US government shuts down as Congress misses deadline

[Publicus]

*Deleted post edited out*

Nixon and Sen Strom Thurmond of South Carolina, that's how.

Thurmond switched to Republican from Democrat.

Thurmond then led what's called in history as Prez Nixon's "Southern Strategy."

In the 1972 quadrennial election, the "Solid South", that is, the southern states that had always voted Democratic since Civil War Reconstruction, voted Republican, for Nixon-Agnew.

With rare exception, the Solid South southern states have been voting Republican since.

Now you've learned something.

So it's good that you asked, your welcome.

[lannarebirth]

Two basic ways of looking at a country's national debt. The US government has chosen an absolute number for the country's debt ceiling.

US federal debt as an absolute number

US federal debt - absolute.png

US federal debt as a percentage of GDP

US federal debt - relative.jpg

US federal debt ceiling

US federal debt - ceiling.png

Better than either of those methods is a ratio of Revenues to Debt. Revenues have decreased at worst, remained stagnant at best. Debts continue to rise sharply.

http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/fed_chart_gallery

Estimates of future revenues are probably over-optimistic.

[NeverSure]

If they shut Washington DC clear down, sent everyone home and then burned it down, it would be fine with me. The people could then keep their money, the states would raise taxes some to provide some of the services, and I wouldn't have this federal government breathing down my neck.

Each state has a National Guard with good military equipment - enough that all 50 of them and 100 million armed Americans could repel any invasion. We don't need the huge military being the world's policeman anyway, and this would stop it. Set up a very small federal military to man the nukes, etc., but make it 1/10th the size it is. ALL we need to do is to be capable of defending our own soil which we can.

As evidence, the mighty US military with all of the tricks up its sleeve hasn't won a war since WWII. The guerillas who fought against the US from N. Korea and 'Nam to Afghanistan have always been able to hold their own. You can't defeat a determined population on its own soil.

So, let's just shut it down, keep our money, and go have a beer. OK, I know that's oversimplified, but I'd truly like to see something in that direction.

The US government is way too big, way too expensive, and totally overbearing at home and worldwide.

[Publicus]

If they shut Washington DC clear down, sent everyone home and then burned it down, it would be fine with me. The people could then keep their money, the states would raise taxes some to provide some of the services, and I wouldn't have this federal government breathing down my neck.

Each state has a National Guard with good military equipment - enough that all 50 of them and 100 million armed Americans could repel any invasion. We don't need the huge military being the world's policeman anyway, and this would stop it. Set up a very small federal military to man the nukes, etc., but make it 1/10th the size it is. ALL we need to do is to be capable of defending our own soil which we can.

As evidence, the mighty US military with all of the tricks up its sleeve hasn't won a war since WWII. The guerillas who fought against the US from N. Korea and 'Nam to Afghanistan have always been able to hold their own. You can't defeat a determined population on its own soil.

So, let's just shut it down, keep our money, and go have a beer. OK, I know that's oversimplified, but I'd truly like to see something in that direction.

The US government is way too big, way too expensive, and totally overbearing at home and worldwide.

[F430murci]

If they shut Washington DC clear down, sent everyone home and then burned it down, it would be fine with me. The people could then keep their money, the states would raise taxes some to provide some of the services, and I wouldn't have this federal government breathing down my neck.

Each state has a National Guard with good military equipment - enough that all 50 of them and 100 million armed Americans could repel any invasion. We don't need the huge military being the world's policeman anyway, and this would stop it. Set up a very small federal military to man the nukes, etc., but make it 1/10th the size it is. ALL we need to do is to be capable of defending our own soil which we can.

As evidence, the mighty US military with all of the tricks up its sleeve hasn't won a war since WWII. The guerillas who fought against the US from N. Korea and 'Nam to Afghanistan have always been able to hold their own. You can't defeat a determined population on its own soil.

So, let's just shut it down, keep our money, and go have a beer. OK, I know that's oversimplified, but I'd truly like to see something in that direction.

