US government shuts down as Congress misses deadline

[Chicog]

Didn't the ACA already pass both houses?

And the Supreme Court.

They've tried to repeal it 40-something times and lost every time.

They are a little bit dumb.

[notmyself]

Didn't the ACA already pass both houses?

And the Supreme Court.

They've tried to repeal it 40-something times and lost every time.

They are a little bit dumb.

Would the revenue generated by removing church tax exemption get anywhere close to covering the cost?

[kennedy]

This thread has come to a new low, when someone quotes a known racist. eg Westley Puden.

[Scott]

A post violating Fair Use Policy has been deleted.

[NeverSure]

Just what do you folks think Obamacare is anyway, and why are you so supportive of it? It's been open for business for a week and I don't know anyone who's joined. People trying to join are getting sticker shock. They are forced to buy it and it's too expensive.

Even the White House, as recently as this afternoon won't say how many people have joined. LINK

To me it sounds as if you think the government is giving someone something. Many voters think that but that fallacy will become clear as the days and weeks roll on.

As in any government program, the slippage and waste from government administration is where the cost will be, and none of that for actual health care providers giving patient care.

Everyone knows that the cost of health care in the US is too high, but this does nothing to address that. It forces people to buy health insurance to cover these high costs.

I don't understand what all of the flag waving is about. Polls, Schmolls. By the time the next election comes around, people will know what Obamacare really is and the Democrats may be handed their asses.

[wilcopops]

The republicans seem to prefer to play politics rather than consider the fate of the average American.

The effects of their dog-in-the-manger attitude will be felt world-wide apart from the obvious economic ramifications their are the effects of the shut down of various scientific services that the rest of the world relies on, weather, disease spotting, etc etc.

The Republicans have finally got got they wanted SMALL GOVERNMENT - and now everyone can see the results - I doubt if they like what they see - looks like the GOP has shot themselves in the foot on this one......

As for Obamacare - it is such a tiny step in altering what is probably the worst national healthcare system in the civilised world, the opposition is clearly just using it as a device to impose their dogma. The shutdown will only underline the benefits.

Edited October 8, 2013 by wilcopops

[NeverSure]

I guess all those rich Republican Congressman and women are seeing this stalemate they have created as a great buying opportunity on Wall Street.

How many times does it need to be said? Democrat members of Congress are far wealthier than Republicans. Link

Maybe the Democrats including Obama by totally refusing to negotiate have their own agenda? $$$

Even Obama is worth about $12 million and he started with nothing. Strange? Link

Bill and Hillary Clinton also started with nothing and are worth, more or less, $100 million. Link

Edited October 8, 2013 by NeverSure

[Credo]

My guess is that the average republican is richer than the average democrat. But I doubt that congressmen would be directly involved in shutting down the gov't to buy stocks. There's a good chance they would get caught and then there would be an ethics probe.

[NeverSure]

My guess is that the average republican is richer than the average democrat. But I doubt that congressmen would be directly involved in shutting down the gov't to buy stocks. There's a good chance they would get caught and then there would be an ethics probe.

Overall in both houses it's about a tie with the Dems having about a 10% lead. Scroll down for chart. Link

But this BS about "Rich Republicans" when used in comparison to Democrats is just another lie to fool the sheeple.

One thing that doesn't always show is the wealth of the spouse. For instance John Kerry, recently a Democrat Senator and now Secretary of State is married to the heir of the Heinz (Ketchup, etc.) fortune and is beyond filthy rich.

[Credo]

I am not talking about Congressmen, I am talking about members of the party or those aligned with the party.

[Publicus]

Just what do you folks think Obamacare is anyway, and why are you so supportive of it? It's been open for business for a week and I don't know anyone who's joined. People trying to join are getting sticker shock. They are forced to buy it and it's too expensive.

Even the White House, as recently as this afternoon won't say how many people have joined. LINK

To me it sounds as if you think the government is giving someone something. Many voters think that but that fallacy will become clear as the days and weeks roll on.

