Let's have some rule of law here.

Signed: Barack H. Obama

(Now let me get back to my other Executive Orders, I'm backlogged and I've promised some folks changes to my ... ahhhh ... signature legislation (wink, wink) by today ... )

Is the president saying the same?

My, my, what a coincidence .

Obviously, not - considering that you are an obvious Obamabot - the point of my post. Of course, the reference to Obama's modifying the ACA legislation through Executive Order (and other nefarious means, I'm sure) was ignored even though it pertains to your continual rule of law protestations.

So I am an "Obamabot?"

Which by you would mean what?

That I'm not human?

That I'm invalid?

That I'm not an American?

What???!

[GentlemanJim]

Well everyone can argue as much as they like about this, how dreadful not to get in to National parks and you can't even get a picture of Mount Rushmore, and Government workers laid off, but all of it has NOTHING compared with this:

The USA has just broke it's covenant with the Military !!

Families of fallen troops are being denied military death benefits because of the government shutdown.

Over the weekend, the relatives of at least five U.S. military members received the heartbreaking news that their loved ones had died protecting their country while on duty in Afghanistan.

Within three days, the government was supposed to have fulfilled its promise to give $100,000 to these grieving families -- a "death gratuity" that is supposed to help cover funeral costs, as well as immediate living expenses until survivor benefits kick in. According to USA Today, the money is also supposed to cover family travel expenses so that they're able to meet their loved ones returning home for burial in flag-draped coffins at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware.

Unfortunately, the government has been unable to fulfill this promise because of the shutdown, leaving the families high and dry during this vulnerable time.

In a media release Tuesday, the Pentagon confirmed that it has suspended death benefits to families of fallen troops.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/08/shutdown-death-benefits_n_4064625.html?ncid=webmail21

So, during Government shutdowns it is still ok to send young men and women to war, but if you pay the ultimate price and die 'we will send your family an IOU' !!! Shocking.

There will be repercussions from this. Never never break your covenant with those willing to die for their country. This will hit the Republicans hard and I hope when Obama wakes up this morning he grows a pair and says 'I know I am breaking the law but I authorize the 5 payments of 100K to be made immediately'. What a national disgrace.

[Ulysses G.]

There will be repercussions from this. Never never break your covenant with those willing to die for their country. This will hit the Republicans hard

It won't hit the Republicans at all. Congress already passed a bill before the shutdown to fund the continuation of all benefits to military families, but, so far, the Department of Defence has chosen to ignore it.

[GentlemanJim]

There will be repercussions from this. Never never break your covenant with those willing to die for their country. This will hit the Republicans hard

It won't hit the Republicans at all. Congress already passed a bill before the shutdown to fund the continuation of all benefits to military families, but, so far, the Department of Defence has chosen to ignore it.

Ulysees, as always ever contrary no matter what. Either you or your beloved John Boehner are talking BS, and guess who my money is on........

The VA pays out about $5 billion the first of each month to veterans in compensation and pension payments, Dillon says.

Meanwhile, the families of four soldiers and a Marine killed in Afghanistan since the shutdown last week are not receiving a $100,000 death gratuity or any unpaid income due their loved ones, or being reimbursement for burial expenses, the Pentagon says.

"Unfortunately, as a result of the shutdown, we do not have the legal authority to make death gratuity payments at this time," says Navy Lt. Com. Nate Christensen, a Pentagon spokesman.

House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, said Tuesday that the chamber will advance a bill Wednesday addressing military death benefit payments. "The House is going to act specifically on this and I hope the president will sign it," he said.

Now why would Boehner say that if they already had a bill to prevent such things. Perhaps you will come back now that the speaker has forgotten the bills that Congress have already passed. Maybe you should drop him a line telling him he already did the bill and the Department of Defence is ignoring it

I stand by my original comments. Now please post details of the bill, I am sure some of us would love to see that the Dept of Defence are choosing to ignore Congress. It is either Mutiny or a ridiculous statement, now which one may it be...................

[Ulysses G.]