The US government is way too big, way too expensive, and totally overbearing at home and worldwide.

Haha, do you realize how this sounds. Breathing down your neck, armed resistance do away with America . . . Hopefully you are already having that beer as this is pretty un-American.

Who cares if the bafoones fight and act like bafoones. Life is good, work your butt off, accomplish your dreams and we all need to stop worrying about everyone else's dysfunction.

Obama is just extremely divisive and I think a lot of this has to do with racial animosity and groups of paranoid good ole boys who think a black dude is just out to get them. Could be a karma thing they are worried about . . ., but . . . Half of these numbskulls have no clue about our health care system or Obamacare, but think is it just a black president taking money from the whites and shifting the wealth to the blacks. All of this hate and deep seeded animosity has to be driven by some deep personal issues and racial tension is the prime suspect here.

[Publicus]

If they shut Washington DC clear down, sent everyone home and then burned it down, it would be fine with me. The people could then keep their money, the states would raise taxes some to provide some of the services, and I wouldn't have this federal government breathing down my neck.

Each state has a National Guard with good military equipment - enough that all 50 of them and 100 million armed Americans could repel any invasion. We don't need the huge military being the world's policeman anyway, and this would stop it. Set up a very small federal military to man the nukes, etc., but make it 1/10th the size it is. ALL we need to do is to be capable of defending our own soil which we can.

As evidence, the mighty US military with all of the tricks up its sleeve hasn't won a war since WWII. The guerillas who fought against the US from N. Korea and 'Nam to Afghanistan have always been able to hold their own. You can't defeat a determined population on its own soil.

So, let's just shut it down, keep our money, and go have a beer. OK, I know that's oversimplified, but I'd truly like to see something in that direction.

The US government is way too big, way too expensive, and totally overbearing at home and worldwide.

Haha, do you realize how this sounds. Breathing down your neck, armed resistance do away with America . . . Hopefully you are already having that beer as this is pretty un-American.

Who cares if the bafoones fight and act like bafoones. Life is good, work your butt off, accomplish your dreams and we all need to stop worrying about everyone else's dysfunction.

Obama is just extremely divisive and I think a lot of this has to do with racial animosity and groups of paranoid good ole boys who think a black dude is just out to get them. Could be a karma thing they are worried about . . ., but . . . Half of these numbskulls have no clue about our health care system or Obamacare, but think is it just a black president taking money from the whites and shifting the wealth to the blacks. All of this hate and deep seeded animosity has to be driven by some deep personal issues and racial tension is the prime suspect here.

The die hard Confederates.

Also, my experience with the right wing is that they advocate only two functions of the federal government: a department of defense and a department of veterans' affairs. Everything else has to go, never should have been.

Now I'm hearing only a small "federal" army, when there would be no federal government, to control the US nuclear arsenal.

[slipperylobster]

Sometimes one gets a feeling that the good 'ole US of A is more of a banana republic than , say, Thailand;-)

Where in the hay did you come up with that silly statement?

[kirk0233]

There are few issues Republicans feel as passionately about as the health care reform, which they have dubbed ``Obamacare.’’ They see the plan, intended to provide coverage for the millions of Americans now uninsured, as wasteful and restricting freedom by requiring most Americans to have health insurance.

How awful to be burdened with the restriction of health insurance. I suppose republicans like to wing it and hope nothing happens to them. Reminds me of local logic.

[pigeonjake]

If they shut Washington DC clear down, sent everyone home and then burned it down, it would be fine with me. The people could then keep their money, the states would raise taxes some to provide some of the services, and I wouldn't have this federal government breathing down my neck.

Each state has a National Guard with good military equipment - enough that all 50 of them and 100 million armed Americans could repel any invasion. We don't need the huge military being the world's policeman anyway, and this would stop it. Set up a very small federal military to man the nukes, etc., but make it 1/10th the size it is. ALL we need to do is to be capable of defending our own soil which we can.