As in any government program, the slippage and waste from government administration is where the cost will be, and none of that for actual health care providers giving patient care.

Everyone knows that the cost of health care in the US is too high, but this does nothing to address that. It forces people to buy health insurance to cover these high costs.

I don't understand what all of the flag waving is about. Polls, Schmolls. By the time the next election comes around, people will know what Obamacare really is and the Democrats may be handed their asses.

House Republicans have shut down the government because they want to kill Obamacare.

The Republican party in the House needs instead to pass the "clean" funding resolution so the US Government can reopen and continue to function on its everyday basis. This means decoupling Obamacare from the CR vote.

The Republicans in the House need to leave the matter of Obamacare, the Affordable Care Act, to the voters in the next election.

Obamacare was enacted into law by votes of the House and the Senate and has been upheld as Constitutional by the Supreme Court. Prez Obama last year won reelection on Obamacare.

Yet Republicans in the House have voted an absurd 42 times to repeal Obamacare, the ACA, but we still have it because no one else sent to Washington agrees with them.

House Republicans have turned this into a kind of labor-management union strike situation which engages opposing sides in a wild and protracted battle of wills rather than living by laws and a Constitution.

So let's have the rule of law, please, thank you.

[NeverSure]

Just what do you folks think Obamacare is anyway, and why are you so supportive of it? It's been open for business for a week and I don't know anyone who's joined. People trying to join are getting sticker shock. They are forced to buy it and it's too expensive.

Even the White House, as recently as this afternoon won't say how many people have joined. LINK

To me it sounds as if you think the government is giving someone something. Many voters think that but that fallacy will become clear as the days and weeks roll on.

As in any government program, the slippage and waste from government administration is where the cost will be, and none of that for actual health care providers giving patient care.

Everyone knows that the cost of health care in the US is too high, but this does nothing to address that. It forces people to buy health insurance to cover these high costs.

I don't understand what all of the flag waving is about. Polls, Schmolls. By the time the next election comes around, people will know what Obamacare really is and the Democrats may be handed their asses.

House Republicans have shut down the government because they want to kill Obamacare.

The Republican party in the House needs instead to pass the "clean" funding resolution so the US Government can reopen and continue to function on its everyday basis. This means decoupling Obamacare from the CR vote.

The Republicans in the House need to leave the matter of Obamacare, the Affordable Care Act, to the voters in the next election.

Obamacare was enacted into law by votes of the House and the Senate and has been upheld as Constitutional by the Supreme Court. Prez Obama last year won reelection on Obamacare.

Yet Republicans in the House have voted an absurd 42 times to repeal Obamacare, the ACA, but we still have it because no one else sent to Washington agrees with them.

House Republicans have turned this into a kind of labor-management union strike situation which engages opposing sides in a wild and protracted battle of wills rather than living by laws and a Constitution.

So let's have the rule of law, please, thank you.

What? The rule of law? The people gave the Republicans a big majority in the House of Representatives which controls the purse strings. The "law" is that no spending bills pass without approval of the House.

Whatcha talkin' 'bout?

As for the rule of law, the law is that the Senate prepares an annual budget which must be approved by the House. The Senate has blatantly failed to prepare any budget for the last 3 years, but expects the House to approve its <deleted>' spending.

The law?

[NeverSure]

I am not talking about Congressmen, I am talking about members of the party or those aligned with the party.

From here it doesn't look that way. Most of the truly rich are Democrats. Bill Gates, the richest man in the world is a democrat. So is Warren Buffet. So is Larry Ellison. Those are the three richest men in America.

Now look at Hollywood. Hard to find a Republican there. Hard for a conservative to even find work there.

The owners of the mainstream media and the CEO's are extremely liberal. So are the CEO's of many large corporations.

