Woman killed outside Capitol Hill after trying to ram gate of White House

[Chicog]

I doubt the shooters will be revelling in a job well done.

Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

As a matter of fact they normally do. Their adrenaline is a mile high, they've be forced to drive at 80 mph on narrow city streets scared to death they'll hit an innocent or have a bad crash themselves. They don't know if she has a bomb. This thing lasted a while.

They are very, very happy to put a stop to it for their safety and the public safety.

Good job.

I don't think so.

Job well done for sure, but I doubt there are fist pumps and high fives knowing they've just left a one-year old motherless.

[NeverSure]

The shooters will NOT be happy that they assisted a woman with a one child in the back of her car commit suicide I don't suspect.

Had she been a terrorist or malevolently motivated politically, they would probably feel job well done.

You don't get it. They will be very happy and relieved to have stopped her. There was too much risk that she was going to kill someone including one of them with her car. They will feel a strong sense of job well done because the had them and everyone else in serious danger.

They never want to have to shoot someone. But when they have to and they did, they are very happy that it's over and they know it's a job well done.

Her motivation is irrelevant.

[metisdead]

Off topic derogatory generalizations have been removed. If anybody took the time to see the report on CNN this morning about this, it was mayhem and was handled as well as could be under the circumstances. Don't use this topic as an invitation to bash the USA where it is not needed or called for.

[Longtooth]

OK. I have to put my 2 cents worth in... Imagine, High explosives packed tight up to the bottoms of the window sills. The officers were brave to shoot at close range. It could have leveled everything within a block with a "dead man's switch." There are female "martyrs". I sure wish my spell check would work!

PS I can imagine a huge "flinch" after pulling the trigger on a true shot, waiting for the gigantic, instant fireball explosion that would end the security officer's lives. The stakes are too high to be trying to shoot out tires. It's probably trained protocol to shoot to kill at that point anyway.

Edited October 4, 2013 by Longtooth

[Chicog]

Deleted post edited out

You don't get it. They will be very happy and relieved to have stopped her. There was too much risk that she was going to kill someone including one of them with her car. They will feel a strong sense of job well done because the had them and everyone else in serious danger.

They never want to have to shoot someone. But when they have to and they did, they are very happy that it's over and they know it's a job well done.

Her motivation is irrelevant.

I do get what you think. Rightly or wrongly, I just have a little more faith in people's humanity.

Edited October 4, 2013 by Scott
Deleted post edited out

[SinglePot]

Deleted post edited out

You don't get it. They will be very happy and relieved to have stopped her. There was too much risk that she was going to kill someone including one of them with her car. They will feel a strong sense of job well done because the had them and everyone else in serious danger.

They never want to have to shoot someone. But when they have to and they did, they are very happy that it's over and they know it's a job well done.

Her motivation is irrelevant.

I do get what you think. Rightly or wrongly, I just have a little more faith in people's humanity.

Me too.

+1

[Longtooth]

Deleted post edited out

You don't get it. They will be very happy and relieved to have stopped her. There was too much risk that she was going to kill someone including one of them with her car. They will feel a strong sense of job well done because the had them and everyone else in serious danger.

They never want to have to shoot someone. But when they have to and they did, they are very happy that it's over and they know it's a job well done.

Her motivation is irrelevant.

I do get what you think. Rightly or wrongly, I just have a little more faith in people's humanity.

There are many, many homo sapiens in the world with zero humanity.

[HAL9000]

Repeatedly rammed? That's not what the video looked like:

[NeverSure]

Deleted post edited out

You don't get it. They will be very happy and relieved to have stopped her. There was too much risk that she was going to kill someone including one of them with her car. They will feel a strong sense of job well done because the had them and everyone else in serious danger.

They never want to have to shoot someone. But when they have to and they did, they are very happy that it's over and they know it's a job well done.

Her motivation is irrelevant.

