In Defence of Pattaya and in defiance to the Haters

[Sigurris]

Then you have totally missed the point of what this thread started out to be. At no point did I set out to defend accusations that Pattaya has all the things you rail against. My point was that this city, as with every other city in the world, is multi faceted. There is good, there is bad and there is indifferent.

As someone who came here for work and has lived here quite happily for 3 years, without ever paying a girl to sleep with me, I have found there is a rich seam of life that is not part of the seedy world that you and so many other haters (or to use your term pitiers) don't want to acknowledge. That was all this thread intended before the haters hijacked it to pour scorn on everyone not just those who come here to buy sex.

What you don't get or refuse to acknowledge is that we are not all the same. We didn't all come here for sex. And we don't all stay because we have to.

As for 97% of men moving here because of a holiday. I don't know, maybe you are right but it is also true that 87.64% of all statistics are made up.

Look at the figures for tourism here. It keeps going up with Chinese, Korean and Russians being the biggest groups. Groups who, incidentally, do not register on the sexual predator/sexpat list. In fact the Western single man is in decline, but hey don't let the facts get in the way.

And please, please save your pity for those who warrant it. I am happy to live in this multi cultural melting pot; it's not perfect but show me a place that is. I have just booked my wine appreciation dinner and will go out tonight to listen to some live jazz and eat a superb seafood dinner not 1km from my home. LIfe is tough but we will endure.

[Tolley]

I don't think it was ever going to have much new to say but given that I got 30-40 likes its nice to see that others share my view of this city. The myopics, bigots and haters of Pattaya had their day in the sun and generally revealed themselves as people who see one thing and hate all things. Overall an entertaining diversion but, like my learned friend Mr. Worldwide, I agree its time to put this baby to bed until the next time!

As Kris Kristofferson said during an encore, "You might as well go home now, it don't get no better than this."

I think you are wrong. I have been following this thread from the beginning, and not one Pattaya lover has successfully defended the den of iniquity against the accusation that, for the most part, Pattaya is a place where sad aging men go to take advantage of the abundance of misguided youth selling their souls for what they believe will provide a better like for their parents, kids, themselves, whoever.

I won't debate the whole bar girl-hooker life thing here. But the fact is, seldom does the Pattaya story end well for the vendor or the buyer, thus the huge number of girls hooked on yaba and alcohol, and the number of sociapathic foreigners who end up jumping off a balcony, losing all their cash in one way or another or returning home spouting inaccuracies regarding Thai women and Thailand in general.

Not one person has made a successful case for wanting to live there other than for the 'hookers on tap' lifestyle. I'd go as far as to say that 97% of men who move there do so because they took a holiday there and for the first time in their lives experienced women that apparently didn't find them repulsive or socially inept.

I posted an excerpt from BKK magazine detailing four incidents over four days of naked foreigners going crazy in Pattaya. None of you guys battered an eyelid, as if this was normal. You don't need a debate to ascertain whether Pattaya is a decent place to live. As I said in my very first post, just compare the news stories coming out of Pattaya on a daily basis to anywhere else in the country.

What has been proven beyond doubt in the debate is that Pattaya does not represent Thai culture or the average Thai person's experience of their country on a day-to-day basis. Neither does it represent the experience of the majority of foreigners living in Thailand. It is, by and large, a place where lost souls meet other souls, believing they are taking advantage of each other's misfortune.

I also think using the word 'haters' is misguided. It somewhat implies that people are jealous of those living in Pattaya. In truth, people don't hate, they pity the lost souls. They pity those who will die alone, those who will be bled of all their savings, those who will drown their inner sadness in the bottom of a glass every night for the remainder of their lives, surrounded by women who are happy to pour them another drink and take them one step closer to their maker.

It's also desperately sad for the women. Women who are daughters and sisters and mothers. Women who once had dreams like every other girl in the world; aspirations of a rewarding career and a man who loves and takes proper care of them. No girl dreams of sleeping with men twice or three times her age for a living when she gets older, or living in a town infested by the underbelly of society, for that matter. I salute many of these girls because although entirely misguided in their choice, they are willing to sell their soul, their identity, their culture, their moral compass down the river to try and give their kids a better life and better opportunities than they had. Sadly, that is rarely the case.

Here endeth the lesson for today .

[hanno]

Yesterday I came back from a few days both in Hia Hin.

Hua Hin:

I have been there a couple of times before but never ventured out much of the very nice resort I usually stay at. This time round it was the first time that I explored a little and the OP is absolutely right: there are plenty of seedy bars right behind the Hilton though I did think it was not as aggressive as some of the seedier parts of BKK or indeed Thailand.

The plus side of Hua Hin is of course that it does have a proper beach and the absence (almost) of jet skis, paragliding, speedboats, etc.

Pattaya:

Yes, I admit it: I m one of the people that do not like Pattaya. I went a couple of times 15 years ago and then it was admittedly for the nightlife. Nothing happened back then to me (I guess traveling as part of a Rugger team has its advantages) but I have never much enjoyed the blatant in-your-face sex and seediness.

In the last coupe of years I went to Pattaya twice to participate in the hotel exhibition but was still not impress.

