So my brand new isuzu d-max top model was smashed into by a drunk driver yesterday

[Moouan]

Assuming that the repair process will be lengthy, what, if any, provision is there for you to get a replacement vehicle while the repairs are being carried out? I would be unable to work without a vehicle, who would be liable for hire charges?

[salapau]

I read all that's been advised. Same happened to my Hilux 18 months ago . Damaged panels were replaced and generally the job was average. Had to complain that the side runners were replaced with non-genuine ones, to no avail. Go my mechanic to tighten up and refit some of the panel fixings. Be prepared for a long wait to get your motor back, you have to keep on the caes and chase the repairer.

[stevenl]

Assuming that the repair process will be lengthy, what, if any, provision is there for you to get a replacement vehicle while the repairs are being carried out? I would be unable to work without a vehicle, who would be liable for hire charges?

With 1 or 2 exceptions not covered by any form of insurance in Thailand. And if covered only for a few days. So most of the time you'll have to make the guilty party pay this, if required with police assistance. And that won't be easy.

Edited October 7, 2013 by stevenl

[Cuban]

Thai labor is cheap as are parts so the repair will be good, although a crashed car will always be a crashed car, depending on the damage this will show up in future years and will affect your ability to get the right price for it's year and mileage when you want to sell it.

I buyer cares not who caused the crash just that it was crashed. So with this in mind if you seek to minimise your loss you have to make the insurance company pay for ALL damage - you must make a list of the damage to the car. In a written list and photographs that becomes the list of things to get repaired.

The insurance company will want just enough done so that you (is it you or girlfriend that the insurance company are dealing with?) agree the car is repaired. Expect the insurance company to pressure your girlfriend that the repairs are done when there will be things that you still want fixed also explain to your girlfriend that she is never to make a verbal or written agreement about anything to do with this crash unless you first approve it - I assure you there will be some element that tries to get her to agree to close the case without getting you involved at some point. This will be the the benefit of the police, the drunk-driver the car repair company or insurance company - but you and your relationship with your girlfriend will be the looser in the whole equation. Explain this to her if she is not savvy to the ways a Thai will apply pressure on another Thai in a situation where a farang is involved and often seen as self-insured because we have too much money.

Doors, having a door re-skinned and painted is easy, if the frame is bent they may try to un-bend it as this is cheap, but the windows will not open/close as well and the window motors can fail due to friction and misalignment. Also the line of the door's rubber seal can be affected, so you might get a door that looks nice but is not water proof any more - so test with a jet wash or go through water!

The good news is that the D-Max is build on a strong ladder frame, but if you have had such a hard side impact I would want a guarantee from the insurance company that the complete drive-train from engine to gearbox and transfer box and to each drive axle that the power transfer is good, there is no misalignment (crabbing) and that all long drive-shafts are not bend in any way - this can only be checked with a vibration sensor test - or you knowing the feel of a car, road test progressively at different speed on a good long open road without some mouth in the car saying "...it's OK now?"

The whole drive train can be a pig to fix and an expensive one - this is where I would focus most of my concern.

Likewise from the crash you describe I would want all four wheels and axle hubs checked for alignment and every geometric measure of toe-in, camber and even the wheel balance again a road test is wise. ENSURE that during repair this is done otherwise it will be ignored and you may find that the side crash has sheared off a wheel bolt that has not bee checked because no one bothered to even take the wheels off to look.

The chassis ladder frame is probably good - but you need to look under the car - a hoist or inspection pit is wise. If using a pit - check for snakes first - this is Thailand !!! Exhaust and muffler mounting good?

Look at the doors, windows, tail-gate to see everything closes correctly even on the undamaged side of the car, the common failure to check a sun-roof when a car has a corner knock means that they only discover that the roof has been twisted when it rains - don't sure if the D-Max has a roof option but test with a hose of water when you do the doors.

Electrics - all lights good? CD changer working etc?

The devil is in the detail they say!