I do get what you think. Rightly or wrongly, I just have a little more faith in people's humanity.

Faith in people's humanity? Did you see the high speed chase where she was doing abrupt U-turns on city streets and aiming right back at police cars? Did you see the police have to try to avoid her, two of them getting hit and I saw one officer being put into an ambulance on a stretcher?

120 kph on narrow city streets, actually aiming the car at other cars swerving and driving like a lunatic? Did you see her trying to murder people with her car? Did you see the high speed, the erratic driving and the mayhem?

Did you consider innocent drivers or pedestrians right there as she went past at high speed?

Where, exactly, was her "humanity?" Is your idea of "humanity" letting her ram things until she kills someone?

Wow.

[transam]

Man the state of mind is USA sick sick sick .... kill kill kill ..

So if the bird was trying to run you down we must all stand back and do nothing ?

A young unarmed soldier in the UK had his head hacked off cos no armed police available, when the armed police arrived they shot the murderers, but, to late for the soldier.

[Steely Dan]

"No nexus to terrorism", as stated in the O.P. I see the 'T' word was used nevertheless in the case of this unarmed, but tragically disturbed woman, whereas the 'T' seems to elude the MSM in some cases of multiple murder using guns and bombs.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed. This was not a gun related crime, it was vehicular assault, although police using firearms were used to put a stop to it. Stop trying to twist the topic into firearm related crimes.

[transam]

One must remember that for sure the guards did not know if it were a car suicide bomber or not, and so the actions of the driver would most certainly lead to be taken out.

[Chicog]

Faith in people's humanity? Did you see the high speed chase where she was doing abrupt U-turns on city streets and aiming right back at police cars? Did you see the police have to try to avoid her, two of them getting hit and I saw one officer being put into an ambulance on a stretcher?

120 kph on narrow city streets, actually aiming the car at other cars swerving and driving like a lunatic? Did you see her trying to murder people with her car? Did you see the high speed, the erratic driving and the mayhem?

Did you consider innocent drivers or pedestrians right there as she went past at high speed?

Where, exactly, was her "humanity?" Is your idea of "humanity" letting her ram things until she kills someone?

Wow.

I have no idea what you are on about. She was obviously, sadly, a very disturbed individual, and at no point have I criticised the actions of law enforcement.

[NomadJoe]

[biplanebluey]

Well of course there were alternatives but the US does not spend all that money training killers to go have them shoot out a few tires!

Try shooting out the tyres on a moving vehicle...

Try shooting the driver in a fast moving car !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There's four tyres------------- one driver------------- dozens of trained sharp shooters

Edited October 4, 2013 by biplanebluey

[folium]

Well of course there were alternatives but the US does not spend all that money training killers to go have them shoot out a few tires!

Try shooting out the tyres on a moving vehicle...

Oh come on, it's so easy when you are playing Call Of Duty Black Ops Sad Xxxx.......

Edited October 4, 2013 by metisdead
Profanity

[SinglePot]

Well of course there were alternatives but the US does not spend all that money training killers to go have them shoot out a few tires!

Try shooting out the tyres on a moving vehicle...

Try shooting the driver in a fast moving car !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There's four tyres------------- one driver------------- dozens of trained sharp shooters

Immobilise the car...then what do you do?

Engage in conversation with the driver? Explosives in the car or strapped to her? One button. Adios.

Job well done.

Doubt if the guys will be celebrating too much though knowing now that she was a disturbed mother and not Al Queada.

Had she been the latter, I personally would offer them a beer.

Job well done. Very sad for the woman.

[NeverSure]

Try shooting the driver in a fast moving car !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There's four tyres------------- one driver------------- dozens of trained sharp shooters

Well of course there were alternatives but the US does not spend all that money training killers to go have them shoot out a few tires!

Try shooting out the tyres on a moving vehicle...

Oh come on, it's so easy when you are playing Call Of Duty Black Ops Sad Xxxx.......