This week I visited with a friend who went there on business. As she worked during the day, I probably walked/ran 50 kilometers in and around Pattaya and must say that I do appreciate it a little more. My friend knows Pattaya much better than me and we ended up having some good meals, excellent meals, and a great tme.

I did not go anywhere Walking Street but did go to a "Bar Beer" in the afternoons. Not one of the seedier ones, but one frequented by all sorts of people, including couples. Were there hookers around? I guess so, but nobody bothered me and the staff were very friendly (I even think it was called "Friendly Bar" or something like that.

In conclusion I still prefer Hua Hin to Pattaya but I do think Pattaya is OK if one stays away from certain areas and people. The latter is a shame as I would have liked to rent a jet ski but I did not want to spoil a pleasant few days by getting scammed.

[StreetCowboy]

Although I've only been to pattaya once, never mind the crimes there, but I see many people enjoying there. So I guess overall pattaya is still worth visiting.

Only if you want to enjoy yourself. Apparently if you want to villify and berate your fellow man, there is no need; you can do so quite adequately from a distance, and without engaging him personally.

Personally, although I have been a couple of times on family holidays, I don't particularly like Pattaya, though my opinion might be changed if I were to indulge in the fleshpots of Walking Street and the neon quarter.

SC

[Jackson86]

Although I've only been to pattaya once, never mind the crimes there, but I see many people enjoying there. So I guess overall pattaya is still worth visiting.

Only if you want to enjoy yourself. Apparently if you want to villify and berate your fellow man, there is no need; you can do so quite adequately from a distance, and without engaging him personally.

Personally, although I have been a couple of times on family holidays, I don't particularly like Pattaya, though my opinion might be changed if I were to indulge in the fleshpots of Walking Street and the neon quarter.

SC

actually, after having read the news on ATM scams, I do fear Pattaya in some sense. The police there do really need to improve on security.

[thaibeachlovers]

I don't think it was ever going to have much new to say but given that I got 30-40 likes its nice to see that others share my view of this city. The myopics, bigots and haters of Pattaya had their day in the sun and generally revealed themselves as people who see one thing and hate all things. Overall an entertaining diversion but, like my learned friend Mr. Worldwide, I agree its time to put this baby to bed until the next time!

As Kris Kristofferson said during an encore, "You might as well go home now, it don't get no better than this."

I think you are wrong. I have been following this thread from the beginning, and not one Pattaya lover has successfully defended the den of iniquity against the accusation that, for the most part, Pattaya is a place where sad aging men go to take advantage of the abundance of misguided youth selling their souls for what they believe will provide a better like for their parents, kids, themselves, whoever.

I won't debate the whole bar girl-hooker life thing here. But the fact is, seldom does the Pattaya story end well for the vendor or the buyer, thus the huge number of girls hooked on yaba and alcohol, and the number of sociapathic foreigners who end up jumping off a balcony, losing all their cash in one way or another or returning home spouting inaccuracies regarding Thai women and Thailand in general.

Not one person has made a successful case for wanting to live there other than for the 'hookers on tap' lifestyle. I'd go as far as to say that 97% of men who move there do so because they took a holiday there and for the first time in their lives experienced women that apparently didn't find them repulsive or socially inept.

I posted an excerpt from BKK magazine detailing four incidents over four days of naked foreigners going crazy in Pattaya. None of you guys battered an eyelid, as if this was normal. You don't need a debate to ascertain whether Pattaya is a decent place to live. As I said in my very first post, just compare the news stories coming out of Pattaya on a daily basis to anywhere else in the country.

What has been proven beyond doubt in the debate is that Pattaya does not represent Thai culture or the average Thai person's experience of their country on a day-to-day basis. Neither does it represent the experience of the majority of foreigners living in Thailand. It is, by and large, a place where lost souls meet other souls, believing they are taking advantage of each other's misfortune.

I also think using the word 'haters' is misguided. It somewhat implies that people are jealous of those living in Pattaya. In truth, people don't hate, they pity the lost souls. They pity those who will die alone, those who will be bled of all their savings, those who will drown their inner sadness in the bottom of a glass every night for the remainder of their lives, surrounded by women who are happy to pour them another drink and take them one step closer to their maker.

It's also desperately sad for the women. Women who are daughters and sisters and mothers. Women who once had dreams like every other girl in the world; aspirations of a rewarding career and a man who loves and takes proper care of them. No girl dreams of sleeping with men twice or three times her age for a living when she gets older, or living in a town infested by the underbelly of society, for that matter. I salute many of these girls because although entirely misguided in their choice, they are willing to sell their soul, their identity, their culture, their moral compass down the river to try and give their kids a better life and better opportunities than they had. Sadly, that is rarely the case.

<Women who once had dreams like every other girl in the world; aspirations of a rewarding career and a man who loves and takes proper care of them.>

Seriously???????

Do you not know that the only alternative future the average bargirl had was a life of hardship in the sweatshops or the rice fields working for a pittance?

What country are you talking about? You don't seem to know anything about the reality for the Thai working class.

No one forces them to go to Pattaya, and they can leave if they don't like it. Many of them ARE looking for "a man who loves and takes proper care of them" having been knocked up and abandoned by their Thai BFs or husbands.

