Boxer Dogs in Thailand

[Mangosteen1]

Ive always loved these dogs. "they are angels in a gangsters body" Ive heard that there are many in Thailand. not as many as Pit-bulls, Rotweilers, and German Shepard's but still they exist. I want to get one from a "Certified Breeder" These dogs at least in northern Europe have been in-breded too much so diseases, cancer and other defects follow them. Not sure if its the same in Thailand, Hello ALL Boxer Lovers?

[Mangosteen1]

[sustento]

Boxers (along with all the other bracycephalic - short-nosed) dogs are not well suited to life in hot countries. Their short nasal passages don't allow air to cool enough as it passes into their lungs.

[Mangosteen1]

Boxers (along with all the other bracycephalic - short-nosed) dogs are not well suited to life in hot countries. Their short nasal passages don't allow air to cool enough as it passes into their lungs.

Cheers I really appreciate it good to know. great info. feel free to add more.

I'm adding a question for you haha. Which dogs, similar breeds or others are suitable for the Thai Climate?

[Nienke]

There are a few boxer breeders in Thailand. One is in Chiang Mai. He breeds boxers for more than 15 years alreadyHe speaks good English. You can contact him thru facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sakol.limsakdakul?fref=pb&hc_location=friends_tab.

One word of warning. Something I've noticed during the last few years, and that is that the boxers here are susceptible to vaccine side-effects. I've seen several boxers pups already developing generalized demodectic mange, which is very hard to treat.
The demodectic mange mite is brought over form the mother dog to her puppies when the puppies suckle the milk.
A strong immune system can keep the mites in check. But when the immune system is weakened (due to sickness and over-vaccination) the mites get a chance to multiply which causes bold patches in the dog's coat.

Here some pics of Thailand bred boxers that developed generalized demodectic mange after their puppy vaccinations:

Generalized demodectic mange:

This pup developed anorexia and meningtitis as well. She survived it all due to alternative medicines and lives a happy live. Also her sister developed demodectic mange, but not as severe.

Now, with this I do not say 'don't get a boxer in Thailand", I do say: "be careful with the vaccines, as I've notice (some) boxers here seem to be more susceptible to vaccine adverse reactions than other breeds I've seen here. "

Edited October 10, 2013 by Nienke

[jacko45k]

Boxers (along with all the other bracycephalic - short-nosed) dogs are not well suited to life in hot countries. Their short nasal passages don't allow air to cool enough as it passes into their lungs.

Cheers I really appreciate it good to know. great info. feel free to add more.

I'm adding a question for you haha. Which dogs, similar breeds or others are suitable for the Thai Climate?

Thai ridgeback.

True about the short-nosed dogs, a friend had a great bulldog nearby but the poor thing had a lot of problems breathing and skin issues.

[jinners]

don't know about "a lot of Boxers in Thailand" I'm in Jomtein/Pattaya and don't think I've ever seen one. As a previous Boxer owner and lover of these dogs, I'd know! I think the shorter nose may have an impact with bulldog type breeds, not so sure it would be an issue for Boxers. The vaccine issue is a problem though. That specific reaction from the Boxer breed?

I think if the guy in Chang Mai has been breeding em for 15 years, he's the guy to get with for both inbreeding and vaccine issues. Good luck and look forward to seeing those pictures

[Robbie Dye]

As you can see from the picture here is my Boxer. She was bred by Castle Boxers in Bangkok and made it to 9 before passing on, she wd have made longer had the ex not taken her on "holiday" up north for a year and brought her back nearly dead from tick diseases, I took her to Chulanlongkorn Hospital in BKK and she got well again. She NEVER had any other problems. Thoroughly recommend Castle if they still doing what they did.

[Nienke]

Castle boxer and the breeder in Chiang Mai work closely together, if I'm not mistaken.

What I like about their boxers is that they are 'American style"; that is: slightly longer muzzle and a more slender bone structure than the European style boxer.