So you need to have some pictures of all the fancy trim and detailing on your type of car - the wheel arch plastic cover and door lines etc. First make sure they are there and in the case of wheel arches that the trim is not being used to cover damaged metal work underneath not repaired. - likewise inside the wheel arch I think is a plastic liner - if that is damaged they might simply remove it or from all four arches to save having to get a replacement part - easier and cheaper to take away that fix correctly.

When I had a car repaired and repainted I went over the car with a marker (like a clay pencil marker) to indicate areas to be painted - then photographed those spaces while the guy from the repair company was there in the photographs - there is no way to deny knowing about the repair points then.

As for main-car dealer insurance, yes they will always only allow their approved repair shops to be used - they is a cost control measure as will be the insurance company attempt to do as little work as they can.

Will they cover you out of pocket expenses - replacement car ?

Will they recover costs from the drunk-driver?

The police will do little unless a case is raised against him - you might have to do this, or rather your girlfriend might have to do this because she was the driver? A private claim for money to cover costs, this is where people will ask her to sign away any claim !

If it's not coming out of the drink-driver's beer fund - it is coming out of your pocket.

A conversation to have with your girlfriend.

Det aller beste av Lykke til min venn.

[oneday]

I crunched my Honda City about seven years ago and it was repaired at the insurance company repairers. At the time they seemed to have done a good quick job but now their respray work is going rusty. Not so bad I suppose after seven years and considering that it has been subjected to floods from time to time. On reflection, a pretty good job.

Not bad indeed. My factory paint job from when my truck was new in America started going bad after 7 years or earlier. One thing I'm doing with my car here in Thailand is keeping it covered with a car cover. Nothing will eat away a paint job more quickly and aggressively than the sun.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Mick

Our insurance company sent our van to this outfit 18 months ago after a decent smash up. They did a good job altho busy, took 2+ months.

They're just off the ring road east side of Khon Kaen. Ask around, reckon someone will know them.

Our insurance was also 1st class, with MSIG.

Mac

[circusman]

One reason I only buy second hand cars in Thailand. I could not bear to see a new one smashed up.

[technologybytes]

<snip>

3/ If you are not happy, sell the vehicle and buy a new one. It won't be worth any less because of the repair!

<snip>

It will be worth less because of the repair.

Not if it's repaired properly, There is no vcar register in Thailand.

[umbanda]

Not much help to you now, but I've had similar problems in the past. 1st class insurance to you, may not mean the same to Thai insurance companies. You must insist that in the event of an insured peril, the car can be repaired by a manufacturer's approved repairer, rather than an Insurance company's approved repairer - there can be a huge difference! And you'll find there is little or no difference to the price of the policy! Makes you wonder, right?

Please. I got a new Honda and got insurance included. Some people say that if I had an accident the insurance company will pay 100% of the cost of the repair, other people said that they will pay only 80%. What is true? I will appreciate your advise. Thank you.

[slipperylobster]

Sounds like a nightmare for an owner of a new car....especially us farangs. Makes me want to buy an inexpensive, older model.... because, after a bad accident, things never really are right on a new car.

[hawksway]

Surprisingly, auto repairs in Thailand are usually of a high standard and it's normal practice for the work to be carried out by the Insurance Company's Authorised Repairers. Being an authorised repairer means that that Insurer has considerable leverage in the event of unsatisfactory quality of repair. You seem also to have chosen a good company to insure with so have no worry.

[umbanda]

Not much help to you now, but I've had similar problems in the past. 1st class insurance to you, may not mean the same to Thai insurance companies. You must insist that in the event of an insured peril, the car can be repaired by a manufacturer's approved repairer, rather than an Insurance company's approved repairer - there can be a huge difference! And you'll find there is little or no difference to the price of the policy! Makes you wonder, right?

Please. I got a new Honda and got insurance included. Some people say that if I had an accident the insurance company will pay 100% of the cost of the repair, other people said that they will pay only 80%. I will appreciate your advise. And what happens if my car is stolen? I will get a replacement? Some people said to me that the insurance company will pay only the bank loan...and I used 30% down. What is true? Thank you.