<not one Pattaya lover has successfully defended the den of iniquity against the accusation that, for the most part, Pattaya is a place where sad aging men go to take advantage of the abundance of misguided youth>

Doesn't need defending.

The aging men that you so obviously despise aren't sad in Pattaya- they are having the best time of their lives. If they were staying in whatever dump they could afford back "home" and just getting drunk or watching rubbish on tv every day they would be sad.

<selling their souls>

Do you believe that ALL prostitutes sell their souls, or is that reserved for Pattaya girls? What about the ones that work legally as prostitutes in NZ, Australia, the UK and the USA?

What about the ones that have young good looking guys in Pattaya, of which there are many, as customers. Is it OK if they aren't old and fat?

Edited October 19, 2013 by thaibeachlovers

[somtampet]

I don't think it was ever going to have much new to say but given that I got 30-40 likes its nice to see that others share my view of this city. The myopics, bigots and haters of Pattaya had their day in the sun and generally revealed themselves as people who see one thing and hate all things. Overall an entertaining diversion but, like my learned friend Mr. Worldwide, I agree its time to put this baby to bed until the next time!

As Kris Kristofferson said during an encore, "You might as well go home now, it don't get no better than this."

I think you are wrong. I have been following this thread from the beginning, and not one Pattaya lover has successfully defended the den of iniquity against the accusation that, for the most part, Pattaya is a place where sad aging men go to take advantage of the abundance of misguided youth selling their souls for what they believe will provide a better like for their parents, kids, themselves, whoever.

I won't debate the whole bar girl-hooker life thing here. But the fact is, seldom does the Pattaya story end well for the vendor or the buyer, thus the huge number of girls hooked on yaba and alcohol, and the number of sociapathic foreigners who end up jumping off a balcony, losing all their cash in one way or another or returning home spouting inaccuracies regarding Thai women and Thailand in general.

Not one person has made a successful case for wanting to live there other than for the 'hookers on tap' lifestyle. I'd go as far as to say that 97% of men who move there do so because they took a holiday there and for the first time in their lives experienced women that apparently didn't find them repulsive or socially inept.

I posted an excerpt from BKK magazine detailing four incidents over four days of naked foreigners going crazy in Pattaya. None of you guys battered an eyelid, as if this was normal. You don't need a debate to ascertain whether Pattaya is a decent place to live. As I said in my very first post, just compare the news stories coming out of Pattaya on a daily basis to anywhere else in the country.

What has been proven beyond doubt in the debate is that Pattaya does not represent Thai culture or the average Thai person's experience of their country on a day-to-day basis. Neither does it represent the experience of the majority of foreigners living in Thailand. It is, by and large, a place where lost souls meet other souls, believing they are taking advantage of each other's misfortune.

I also think using the word 'haters' is misguided. It somewhat implies that people are jealous of those living in Pattaya. In truth, people don't hate, they pity the lost souls. They pity those who will die alone, those who will be bled of all their savings, those who will drown their inner sadness in the bottom of a glass every night for the remainder of their lives, surrounded by women who are happy to pour them another drink and take them one step closer to their maker.

It's also desperately sad for the women. Women who are daughters and sisters and mothers. Women who once had dreams like every other girl in the world; aspirations of a rewarding career and a man who loves and takes proper care of them. No girl dreams of sleeping with men twice or three times her age for a living when she gets older, or living in a town infested by the underbelly of society, for that matter. I salute many of these girls because although entirely misguided in their choice, they are willing to sell their soul, their identity, their culture, their moral compass down the river to try and give their kids a better life and better opportunities than they had. Sadly, that is rarely the case.

A bit like Bangkok then???/

[thaibeachlovers]

I don't think it was ever going to have much new to say but given that I got 30-40 likes its nice to see that others share my view of this city. The myopics, bigots and haters of Pattaya had their day in the sun and generally revealed themselves as people who see one thing and hate all things. Overall an entertaining diversion but, like my learned friend Mr. Worldwide, I agree its time to put this baby to bed until the next time!

As Kris Kristofferson said during an encore, "You might as well go home now, it don't get no better than this."

I think you are wrong. I have been following this thread from the beginning, and not one Pattaya lover has successfully defended the den of iniquity against the accusation that, for the most part, Pattaya is a place where sad aging men go to take advantage of the abundance of misguided youth selling their souls for what they believe will provide a better like for their parents, kids, themselves, whoever.

I won't debate the whole bar girl-hooker life thing here. But the fact is, seldom does the Pattaya story end well for the vendor or the buyer, thus the huge number of girls hooked on yaba and alcohol, and the number of sociapathic foreigners who end up jumping off a balcony, losing all their cash in one way or another or returning home spouting inaccuracies regarding Thai women and Thailand in general.

Not one person has made a successful case for wanting to live there other than for the 'hookers on tap' lifestyle. I'd go as far as to say that 97% of men who move there do so because they took a holiday there and for the first time in their lives experienced women that apparently didn't find them repulsive or socially inept.

I posted an excerpt from BKK magazine detailing four incidents over four days of naked foreigners going crazy in Pattaya. None of you guys battered an eyelid, as if this was normal. You don't need a debate to ascertain whether Pattaya is a decent place to live. As I said in my very first post, just compare the news stories coming out of Pattaya on a daily basis to anywhere else in the country.