There will be repercussions from this. Never never break your covenant with those willing to die for their country. This will hit the Republicans hard

It won't hit the Republicans at all. Congress already passed a bill before the shutdown to fund the continuation of all benefits to military families, but, so far, the Department of Defence has chosen to ignore it.

Ulysees, as always ever contrary no matter what. Either you or your beloved John Boehner are talking BS, and guess who my money is on........

The VA pays out about $5 billion the first of each month to veterans in compensation and pension payments, Dillon says.

Meanwhile, the families of four soldiers and a Marine killed in Afghanistan since the shutdown last week are not receiving a $100,000 death gratuity or any unpaid income due their loved ones, or being reimbursement for burial expenses, the Pentagon says.

"Unfortunately, as a result of the shutdown, we do not have the legal authority to make death gratuity payments at this time," says Navy Lt. Com. Nate Christensen, a Pentagon spokesman.

House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, said Tuesday that the chamber will advance a bill Wednesday addressing military death benefit payments. "The House is going to act specifically on this and I hope the president will sign it," he said.

Now why would Boehner say that if they already had a bill to prevent such things. Perhaps you will come back now that the speaker has forgotten the bills that Congress have already passed. Maybe you should drop him a line telling him he already did the bill and the Department of Defence is ignoring it

I stand by my original comments. Now please post details of the bill, I am sure some of us would love to see that the Dept of Defence are choosing to ignore Congress. It is either Mutiny or a ridiculous statement, now which one may it be...................

Maybe you should quote everything that Boehner had to say:

House lawmakers, though, are planning to vote Wednesday on a bill to restore funding for the payments. And Speaker John Boehner on Tuesday accused the Obama administration of needlessly withholding the money.

Boehner claimed a bill passed by Congress and signed by the president last week to pay America's troops should have given the Pentagon the latitude "to pay all kinds of bills, including this."

"I think it's disgraceful that they're withholding these benefits," Boehner said, urging Obama to sign the bill that the House will take up on Wednesday. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/10/08/pentagon-freezes-death-benefits-for-fallen-soldiers-families/

[chuckd]

The House has passed a number of legislative actions. Here are a few of them. Only one of the bills has been signed into law and that is the one funding the Department 0f Defense. All other funding bills have been stopped at the desk of Senator Harry Reid (D-NV).

From the link provided below:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The next vote on a House GOP proposal to fund the government came at 12:22 a.m. on Sunday, Sept. 29. This bill provided money to pay active duty and reserve members of the Armed Forces and to pay the civilian personnel and contractors of the Department of Defense. The Democratic leadership decided not to block this one, so it passed 423-0 in the House, was approved by the Senate by unanimous consent, and was signed by Obama on Monday, Sept. 30. -

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

...and...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At 7:44 p.m. on Tuesday night, the House voted on a bill to fund veterans' benefits and the operations of the Department of Veterans Affairs. This was appoved 264-164, with 33 House Democrats joining with all House Republicans in favor of it. The Senate immediately tabled this. -

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

...and yet again...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At 4:48 p.m. on Thursday, the House once again took up a bill to fund veterans benefits and operations of the Department of Veterans Affairs. This time, it passed 259-157, with 35 House Democrats backing it. This bill has not been taken up by the Senate.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/terence-p-jeffrey/growing-number-democrats-voting-house-gop-fund-non-obamacare-parts

[chuckd]

Regardless of the actions taken by political apointees, there will always be good, patriotic Americans that will step up to solve problems.

It has happened in this case:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Personal donations offered to pick up slack in government funding

4:46 PM 10/08/2013

After it was reported Tuesday that the shutdown would prevent death benefits from being provided to families of soldiers killed in combat, the Fisher House Foundation offered an “advance grant” to make sure those benefits are covered.

In a letter to Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel, West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin announced the plan.

“This afternoon, I spoke to Ken Fisher, the CEO of the Fisher House Foundation,” Manchin wrote. “The Fisher House Foundation humbly volunteered to offer the families an advance grant to ensure there is no funding gap during the most difficult of times, with the understanding that reimbursements would be made at an appropriate time.”