[robblok]

Not much help to you now, but I've had similar problems in the past. 1st class insurance to you, may not mean the same to Thai insurance companies. You must insist that in the event of an insured peril, the car can be repaired by a manufacturer's approved repairer, rather than an Insurance company's approved repairer - there can be a huge difference! And you'll find there is little or no difference to the price of the policy! Makes you wonder, right?

Please. I got a new Honda and got insurance included. Some people say that if I had an accident the insurance company will pay 100% of the cost of the repair, other people said that they will pay only 80%. What is true? I will appreciate your advise. Thank you.

They will not pay more as the insured value of the car that year. That is usually 80% the first year so if the damage is larger as what you get when the car is stolen.

[stevenl]

Not much help to you now, but I've had similar problems in the past. 1st class insurance to you, may not mean the same to Thai insurance companies. You must insist that in the event of an insured peril, the car can be repaired by a manufacturer's approved repairer, rather than an Insurance company's approved repairer - there can be a huge difference! And you'll find there is little or no difference to the price of the policy! Makes you wonder, right?

Please. I got a new Honda and got insurance included. Some people say that if I had an accident the insurance company will pay 100% of the cost of the repair, other people said that they will pay only 80%. What is true? I will appreciate your advise. Thank you.

They will pay 100% of the repair to a maximum. That maximum is the insured value, quite often 80% of the car purchase price. Check your policy for the insured value.

[stevenl]

<snip>

3/ If you are not happy, sell the vehicle and buy a new one. It won't be worth any less because of the repair!

<snip>

It will be worth less because of the repair.

Not if it's repaired properly, There is no vcar register in Thailand.

Doesn't really matter, an expert will see there has been an accident. And the question if there was an accident is always asked, the truth will automatically reduce the value.

[Mick Wood]

Thai labor is cheap as are parts so the repair will be good, although a crashed car will always be a crashed car, depending on the damage this will show up in future years and will affect your ability to get the right price for it's year and mileage when you want to sell it.

I buyer cares not who caused the crash just that it was crashed. So with this in mind if you seek to minimise your loss you have to make the insurance company pay for ALL damage - you must make a list of the damage to the car. In a written list and photographs that becomes the list of things to get repaired.

The insurance company will want just enough done so that you (is it you or girlfriend that the insurance company are dealing with?) agree the car is repaired. Expect the insurance company to pressure your girlfriend that the repairs are done when there will be things that you still want fixed also explain to your girlfriend that she is never to make a verbal or written agreement about anything to do with this crash unless you first approve it - I assure you there will be some element that tries to get her to agree to close the case without getting you involved at some point. This will be the the benefit of the police, the drunk-driver the car repair company or insurance company - but you and your relationship with your girlfriend will be the looser in the whole equation. Explain this to her if she is not savvy to the ways a Thai will apply pressure on another Thai in a situation where a farang is involved and often seen as self-insured because we have too much money.

Doors, having a door re-skinned and painted is easy, if the frame is bent they may try to un-bend it as this is cheap, but the windows will not open/close as well and the window motors can fail due to friction and misalignment. Also the line of the door's rubber seal can be affected, so you might get a door that looks nice but is not water proof any more - so test with a jet wash or go through water!

The good news is that the D-Max is build on a strong ladder frame, but if you have had such a hard side impact I would want a guarantee from the insurance company that the complete drive-train from engine to gearbox and transfer box and to each drive axle that the power transfer is good, there is no misalignment (crabbing) and that all long drive-shafts are not bend in any way - this can only be checked with a vibration sensor test - or you knowing the feel of a car, road test progressively at different speed on a good long open road without some mouth in the car saying "...it's OK now?"

The whole drive train can be a pig to fix and an expensive one - this is where I would focus most of my concern.

Likewise from the crash you describe I would want all four wheels and axle hubs checked for alignment and every geometric measure of toe-in, camber and even the wheel balance again a road test is wise. ENSURE that during repair this is done otherwise it will be ignored and you may find that the side crash has sheared off a wheel bolt that has not bee checked because no one bothered to even take the wheels off to look.

The chassis ladder frame is probably good - but you need to look under the car - a hoist or inspection pit is wise. If using a pit - check for snakes first - this is Thailand !!! Exhaust and muffler mounting good?