What has been proven beyond doubt in the debate is that Pattaya does not represent Thai culture or the average Thai person's experience of their country on a day-to-day basis. Neither does it represent the experience of the majority of foreigners living in Thailand. It is, by and large, a place where lost souls meet other souls, believing they are taking advantage of each other's misfortune.

I also think using the word 'haters' is misguided. It somewhat implies that people are jealous of those living in Pattaya. In truth, people don't hate, they pity the lost souls. They pity those who will die alone, those who will be bled of all their savings, those who will drown their inner sadness in the bottom of a glass every night for the remainder of their lives, surrounded by women who are happy to pour them another drink and take them one step closer to their maker.

It's also desperately sad for the women. Women who are daughters and sisters and mothers. Women who once had dreams like every other girl in the world; aspirations of a rewarding career and a man who loves and takes proper care of them. No girl dreams of sleeping with men twice or three times her age for a living when she gets older, or living in a town infested by the underbelly of society, for that matter. I salute many of these girls because although entirely misguided in their choice, they are willing to sell their soul, their identity, their culture, their moral compass down the river to try and give their kids a better life and better opportunities than they had. Sadly, that is rarely the case.

A bit like Bangkok then???/

and Hua Hin, and Chiang Mai, and Samui, and Phuket and every tourist town in Thailand, all of which have their bars and girls, not forgetting about Hat Yai which caters for the weekend trippers from Malaya.

[TheSpade]

The aging men that you so obviously despise aren't sad in Pattaya- they are having the best time of their lives. If they were staying in whatever dump they could afford back "home" and just getting drunk or watching rubbish on tv every day they would be sad.

Perhaps he meant 'sad' as in 'pathetic' and not unhappy?

A bit like Bangkok then???/

The RLD areas of BKK are a tiny part of the city and not what most visitors come for Bangkok now being the most visited city in the world.What do most people go to Pattaya for?

[kennypowers]

I don't think it was ever going to have much new to say but given that I got 30-40 likes its nice to see that others share my view of this city. The myopics, bigots and haters of Pattaya had their day in the sun and generally revealed themselves as people who see one thing and hate all things. Overall an entertaining diversion but, like my learned friend Mr. Worldwide, I agree its time to put this baby to bed until the next time!

As Kris Kristofferson said during an encore, "You might as well go home now, it don't get no better than this."

I think you are wrong. I have been following this thread from the beginning, and not one Pattaya lover has successfully defended the den of iniquity against the accusation that, for the most part, Pattaya is a place where sad aging men go to take advantage of the abundance of misguided youth selling their souls for what they believe will provide a better like for their parents, kids, themselves, whoever.

I won't debate the whole bar girl-hooker life thing here. But the fact is, seldom does the Pattaya story end well for the vendor or the buyer, thus the huge number of girls hooked on yaba and alcohol, and the number of sociapathic foreigners who end up jumping off a balcony, losing all their cash in one way or another or returning home spouting inaccuracies regarding Thai women and Thailand in general.

Not one person has made a successful case for wanting to live there other than for the 'hookers on tap' lifestyle. I'd go as far as to say that 97% of men who move there do so because they took a holiday there and for the first time in their lives experienced women that apparently didn't find them repulsive or socially inept.

I posted an excerpt from BKK magazine detailing four incidents over four days of naked foreigners going crazy in Pattaya. None of you guys battered an eyelid, as if this was normal. You don't need a debate to ascertain whether Pattaya is a decent place to live. As I said in my very first post, just compare the news stories coming out of Pattaya on a daily basis to anywhere else in the country.

What has been proven beyond doubt in the debate is that Pattaya does not represent Thai culture or the average Thai person's experience of their country on a day-to-day basis. Neither does it represent the experience of the majority of foreigners living in Thailand. It is, by and large, a place where lost souls meet other souls, believing they are taking advantage of each other's misfortune.

I also think using the word 'haters' is misguided. It somewhat implies that people are jealous of those living in Pattaya. In truth, people don't hate, they pity the lost souls. They pity those who will die alone, those who will be bled of all their savings, those who will drown their inner sadness in the bottom of a glass every night for the remainder of their lives, surrounded by women who are happy to pour them another drink and take them one step closer to their maker.

It's also desperately sad for the women. Women who are daughters and sisters and mothers. Women who once had dreams like every other girl in the world; aspirations of a rewarding career and a man who loves and takes proper care of them. No girl dreams of sleeping with men twice or three times her age for a living when she gets older, or living in a town infested by the underbelly of society, for that matter. I salute many of these girls because although entirely misguided in their choice, they are willing to sell their soul, their identity, their culture, their moral compass down the river to try and give their kids a better life and better opportunities than they had. Sadly, that is rarely the case.

<Women who once had dreams like every other girl in the world; aspirations of a rewarding career and a man who loves and takes proper care of them.>

Seriously???????

Do you not know that the only alternative future the average bargirl had was a life of hardship in the sweatshops or the rice fields working for a pittance?

What country are you talking about? You don't seem to know anything about the reality for the Thai working class.