[eddiesdad]

I live in Pattaya and have two pure bread Boxers, both Male. One is 5 1/2 and the other is 2 1/2 years old. They both come from a breeder in Taiwan. The first, Eddie was bought while I worked in Taiwan and came over with me when I moved to Thailand. The second, Oscar was bought in Taiwan (from the same breeder) and shipped over to Thailand. I am not sure about the breeder mentioned in Chang Mai but in general I personally don't trust dog breeders here in Thailand. The breeder I used in Taiwan was registered with the Kennel Club of Taiwan and affiliated world wide. If you are going to buy a Boxer then you MUST know the breeder. As already stated Boxers, as with all dogs that are not bred correctly can suffer problems. It is most certainly not fair on the dog to have to suffer these problems just because a "breeder" wants to make quick money. It also won't be good for you as an owner who constantly has to deal with these health issues. Do some research so you know what to look for.

Having said all of that you will never regret owning a Boxer, they are addictive !. Boxers don't wag their tail, they wag their whole body (the Boxer bend !) when they greet you. They are very loyal and form very strong bonds to their family. They are very intelligent dogs and aren't too difficult to train as long as you become pack leader. They will become very boisterous if you don't lead. They need exercise - better if they get this two times a day. I take my Boxers on long runs (out of the city on open ground). What has already been said is true about the possibility of them over heating. It is not a problem in Thailand as long as you think ahead. I vary their exercise at different times of the year. Middle of the summer when it's hottest they go out either very early in the morning or late evening. I pick a trail that has trees for shade and at least one point where there is water ie a pond or lake for them to cool off in. This time of the year when it is raining they charge around all day long with no problems what so ever. Boxers don't get much cooling effect from their nose so most of the work is done with their tongue. You will know if they are getting too hot - it will be obvious from the way they are panting. If you want to help them cool off then put water on their CHEST or underside, not their back. This is the way dogs cool off when they lay in water.

Good luck and hope you find one !.

[Mangosteen1]

I live in Pattaya and have two pure bread Boxers, both Male. One is 5 1/2 and the other is 2 1/2 years old. They both come from a breeder in Taiwan. The first, Eddie was bought while I worked in Taiwan and came over with me when I moved to Thailand. The second, Oscar was bought in Taiwan (from the same breeder) and shipped over to Thailand. I am not sure about the breeder mentioned in Chang Mai but in general I personally don't trust dog breeders here in Thailand. The breeder I used in Taiwan was registered with the Kennel Club of Taiwan and affiliated world wide. If you are going to buy a Boxer then you MUST know the breeder. As already stated Boxers, as with all dogs that are not bred correctly can suffer problems. It is most certainly not fair on the dog to have to suffer these problems just because a "breeder" wants to make quick money. It also won't be good for you as an owner who constantly has to deal with these health issues. Do some research so you know what to look for.

Having said all of that you will never regret owning a Boxer, they are addictive !. Boxers don't wag their tail, they wag their whole body (the Boxer bend !) when they greet you. They are very loyal and form very strong bonds to their family. They are very intelligent dogs and aren't too difficult to train as long as you become pack leader. They will become very boisterous if you don't lead. They need exercise - better if they get this two times a day. I take my Boxers on long runs (out of the city on open ground). What has already been said is true about the possibility of them over heating. It is not a problem in Thailand as long as you think ahead. I vary their exercise at different times of the year. Middle of the summer when it's hottest they go out either very early in the morning or late evening. I pick a trail that has trees for shade and at least one point where there is water ie a pond or lake for them to cool off in. This time of the year when it is raining they charge around all day long with no problems what so ever. Boxers don't get much cooling effect from their nose so most of the work is done with their tongue. You will know if they are getting too hot - it will be obvious from the way they are panting. If you want to help them cool off then put water on their CHEST or underside, not their back. This is the way dogs cool off when they lay in water.

Good luck and hope you find one !.

Cheers for all good info. I really appreciate it. Yes I better pay more and travel 1000 miles to get the dog from a good breeder. My gf said we just go to the doggy farm. But I have my suspicions(Never seen the place before but when I hear the words: DOGGY+FARM) It just doesn't sound right in my ears. What happen if you put water on their backs?

[Mangosteen1]

There are a few boxer breeders in Thailand. One is in Chiang Mai. He breeds boxers for more than 15 years alreadyHe speaks good English. You can contact him thru facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sakol.limsakdakul?fref=pb&hc_location=friends_tab.