“The Fisher House will fund flights, hotels and other incidentals for all family members,” he said.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/08/personal-donations-offered-to-pick-up-slack-in-government-funding/#ixzz2hEZIXYpZ

[MaxYakov]

There will be repercussions from this. Never never break your covenant with those willing to die for their country. This will hit the Republicans hard

It won't hit the Republicans at all. Congress already passed a bill before the shutdown to fund the continuation of all benefits to military families, but, so far, the Department of Defence has chosen to ignore it.

Ulysees, as always ever contrary no matter what. Either you or your beloved John Boehner are talking BS, and guess who my money is on........

The VA pays out about $5 billion the first of each month to veterans in compensation and pension payments, Dillon says.

Meanwhile, the families of four soldiers and a Marine killed in Afghanistan since the shutdown last week are not receiving a $100,000 death gratuity or any unpaid income due their loved ones, or being reimbursement for burial expenses, the Pentagon says.

"Unfortunately, as a result of the shutdown, we do not have the legal authority to make death gratuity payments at this time," says Navy Lt. Com. Nate Christensen, a Pentagon spokesman.

House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, said Tuesday that the chamber will advance a bill Wednesday addressing military death benefit payments. "The House is going to act specifically on this and I hope the president will sign it," he said.

Now why would Boehner say that if they already had a bill to prevent such things. Perhaps you will come back now that the speaker has forgotten the bills that Congress have already passed. Maybe you should drop him a line telling him he already did the bill and the Department of Defence is ignoring it

I stand by my original comments. Now please post details of the bill, I am sure some of us would love to see that the Dept of Defence are choosing to ignore Congress. It is either Mutiny or a ridiculous statement, now which one may it be...................

Neither. The "Department of Defence [sic]" is an Executive Department and the Secretary of Defense, Chuck Hagel, is an Obama nominee. One would think that any mutiny within it would be against the POTUS, yes?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Defense

[Baloo22]

Well everyone can argue as much as they like about this, how dreadful not to get in to National parks and you can't even get a picture of Mount Rushmore, and Government workers laid off, but all of it has NOTHING compared with this:

The USA has just broke it's covenant with the Military !!

Families of fallen troops are being denied military death benefits because of the government shutdown.

Over the weekend, the relatives of at least five U.S. military members received the heartbreaking news that their loved ones had died protecting their country while on duty in Afghanistan.

Within three days, the government was supposed to have fulfilled its promise to give $100,000 to these grieving families -- a "death gratuity" that is supposed to help cover funeral costs, as well as immediate living expenses until survivor benefits kick in. According to USA Today, the money is also supposed to cover family travel expenses so that they're able to meet their loved ones returning home for burial in flag-draped coffins at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware.

Unfortunately, the government has been unable to fulfill this promise because of the shutdown, leaving the families high and dry during this vulnerable time.

In a media release Tuesday, the Pentagon confirmed that it has suspended death benefits to families of fallen troops.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/08/shutdown-death-benefits_n_4064625.html?ncid=webmail21

So, during Government shutdowns it is still ok to send young men and women to war, but if you pay the ultimate price and die 'we will send your family an IOU' !!! Shocking.

There will be repercussions from this. Never never break your covenant with those willing to die for their country. This will hit the Republicans hard and I hope when Obama wakes up this morning he grows a pair and says 'I know I am breaking the law but I authorize the 5 payments of 100K to be made immediately'. What a national disgrace.

If Obama did that, he would not be breaking the law. In fact, he should direct his Department of Defense to do just that.

The “Pay Our Military Act” authorized the Department of Defense to pay military benefits to the men and women of our military forces.

What happened is that the Department of Defense decided not to pay those death benefits.

It was a Department of Defense decision.

"How can they do this?" you ask. Well, when Congress passed the Act (and many other bills/acts like this) they don't specify every single specific possible payment that it could be made.

Bills/Acts like this do not get down into:

"You may pay service members that travel to Fort Turbine, Colorado to attend Course 103-09867"

"You may pay service members that travel to Fort Turbine, Colorado to attend Course 103-09868"

"You may pay service members that travel to Fort Turbine, Colorado to attend Course 103-09869"

"You may pay service members that travel to Fort Turbine, Colorado to attend Course 103-09870"

You get the point!!