As evidence, the mighty US military with all of the tricks up its sleeve hasn't won a war since WWII. The guerillas who fought against the US from N. Korea and 'Nam to Afghanistan have always been able to hold their own. You can't defeat a determined population on its own soil.

So, let's just shut it down, keep our money, and go have a beer. OK, I know that's oversimplified, but I'd truly like to see something in that direction.

The US government is way too big, way too expensive, and totally overbearing at home and worldwide.

yep that would stop 99% of the wars in the world,,.lol

[Mosha]

If they shut Washington DC clear down, sent everyone home and then burned it down, it would be fine with me. The people could then keep their money, the states would raise taxes some to provide some of the services, and I wouldn't have this federal government breathing down my neck.

Each state has a National Guard with good military equipment - enough that all 50 of them and 100 million armed Americans could repel any invasion. We don't need the huge military being the world's policeman anyway, and this would stop it. Set up a very small federal military to man the nukes, etc., but make it 1/10th the size it is. ALL we need to do is to be capable of defending our own soil which we can.

As evidence, the mighty US military with all of the tricks up its sleeve hasn't won a war since WWII. The guerillas who fought against the US from N. Korea and 'Nam to Afghanistan have always been able to hold their own. You can't defeat a determined population on its own soil.

So, let's just shut it down, keep our money, and go have a beer. OK, I know that's oversimplified, but I'd truly like to see something in that direction.

The US government is way too big, way too expensive, and totally overbearing at home and worldwide.

yep that would stop 99% of the wars in the world,,.lol

Previous occupants had a great system. No taxes and women did all the work, except hunting.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts have been deleted. The two main parties have proper names. Using disparaging terms is inflammatory and, although it may emphasize your opinion, it is inflammatory and distracts from the information in your post.

Replies have also been deleted.

[NeverSure]

If they shut Washington DC clear down, sent everyone home and then burned it down, it would be fine with me. The people could then keep their money, the states would raise taxes some to provide some of the services, and I wouldn't have this federal government breathing down my neck.

Each state has a National Guard with good military equipment - enough that all 50 of them and 100 million armed Americans could repel any invasion. We don't need the huge military being the world's policeman anyway, and this would stop it. Set up a very small federal military to man the nukes, etc., but make it 1/10th the size it is. ALL we need to do is to be capable of defending our own soil which we can.

As evidence, the mighty US military with all of the tricks up its sleeve hasn't won a war since WWII. The guerillas who fought against the US from N. Korea and 'Nam to Afghanistan have always been able to hold their own. You can't defeat a determined population on its own soil.

So, let's just shut it down, keep our money, and go have a beer. OK, I know that's oversimplified, but I'd truly like to see something in that direction.

The US government is way too big, way too expensive, and totally overbearing at home and worldwide.

Haha, do you realize how this sounds. Breathing down your neck, armed resistance do away with America . . . Hopefully you are already having that beer as this is pretty un-American.

Who cares if the bafoones fight and act like bafoones. Life is good, work your butt off, accomplish your dreams and we all need to stop worrying about everyone else's dysfunction.

Obama is just extremely divisive and I think a lot of this has to do with racial animosity and groups of paranoid good ole boys who think a black dude is just out to get them. Could be a karma thing they are worried about . . ., but . . . Half of these numbskulls have no clue about our health care system or Obamacare, but think is it just a black president taking money from the whites and shifting the wealth to the blacks. All of this hate and deep seeded animosity has to be driven by some deep personal issues and racial tension is the prime suspect here.

Well, I hope you didn't think I advocated armed resistance to do away with America. If you do, read it again.

Obama is divisive due to his policies. He was divisive about Syria, for instance which had nothing to do with his color.

Your dream that this is about race is really skewed. It's about spending wastefully, at which Obama is the best we've ever had. It's also about forcing many people to do what they don't want to do, in a supposedly free country.