If you look at the top 100 richest families, where their combined wealth (Walmart heirs, Rockefellers, Kennedys, etc.) add to vast fortunes, then 75% of Forbe's list of 100 richest people in the US are - blink - Democrats. Link

Here's what I think happens. Someone gets extremely rich by hard work and luck or by inheritance. America provides that opportunity. Then that person feels, if not guilty, then somehow feels that being liberal will make them a good person. Environment? Entitlements? Whatever? Sure, it feels good to be for all of that.

But the rest of us can't afford it. Neither can America.

One parting shot: The poor by chance or by choice are almost always democrat because the democrats are the party of gimme. Oh the democrats won't give their money in taxes to pay for their programs. They always have the tax breaks and the gimmicks. They want to give away your money and my money. They didn't get rich being stupid.

[chuckd]

Obamacare was passed without one single Republican vote and did not include one single Republican contribution to the bill. It was hammered through by Pelosi and Reid using Congressional rules and back room deals.

While much noise has been forthcoming recently about Obamacare being the law of the land, it should be noted that if that statement is correct, exactly what gives the White House the authority to pick and choose which parts of it they want to enforce and which parts they want to grant waivers on for their particular constitutiencies.

The law states the individual and business mandates are to become effective 1 January 2014. Yet Obama, by Executive Order, delayed the small business mandate until 1 January 2015 while leaving the individual mandate in place. Why? If the mandate is no good for small businesses then why is it acceptable for individuals? Yet another mysterious and unfathomanable decision made by the Chicago gang.

I notice some chest beating about the Supreme Courts decision to uphold part of the law concerning the ability of Congress to require citizens to purchase a good or service. The claim that the law has been upheld is well ahead of its time. There are several challenges to Obamacare that are in litigation at this point and the SCOTUS decisions on them will have to come at a later time. One of the more interesting challenges will be whether the bill as passed was even legal in the first place. The Constitution gives the House of Representatives the power of the budget in the Origination Clause in Article I. But ObamaCare's taxing and spending sections actually originated in the Senate, a maneuver not yet ruled on by the Supreme Court.

If, as all the liberals claim, the rule of law must be followed, then all parties should follow the same rule of law, including the White House.

[Chicog]

None of which detracts from the fact that the Tea Party are making House Republicans blackmail the government in order to screw up Obamacare.

Like I said, pathetic.

Let the House vote on a clean bill, why should Boehner be able to screw up the democratic process on his own just because he's afraid of losing his personal pay day?

Added: Not far to the next big squabble, eh?

Bunch of kids the lot of them.

Edited October 8, 2013 by Chicog

[Credo]

So, basically, you don't like Obamacare, Chuckd? If no Republican voted for it then it can't become law? Is that what your saying? If it goes the Supreme Court and the SC says it's OK, that's still not good enough?

You might want to have a little think about these things.

[chuckd]

So, basically, you don't like Obamacare, Chuckd? If no Republican voted for it then it can't become law? Is that what your saying? If it goes the Supreme Court and the SC says it's OK, that's still not good enough?

You might want to have a little think about these things.

Well, let me see.

I read my post again and...nope. Didn't say any of those things you wanted to hear me say.

The Supreme Court has only ruled the commerce clause as being Constitutional stating that Congress has the right to regulate Commerce by raising taxes. The Court took the rather extreme position that even though the law states the penalty for not obtaining insurance is in actuality a tax, that makes the commerce clause constitutional. The court in the same decision declared part of the act unconstitutional.

There will be more decisions forthcoming.

You're right about one thing though. I don't like Obamacare.

[Chicog]

You wonder if people actually read these things before passing them?

In the UK they are still trying to work out child benefits. Apparently if you are the only breadwinner and earning 60k or more, you must declare your child benefits as taxable income (or maybe even return them, I'm not sure).

If both parents are earning 59,999 then you don't.

Which to me sort of defeats the point a bit.

[Publicus]

Reopen the US Government then argue your points to the public, which opposes the government shutdown to the tune of 72%.

Reopen the government.

[Publicus]

Obamacare was passed without one single Republican vote and did not include one single Republican contribution to the bill. It was hammered through by Pelosi and Reid using Congressional rules and back room deals.