After the Act was passed, the Department of Defense decided; "Oh, we don't think the Act authorizes those death benefits."

Again, it was a deliberate decision by the Department of Defense.

Now, the House of Representatives is preparing a bill to explicitly direct the Department of Defense to make those payments to the survivors of troops who are killed.

Now we wait for the next installment of Obama's "Let's make the citizens suffer!" shutdown campaign!

---------------------------------------------

Source - House GOP preps DOD death benefits fix

"Republicans on the House Armed Services Committee disagree. Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-Calif.) sent a letter to Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel Tuesday accusing the Pentagon of making a “careless legal interpretation” to deny benefits."

<snip>

"House Armed Services Chairman Buck McKeon (R-Calif.) said in a statement Tuesday that Congress intended for death benefits to continue as part of the military pay law that was passed last week. "Without question, that was our clear intent," McKeon said."

<snip>

"A House GOP aide said House Republicans still believe the Pentagon can pay out the benefits now, because the death gratuity is included in the list of Pentagon pays and allowances."

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies have been deleted.

[Publicus]

Republican Party Favorability Sinks to Record Low

Falls 10 percentage points from September's 38%

With the Republican-controlled House of Representatives engaged in a tense, government-shuttering budgetary standoff against a Democratic president and Senate, the Republican Party is now viewed favorably by 28% of Americans, down from 38% in September. This is the lowest favorable rating measured for either party since Gallup began asking this question in 1992.

The Democratic Party also has a public image problem -- although not on the same elephantine scale as that of the Republican Party -- with 43% viewing the Democratic Party favorably, down four percentage points from last month.

These findings come from a Gallup poll conducted Oct. 3-6 that followed the Oct. 1 partial government shutdown after lawmakers in Washington were unable to pass a spending plan for the federal government.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/165317/republican-party-favorability-sinks-record-low.aspx

Yeah, I know, polls schmolls.

The fact is the Republican party is no longer driven by facts. It is instead driven by a new group of people who hear voices from somewhere far away. Very far out.

[chuckd]

Those voices from very far out are called constituents.

Now for the forgotten part of the polls...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Going down? Obama approval hits 37%

October 9, 2013

The Associated Press-GfK survey, is out and no one has a reason to gloat, least of all President Obama, whose job approval rating has hit an all time low of 37%, while his disapproval rating rises to 53%.

The poll also shows that 62% mainly blame republicans but that about 50% say Obama and democrats in the congress share much of the blame. <<<snip>>> The media has decided to place the fault on the republicans and respondents give that answer automatically, but when asked to consider Obama's and the democrat's role in the shutdown, they place the blame on both.

http://www.examiner.com/article/going-down-obama-approval-hits-37

[Publicus]

Those voices from very far out are called constituents.

Now for the forgotten part of the polls...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Going down? Obama approval hits 37%

October 9, 2013

The Associated Press-GfK survey, is out and no one has a reason to gloat, least of all President Obama, whose job approval rating has hit an all time low of 37%, while his disapproval rating rises to 53%.

The poll also shows that 62% mainly blame republicans but that about 50% say Obama and democrats in the congress share much of the blame. <<<snip>>> The media has decided to place the fault on the republicans and respondents give that answer automatically, but when asked to consider Obama's and the democrat's role in the shutdown, they place the blame on both.

http://www.examiner.com/article/going-down-obama-approval-hits-37

That's a website you cite that also says Obama is preparing the country for a coup against the Constitution and that the United States is already on the verge of martial law.

As I'd said, people who constantly hear voices from afar.

[chuckd]

Those voices from very far out are called constituents.

Now for the forgotten part of the polls...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Going down? Obama approval hits 37%

October 9, 2013

The Associated Press-GfK survey, is out and no one has a reason to gloat, least of all President Obama, whose job approval rating has hit an all time low of 37%, while his disapproval rating rises to 53%.