It's seen in the second video above that they had her stopped and didn't shoot. They were surrounding the car at great risk not knowing if there might be a bomb. They gave her every chance.

Then she suddenly backed up, ramming a police car and then took off again at high speed. She could have crushed an officer right there.

I saw video on TV of them putting an injured police officer in an ambulance. They had him strapped to a stretcher but I don't know how he was injured.

So when they again chased her at high speed after getting her stopped once and getting a car rammed and then again stopped her, they shot her. She was using her car as a lethal weapon against even innocent bystanders not to mention police. The police didn't know what they were dealing with but they had to stop her. And they did.

PS You don't shoot the tires on a fast moving vehicle in a crowded neighborhood. You have no chance to be sure of your backstop and the bullet might wind up killing an innocent. The bullet of course is going right through the tire and continuing on its course, which may include a ricochet into any direction.

Edited October 4, 2013 by metisdead

[SinglePot]

Sir. Yes Sir.

[uptheos]

OK. I have to put my 2 cents worth in... Imagine, High explosives packed tight up to the bottoms of the window sills. The officers were brave to shoot at close range. It could have leveled everything within a block with a "dead man's switch." There are female "martyrs". I sure wish my spell check would work!

PS I can imagine a huge "flinch" after pulling the trigger on a true shot, waiting for the gigantic, instant fireball explosion that would end the security officer's lives. The stakes are too high to be trying to shoot out tires. It's probably trained protocol to shoot to kill at that point anyway.

I think this is the bottom line.

Edited October 4, 2013 by metisdead
30) Do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes, added emoticons, or altered wording.

[folium]

The stakes are too high to be trying to shoot out tires. It's probably trained protocol to shoot to kill at that point anyway.

If you are going to use your weapon of course you are going to shoot to kill...

It's only in the movies and games that you would even dream of "shooting to wound". If you need to use your weapon, you use it for what it is designed to do.

[SinglePot]

The stakes are too high to be trying to shoot out tires. It's probably trained protocol to shoot to kill at that point anyway.

If you are going to use your weapon of course you are going to shoot to kill...

It's only in the movies and games that you would even dream of "shooting to wound". If you need to use your weapon, you use it for what it is designed to do.

Better check with Captain NeverSure. I'm not military.

[Publicus]

Well of course there were alternatives but the US does not spend all that money training killers to go have them shoot out a few tires!

Try shooting out the tyres on a moving vehicle...

As has been pointed out, had this happened in the burbs half way across the country, the outcome likely would have been different.

And what, just two weeks ago Washington DC had a mass murder incident.

Time, place, circumstance are central to the law and to law enforcement.

[MAJIC]

It's a no win situation,had they tried to capture the women without shooting to kill,and if later it was found her vehicle was carrying explosives,then there would have been an enquiry,as to why they didn't shoot to kill. The fact is unfortunately 9/11 ended all mercy for those that are a threat to the USA,in whatever form!

Edited October 4, 2013 by MAJIC

[NeverSure]

It's a no win situation,had they tried to capture the women without shooting to kill,and if later it was found her vehicle was carrying explosives,then there would have been an enquiry,as to why they didn't shoot to kill. The fact is unfortunately 9/11 ended all mercy for those that are a threat to the USA,in whatever form!

There is some truth in the idea that recent bombings including 9/11 have made everyone more wary.

But I believe that even before 9/11 they would have shot her. Used that way, the car by itself is considered a deadly weapon. They had already stopped her and surrounded her and she suddenly backed up hitting a police car and took off. That is seen in the last video posted above. On TV I also saw them putting an injured policeman in an ambulance after securing him on a stretcher. I still don't know how he was injured.

But in the US you (meaning even a private citizen) shoot to kill anyone who is presenting a danger of serious bodily injury or death to anyone, even to a stranger.

This woman had certainly crossed that line and wouldn't stop. I don't think she left them any choice in protecting themselves and the public.