One word of warning. Something I've noticed during the last few years, and that is that the boxers here are susceptible to vaccine side-effects. I've seen several boxers pups already developing generalized demodectic mange, which is very hard to treat.

The demodectic mange mite is brought over form the mother dog to her puppies when the puppies suckle the milk.

A strong immune system can keep the mites in check. But when the immune system is weakened (due to sickness and over-vaccination) the mites get a chance to multiply which causes bold patches in the dog's coat.

Here some pics of Thailand bred boxers that developed generalized demodectic mange after their puppy vaccinations:

Generalized demodectic mange:

P1010076.JPG

This pup developed anorexia and meningtitis as well. She survived it all due to alternative medicines and lives a happy live. Also her sister developed demodectic mange, but not as severe.

mange head left3 08-09-09.JPG

Now, with this I do not say 'don't get a boxer in Thailand", I do say: "be careful with the vaccines, as I've notice (some) boxers here seem to be more susceptible to vaccine adverse reactions than other breeds I've seen here. "

Thank Ive seen it before but I never thought it was from the vaccine. thanx. I will really give this a thought before I get my dog(ops MY dog. OURS me and my gf) otherwise I will get to taste that south-Thai temper

[sustento]

As has been said you will never regret getting a boxer. They are the absolute biz!

Unlike Nienke I prefer the chunky ones...

[sunshine51]

Boxers are great dogs. I don't have one as I have rescued mutts...4 of em...

3 are just boonie dogs while one...Plod...is a grey ridgeback. He's rather

heavy set, muscular not fat...well perhaps a lil bit fat...well mannered,

huge bundle of love and if he doesn't know somebody...the best dam_n

guard dog I have ever seen that I would not argue with. Good Luck

in your quest Mangosteen1...

[Mangosteen1]

Boxers are great dogs. I don't have one as I have rescued mutts...4 of em...

3 are just boonie dogs while one...Plod...is a grey ridgeback. He's rather

heavy set, muscular not fat...well perhaps a lil bit fat...well mannered,

huge bundle of love and if he doesn't know somebody...the best dam_n

guard dog I have ever seen that I would not argue with. Good Luck

in your quest Mangosteen1...

How much truth do you think it is in this:

The relationship between the (South African)Rhodesian and Thai Ridgeback is uncertain. Some speculate since the Thai dog was very popular with fisherman amongst the piers of Eastern Thailand that they may have traveled with them. They believe the fisherman may have traveled with the Thai Ridgeback,

introducing it to the continent of Africa during their course of trade.

[LeCharivari]

As has been said you will never regret getting a boxer. They are the absolute biz!

Unlike Nienke I prefer the chunky ones...

Agreed - I've had two boxers in Thailand and they were both "European style". The Thai boxers bred for shows are very much "American style" and bred to conform to AKC rather than KC specs, so they are considerably different: much more slender in the leg and chest, without the boxers traditional musculature. To me they look more like a boxer/great dane mix.

Boxers are "short-nosed", true, but nothing like bulldogs and the heat isn't nearly as much of a problem for them. Mine used to get a couple of hours exercise a day, but as most of that was on the beach they kept cool by swimming in the sea.

For those who aren't aware of it, when God made the first boxer he originally had a long nose but when he caught sight of his own reflection in a mirror he was so taken by the stunning good looks of the dog he saw that he ran up to it for a closer look and squashed his nose on the glass, and he's been like that ever since.

[LeCharivari]

There are a few boxer breeders in Thailand. One is in Chiang Mai. He breeds boxers for more than 15 years alreadyHe speaks good English. You can contact him thru facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sakol.limsakdakul?fref=pb&hc_location=friends_tab.

One word of warning. Something I've noticed during the last few years, and that is that the boxers here are susceptible to vaccine side-effects. I've seen several boxers pups already developing generalized demodectic mange, which is very hard to treat.

The demodectic mange mite is brought over form the mother dog to her puppies when the puppies suckle the milk.

A strong immune system can keep the mites in check. But when the immune system is weakened (due to sickness and over-vaccination) the mites get a chance to multiply which causes bold patches in the dog's coat.