No one forces them to go to Pattaya, and they can leave if they don't like it. Many of them ARE looking for "a man who loves and takes proper care of them" having been knocked up and abandoned by their Thai BFs or husbands.

<not one Pattaya lover has successfully defended the den of iniquity against the accusation that, for the most part, Pattaya is a place where sad aging men go to take advantage of the abundance of misguided youth>

Doesn't need defending.

The aging men that you so obviously despise aren't sad in Pattaya- they are having the best time of their lives. If they were staying in whatever dump they could afford back "home" and just getting drunk or watching rubbish on tv every day they would be sad.

<selling their souls>

Do you believe that ALL prostitutes sell their souls, or is that reserved for Pattaya girls? What about the ones that work legally as prostitutes in NZ, Australia, the UK and the USA?

What about the ones that have young good looking guys in Pattaya, of which there are many, as customers. Is it OK if they aren't old and fat?

And you think that alternative makes the job more glamourous? You think that because the other choices won't suffice it makes this the best one? Are they lucky? Is this a good career choice? FYI, I work with bar girls every week. I have done for 4 years. I also work with girls from the Thai, karaoke bar side. These are the ones you don't see - beyond the mini skirts and the smiles. The ones who get repeatedly raped and beaten up by pimps and loan sharks. The ones who fall pregnant and can't face the prospect of abortion. The ones who are abused at home, failed by society and then abused for money. The ones hooked on drugs, the alcoholics. The ones seeking refuge at shelters because their families don't want them around anymore having shamed the village that they are working in prostitution, even though it was the family they were trying to provide for. It is you who has no idea of the emotional scarring, the mental and physical abuse. It is you who has no idea of the construct of Thai society, if you did your argument wouldn't be so blind and lacking in depth. And yes, they are looking for a man who loves and takes proper care of them, but how jaded, lost and desperate does a woman have to be to do that among men in beer bars she wouldn't look twice at if she were offered the same opportunities that our children are.

Why don't you open your eyes, do some reading, a bit of truth seeking. Perhaps even help out and make a difference to someone's life? You, like so many others, have absolutely no idea.

In the majority of cases, until a bar girls is completely broken, she will never talk to you about rape, debt, drug addiction, her illegitimate kids, her abusive uncle, etc. Why? Well seeing as you know so much about the Thai working class, you tell me.

What it boils down to is this. The foreign sexpests would hate nothing more than for all these women to have far better opportunities, because then the dynamics would change. It's no fun in the UK or US sleeping with a high class hooker who runs her operation like a seasoned entrepreneur. The conquest is hers, not yours. She doesn't play the role, she sees herself as above you not below you. The dynamics don't suit your perversion. Yes, Thailand has prostitutes like this too, but these aren't the Beach road girls and seldom any of the bar girls. Nope, it's far more fun to treat a little farm girl like a dog because "they all f***ng love it". They were born to do this right? They're just hookers right? Don't fall in love with one just f*** them.

The oppressor always justifies his cause by stripping away the identity of the individual.

wake up.

[Jackson86]

No girl is born a prostitute. Pattaya girls are no exception. Not good to go to other people's country and insult their people this way. Prostitution is everywhere.

[somtampet]

The aging men that you so obviously despise aren't sad in Pattaya- they are having the best time of their lives. If they were staying in whatever dump they could afford back "home" and just getting drunk or watching rubbish on tv every day they would be sad.

Perhaps he meant 'sad' as in 'pathetic' and not unhappy?

A bit like Bangkok then???/

The RLD areas of BKK are a tiny part of the city and not what most visitors come for Bangkok now being the most visited city in the world.

What do most people go to Pattaya for?

sO U are from Bangkok then

[MrWorldwide]

I still cant understand why Russians take their kids to Patts - surely Hua Hin is more family-friendly ? Even the Chinese seem to think its fine to take their kids to a town which is still Sin City, regardless of the 'changing demographic' hyperbole. I know why single men go to Pattaya - and quite a few married men, no doubt - but I have no idea what attracts families. The overpriced seafood just isn't that good

I still think its the neon, and we all know who paid for that neon.

[TheSpade]

I've seen whole families walking down Soi Cowboy and couples with young kids. Wonder what they are thinking.

[Jackson86]

I still cant understand why Russians take their kids to Patts - surely Hua Hin is more family-friendly ? Even the Chinese seem to think its fine to take their kids to a town which is still Sin City, regardless of the 'changing demographic' hyperbole. I know why single men go to Pattaya - and quite a few married men, no doubt - but I have no idea what attracts families. The overpriced seafood just isn't that good

I still think its the neon, and we all know who paid for that neon.

I'm chinese. Well we have a chinese belief "兼收并蓄" that it's good to let kids learn about the harsh realities rather than not talk about it. Hope this helps your understanding. Yep.

[thaibeachlovers]

The aging men that you so obviously despise aren't sad in Pattaya- they are having the best time of their lives. If they were staying in whatever dump they could afford back "home" and just getting drunk or watching rubbish on tv every day they would be sad.

Perhaps he meant 'sad' as in 'pathetic' and not unhappy?

A bit like Bangkok then???/

The RLD areas of BKK are a tiny part of the city and not what most visitors come for Bangkok now being the most visited city in the world.