The opposition to Obamacare is that some of are convinced it will fail, leaving us with more debt. Don't tell me I don't understand how it works. It isn't free national health care, nor is it universal national health care. It requires everyone to buy insurance or pay a penalty. It's more government intrusion, not an "entitlement."

Neither blacks nor anyone else will gain "free" health care and shift wealth from anyone to anyone. In fact the poor will suffer most, being forced to buy or pay a penalty.

The whole scheme is predicated on forcing everyone to buy health insurance. Then it becomes more affordable because the young people who don't have insurance, and who have few claims, will be forced to buy and help pay for the older people who do have claims.

It's the biggest con game and Ponzi scheme ever. Remember, it's called The Affordable Health Care Act. Affordable for everyone, and everyone must buy it.

ATM, people have a choice to buy from a private ins. co, or to buy from state run "exchanges."

It is going to fail because young people will opt to pay the penalty which is much cheaper than insurance premiums. THEN there won't be that imaginary money from the young people or the poor people to support the sick and old.

OTOH, it outlaws charging extra for pre-existing conditions, which will raise costs for insurance companies.

The young people who don't need care are expected to pay for this by buying insurance, but they won't and it will fail.

The unwashed masses who have been fooled into thinking this is good for them, especially the young and healthy and poor of all colors, are in for a shock.

Sounds like you are too.

[NeverSure]

*Deleted post edited out*

Ed, balls and pounds.

The Confederates in the Congress are at it again.

The civil war continues.

"The civil war continues."

Exactly what does that mean? What does this have to do with the Civil War?

[Publicus]

If they shut Washington DC clear down, sent everyone home and then burned it down, it would be fine with me. The people could then keep their money, the states would raise taxes some to provide some of the services, and I wouldn't have this federal government breathing down my neck.

Each state has a National Guard with good military equipment - enough that all 50 of them and 100 million armed Americans could repel any invasion. We don't need the huge military being the world's policeman anyway, and this would stop it. Set up a very small federal military to man the nukes, etc., but make it 1/10th the size it is. ALL we need to do is to be capable of defending our own soil which we can.

As evidence, the mighty US military with all of the tricks up its sleeve hasn't won a war since WWII. The guerillas who fought against the US from N. Korea and 'Nam to Afghanistan have always been able to hold their own. You can't defeat a determined population on its own soil.

So, let's just shut it down, keep our money, and go have a beer. OK, I know that's oversimplified, but I'd truly like to see something in that direction.

The US government is way too big, way too expensive, and totally overbearing at home and worldwide.

Haha, do you realize how this sounds. Breathing down your neck, armed resistance do away with America . . . Hopefully you are already having that beer as this is pretty un-American.

Who cares if the bafoones fight and act like bafoones. Life is good, work your butt off, accomplish your dreams and we all need to stop worrying about everyone else's dysfunction.

Obama is just extremely divisive and I think a lot of this has to do with racial animosity and groups of paranoid good ole boys who think a black dude is just out to get them. Could be a karma thing they are worried about . . ., but . . . Half of these numbskulls have no clue about our health care system or Obamacare, but think is it just a black president taking money from the whites and shifting the wealth to the blacks. All of this hate and deep seeded animosity has to be driven by some deep personal issues and racial tension is the prime suspect here.

Well, I hope you didn't think I advocated armed resistance to do away with America. If you do, read it again.

Obama is divisive due to his policies. He was divisive about Syria, for instance which had nothing to do with his color.

Your dream that this is about race is really skewed. It's about spending wastefully, at which Obama is the best we've ever had. It's also about forcing many people to do what they don't want to do, in a supposedly free country.

The opposition to Obamacare is that some of are convinced it will fail, leaving us with more debt. Don't tell me I don't understand how it works. It isn't free national health care, nor is it universal national health care. It requires everyone to buy insurance or pay a penalty. It's more government intrusion, not an "entitlement."

Neither blacks nor anyone else will gain "free" health care and shift wealth from anyone to anyone. In fact the poor will suffer most, being forced to buy or pay a penalty.