While much noise has been forthcoming recently about Obamacare being the law of the land, it should be noted that if that statement is correct, exactly what gives the White House the authority to pick and choose which parts of it they want to enforce and which parts they want to grant waivers on for their particular constitutiencies.

The law states the individual and business mandates are to become effective 1 January 2014. Yet Obama, by Executive Order, delayed the small business mandate until 1 January 2015 while leaving the individual mandate in place. Why? If the mandate is no good for small businesses then why is it acceptable for individuals? Yet another mysterious and unfathomanable decision made by the Chicago gang.

I notice some chest beating about the Supreme Courts decision to uphold part of the law concerning the ability of Congress to require citizens to purchase a good or service. The claim that the law has been upheld is well ahead of its time. There are several challenges to Obamacare that are in litigation at this point and the SCOTUS decisions on them will have to come at a later time. One of the more interesting challenges will be whether the bill as passed was even legal in the first place. The Constitution gives the House of Representatives the power of the budget in the Origination Clause in Article I. But ObamaCare's taxing and spending sections actually originated in the Senate, a maneuver not yet ruled on by the Supreme Court.

If, as all the liberals claim, the rule of law must be followed, then all parties should follow the same rule of law, including the White House.

Reopen the government and respect the regular order of processes and procedures.

Take your fanaticism against the Affordable Care Act back to the voters - again - in the elections of next year.

Respect the regular order of processes and procedures.

Edited October 8, 2013 by Publicus

[MaxYakov]

Just what do you folks think Obamacare is anyway, and why are you so supportive of it? It's been open for business for a week and I don't know anyone who's joined. People trying to join are getting sticker shock. They are forced to buy it and it's too expensive.

Even the White House, as recently as this afternoon won't say how many people have joined. LINK

To me it sounds as if you think the government is giving someone something. Many voters think that but that fallacy will become clear as the days and weeks roll on.

As in any government program, the slippage and waste from government administration is where the cost will be, and none of that for actual health care providers giving patient care.

Everyone knows that the cost of health care in the US is too high, but this does nothing to address that. It forces people to buy health insurance to cover these high costs.

I don't understand what all of the flag waving is about. Polls, Schmolls. By the time the next election comes around, people will know what Obamacare really is and the Democrats may be handed their asses.

House Republicans have shut down the government because they want to kill Obamacare.

The Republican party in the House needs instead to pass the "clean" funding resolution so the US Government can reopen and continue to function on its everyday basis. This means decoupling Obamacare from the CR vote.

The Republicans in the House need to leave the matter of Obamacare, the Affordable Care Act, to the voters in the next election.

Obamacare was enacted into law by votes of the House and the Senate and has been upheld as Constitutional by the Supreme Court. Prez Obama last year won reelection on Obamacare.

Yet Republicans in the House have voted an absurd 42 times to repeal Obamacare, the ACA, but we still have it because no one else sent to Washington agrees with them.

House Republicans have turned this into a kind of labor-management union strike situation which engages opposing sides in a wild and protracted battle of wills rather than living by laws and a Constitution.

So let's have the rule of law, please, thank you.

Ah, yes the rule of law. Forget your history?:

The Eighteenth Amendment (Amendment XVIII) of the United States Constitution effectively established the prohibition of alcoholic beverages in the United States by declaring the production, transport and sale of (though not the consumption or private possession of) alcohol illegal.

To be repealed by:

The Twenty-first Amendment (Amendment XXI) to the United States Constitution repealed the Eighteenth Amendment (Amendment XVIII) which had mandated nationwide Prohibition of alcohol on January 17, 1920

But the really bad one, IMHO was this one:

The Sixteenth Amendment (Amendment XVI) to the United States Constitution allows the Congress to levy an income tax without apportioning it among the states or basing it on the United States Census.

Which gave the Federal Government the power to confiscate private wealth by force and distribute it as it sees fit. We see the results of that 'rule of law' these days, don't we? But even the extraction of taxes from citizens was not enough funding for Congress, given the nearly 17 trillion dollar debt, was it?