Here some pics of Thailand bred boxers that developed generalized demodectic mange after their puppy vaccinations:

Generalized demodectic mange:

P1010076.JPG

This pup developed anorexia and meningtitis as well. She survived it all due to alternative medicines and lives a happy live. Also her sister developed demodectic mange, but not as severe.

mange head left3 08-09-09.JPG

Now, with this I do not say 'don't get a boxer in Thailand", I do say: "be careful with the vaccines, as I've notice (some) boxers here seem to be more susceptible to vaccine adverse reactions than other breeds I've seen here. "

Thank Ive seen it before but I never thought it was from the vaccine. thanx. I will really give this a thought before I get my dog(ops MY dog. OURS me and my gf) otherwise I will get to taste that south-Thai temper

Nienke's views on puppy vaccination are well known here and this has been discussed a number of times, so rather than do so again I would simply say get advice from a qualified vet on this subject as you have to weigh up the pros and cons very carefully and the risk you are taking if you choose not to vaccinate your dog.

It is quite possible that if one particular breed locally (here) seems over-susceptible to vaccine side-effects, particularly demodectic mange, that it is because of their breeding/parentage rather than vaccinations - particularly if this involves puppies from the same parents/litters. Most vets and breeders agree that there is a hereditary component to demodectic mange which can be passed from the sire as well as the dam if either has had demodectic mange and consequently any dogs that have had it should be neutered as a matter of course and not bred from - unfortunately not all breeders agree (particularly those whose dogs have had it and who want to breed from those dogs!) so it seems very likely that if these boxers are from the same breeder or have a common lineage that the problem is with their parentage not the vaccinations.

[Nienke]

Nienke's views on puppy vaccination are well known here and this has been discussed a number of times, so rather than do so again I would simply say get advice from a qualified vet on this subject as you have to weigh up the pros and cons very carefully and the risk you are taking if you choose not to vaccinate your dog.

Totally agree; one should educate him/herself about the pro's and cons of vaccination from some qualified DVMs and immunologists:

http://www.vaccinationnews.com/DailyNews/May2002/ImmSyst%2526DisResist.htm

MoreIsNotBetter.pdf

AdverseVaccReactions%20Dodds.pdf

Vaccine protocol 2011 Jean Dodds.doc

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/vets-on-vaccines/

And an immunologists view on herd-immunity (in humans): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Dts3ebwWlo

Oh, and LeCharivari, please send quotes of me where I state, insinuate or advise not to vaccinate dogs (and cats). Thank you.

[LeCharivari]

Nienke's views on puppy vaccination are well known here and this has been discussed a number of times, so rather than do so again I would simply say get advice from a qualified vet on this subject as you have to weigh up the pros and cons very carefully and the risk you are taking if you choose not to vaccinate your dog.

Totally agree; one should educate him/herself about the pro's and cons of vaccination from some qualified DVMs and immunologists:

http://www.vaccinationnews.com/DailyNews/May2002/ImmSyst%2526DisResist.htm

MoreIsNotBetter.pdf

AdverseVaccReactions%20Dodds.pdf

Vaccine protocol 2011 Jean Dodds.doc

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/vets-on-vaccines/

And an immunologists view on herd-immunity (in humans): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Dts3ebwWlo

Oh, and LeCharivari, please send quotes of me where I state, insinuate or advise not to vaccinate dogs (and cats). Thank you.

Let me clarify.

When I am talking about "not vaccinating" dogs I am talking about not vaccinating them according to the amounts and frequency approved and recommended by the vast majority of vets, immunologists and dog/animal welfare groups worldwide.

There is a very small body of opinion, which unless I have misunderstood your posts on the subject you support, which considers this "over-vaccination" because some of these vaccines can allegedly have serious side-effects in a very small number of cases - similar, as your links above point out, to the small body of opinion that the MMR vaccine for children is dangerous to them. It is possible to find views, including qualified ones, in support of almost anything on the internet but overwhelming medical opinion is that while there may be some dangers from both vaccines even allowing for that possibility the probable benefits far outweigh any possible dangers.