The whole scheme is predicated on forcing everyone to buy health insurance. Then it becomes more affordable because the young people who don't have insurance, and who have few claims, will be forced to buy and help pay for the older people who do have claims.

It's the biggest con game and Ponzi scheme ever. Remember, it's called The Affordable Health Care Act. Affordable for everyone, and everyone must buy it.

ATM, people have a choice to buy from a private ins. co, or to buy from state run "exchanges."

It is going to fail because young people will opt to pay the penalty which is much cheaper than insurance premiums. THEN there won't be that imaginary money from the young people or the poor people to support the sick and old.

OTOH, it outlaws charging extra for pre-existing conditions, which will raise costs for insurance companies.

The young people who don't need care are expected to pay for this by buying insurance, but they won't and it will fail.

The unwashed masses who have been fooled into thinking this is good for them, especially the young and healthy and poor of all colors, are in for a shock.

Sounds like you are too.

You omitted from your post the large volume of scientifically researched market data from various and diverse sources that support your assertions.

Such data does exist?

Or maybe not.

[Scott]

Inflammatory posts and replies deleted.

[NeverSure]

If they shut Washington DC clear down, sent everyone home and then burned it down, it would be fine with me. The people could then keep their money, the states would raise taxes some to provide some of the services, and I wouldn't have this federal government breathing down my neck.

Each state has a National Guard with good military equipment - enough that all 50 of them and 100 million armed Americans could repel any invasion. We don't need the huge military being the world's policeman anyway, and this would stop it. Set up a very small federal military to man the nukes, etc., but make it 1/10th the size it is. ALL we need to do is to be capable of defending our own soil which we can.

As evidence, the mighty US military with all of the tricks up its sleeve hasn't won a war since WWII. The guerillas who fought against the US from N. Korea and 'Nam to Afghanistan have always been able to hold their own. You can't defeat a determined population on its own soil.

So, let's just shut it down, keep our money, and go have a beer. OK, I know that's oversimplified, but I'd truly like to see something in that direction.

The US government is way too big, way too expensive, and totally overbearing at home and worldwide.

Haha, do you realize how this sounds. Breathing down your neck, armed resistance do away with America . . . Hopefully you are already having that beer as this is pretty un-American.

Who cares if the bafoones fight and act like bafoones. Life is good, work your butt off, accomplish your dreams and we all need to stop worrying about everyone else's dysfunction.

Obama is just extremely divisive and I think a lot of this has to do with racial animosity and groups of paranoid good ole boys who think a black dude is just out to get them. Could be a karma thing they are worried about . . ., but . . . Half of these numbskulls have no clue about our health care system or Obamacare, but think is it just a black president taking money from the whites and shifting the wealth to the blacks. All of this hate and deep seeded animosity has to be driven by some deep personal issues and racial tension is the prime suspect here.

Well, I hope you didn't think I advocated armed resistance to do away with America. If you do, read it again.

Obama is divisive due to his policies. He was divisive about Syria, for instance which had nothing to do with his color.

Your dream that this is about race is really skewed. It's about spending wastefully, at which Obama is the best we've ever had. It's also about forcing many people to do what they don't want to do, in a supposedly free country.

The opposition to Obamacare is that some of are convinced it will fail, leaving us with more debt. Don't tell me I don't understand how it works. It isn't free national health care, nor is it universal national health care. It requires everyone to buy insurance or pay a penalty. It's more government intrusion, not an "entitlement."

Neither blacks nor anyone else will gain "free" health care and shift wealth from anyone to anyone. In fact the poor will suffer most, being forced to buy or pay a penalty.

The whole scheme is predicated on forcing everyone to buy health insurance. Then it becomes more affordable because the young people who don't have insurance, and who have few claims, will be forced to buy and help pay for the older people who do have claims.

It's the biggest con game and Ponzi scheme ever. Remember, it's called The Affordable Health Care Act. Affordable for everyone, and everyone must buy it.