The poll also shows that 62% mainly blame republicans but that about 50% say Obama and democrats in the congress share much of the blame. <<<snip>>> The media has decided to place the fault on the republicans and respondents give that answer automatically, but when asked to consider Obama's and the democrat's role in the shutdown, they place the blame on both.

http://www.examiner.com/article/going-down-obama-approval-hits-37

That's a website you cite that also says Obama is preparing the country for a coup against the Constitution and that the United States is already on the verge of martial law.

As I'd said, people who constantly hear voices from afar.

I thought you would probably attack my source rather than the message.

Sadly I am unable to find a single source from NBC, ABC, CBS, MSNBC or other main stream media outlet that finds the numbers worth mentioning. You see, they don't cover things like this.

See if you find these links any more reliable:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/congress/ap-gfk-poll-republicans-get-most-blame-for-shutdown-tea-party-is-a-big-and-divisive-factor/2013/10/09/a6631cc4-30b4-11e3-9ddd-bdd3022f66ee_story.html

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2013/10/09/media-fail-obama-approval-drops-to37

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/public-blames-obama-gop/2013/10/09/id/530025

Why, even the vaunted Huffington Post had this to say, buried in the middle of their article:

"Most Americans disapprove of the way Obama is handling his job, the poll suggests, with 53 percent unhappy with his performance and 37 percent approving of it."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/09/government-shutdown-republicans-poll_n_4069254.html

and this one: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/53224470/ns/politics/#.UlZpctK2Pvk

[Publicus]

The GOP Is Losing Their Shutdown War as Independents Favor Democrats by 9% in 2014

The reason for the shift is that Independents blame Republicans more than Democrats for the shutdown by 51% to 37%.

In July, Independents were 39% for Republicans and 27% for Democrats.

Independents have shifted 21 points on the generic ballot from July when Republicans had a 39/27 advantage with them

http://www.politicususa.com/2013/10/09/gop-losing-war-obama-21-independents-shift-democrats.html

There's a lot of news today.

As someone said on television earlier today, it looks as if the fever has broke.

Now there's talk the debt ceiling will be raised no problem and that a clean CR may well be attached to the vote on it.

Nothing about ObamaCare, i.e., the Affordable Care Act.

There seems to be a realization among the tea party Republicans that, in the present divided government, they aren't going to get a defunding of ObamaCare. I could have told them that weeks ago. Speaker John Boehner should have said that to 'em some time ago too.

The chances of Prez Obama agreeing to completely or partially defund or meet House Republicans' demands to delay or postpone parts of the law they don't like most, always were zero percent. Who in his right mind didn't already know that?!

[Credo]

I thought you would probably attack my source rather than the message.

Sadly I am unable to find a single source from NBC, ABC, CBS, MSNBC or other main stream media outlet that finds the numbers worth mentioning. You see, they don't cover things like this.

See if you find these links any more reliable:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/congress/ap-gfk-poll-republicans-get-most-blame-for-shutdown-tea-party-is-a-big-and-divisive-factor/2013/10/09/a6631cc4-30b4-11e3-9ddd-bdd3022f66ee_story.html

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2013/10/09/media-fail-obama-approval-drops-to37

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/public-blames-obama-gop/2013/10/09/id/530025

Why, even the vaunted Huffington Post had this to say, buried in the middle of their article:

"Most Americans disapprove of the way Obama is handling his job, the poll suggests, with 53 percent unhappy with his performance and 37 percent approving of it."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/09/government-shutdown-republicans-poll_n_4069254.html

and this one: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/53224470/ns/politics/#.UlZpctK2Pvk

The President won't be running for re-election, but some of your congress folks will.

[Pinot]

This isn't about how the US government sucks. The government shutdown is the result of the radicalization of the conservative right. The tea party has taken over the republican asylum. This will be political suicide for the republicans. They should be all be perp walked out of congress for trying to sabotage the government.

California is once again showing the way how a government should operate. First you get rid of the republicans and everything else falls in line. You're able to govern again, something the republicans have long forgotten how to do.