It's a sobering thought, to me anyway, to realize that borrowing is required to operate the Federal government. Hence the approaching debt-limit standoff. Obviously, contrary to Obama's statements, if the debt-limit is raised, that implies that continued borrowing is intended. Otherwise, why raise it?

Obamacare

(Could it be a parallel to the 18th amendment - attempting to mandate morality through legislation?):

You might want to research the way the so-called Obamacare was passed and how, exactly, the Supreme Court was able to declare it constitutional or have you been asleep the last four years or so?

Note: All of the above constitutional amendment-related quotes are easily-searched Wiki article extracts

Edited October 8, 2013 by MaxYakov

[Publicus]

Just what do you folks think Obamacare is anyway, and why are you so supportive of it? It's been open for business for a week and I don't know anyone who's joined. People trying to join are getting sticker shock. They are forced to buy it and it's too expensive.

Even the White House, as recently as this afternoon won't say how many people have joined. LINK

To me it sounds as if you think the government is giving someone something. Many voters think that but that fallacy will become clear as the days and weeks roll on.

As in any government program, the slippage and waste from government administration is where the cost will be, and none of that for actual health care providers giving patient care.

Everyone knows that the cost of health care in the US is too high, but this does nothing to address that. It forces people to buy health insurance to cover these high costs.

I don't understand what all of the flag waving is about. Polls, Schmolls. By the time the next election comes around, people will know what Obamacare really is and the Democrats may be handed their asses.

House Republicans have shut down the government because they want to kill Obamacare.

The Republican party in the House needs instead to pass the "clean" funding resolution so the US Government can reopen and continue to function on its everyday basis. This means decoupling Obamacare from the CR vote.

The Republicans in the House need to leave the matter of Obamacare, the Affordable Care Act, to the voters in the next election.

Obamacare was enacted into law by votes of the House and the Senate and has been upheld as Constitutional by the Supreme Court. Prez Obama last year won reelection on Obamacare.

Yet Republicans in the House have voted an absurd 42 times to repeal Obamacare, the ACA, but we still have it because no one else sent to Washington agrees with them.

House Republicans have turned this into a kind of labor-management union strike situation which engages opposing sides in a wild and protracted battle of wills rather than living by laws and a Constitution.

So let's have the rule of law, please, thank you.

Ah, yes the rule of law. Forget your history?:

The Eighteenth Amendment (Amendment XVIII) of the United States Constitution effectively established the prohibition of alcoholic beverages in the United States by declaring the production, transport and sale of (though not the consumption or private possession of) alcohol illegal.

To be repealed by:

The Twenty-first Amendment (Amendment XXI) to the United States Constitution repealed the Eighteenth Amendment (Amendment XVIII) which had mandated nationwide Prohibition of alcohol on January 17, 1920

But the really bad one, IMHO was this one:

The Sixteenth Amendment (Amendment XVI) to the United States Constitution allows the Congress to levy an income tax without apportioning it among the states or basing it on the United States Census.

Which gave the Federal Government the power to confiscate private wealth by force and distribute it as it sees fit. We see the results of that 'rule of law' these days, don't we? But even the extraction of taxes from citizens was not enough funding for Congress, given the nearly 17 trillion dollar debt, was it?

It's a sobering thought, to me anyway, to realize that borrowing is required to operate the Federal government. Hence the approaching debt-limit standoff. Obviously, contrary to Obama's statements, if the debt-limit is raised, that implies that continued borrowing is intended. Otherwise, why raise it?

Obamacare

(Could it be a parallel to the 18th amendment - attempting to mandate morality through legislation?):

You might want to research the way the so-called Obamacare was passed and how, exactly, the Supreme Court was able to declare it constitutional or have you been asleep the last four years or so?

Note: All of the above constitutional amendment-related quotes are easily-searched Wiki article extracts

Argue your case to the electorate of the United States.

Simultaneously, reopen the Government of the United States.

And honor, respect, maintain, the full faith and credit of the United States.