What do most people go to Pattaya for?

You have modified the quotes so as to remove the names of those that posted them, which isn't, I believe, permitted.

Anyway < 'sad' as in 'pathetic' and not unhappy?>.

Whatever, Thai people don't give a rat's bottom about the girls' wellbeing, so why put the onus on farangs to be better. End of the day, the girl gets paid, the man gets happy- win win for both. I used to do a horrid job that made me stressed and sad, but it didn't pay that much considering what I did, while the girls might get taken out for dinners in nice restaurants, taken on nice holidays, and end up with a bucket load of money.

Doesn't seem that bad to me.

Pathetic would more aptly apply to sad old men hanging around shopping malls in some awful cold souless western city, with nothing to look forward to before they die.

<The RLD areas of BKK are a tiny part of the city>

The RLD of Pattaya is a tiny part of the city.

FYI, Pattaya is huge, and Naklua ( south end ), Beach, Second, Buakau, Sunee and Walking St are not that large. It is possible to visit Pattaya and never see a bargirl, unless you want to.

[thaibeachlovers]

I don't think it was ever going to have much new to say but given that I got 30-40 likes its nice to see that others share my view of this city. The myopics, bigots and haters of Pattaya had their day in the sun and generally revealed themselves as people who see one thing and hate all things. Overall an entertaining diversion but, like my learned friend Mr. Worldwide, I agree its time to put this baby to bed until the next time!

As Kris Kristofferson said during an encore, "You might as well go home now, it don't get no better than this."

I think you are wrong. I have been following this thread from the beginning, and not one Pattaya lover has successfully defended the den of iniquity against the accusation that, for the most part, Pattaya is a place where sad aging men go to take advantage of the abundance of misguided youth selling their souls for what they believe will provide a better like for their parents, kids, themselves, whoever.

I won't debate the whole bar girl-hooker life thing here. But the fact is, seldom does the Pattaya story end well for the vendor or the buyer, thus the huge number of girls hooked on yaba and alcohol, and the number of sociapathic foreigners who end up jumping off a balcony, losing all their cash in one way or another or returning home spouting inaccuracies regarding Thai women and Thailand in general.

Not one person has made a successful case for wanting to live there other than for the 'hookers on tap' lifestyle. I'd go as far as to say that 97% of men who move there do so because they took a holiday there and for the first time in their lives experienced women that apparently didn't find them repulsive or socially inept.

I posted an excerpt from BKK magazine detailing four incidents over four days of naked foreigners going crazy in Pattaya. None of you guys battered an eyelid, as if this was normal. You don't need a debate to ascertain whether Pattaya is a decent place to live. As I said in my very first post, just compare the news stories coming out of Pattaya on a daily basis to anywhere else in the country.

What has been proven beyond doubt in the debate is that Pattaya does not represent Thai culture or the average Thai person's experience of their country on a day-to-day basis. Neither does it represent the experience of the majority of foreigners living in Thailand. It is, by and large, a place where lost souls meet other souls, believing they are taking advantage of each other's misfortune.

I also think using the word 'haters' is misguided. It somewhat implies that people are jealous of those living in Pattaya. In truth, people don't hate, they pity the lost souls. They pity those who will die alone, those who will be bled of all their savings, those who will drown their inner sadness in the bottom of a glass every night for the remainder of their lives, surrounded by women who are happy to pour them another drink and take them one step closer to their maker.

It's also desperately sad for the women. Women who are daughters and sisters and mothers. Women who once had dreams like every other girl in the world; aspirations of a rewarding career and a man who loves and takes proper care of them. No girl dreams of sleeping with men twice or three times her age for a living when she gets older, or living in a town infested by the underbelly of society, for that matter. I salute many of these girls because although entirely misguided in their choice, they are willing to sell their soul, their identity, their culture, their moral compass down the river to try and give their kids a better life and better opportunities than they had. Sadly, that is rarely the case.

<Women who once had dreams like every other girl in the world; aspirations of a rewarding career and a man who loves and takes proper care of them.>

Seriously???????

Do you not know that the only alternative future the average bargirl had was a life of hardship in the sweatshops or the rice fields working for a pittance?

What country are you talking about? You don't seem to know anything about the reality for the Thai working class.

No one forces them to go to Pattaya, and they can leave if they don't like it. Many of them ARE looking for "a man who loves and takes proper care of them" having been knocked up and abandoned by their Thai BFs or husbands.

<not one Pattaya lover has successfully defended the den of iniquity against the accusation that, for the most part, Pattaya is a place where sad aging men go to take advantage of the abundance of misguided youth>

Doesn't need defending.

The aging men that you so obviously despise aren't sad in Pattaya- they are having the best time of their lives. If they were staying in whatever dump they could afford back "home" and just getting drunk or watching rubbish on tv every day they would be sad.

<selling their souls>

Do you believe that ALL prostitutes sell their souls, or is that reserved for Pattaya girls? What about the ones that work legally as prostitutes in NZ, Australia, the UK and the USA?

What about the ones that have young good looking guys in Pattaya, of which there are many, as customers. Is it OK if they aren't old and fat?