The reason for my post is simply because some readers may take your posts as advice that there is a direct link between approved, normal vaccinations and an increased susceptibility to demodectic mange in "boxers here"

as both Mangosteen 1 ("Thank Ive seen it before but I never thought it was from the vaccine") and jinners ("The vaccine issue is a problem though. That specific reaction from the Boxer breed?") did.

This is NOT likely to be the case in "boxers here" as it is far more likely that the condition in these particular dogs is inherited, particularly given the few recognised breeders here and the possibility that the two leading breeders cross-breed, which is less likely to be the case with "other breeds" which are more popular/numerous.

[bina]

boxers have no problems in heat, if they are bred and grown up in hot countries. israeli boxers all have longer noses and they are working dogs here too. my nero was from finland and the chunky type, he did suffer here, but nala ,born and bred in teh negev had zero problems in heat. both died from genetic boxer conditions. nero from cancers and nala from cardiomyapathy (nowadays screening is carried out here for that).

as for vaccines, no need to argue, we know nienke prefers to deal with vaccines differently but after two weeks ago, i may start paying more attention. my lhasa , lilee, gave birth to lhasa poo pups. the birth was hard (getting spayed next month) but 6 healthy pups; the two smaller females went in to shock after their first 6way vaccines. the other pups had no side affects whatso over. the two girls took quite awhile to get back to 'themselves' after the vaccine.

as for dogs, breeds, or mixed breeds should match your temperment and life style. i went from staffies to boxers to lhasas/and one of lilee's pups stays with us also... they are a big dog in a small body and we clip them not too short and they deal fine with the heat (our heat is desert heat not humid but still, we dont use a/c in the house).

personally i would always go for a thai village dog if living in a large house/yard. like our canaan dog.

boxers can deal with apartmetns and villages no problem. basically giant lap dogs with lots of energy, and very needing to be with family all the itme. lhasas do their own thing, independant little dogs. thai ridgebacks need to be worked with and im not sure they fit with people that have no dog experience (as rhodies also fit in this label).

[Mangosteen1]

boxers have no problems in heat, if they are bred and grown up in hot countries. israeli boxers all have longer noses and they are working dogs here too. my nero was from finland and the chunky type, he did suffer here, but nala ,born and bred in teh negev had zero problems in heat. both died from genetic boxer conditions. nero from cancers and nala from cardiomyapathy (nowadays screening is carried out here for that).

as for vaccines, no need to argue, we know nienke prefers to deal with vaccines differently but after two weeks ago, i may start paying more attention. my lhasa , lilee, gave birth to lhasa poo pups. the birth was hard (getting spayed next month) but 6 healthy pups; the two smaller females went in to shock after their first 6way vaccines. the other pups had no side affects whatso over. the two girls took quite awhile to get back to 'themselves' after the vaccine.

as for dogs, breeds, or mixed breeds should match your temperment and life style. i went from staffies to boxers to lhasas/and one of lilee's pups stays with us also... they are a big dog in a small body and we clip them not too short and they deal fine with the heat (our heat is desert heat not humid but still, we dont use a/c in the house).

personally i would always go for a thai village dog if living in a large house/yard. like our canaan dog.

boxers can deal with apartmetns and villages no problem. basically giant lap dogs with lots of energy, and very needing to be with family all the itme. lhasas do their own thing, independant little dogs. thai ridgebacks need to be worked with and im not sure they fit with people that have no dog experience (as rhodies also fit in this label).

Thanx very good info. Now you got me interested in Israeli dogs. which dogs breeds are native too "The Holy land"?

[Nienke]

Nienke's views on puppy vaccination are well known here and this has been discussed a number of times, so rather than do so again I would simply say get advice from a qualified vet on this subject as you have to weigh up the pros and cons very carefully and the risk you are taking if you choose not to vaccinate your dog.

Totally agree; one should educate him/herself about the pro's and cons of vaccination from some qualified DVMs and immunologists:

http://www.vaccinationnews.com/DailyNews/May2002/ImmSyst%2526DisResist.htm

MoreIsNotBetter.pdf

AdverseVaccReactions%20Dodds.pdf

Vaccine protocol 2011 Jean Dodds.doc

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/vets-on-vaccines/

And an immunologists view on herd-immunity (in humans): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Dts3ebwWlo

Oh, and LeCharivari, please send quotes of me where I state, insinuate or advise not to vaccinate dogs (and cats). Thank you.