Look at the doors, windows, tail-gate to see everything closes correctly even on the undamaged side of the car, the common failure to check a sun-roof when a car has a corner knock means that they only discover that the roof has been twisted when it rains - don't sure if the D-Max has a roof option but test with a hose of water when you do the doors.

Electrics - all lights good? CD changer working etc?

The devil is in the detail they say!

So you need to have some pictures of all the fancy trim and detailing on your type of car - the wheel arch plastic cover and door lines etc. First make sure they are there and in the case of wheel arches that the trim is not being used to cover damaged metal work underneath not repaired. - likewise inside the wheel arch I think is a plastic liner - if that is damaged they might simply remove it or from all four arches to save having to get a replacement part - easier and cheaper to take away that fix correctly.

When I had a car repaired and repainted I went over the car with a marker (like a clay pencil marker) to indicate areas to be painted - then photographed those spaces while the guy from the repair company was there in the photographs - there is no way to deny knowing about the repair points then.

As for main-car dealer insurance, yes they will always only allow their approved repair shops to be used - they is a cost control measure as will be the insurance company attempt to do as little work as they can.

Will they cover you out of pocket expenses - replacement car ?

Will they recover costs from the drunk-driver?

The police will do little unless a case is raised against him - you might have to do this, or rather your girlfriend might have to do this because she was the driver? A private claim for money to cover costs, this is where people will ask her to sign away any claim !

If it's not coming out of the drink-driver's beer fund - it is coming out of your pocket.

A conversation to have with your girlfriend.

Det aller beste av Lykke til min venn.

Priceless infos right there, i'll make a check list based on this.

Regarding the guilty part covering expenses, He offered 10k baht the same day it happened. We said we need to know how long we will be without a car before any such compensation can be settled. But i foresee no easy task in getting anything more than he offered.

Thanks anlot for great info and advise !

Mick

Our insurance company sent our van to this outfit 18 months ago after a decent smash up. They did a good job altho busy, took 2+ months.

They're just off the ring road east side of Khon Kaen. Ask around, reckon someone will know them.

Our insurance was also 1st class, with MSIG.

Mac

Thanks, i'll definately keep this shop in mind.

Sounds like a nightmare for an owner of a new car....especially us farangs. Makes me want to buy an inexpensive, older model.... because, after a bad accident, things never really are right on a new car.

Main difference from buying a new car here than back home is that you have to be very aware of how your insurance arrangement is structured. Next time i will visit the insurance companys workshop and check their standards before i settle with a company.

As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, its not a question IF your truck gets bumped/smashed in Thailand, its a question about when.

The Insurance arrangement can make or break any car purchase in any country, but especially in Thailand.

Edited October 7, 2013 by Mick Wood

[KRaymond]

Even if it was possible to make the drunk buy you a new car, I doubt he doesn't have the money to do so.

[jingjoke]

For all you used-car aficionados, take a few trips to any of countless Thai auto repair shops near you before picking out that stunner from the auto sales tent.

You will see totaled, I mean totally smashed, vehicles that anyone would say were non-repairable and total write-offs. Take some photos and return regularly to see the progress.

Upon completion it is almost impossible for the naked eye to identify the repaired vehicle with the total write-off.

The Thais have auto body repair down to an art!

[Commander Tamson]

Not much help to you now, but I've had similar problems in the past. 1st class insurance to you, may not mean the same to Thai insurance companies. You must insist that in the event of an insured peril, the car can be repaired by a manufacturer's approved repairer, rather than an Insurance company's approved repairer - there can be a huge difference! And you'll find there is little or no difference to the price of the policy! Makes you wonder, right?

Please. I got a new Honda and got insurance included. Some people say that if I had an accident the insurance company will pay 100% of the cost of the repair, other people said that they will pay only 80%. What is true? I will appreciate your advise. Thank you.

I've never heard of an excess being applied to a Thai car insurance policy and that's the only reason I can think of, as to why they would only pay 80% of any repair cost. You may be confusing the issue with what the policy pays if the car is a total write-off - no insurance company that I know of, worldwide, will pay you what you paid for the car (new or used)?