And you think that alternative makes the job more glamourous? You think that because the other choices won't suffice it makes this the best one? Are they lucky? Is this a good career choice? FYI, I work with bar girls every week. I have done for 4 years. I also work with girls from the Thai, karaoke bar side. These are the ones you don't see - beyond the mini skirts and the smiles. The ones who get repeatedly raped and beaten up by pimps and loan sharks. The ones who fall pregnant and can't face the prospect of abortion. The ones who are abused at home, failed by society and then abused for money. The ones hooked on drugs, the alcoholics. The ones seeking refuge at shelters because their families don't want them around anymore having shamed the village that they are working in prostitution, even though it was the family they were trying to provide for. It is you who has no idea of the emotional scarring, the mental and physical abuse. It is you who has no idea of the construct of Thai society, if you did your argument wouldn't be so blind and lacking in depth. And yes, they are looking for a man who loves and takes proper care of them, but how jaded, lost and desperate does a woman have to be to do that among men in beer bars she wouldn't look twice at if she were offered the same opportunities that our children are.

Why don't you open your eyes, do some reading, a bit of truth seeking. Perhaps even help out and make a difference to someone's life? You, like so many others, have absolutely no idea.

In the majority of cases, until a bar girls is completely broken, she will never talk to you about rape, debt, drug addiction, her illegitimate kids, her abusive uncle, etc. Why? Well seeing as you know so much about the Thai working class, you tell me.

What it boils down to is this. The foreign sexpests would hate nothing more than for all these women to have far better opportunities, because then the dynamics would change. It's no fun in the UK or US sleeping with a high class hooker who runs her operation like a seasoned entrepreneur. The conquest is hers, not yours. She doesn't play the role, she sees herself as above you not below you. The dynamics don't suit your perversion. Yes, Thailand has prostitutes like this too, but these aren't the Beach road girls and seldom any of the bar girls. Nope, it's far more fun to treat a little farm girl like a dog because "they all f***ng love it". They were born to do this right? They're just hookers right? Don't fall in love with one just f*** them.

The oppressor always justifies his cause by stripping away the identity of the individual.

wake up.

<. I also work with girls from the Thai, karaoke bar side. > <The ones who get repeatedly raped and beaten up by pimps> <These are the ones you don't see >

Of course, as you are talking about the girls in the THAI sex industry. So far, this thread has been about the farang bar scene, and not many farangs indulge in the karaoke or body massage side which have vastly more Thai customers than farang. So please be clear about which industry you are talking about.

< The ones who are abused at home, failed by society and then abused for money. The ones hooked on drugs, the alcoholics. The ones seeking refuge at shelters>

Nothing there that couldn't apply to any country in the world. I was pretty abused by the system for my entire working life, as were all those other low end workers, but no one went on the internet and made impassioned pleas for our "liberation". Life sucks for the vast majority of humans, so why choose one tiny and not very significant place to get worked up about, rather than sorting out the many proplems in your own home country?

I never said it was a glamorous career option. Most of the girls do it for a couple/ few years and then move on. I could meet some girls one holiday, but after a couple of years they would be gone, and I never saw them again. I did know one that was working in Agogo for about 6 years, but she was a rarity. Good grief, it's just a casual job, after all.

What is true, is that the ones I knew preferred that job to working in a building site or a sweat shop, or even worse, as a maid for a Thai family. However, millions of poor Thai girls do choose the hard options.

< And yes, they are looking for a man who loves and takes proper care of them, but how jaded, lost and desperate does a woman have to be to do that among men in beer bars she wouldn't look twice at if she were offered the same opportunities that our children are.>

Well, being abused, raped, impregnated and abandoned by her own family/ partner would be somewhere to start. They go TO the bars to look for a better life, not AFTER they start working there.

BTW they DON'T get "offered the same opportunities that our children are". This is Thailand, not a western country, and it is what it is till the THAIS change it, not you, not me, not The Spade, the THAIS. You'd be better off talking to Thai politicians about your moral position and trying to convince them to change the country than come on here and try ( failing miserably ) to make us feel guilty.

<The foreign sexpests would hate nothing more than for all these women to have far better opportunities>

I'm sure you can do better than spout BS propaganda. Even if it were true ( and how many "sexpests" have you actually surveyed about that? ) it's Thailand, and they DON'T have better opportunities. Just how many hairdressers do you think Thailand can support?

The people that REALLY don't want those women to have far better opportunities are the hiso THAI people that rely on poor people to exploit so THEY can get rich.

<Perhaps even help out and make a difference to someone's life?>

After 26 years tending to the sick and dying, I don't need to make an effort to make a difference to people's lives. I did that everyday at work. BTW, it'd be hard not to learn something about human nature down in the blood and shit end of health care.

And, in Thailand, I think my millions in baht spent here have also made a difference to the low level Thais that I have associated with. My money spent in Thailand goes into the pockets of low end Thais, not to some international company or hiso Thais.

Edited October 20, 2013 by thaibeachlovers

[TheSpade]

Anyway < 'sad' as in 'pathetic' and not unhappy?>.