That's right, California is showing the way (to collapse, like Detroit):

Debt:

"All told, California’s current debt load — not including billions in liabilities for public pensions and retirement health care benefits — is roughly $132 billion."

http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/news/2013/09/06/californias-current-debt-load-132.html

Unemployment:

California adds jobs, but unemployment rate rises to 8.9% (national - 7/3%)

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-california-jobs-20130921,0,5426857.story

Welfare:

"34% Of the nation’s welfare recipients live in California but only …

12% … of the U.S. population resides here."

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/Jul/28/welfare-capital-of-the-us/

Way to go, California and the majority Democrat-controlled government!

The US Federal government is obviously dysfunctional as well. Shouldn't something that is dysfunctional be shut down (or incarcerated or somehow constrained)?

Note:

I was a California resident and taxpayer until I realized that 50-60% of my hard-earned paycheck was going to the parasitical State and Federal governments (aka 'others'). I stopped work and left both the US, California, the IRS and the California Franchise Tax Board to extract their required time and life from others. They will eventually run out of 'others' as did Detroit.

Being a US taxpayer was a job this American refused to do. The parasites will have to find 'others' until they run out of them.

This is exactly the type that makes up the Republican party. It's all about them vs. the hard working (white) little guy. The type that wants to shut the government because they hate the (black) President and the "others" so much. Fortunately for Americans, these people are becoming further and further marginalized. This crazy shut down attempt should finish them.

Everyone knows people like this in the US. The kind that watch Fox News all day, have a large gun collection and hate minorities or as the above refers to them parasites. I bet they really miss him in the old neighborhood.

[midas]

Could it get any more bizarre than this?

How much would it cost the US government to provide security to prevent people from going anywhere in that area?

Rangers arrest 21 for venturing into Grand Canyon post-shutdown

Park officials have been ordered to patrol the Grand Canyon 24 hours a day, seven days a week, a measure that’s obviously not cheap.

The Grand Canyon, arguably one of the most popular National Parks in the U.S., financially depends on October’s revenue, as it’s considered the peak season for tourism, typically hosting 18,000 visitors throughout the month.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/9/rangers-arrest-21-venturing-grand-canyon-post-shut/

[Baloo22]

This isn't about how the US government sucks. The government shutdown is the result of the radicalization of the conservative right. The tea party has taken over the republican asylum. This will be political suicide for the republicans. They should be all be perp walked out of congress for trying to sabotage the government.

California is once again showing the way how a government should operate. First you get rid of the republicans and everything else falls in line. You're able to govern again, something the republicans have long forgotten how to do.

That's right, California is showing the way (to collapse, like Detroit):

Debt:

"All told, California’s current debt load — not including billions in liabilities for public pensions and retirement health care benefits — is roughly $132 billion."

http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/news/2013/09/06/californias-current-debt-load-132.html

Unemployment:

California adds jobs, but unemployment rate rises to 8.9% (national - 7/3%)

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-california-jobs-20130921,0,5426857.story

Welfare:

"34% Of the nation’s welfare recipients live in California but only …

12% … of the U.S. population resides here."

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/Jul/28/welfare-capital-of-the-us/

Way to go, California and the majority Democrat-controlled government!

The US Federal government is obviously dysfunctional as well. Shouldn't something that is dysfunctional be shut down (or incarcerated or somehow constrained)?

Note:

I was a California resident and taxpayer until I realized that 50-60% of my hard-earned paycheck was going to the parasitical State and Federal governments (aka 'others'). I stopped work and left both the US, California, the IRS and the California Franchise Tax Board to extract their required time and life from others. They will eventually run out of 'others' as did Detroit.

Being a US taxpayer was a job this American refused to do. The parasites will have to find 'others' until they run out of them.

This is exactly the type that makes up the Republican party. It's all about them vs. the hard working (white) little guy. The type that wants to shut the government because they hate the (black) President and the "others" so much. Fortunately for Americans, these people are becoming further and further marginalized. This crazy shut down attempt should finish them.

Everyone knows people like this in the US. The kind that watch Fox News all day, have a large gun collection and hate minorities or as the above refers to them parasites. I bet they really miss him in the old neighborhood.