Let me clarify.

When I am talking about "not vaccinating" dogs I am talking about not vaccinating them according to the amounts and frequency approved and recommended by the vast majority of vets, immunologists and dog/animal welfare groups worldwide.

There is a very small body of opinion, which unless I have misunderstood your posts on the subject you support, which considers this "over-vaccination" because some of these vaccines can allegedly have serious side-effects in a very small number of cases - similar, as your links above point out, to the small body of opinion that the MMR vaccine for children is dangerous to them. It is possible to find views, including qualified ones, in support of almost anything on the internet but overwhelming medical opinion is that while there may be some dangers from both vaccines even allowing for that possibility the probable benefits far outweigh any possible dangers.

The reason for my post is simply because some readers may take your posts as advice that there is a direct link between approved, normal vaccinations and an increased susceptibility to demodectic mange in "boxers here"

as both Mangosteen 1 ("Thank Ive seen it before but I never thought it was from the vaccine") and jinners ("The vaccine issue is a problem though. That specific reaction from the Boxer breed?") did.

This is NOT likely to be the case in "boxers here" as it is far more likely that the condition in these particular dogs is inherited, particularly given the few recognised breeders here and the possibility that the two leading breeders cross-breed, which is less likely to be the case with "other breeds" which are more popular/numerous.

Thank you, LC, for the clarification. There is a BIG difference between advising pet-owners not to vaccinate at all or warning people of the dangers of over-vaccination. Me accusing of doing the first, on a well-read public forum, comes close to slander and liability. Please, do not twist my words again. Thank you.

As for demodectic mange in dogs; actually this mange mite is very common (world wide) and even seen by some as part of the normal fauna on a dog's skin. A healthy immune system keeps it in check. This is similar to the many different bacteria species and viruses that live on a dog's (and our) skin.

It is only that when the immune system weakens these mites get a chance to multiply giving the balding spots that we can see.

What causes the immune system to weaken can be many things, such as malnutrition, bad diet, ongoing abuse, hormonal changes and, yes, too many (combined) vaccines in a too short time period (over-vaccination)

Certain breeds are more suceptible for outbreaks of mange and secondary skin infections than other breeds. There is a hereditary compound. .

A more sensitive vaccination protocol, such as the last one suggested by Dr. Jean Dodds, gives the same protection but with a lower chance on adverse reactions.

I'm sorry, Bina, that you had to learn the hard way. But I'm even more sorry for the pups, that went through a lot of suffering already at such a young age.

[bina]

here we dont have any other protocol and parvo is rampant (as is rabies)... and these are young vets, fresh out of school and the latest info as opposed to theold fashioned israeli 'jab stab bye until next time' style...

im curious about the mange cause in israel many of the local arabian horse mixes also end up with mange, and it has nothing to do with living circimstances. also the donkeys here, some are prone and osme arent.

canaan dogs look like thai village dogs, very territorial, like heights, have cat like paws, ahve few genetic problems so far because , at least in israel, they are either local garbage dogs and also are not a popular breed. israelis prefer shitzu type animals or alsations (prestige, and relatively small housing and among many cultures here, indoor dogs have to be small and cute;large dogs are only outdoor dogs).

flavour of the month here is viszlas and unforutnately they dont do well in small houses, with poeple with long working hours and dig up gardens... and cavalier king charles (complete with genetic fly catching neurological syndrome - thanx nienke for that link on genetic problems in dogs blog on facebook btw i gave it to my vets and my saluki breeding friend here)

canaans are good for farm setups, or someone hwo can wants an indepandent vocal very vocal guard dog, good with family. they arenot that beautiful: the european and american ones have left the desert type and look more like huskies or spitz dogs.

they are not normally for first time dog owners unless you have to time to learn and work with them. they are 'primitive' dogs , you cant really see when they come in to heat, they tend to dig nests to give birth, all of the ones i know regurgitate their food for teh pups, and myrna, the main breeder here, doesn not help weak pups survive. she also wont breed a bitch that has a bad track record for birth problems or mommy care problems.

the saluki is an other dog, but again you must must be able to run kilometers, theya re total sight hounds and its not been bred out of them at least in this part of th eworld. actually a saluki would do well in thai heat in the house are laid back but outside, watch out.