Observe and respect the regular order of lawmaking in Washington.

It's called the rule of law.

Edited October 8, 2013 by Publicus

[MaxYakov]

Just what do you folks think Obamacare is anyway, and why are you so supportive of it? It's been open for business for a week and I don't know anyone who's joined. People trying to join are getting sticker shock. They are forced to buy it and it's too expensive.

Even the White House, as recently as this afternoon won't say how many people have joined. LINK

To me it sounds as if you think the government is giving someone something. Many voters think that but that fallacy will become clear as the days and weeks roll on.

As in any government program, the slippage and waste from government administration is where the cost will be, and none of that for actual health care providers giving patient care.

Everyone knows that the cost of health care in the US is too high, but this does nothing to address that. It forces people to buy health insurance to cover these high costs.

I don't understand what all of the flag waving is about. Polls, Schmolls. By the time the next election comes around, people will know what Obamacare really is and the Democrats may be handed their asses.

House Republicans have shut down the government because they want to kill Obamacare.

The Republican party in the House needs instead to pass the "clean" funding resolution so the US Government can reopen and continue to function on its everyday basis. This means decoupling Obamacare from the CR vote.

The Republicans in the House need to leave the matter of Obamacare, the Affordable Care Act, to the voters in the next election.

Obamacare was enacted into law by votes of the House and the Senate and has been upheld as Constitutional by the Supreme Court. Prez Obama last year won reelection on Obamacare.

Yet Republicans in the House have voted an absurd 42 times to repeal Obamacare, the ACA, but we still have it because no one else sent to Washington agrees with them.

House Republicans have turned this into a kind of labor-management union strike situation which engages opposing sides in a wild and protracted battle of wills rather than living by laws and a Constitution.

So let's have the rule of law, please, thank you.

Ah, yes the rule of law. Forget your history?:

The Eighteenth Amendment (Amendment XVIII) of the United States Constitution effectively established the prohibition of alcoholic beverages in the United States by declaring the production, transport and sale of (though not the consumption or private possession of) alcohol illegal.

To be repealed by:

The Twenty-first Amendment (Amendment XXI) to the United States Constitution repealed the Eighteenth Amendment (Amendment XVIII) which had mandated nationwide Prohibition of alcohol on January 17, 1920

But the really bad one, IMHO was this one:

The Sixteenth Amendment (Amendment XVI) to the United States Constitution allows the Congress to levy an income tax without apportioning it among the states or basing it on the United States Census.

Which gave the Federal Government the power to confiscate private wealth by force and distribute it as it sees fit. We see the results of that 'rule of law' these days, don't we? But even the extraction of taxes from citizens was not enough funding for Congress, given the nearly 17 trillion dollar debt, was it?

It's a sobering thought, to me anyway, to realize that borrowing is required to operate the Federal government. Hence the approaching debt-limit standoff. Obviously, contrary to Obama's statements, if the debt-limit is raised, that implies that continued borrowing is intended. Otherwise, why raise it?

Obamacare

(Could it be a parallel to the 18th amendment - attempting to mandate morality through legislation?):

You might want to research the way the so-called Obamacare was passed and how, exactly, the Supreme Court was able to declare it constitutional or have you been asleep the last four years or so?

Note: All of the above constitutional amendment-related quotes are easily-searched Wiki article extracts

Argue your case to the electorate of the United States.

Simultaneously, reopen the Government of the United States.

And honor, respect, maintain, the full faith and credit of the United States.

Observe and respect the regular order of lawmaking in Washington.

It's called the rule of law.

The 'regular order of lawmaking in Washington'?

Shouldn't you be writing material for Jay Leno or SNL having such insight?

PS: I won't be taking anything to the electorate of the US, since they did not directly enact it. The US is a representative republic under a constitution, in case you hadn't noticed and it certainly would not be the first time the so-called representatives had made a big mistake. The US electorate will, hopefully, take care of this one way or the other when they see the downsides involved.