No, it's the Republican that are the ones with a sense of responsibility to our children and grandchildren and those that come after them. Those that will have to pay the massive and ever increasing debt being charged up by the irresponsible and integrity-challenged Obama and Democrats. Sense of responsibility! That's what it is all about. The Republicans in the People's House of Representatives have it. Obama and the Democrats do not have it.

Obama and the Democrats rely on massive debt spending to buy votes. Obama and the Democrats in the US are an accurate parallel of the Shinawatra's and the Pheu Thai here in Thailand. With one it's Rice Crop Pledging and with the other it's massive government spending/giveaways. With both, it's all about buying votes with deficit spending that future generations will have to pay and suffer for.

Obama and the Democrats are out-of-control credit card spenders. Except that they are the ones to raise their own credit limit!! If you have a credit card and continually overspend, and don't pay even the minimum, eventually the bank will refuse to raise your credit limit and your card-charging stops. But Obama and the Democrats constantly demand that their credit limit be raised again and again and again.

For the good or our country and our future generations, the People's Representatives in the House must refuse to increase the credit card limit of Obama and the Democrats. They must stand firm in their defiance of Obama-Reid until meaningful budget-balancing negotiations take place. They must refuse to raise the debt ceiling until meaningful spending reductions are enacted. They must fight against Obama and his goal of turning the United States into the "Greece" of the western hemisphere.

[chuckd]

This isn't about how the US government sucks. The government shutdown is the result of the radicalization of the conservative right. The tea party has taken over the republican asylum. This will be political suicide for the republicans. They should be all be perp walked out of congress for trying to sabotage the government.

California is once again showing the way how a government should operate. First you get rid of the republicans and everything else falls in line. You're able to govern again, something the republicans have long forgotten how to do.

That's right, California is showing the way (to collapse, like Detroit):

Debt:

"All told, California’s current debt load — not including billions in liabilities for public pensions and retirement health care benefits — is roughly $132 billion."

http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/news/2013/09/06/californias-current-debt-load-132.html

Unemployment:

California adds jobs, but unemployment rate rises to 8.9% (national - 7/3%)

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-california-jobs-20130921,0,5426857.story

Welfare:

"34% Of the nation’s welfare recipients live in California but only …

12% … of the U.S. population resides here."

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/Jul/28/welfare-capital-of-the-us/

Way to go, California and the majority Democrat-controlled government!

The US Federal government is obviously dysfunctional as well. Shouldn't something that is dysfunctional be shut down (or incarcerated or somehow constrained)?

Note:

I was a California resident and taxpayer until I realized that 50-60% of my hard-earned paycheck was going to the parasitical State and Federal governments (aka 'others'). I stopped work and left both the US, California, the IRS and the California Franchise Tax Board to extract their required time and life from others. They will eventually run out of 'others' as did Detroit.

Being a US taxpayer was a job this American refused to do. The parasites will have to find 'others' until they run out of them.

This is exactly the type that makes up the Republican party. It's all about them vs. the hard working (white) little guy. The type that wants to shut the government because they hate the (black) President and the "others" so much. Fortunately for Americans, these people are becoming further and further marginalized. This crazy shut down attempt should finish them.

Everyone knows people like this in the US. The kind that watch Fox News all day, have a large gun collection and hate minorities or as the above refers to them parasites. I bet they really miss him in the old neighborhood.

People that have nothing else resort to the racist drum beat. Cannot frame a logical argument, call your opponents racists.

[Publicus]

Confederates.

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been deleted.

[MaxYakov]

This isn't about how the US government sucks. The government shutdown is the result of the radicalization of the conservative right. The tea party has taken over the republican asylum. This will be political suicide for the republicans. They should be all be perp walked out of congress for trying to sabotage the government.

California is once again showing the way how a government should operate. First you get rid of the republicans and everything else falls in line. You're able to govern again, something the republicans have long forgotten how to do.