[Commander Tamson]

Even if it was possible to make the drunk buy you a new car, I doubt he doesn't have the money to do so.

Double negative in there Homer -

[Cuban]

Not if it's repaired properly, There is no vcar register in Thailand.

No register but buyers have eyes, the wise ones use brains.

For all you used-car aficionados, take a few trips to any of countless Thai auto repair shops near you before picking out that stunner from the auto sales tent.

Upon completion it is almost impossible for the naked eye to identify the repaired vehicle with the total write-off.

The Thais have auto body repair down to an art!

Yes Thai labor is cheap and can be good at carrying out repairs, however, they fail to pay attention to detail and as mentioned in one of the above posts where they use substitute parts or simply omit to replace items of plastic trim etc and just fill and cover with paint.

Looking at the line of the body, panel fitting and spacing. Then over-spray, color mismatch and areas that no one bothers to look at: inside wheel arches, under-body and inside panels (doors & trunk).

[Mick Wood]

Update today.

The workshop near Yang Talat wich i visited and was impressed with yesterday, was turned down by my insurance company because they failed to provide necessary legal documents and government approvals, due to they just opened up for business.

However the Insurance company agreed to let Honda take the car to their workshop for assessing the the extent of the damage and report back to the insurance company a rate and plan for repairing the damage.

The towtruck came for the car just now, and after loding the pickup on the towtruck, it was easy to inspect the ladderframe, the drivetrain the powertransmissions the gearbox etc.

Its had a massive smash. The springs are knocked out of position, the powertransfer is bent, the rear wheels are so out of allignment, the tow truck driver had problems loading the car straight.

Later im off to Honda to witness the damage asessment, and make sure they cover every small bit of damage.

Im somewhat positively suprised that the Insurance company are cooperating so well on this. After all Honda was not initially on their list of approved workshops, but was Isuzus recommended choice.

There are still several steps to go before the insurance company agrees to let Honda take the job though.

I also want to emphasize that Isuzu has been nothing but professional and coopertive all along this incident, and went out of their way to help and assist.

[Cuban]

I'm sure I am not alone in hoping to hear how this turns out.

Good luck.

[Mick Wood]

The damage assessment will be ready ithis monday, They want to x-ray the frame an structure steel. Good timing, as thats about the time i'll get back from a small visa run and a pit-stop in Patts.

Today we also settled a deal with the drunk-driver.He agreed to fund a night out in Patts this weekend, for 10k.

Joke aside, i doubt any further legal proceedings would be worth it.

So on moday i'll know the cost of the repair hopefully. Next step is to see if my insurance company agrees to let honda take the job, even they are not one of the companys cooperating workshops.

The Insurance company representative made it clear that if the repair job would cost more than Honda estimated on beforehand, they would not cover it. That is the only difference and extra risk i take by letting Honda do the job instead of the small workshop the insurance company appointed. Hence the importance of an accurate estimate here.

I also have a weaker case if I am unhappy with the repair job, so i have still not decided wich shop to chose. Pros and cons.

[Spoonman]

Got any pics of the damage you can put up ?

[jbrain]

The damage assessment will be ready ithis monday, They want to x-ray the frame an structure steel. Good timing, as thats about the time i'll get back from a small visa run and a pit-stop in Patts.

Today we also settled a deal with the drunk-driver.He agreed to fund a night out in Patts this weekend, for 10k.

Joke aside, i doubt any further legal proceedings would be worth it.

So on moday i'll know the cost of the repair hopefully. Next step is to see if my insurance company agrees to let honda take the job, even they are not one of the companys cooperating workshops.

The Insurance company representative made it clear that if the repair job would cost more than Honda estimated on beforehand, they would not cover it. That is the only difference and extra risk i take by letting Honda do the job instead of the small workshop the insurance company appointed. Hence the importance of an accurate estimate here.

I also have a weaker case if I am unhappy with the repair job, so i have still not decided wich shop to chose. Pros and cons.

Why would you prefer that your isuzu is repaired by a Honda dealer.