ATM, people have a choice to buy from a private ins. co, or to buy from state run "exchanges."

It is going to fail because young people will opt to pay the penalty which is much cheaper than insurance premiums. THEN there won't be that imaginary money from the young people or the poor people to support the sick and old.

OTOH, it outlaws charging extra for pre-existing conditions, which will raise costs for insurance companies.

The young people who don't need care are expected to pay for this by buying insurance, but they won't and it will fail.

The unwashed masses who have been fooled into thinking this is good for them, especially the young and healthy and poor of all colors, are in for a shock.

Sounds like you are too.

You omitted from your post the large volume of scientifically researched market data from various and diverse sources that support your assertions.

Such data does exist?

Or maybe not.

So you drank the Kool-Aid too? I don't understand why people don't research this thing before they get onboard.

Remember Nancy Pelosi, the Speaker of The House saying something like "We have to pass it before you can read it? All 2700 pages or something, not given to the public until after it passed?

Sorry, something is wrong and I can't paste a link. Please paste this.

https://www.google.com/#q=obamacare+buy+or+pay+penalty

[Scott]

Stick to the topic. Nonsensical arguments are going to be deleted.

This is about the gov't shutdown.

[Credo]

None of that matters. It only matters that they don't get affordable health care.

[willyumiii]

Pretty important day:

1 October 2013

GOP shuts down the government of the United States of America

Democrats make affordable health care available to millions of Americans

The GOP has lost the Presidential election ...again

Now they want the entire country to suffer for their loss...again

Maybe this is why they have been losing?

They vowed to stop everything Obama tried to accomplish the day after he was first elected.

They have worked very hard at it but in some cases , like health care, they have failed.

Obamacare is open for business today! 1 October 2013

Now, will the GOP please try to grow up and think about the good of the American people instead of their own political agenda?

I doubt it.

[NeverSure]

None of that matters. It only matters that they don't get health care.

I really wish people would study this issue. The government shutdown is essentially over Obamacare.

Many people are fooled into thinking that Obamacare is national healthcare, Canadian or European style. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

I just posted and explanation of the Republicans' objections, and a google link to back it up.

A lot of people are in for a shock when they find out that this Obamacare is nothing more than a federal mandate that each person buy his own health care. If he doesn't for the whole family, he pays a penalty to the IRS.

He has to prove on each year's tax return that he has health care that meets the government standard, or get hit with a penalty.

The penalty is much less than the insurance and I believe that many people will opt to pay the penalty, remaining uninsured.

Here's that link again. Obamacare doesn't give people health insurance.

The Republicans are right on this one. It needs to be binned and re-addressed as something which will work.

https://www.google.com/#q=obamacare+buy+or+pay+penalty

[isawasnake]

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/09/bill-clinton-when-it-comes-to-obamacare-gop-begging-for-america-to-fail/

[Credo]

Thanks for the explanation. I know that it mandates people buy health insurance.

Everyone should have health insurance.

The gov't pays for health costs in all kinds of ways, including directly for the poor.

[boomerangutang]

None of that matters. It only matters that they don't get health care.

I really wish people would study this issue. The government shutdown is essentially over Obamacare.

Many people are fooled into thinking that Obamacare is national healthcare, Canadian or European style. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

I just posted and explanation of the Republicans' objections, and a google link to back it up.

A lot of people are in for a shock when they find out that this Obamacare is nothing more than a federal mandate that each person buy his own health care. If he doesn't for the whole family, he pays a penalty to the IRS.

He has to prove on each year's tax return that he has health care that meets the government standard, or get hit with a penalty.

The penalty is much less than the insurance and I believe that many people will opt to pay the penalty, remaining uninsured.

Here's that link again. Obamacare doesn't give people health insurance.