That's right, California is showing the way (to collapse, like Detroit):

Debt:

"All told, California’s current debt load — not including billions in liabilities for public pensions and retirement health care benefits — is roughly $132 billion."

http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/news/2013/09/06/californias-current-debt-load-132.html

Unemployment:

California adds jobs, but unemployment rate rises to 8.9% (national - 7/3%)

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-california-jobs-20130921,0,5426857.story

Welfare:

"34% Of the nation’s welfare recipients live in California but only …

12% … of the U.S. population resides here."

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/Jul/28/welfare-capital-of-the-us/

Way to go, California and the majority Democrat-controlled government!

The US Federal government is obviously dysfunctional as well. Shouldn't something that is dysfunctional be shut down (or incarcerated or somehow constrained)?

Note:

I was a California resident and taxpayer until I realized that 50-60% of my hard-earned paycheck was going to the parasitical State and Federal governments (aka 'others'). I stopped work and left both the US, California, the IRS and the California Franchise Tax Board to extract their required time and life from others. They will eventually run out of 'others' as did Detroit.

Being a US taxpayer was a job this American refused to do. The parasites will have to find 'others' until they run out of them.

This is exactly the type that makes up the Republican party. It's all about them vs. the hard working (white) little guy. The type that wants to shut the government because they hate the (black) President and the "others" so much. Fortunately for Americans, these people are becoming further and further marginalized. This crazy shut down attempt should finish them.

Everyone knows people like this in the US. The kind that watch Fox News all day, have a large gun collection and hate minorities or as the above refers to them parasites. I bet they really miss him in the old neighborhood.

Guessing, speculating, typing and labeling are you? You missed me by a mile, but I'll spare you the details.

I guess I should have used the term: human parasites so as not to insult the non-human variety and to help avoid the inevitable accusations (implicit or explicit) of my making 'racist' statements (see my question below).

You have also have avoided commenting on the documented, untoward situation in California, which was the real point of my reply. Should I do Detroit and Stockton as well or would it be another waste of my time?

You also seem to have a thing about the 'hard working (white) little guy'. Any particular reason you included 'white' and 'little guy' in your description? BTW, 'hard-working' is more acceptable and avoids potential misunderstanding.

Yep, the IRS and CSFTB really miss me and I'm glad to be out of their neighborhood.

[Publicus]

Here's a full accounting by the NYT of the failed conservative planning since last January that led to the present debacle of a government shutdown in the unsuccessful effort to defund ObamaCare.

It's a debacle for the country and for the conservative Confederates in particular.

The article documents the long planning, the big money behind the present crisis and the major players, to include a big money campaign which is still ongoing to try to hoodwink young people into not signing up for ObamaCare, ie., the Affordable Care Act.

Very revealing, comprehensive, informative.

A Federal Budget Crisis Months in the Planning

Shortly after President Obama started his second term, a loose-knit coalition of conservative activists led by former Attorney General Edwin Meese III gathered in the capital to plot strategy. Their push to repeal Mr. Obama’s health care law was going nowhere, and they desperately needed a new plan.

Out of that session, held one morning in a location the members insist on keeping secret, came a little-noticed “blueprint to defunding Obamacare,” signed by Mr. Meese and leaders of more than three dozen conservative groups.

It articulated a take-no-prisoners legislative strategy that had long percolated in conservative circles: that Republicans could derail the health care overhaul if conservative lawmakers were willing to push fellow Republicans — including their cautious leaders — into cutting off financing for the entire federal government.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/us/a-federal-budget-crisis-months-in-the-planning.html?pagewanted=1

[FDog]

Good reason for Obama to stop admiring himself in the mirror and actually start talking.

[notmyself]

There's a great irony in all the GOP fans here banging on about them wanting to stop the borrowing, when it's their hamfisted and criminal abuse of the banking system that led to it being required in the first place.

2 questions.

If the clean bill were put on the floor, would is pass?

How has the deficit done under Obama? If that has not been reduced then the borrowing level is an issue, if it has then it is not.

[boomerangutang]

Just be glad Romney and Ryan didn't get the nod. They were planning to keep military spending at or above the US's war-footing expenditures, and also do nothing to try to remove the many schemes rich people and corps use to hide/launder money and avoid taxes.