[LeCharivari]

Thank you, LC, for the clarification. There is a BIG difference between advising pet-owners not to vaccinate at all or warning people of the dangers of over-vaccination. Me accusing of doing the first, on a well-read public forum, comes close to slander and liability. Please, do not twist my words again. Thank you.

As for demodectic mange in dogs; actually this mange mite is very common (world wide) and even seen by some as part of the normal fauna on a dog's skin. A healthy immune system keeps it in check. This is similar to the many different bacteria species and viruses that live on a dog's (and our) skin.

It is only that when the immune system weakens these mites get a chance to multiply giving the balding spots that we can see.

What causes the immune system to weaken can be many things, such as malnutrition, bad diet, ongoing abuse, hormonal changes and, yes, too many (combined) vaccines in a too short time period (over-vaccination)

Certain breeds are more suceptible for outbreaks of mange and secondary skin infections than other breeds. There is a hereditary compound. .

A more sensitive vaccination protocol, such as the last one suggested by Dr. Jean Dodds, gives the same protection but with a lower chance on adverse reactions.

I'm sorry, Bina, that you had to learn the hard way. But I'm even more sorry for the pups, that went through a lot of suffering already at such a young age.

I was hoping to follow bina and not argue about this, but you are continuing to imply that your own view is recognised medical fact, which it is NOT.

"A more sensitive vaccination protocol, such as the last one suggested by Dr. Jean Dodds, gives the same protection but with a lower chance on adverse reactions."

The medical view accepted and recommended by the VAST MAJORITY of vets is that a "more sensitive vaccination protocol" does NOT "give the same protection" as the recommended dosage for puppies - dosages for adult dogs are more controversial and, arguably, a different matter. Vets do not recommend this dosage just because they can charge to administer the vaccine - any difference in charges would be minimal - they do so because it is a result of extensive research and in the best interests of the vast majority of young animals.

Many of those vets also believe that giving a "more sensitive vaccination protocol" to puppies is actually WORSE than not vaccinating at all as it introduces the virus without protecting against it, so most vets will not give reduced dosages or have anything to do with a "more sensitive vaccination protocol" for puppies, so some ill-informed owners may be tempted just to not give follow-up vaccinations - the worst solution.

... and for the record, I did NOT accuse you of "advising pet-owners not to vaccinate at all", so please do not twist MY words again, thank you.

Edited October 21, 2013 by LeCharivari

[LeCharivari]

here we dont have any other protocol and parvo is rampant (as is rabies)... and these are young vets, fresh out of school and the latest info as opposed to theold fashioned israeli 'jab stab bye until next time' style...

im curious about the mange cause in israel many of the local arabian horse mixes also end up with mange, and it has nothing to do with living circimstances. also the donkeys here, some are prone and osme arent.

(edited)

In countries where animal insurance is available no other "protocol" is accepted by insurers and animal insurance will be refused unless the recommended dosage is administered.

The genetic/inherited element is still not clear in specifics in cases of mange, although it is widely accepted by vets and by most breeders. Unfortunately many breeders prefer to put profit over health and so they continue to breed from infected dogs and, obviously, horses and donkeys which should be neutered - if that happened the numbers of boxers in Thailand and horses and donkeys in Israel with mange would probably be considerably less, but they would be more expensive.

Anyone buying young animals (puppies, foals, etc) should check the parentage, if they can.

[bina]

i would say that in general, and based on the pet store i walked in to today to get stuff for my pups, we are 'americanizing' at an amazing rate, for good and bad, from organic (super expensive) dog foods to all the latest toys/training stuff/booties for working dogs/dental hygiene and of course, amazing sofa beds (of which i bought two to accomodate five lhasas)... compared to when dogs got the leftover dead chickens form the chicken coop, a rabies jab once a year, and a towel on the floor.

horses and donkeys also ahve moved up in the treatment/training/care world... so oral ivermec in various forms has become basic protocol, not to mention some amazing sprays and things that have come from the states/england .... mostly in shows /road sales...