The Republicans are right on this one. It needs to be binned and re-addressed as something which will work.

https://www.google.com/#q=obamacare+buy+or+pay+penalty

I don't know details, but I know Republicans want to dis Obama every chance they get. More importantly; Have the Reps proposed any plan which is better? Perhaps they're just in favor of 'every man for himself, and tough tamales for the elderly and sick.' Most Republicans are rich anyway (certainly their politicians are), so buying high-priced insurance or paying out-of-pocket for health care is not tough for them.

[willyumiii]

None of that matters. It only matters that they don't get health care.

I really wish people would study this issue. The government shutdown is essentially over Obamacare.

Many people are fooled into thinking that Obamacare is national healthcare, Canadian or European style. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

I just posted and explanation of the Republicans' objections, and a google link to back it up.

A lot of people are in for a shock when they find out that this Obamacare is nothing more than a federal mandate that each person buy his own health care. If he doesn't for the whole family, he pays a penalty to the IRS.

He has to prove on each year's tax return that he has health care that meets the government standard, or get hit with a penalty.

The penalty is much less than the insurance and I believe that many people will opt to pay the penalty, remaining uninsured.

Here's that link again. Obamacare doesn't give people health insurance.

The Republicans are right on this one. It needs to be binned and re-addressed as something which will work.

https://www.google.com/#q=obamacare+buy+or+pay+penalty

I don't know details, but I know Republicans want to dis Obama every chance they get. More importantly; Have the Reps proposed any plan which is better? Perhaps they're just in favor of 'every man for himself, and tough tamales for the elderly and sick.' Most Republicans are rich anyway (certainly their politicians are), so buying high-priced insurance or paying out-of-pocket for health care is not tough for them.

The rich politicians do not need to pay for healthcare insurance. Their employer, (we the tax payers) pays for their excellent health care coverage. Why should they care ?

[Credo]

Before I was a teenager, I suffered an illness that was considered to be quite serious. I made a full recovery, except that I was never able to get health insurance.

I have spent many, many years with no health coverage in the US. Interestingly enough, I was able to get health insurance in several foreign countries that I worked, but it does not extend to health care in the US.

[midas]

None of that matters. It only matters that they don't get health care.

I really wish people would study this issue. The government shutdown is essentially over Obamacare.

Many people are fooled into thinking that Obamacare is national healthcare, Canadian or European style. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

I just posted and explanation of the Republicans' objections, and a google link to back it up.

A lot of people are in for a shock when they find out that this Obamacare is nothing more than a federal mandate that each person buy his own health care. If he doesn't for the whole family, he pays a penalty to the IRS.

He has to prove on each year's tax return that he has health care that meets the government standard, or get hit with a penalty.

The penalty is much less than the insurance and I believe that many people will opt to pay the penalty, remaining uninsured.

Here's that link again. Obamacare doesn't give people health insurance.

The Republicans are right on this one. It needs to be binned and re-addressed as something which will work.

https://www.google.com/#q=obamacare+buy+or+pay+penalty

It certainly seems complicated.

I may be interpreting it incorrectly but is the reason that Democrats won't agree to give ordinary people the choice to opt out ( as Republicans are asking for ) is that if too many people do that, they won't have the critical mass needed for this scheme to work?

[Berkshire]

It certainly seems complicated.

I may be interpreting it incorrectly but is the reason that Democrats won't agree to give ordinary people the choice to opt out ( as Republicans are asking for ) is that if too many people do that, they won't have the critical mass needed for this scheme to work?

Not exactly. How about take a read of this (from Fox News, no less) to get a better understanding of what ObamaCare is really about:

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/09/30/five-reasons-americans-already-love-obamacare-plus-one-reason-why-theyre-gonna/?intcmp=trending

[NeverSure]

Thanks for the explanation. I know that it mandates people buy health insurance.

Everyone should have health insurance.

The gov't pays for health costs in all kinds of ways, including directly for the poor.

Yes, the government already does this. So why Obamacare?

I really wish people would study this issue. The government shutdown is essentially over Obamacare.