The ACA passed with narrow margins (even if the margin were considered legally obtained). Don't you think that such legislation is just a little dubious? Ever hear of the term: tyranny of the majority?

Edited October 8, 2013 by MaxYakov

[chuckd]

Ah, yes the rule of law. Forget your history?:

The Eighteenth Amendment (Amendment XVIII) of the United States Constitution effectively established the prohibition of alcoholic beverages in the United States by declaring the production, transport and sale of (though not the consumption or private possession of) alcohol illegal.

To be repealed by:

The Twenty-first Amendment (Amendment XXI) to the United States Constitution repealed the Eighteenth Amendment (Amendment XVIII) which had mandated nationwide Prohibition of alcohol on January 17, 1920

But the really bad one, IMHO was this one:

The Sixteenth Amendment (Amendment XVI) to the United States Constitution allows the Congress to levy an income tax without apportioning it among the states or basing it on the United States Census.

Which gave the Federal Government the power to confiscate private wealth by force and distribute it as it sees fit. We see the results of that 'rule of law' these days, don't we? But even the extraction of taxes from citizens was not enough funding for Congress, given the nearly 17 trillion dollar debt, was it?

It's a sobering thought, to me anyway, to realize that borrowing is required to operate the Federal government. Hence the approaching debt-limit standoff. Obviously, contrary to Obama's statements, if the debt-limit is raised, that implies that continued borrowing is intended. Otherwise, why raise it?

Obamacare

(Could it be a parallel to the 18th amendment - attempting to mandate morality through legislation?):

You might want to research the way the so-called Obamacare was passed and how, exactly, the Supreme Court was able to declare it constitutional or have you been asleep the last four years or so?

Note: All of the above constitutional amendment-related quotes are easily-searched Wiki article extracts

Argue your case to the electorate of the United States.

Simultaneously, reopen the Government of the United States.

And honor, respect, maintain, the full faith and credit of the United States.

Observe and respect the regular order of lawmaking in Washington.

It's called the rule of law.

Both the observation of, and the respect for, the regular order of lawmaking were severely abused by the Democratic Party's passage of this flawed bill in 2009.

Where were your exhortations for fairness then?

[Publicus]

The Affordable Care Act is law, ideology notwithstanding

The ACA went through the required legislative process. There's an old saying that two things people don't want to see made are sausages and laws. I can confirm there's a good deal of truth to that.

Reopen the government unconditionally.

Proceed by regular order.

Let's have some rule of law here.

[RubbaJohnny]

Although tragic for the poor this impasse actually reveals a democratic process with different actors.

Real debate and conflicting views discussed openly.

Surely this is better than behind closed doors.

Who elected head of state in China UK etc

[MaxYakov]

The Affordable Care Act is law, ideology notwithstanding

The ACA went through the required legislative process. There's an old saying that two things people don't want to see made are sausages and laws. I can confirm there's a good deal of truth to that.

Reopen the government unconditionally.

Proceed by regular order.

Let's have some rule of law here.

Signed: Barack H. Obama

(Now let me get back to my other Executive Orders, I'm backlogged and I've promised some folks changes to my ... ahhhh ... signature legislation (wink, wink) by today ... )

Edited October 8, 2013 by MaxYakov

[Ulysses G.]

Reopen the government unconditionally.

"Raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure".

-Barack Obama 2006

[Publicus]

The Affordable Care Act is law, ideology notwithstanding

The ACA went through the required legislative process. There's an old saying that two things people don't want to see made are sausages and laws. I can confirm there's a good deal of truth to that.

Reopen the government unconditionally.

Proceed by regular order.

Let's have some rule of law here.

Signed: Barack H. Obama

(Now let me get back to my other Executive Orders, I'm backlogged and I've promised some folks changes to my ... ahhhh ... signature legislation (wink, wink) by today ... )

[Credo]

So, the method by which ObamaCare passed was devious and in some posters opinion, illegal. This from the group who support reading "Green Eggs and Ham". Is that how you think the gov't should function?