Whatever, Thai people don't give a rat's bottom about the girls' wellbeing, so why put the onus on farangs to be better. End of the day, the girl gets paid, the man gets happy- win win for both. I used to do a horrid job that made me stressed and sad, but it didn't pay that much considering what I did, while the girls might get taken out for dinners in nice restaurants, taken on nice holidays, and end up with a bucket load of money.

Doesn't seem that bad to me.

Pathetic would more aptly apply to sad old men hanging around shopping malls in some awful cold souless western city, with nothing to look forward to before they die.

<The RLD areas of BKK are a tiny part of the city>

The RLD of Pattaya is a tiny part of the city.

FYI, Pattaya is huge, and Naklua ( south end ), Beach, Second, Buakau, Sunee and Walking St are not that large. It is possible to visit Pattaya and never see a bargirl, unless you want to.

So if the Thai's done care, why should you eh?

At the end of the day it just boils down to you being happy as long as you get your end away.

Pathetic would more aptly apply to sad old men hanging around shopping malls in some awful cold souless western city, with nothing to look forward to before they die.

Yeah get them all over here and let them have their wicked way with young women for money. As long as these old blokes aren't sad it's all good who cares if the girls they are having sex with are, eh?

[MrWorldwide]

TBL, the key to dealing with Spade is to simply nod and smile whilst backing away slowly.

[HardenedSoul]

Pathetic would more aptly apply to sad old men hanging around shopping malls in some awful cold souless western city, with nothing to look forward to before they die.

BS

There are untold older men who are living perfectly fulfilling lives in those "cold, soulless" Western cities.

Not every man's happiness revolves around the regularity with which he swings his leg over.

[Naam]

TBL, the key to dealing with Spade is to simply nod and smile whilst backing away slowly.

the key to deal with people who lead a sh*tty life, boast about it but at the same time think they can lecture others, violates forum rules.

[Naam]

Pathetic would more aptly apply to sad old men hanging around shopping malls in some awful cold souless western city, with nothing to look forward to before they die.

BS

There are untold older men who are living perfectly fulfilling lives in those "cold, soulless" Western cities.

Not every man's happiness revolves around the regularity with which he swings his leg over.

pure refined "BS" is the assumption...

....that the primary interest and happiness of some old man with a small pension, which might enable him to vegetate in a western country, but enables him to have a more comfortable lifestyle in Thailand is to "swing regularly his leg over".

Edited October 20, 2013 by Naam

[HardenedSoul]

Pathetic would more aptly apply to sad old men hanging around shopping malls in some awful cold souless western city, with nothing to look forward to before they die.

BS

There are untold older men who are living perfectly fulfilling lives in those "cold, soulless" Western cities.

Not every man's happiness revolves around the regularity with which he swings his leg over.

pure refined "BS" is the assumption...

....that the primary interest and happiness of some old man with a small pension, which might enable him to vegetate in a western country, but enables him to have a more comfortable lifestyle in Thailand is to "swing regularly his leg over".

No one was making that assumption although one could be forgiven for doing so since we are discussing - wait for it - Pattaya.

[nong38]

Have just returned from our little jaunt to Patters so here are a few obervations, the roads need repairing, the pavements also same as most of Thailand and I was surprised to see different prices at both KFC and Macdonalds at different locations. Apart from that we had a splendid time, had some good times round the pool and down the shops and we expect to be back in March.

[Iforbach]

well said !!!

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[GinBoy2]

Sorry if I've missed any pertinent facts, couldn't be bothered to read through 10 pages of what was probably repetitive 'yes it is, no it isn't' kinda stuff. Why do people hate Pattaya. Well my friend, read various comments about Isaan and feel yourself lucky, comments about Isaan tend to be past hate outright bile pouring out of the keyboard warriors more like. Pattaya, well I've visited it twice. Can't say I liked it, sorry but its true, the sexpat industry is a little bit too in your face for my tastes, plus if anyone else asked me if I wanted a suit made, needed viagra, or called me hansum man I think I would have screamed. All this of course while I'm walking with my wife and two sons, its a little extreme! Traffic is horrendous, on a par if not worse than Bangkok, I seem to remember it taking nearly an hour to drive, what I think was less than 10 miles. The beach as I recall wasn't too bad, certainly better than the cesspool that Patong beach has become.

We were visiting my wife's sister so my experience wasn't limited to walking street and the 'strip', but the whole place just isn't very pretty to my eyes. If I did want that urban lifestyle I'd prefer to live in Bangkok. But at the end of the day, its each to his own, we all want/like different things in life

[Stradavarius37]

If whoremongers want to be whoremongers, there is nothing wrong with that. Live and let live. Why resurrect this 8 month old thread?

[choochoo]

So many motosai's not being rented. How do the operators stay in business?

[GinBoy2]

If whoremongers want to be whoremongers, there is nothing wrong with that. Live and let live. Why resurrect this 8 month old thread?

Slow newsday maybe, you know TVF keyboard warriors need a good dose of raw meat. LOL

[Stradavarius37]

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If whoremongers want to be whoremongers, there is nothing wrong with that. Live and let live. Why resurrect this 8 month old thread?

Slow newsday maybe, you know TVF keyboard warriors need a good dose of raw meat. LOL

Why not make up a new "Pattaya is full of scum and villainy" thread - this one is stale...