[Mick Wood]

Here is a pic taken just after the accident. Notice the rear axle position.

And to Jbrain:

Isuzu dont have a workshop area, their preferred one is the Honda workshop wich has the most facilitated workshop in town, with a skilled and professional crew.

[Cuban]

Find out if they intend to re-skin the doors or just pull out and fill/sand/paint. This will be a cost point but...

...any good paint shop will be able to do this - so cosmetic and the least critical. (also often sub-contracted to third party paint-shop by a garage who will do mechanics)

Get the repair done at the best place to do the ladder frame and alignment even if you must travel to inspect the repairs at a dealer or specialist shop that has the tools and experience to do this work.

No point getting any repair done local or regional if the result is a car that is "repaired" as far as the insurance company are concerned (because the garage say it's fixed) but vibrates or crabs along the road because the frame is not 100% correctly aligned. Apart from the vibrations at certain speeds because of resonant frequencies this will also cause bad wear patterns on the tires and affect braking and any ABS fitted to the car. You will never want to drive it - and you will not trust it.

[Pib]

Insurance policies can be either Dealer repair or Contract repair. When Dealer repair you can have it repaired at your dealership; if contract repair that means it gets repaired at shops under contract with the insurance company. This would be reflected on your policy sheet statements. However, after a vehicle is 5 year old, insurance companies don't offer Dealer repair coverage; it shifts to contract repair only. So, you might want to confirm whether your insurance covers Dealer or Contract repair...the insurance company will try to steer you towards one of their contract repair shops even if you have Dealer repair coverage but you can have your vehicle repaired at the dealer if the coverage provides that. Happened to me a couple years ago when I needed a broken door window replaced...my insurance company (LMG) tried to send me to one of their Contract repair shops...I said I have Dealer repair coverage...got my insurane broker involved who straightened out the insurance company and it was repaired at my dealership. My 2009 Fortuner (actually reflects 2008 on the car blue book since it was bought in Oct 2008) insurance was dealer repair for the first 5 years, I just renewed my insurance and that is when I found out only contract repair is now available and even some of the medical coverage amounts take a healthy drop...my broker even gave me three more quotes from other companies just to show me how coverage changes once the vehicle is more than 5 years old...guess the vehicle is consider less safe once it gets so old and don't rate Dealer repair anymore....appears to be the norm for Thai insurance.

My car is older than 5 years and I'm insure at AXA, still have Dealer repair... but AXA is not Thai company...

Cosmont,

Just saw your response a couple hours ago and it pushed me into asking/emailing my insurance broker about AXA providing dealer repair for cars over 5 years old. Got a quick response from my broker who said AXA does indeed offer dealer garage for more than 5 years old vehicles "for certain brands"...the dealer gave one example of brand: Mercedes. To me that implies it's probably limited to the more pricey brands...but maybe not...do you have what might be considered a pricey brand like Mercedes, BMW, etc., in comparison to a Toyota Fortuner like I have? Of course if you ask me all brands are pricey in Thailand compared to what I was use to paying in the U.S.

I'm with LMG (Liberty Mutual Group) which has its headquarters in the U.S., but I'm sure it has to operate under Thai Insurance Laws just like AXA has to in Thailand...not to imply the 5 year old thing is a law...I'm sure it's just a rule of thumb most Thai insurance companies follow....expect such a policy increases their profits through lower accident payouts. Where I mentioned in my other my broker has also given me three other quotes from other insurance companies, those companies were from Alliancz, MSIG, and MuangThai, but their premiums were all higher than LMG...but I've been with LMG for about 4 years now so I'm getting a good discount from them since I've been with them for a while.

Thanks for identifying dealer insurance is indeed available from AXA....and if my broker is right is available for certain makes of vehicles like Mercedes. Note: I almost bought home insurance a couple of years ago and based on at least a half dozen quotes form various companies AXA and LMG came out on top in my evaluation in terms of coverage and premium price.

Pib

[Spoonman]

The chassis has been diagnosed as being bent with just that small scrape ?

I was expecting to see the side of it crumbled in.