Many people are fooled into thinking that Obamacare is national healthcare, Canadian or European style. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

I just posted and explanation of the Republicans' objections, and a google link to back it up.

A lot of people are in for a shock when they find out that this Obamacare is nothing more than a federal mandate that each person buy his own health care. If he doesn't for the whole family, he pays a penalty to the IRS.

He has to prove on each year's tax return that he has health care that meets the government standard, or get hit with a penalty.

The penalty is much less than the insurance and I believe that many people will opt to pay the penalty, remaining uninsured.

Here's that link again. Obamacare doesn't give people health insurance.

The Republicans are right on this one. It needs to be binned and re-addressed as something which will work.

https://www.google.com/#q=obamacare+buy+or+pay+penalty

I don't know details, but I know Republicans want to dis Obama every chance they get. More importantly; Have the Reps proposed any plan which is better? Perhaps they're just in favor of 'every man for himself, and tough tamales for the elderly and sick.' Most Republicans are rich anyway (certainly their politicians are), so buying high-priced insurance or paying out-of-pocket for health care is not tough for them.

Yes, they have proposed some improvements. Right now health care can't be sold across state lines. Each state has its own insurance commissioner and its own rules. That doesn't change with Obamacare. The Repubs want to change that to increase competition - let all insurance companies sell in all states.

Each state will also manage it's own version of Obamacare with 50 separate exchanges. That isn't efficient at all. The Repubs want to change that, because the Feds will reimburse each state for some of the administrative costs. There's no economy of scale there.

But there are so many problems with Obamacare that it needs to be scrapped and started over with something that really means affordable health care for all Americans.

I don't know details, but I know Republicans want to dis Obama every chance they get. More importantly; Have the Reps proposed any plan which is better? Perhaps they're just in favor of 'every man for himself, and tough tamales for the elderly and sick.' Most Republicans are rich anyway (certainly their politicians are), so buying high-priced insurance or paying out-of-pocket for health care is not tough for them.

On average, Democrat congressmen are much richer than Republicans.

"Yes America, there is a wealth gap. Seven of the top ten wealthiest members in Congress are Democrats.

The results are based on a new study released today by the non-partisan Center for Responsive Politics. The Center did an analysis of the financial statements filed by members of Congress for 2010 income and net worth.

This revelation of extreme wealth by Democratic politicians is completely contrary to the public image of the Democratic Party. President Obama has castigated millionaires and billionaires, suggesting they are evil people, largely Republican or conservative. The issue of the Democratic Party as the millionaire party has not yet made it into the mainstream media."

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2011/11/15/seven-of-the-top-ten-wealthiest-members-of-congress-are-democrats/

The rich politicians do not need to pay for healthcare insurance. Their employer, (we the tax payers) pays for their excellent health care coverage. Why should they care ?"

See above.

[NeverSure]

It certainly seems complicated.

I may be interpreting it incorrectly but is the reason that Democrats won't agree to give ordinary people the choice to opt out ( as Republicans are asking for ) is that if too many people do that, they won't have the critical mass needed for this scheme to work?

Not exactly. How about take a read of this (from Fox News, no less) to get a better understanding of what ObamaCare is really about:

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/09/30/five-reasons-americans-already-love-obamacare-plus-one-reason-why-theyre-gonna/?intcmp=trending

And here's another blip from Fox. Fox, unknown to many people, hires people from both sides of the aisle.

That author above is blind to the consequences.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/on-air/willis-report/blog/2013/09/30/user-s-guide-obamacare

The bulls eye issue here is that Obamacare requires people to buy their own insurance. A lot of people just don't get that yet. They really do somehow think it will give them something.

They are wrong.

[Ulysses G.]

I agree with the Republicans a lot more than Democrats these days, but the Supreme Court found Obamacare constitutional and it is not going to be repealed with Obama in office, no matter what.

(Some) Republicans are wasting a lot of political capital over a fight that they can not win. Krauthammer calls them the Suicide Squad and, as usual, he hits the nail on the head.