so screening is better, breeding has changed, and we are moving from a third world to first world pet ownership coutnry... so it jused to be that people never vaccinated for anything but rabies , no animals: tetanus, all the other vaccines for caprines, etc.

now everyone does it. soon im sure that nienke's ideas will become popular (we are always time lagged a bit behind europe in everyhting from breast feeding to vaccinations)...

as for that argument: people can search onthe net for pros and cons; we arent talking about children's lives here, but our pets, and there is a bit of difference.

so lets stop the arguement that we have every time : it is very easy to argue about feeding/diapering and vaccinations of our kids/pets as we take it very emotionally.

anyhow,

boxers rock....

[sustento]

boxers rock....

+1

[LeCharivari]

i would say that in general, and based on the pet store i walked in to today to get stuff for my pups, we are 'americanizing' at an amazing rate, for good and bad, from organic (super expensive) dog foods to all the latest toys/training stuff/booties for working dogs/dental hygiene and of course, amazing sofa beds (of which i bought two to accomodate five lhasas)... compared to when dogs got the leftover dead chickens form the chicken coop, a rabies jab once a year, and a towel on the floor.

horses and donkeys also ahve moved up in the treatment/training/care world... so oral ivermec in various forms has become basic protocol, not to mention some amazing sprays and things that have come from the states/england .... mostly in shows /road sales...

so screening is better, breeding has changed, and we are moving from a third world to first world pet ownership coutnry... so it jused to be that people never vaccinated for anything but rabies , no animals: tetanus, all the other vaccines for caprines, etc.

now everyone does it. soon im sure that nienke's ideas will become popular (we are always time lagged a bit behind europe in everyhting from breast feeding to vaccinations)...

as for that argument: people can search onthe net for pros and cons; we arent talking about children's lives here, but our pets, and there is a bit of difference.

so lets stop the arguement that we have every time : it is very easy to argue about feeding/diapering and vaccinations of our kids/pets as we take it very emotionally.

anyhow,

boxers rock....

"(we are always time lagged a bit behind europe in everyhting from breast feeding to vaccinations)."

I may have mis-read you, but you seem to suggest that these ideas on an amended/reduced vaccination regime may be becoming more accepted in Europe - that is NOT the case. Animal insurance is becoming more the norm in Europe as it is in the States and Australia, and as a consequence of that and continued medical studies the accepted series of vaccinations is gaining strength as the only acceptable option, not losing it. Let's just say ask around qualified and trained vets you trust for advice, and leave it at that.

What is gaining strength is the view that many of the problems associated with mange are inherited and that this is the prime source of the problem in some breeds. The Kennel Club and the AKC both seem to support this as it is now possible for buyers to stipulate that breed registers/papers guarantee that at least 2 generations of parents on both sides of a puppy have never been treated for mange - it is not possible to show that they have been "mange free" as virtually all vets agree that all dogs carry mange to a certain degree. This aspect is played down, unfortunately, by both breeders and boarders - breeders would obviously lose breeding stock if those with mange were spayed and never bred from, and boarders could be sued by owners of those catching mange while boarded not just for treatment costs but for the potential income lost if a dog could not be bred; such losses could put many breeders and boarders out of business.

Boxers, as you say, rock and I would recommend that anyone buying one in Thailand tries to establish their parents' "mange history" because of the limited registered breeding stock, although I doubt if this will be possible from the breeders.

... and I look on my animals as my children, so I don't see any difference there (except, fortunately, for the cost!)

Edited October 22, 2013 by LeCharivari

[Bmouthboyo]

Hi guys, sorry to bring up an old thread but thought might be better than starting a new one.

My wife and I live in a nice house in BKK and will be here with my work for at least the next 3 years. Finally we have somewhere we could have a boxer!

I grew up with one so know the character. My inky issue is finding high quality breeders here in Thailand, obviously the language barrier and concerns about the small breeding pool are main issues.

I hear castle boxers a lot but cannot find a website or contact info. Can anyone advise on quality breeders, and prices we may be looking at?

Cheers

[meatboy]

our dog is our son,he eats with us,goes out in the car with us and sleeps in our bed with us,we wouldn't have it any other way.