[NeverSure]

The stakes are too high to be trying to shoot out tires. It's probably trained protocol to shoot to kill at that point anyway.

If you are going to use your weapon of course you are going to shoot to kill...

It's only in the movies and games that you would even dream of "shooting to wound". If you need to use your weapon, you use it for what it is designed to do.

Better check with Captain NeverSure. I'm not military.

This is completely true. You don't shoot at all unless you need to prevent someone from causing serious bodily injury or death. Shooting to wound is a fairy tale because the target is too small and even if you hit it you aren't assured of an immediate stop. You shoot at what's called "center of mass" which is the center of the chest. It's the biggest target with the most vital organs and a massive shock to it will usually immediately immobilize someone. Police are also trained to double or triple tap, mean place two or three bullets there.

Once you decide to shoot, your concern is for yourself and others around you, and stopping the perp instantly is the only goal.

[Publicus]

It's a no win situation,had they tried to capture the women without shooting to kill,and if later it was found her vehicle was carrying explosives,then there would have been an enquiry,as to why they didn't shoot to kill. The fact is unfortunately 9/11 ended all mercy for those that are a threat to the USA,in whatever form!

Another factor complicating this unfortunate fatality is that the suspect was behaving in these bizarre and aggressive ways, at the White House and then at the Capitol Building, during an unusual and strange time in Washington, ie., the government shutdown in connection with Obamacare.

The shutdown tension and eeriness present at the time of the life threatening incident by the suspect already had heightened everyone's senses. People were out of their jobs and workplaces. Monuments and memorials were closed or, in the case of the WW II Memorial, experiencing high visibility controversy. The Capitol Police were required to be on the job despite their not being paid - I'm sure this didn't create a mood of hostility or vengeance among them, but the Capitol Police too were feeling the eeriness.

I thought the Capitol Police were patient not to shoot when the car was jammed against the posts, as we can see in the video. But I also think the Capitol Police may have missed an opportunity by not shooting out the tires while the car was in a stationary position right in front of them at the time.

That said, what did happen happened and is now being examined, investigated.

[Scott]

A reply to a deleted post and a troll post have been removed.

[NeverSure]

It's a no win situation,had they tried to capture the women without shooting to kill,and if later it was found her vehicle was carrying explosives,then there would have been an enquiry,as to why they didn't shoot to kill. The fact is unfortunately 9/11 ended all mercy for those that are a threat to the USA,in whatever form!

Another factor complicating this unfortunate fatality is that the suspect was behaving in these bizarre and aggressive ways, at the White House and then at the Capitol Building, during an unusual and strange time in Washington, ie., the government shutdown in connection with Obamacare.

The shutdown tension and eeriness present at the time of the life threatening incident by the suspect already had heightened everyone's senses. People were out of their jobs and workplaces. Monuments and memorials were closed or, in the case of the WW II Memorial, experiencing high visibility controversy. The Capitol Police were required to be on the job despite their not being paid - I'm sure this didn't create a mood of hostility or vengeance among them, but the Capitol Police too were feeling the eeriness.

I thought the Capitol Police were patient not to shoot when the car was jammed against the posts, as we can see in the video. But I also think the Capitol Police may have missed an opportunity by not shooting out the tires while the car was in a stationary position right in front of them at the time.

That said, what did happen happened and is now being examined, investigated.

I really admired the attempt to take her when she was jammed up and stopped. Surrounding a car that might have a bomb just to give the perp a chance to surrender took some guts and some humanity.

I disagree that they ever should have shot the tires. The bullet would pass right through the tires and ricochet up from the pavement out of control and endangering everything in sight. There is no way to control the direction or the backstop that way. The whole idea is to protect those including other police or bystanders in the vicinity.

Again I really admire them for surrounding that car the first time with guns drawn, giving her one more chance at the risk of their own lives.

The second time they cornered her, they were out of choices.