Conundrum - When to retire? How much money is enough?

[freejack]

Let's say you are reaching 56 years old, just getting your house paid off and are able to work and save about $6,000 a month. Your health is good. You have a small pension, you have government social security, and a healthy chunk of money in your private retirement account (IRA).

Would you retire?

It is asking how long is a piece of string.

But for each person, when did you feel it was time to retire? If you have, you are pretty sure, enough money to retire fairly comfortably in Thailand/SE Asia, and you don't spent too much (relatively frugal), then when is the right time?

It's hard to pass up the $6,000+ a month, but then you may feel you want to go out and enjoy life, your retirement, doing something else.

There is no right answer, of course. Some people draw a line. They have a goal they have planned for years. They pick a financial goal and consider that enough wealth to have.

Others may wake up and realize they don't want to go to the office anymore. They know they have some money, maybe they have reached their financial goals.

If Thailand is the goal and to be relatively young at 56 and active, it seems best to retire once certain financial goals for wealth have been achieved. To keep working and saving more money is more for additional security for someone who is ultra-conservative.

[freejack]

Seems not possible to edit posts once someone as viewed?

Anyway, should have kept the topic more high-level.

I've always wondered why people decide to retire when they do.

I knew coworkers at work who got disgruntled or tired of everything and decided they had enough with the job. Some of them left not so happy and left the company on a sour note after so many years, or decades even, of work.

The decision to retire often seems to come at the crossroads of being tired of it all and feeling they have enough money (or not) to give it up and be done with their careers.

[Dr Robert]

being a slave to money is a hard habit to break, but once you do, living on $2,000 a month in LOS seems quite luxurious. the hardest part is letting go-once you have made the leap of faith, you wonder why you didn't do it sooner. jump.

[trainman34014]

This topic has been discussed on numerous occasions.

Generally i think it's about your own personal comfort zone inside your own skin. If you feel the financial situation is right and you are ready for a life changing decision then you are ready to retire; and make no mistake, it is a life changing decision, and if you are considering moving away from your homeland it is an even bigger challenge.

Everyone is different in their approach to things; i did it over a period of time with careful planning but i know full well that some just arrive in a kind of 'no mans land' wilderness and plonk down roots accordingly. Each to his own.

[David48]

I'm soon to have TWINS ... I ain't ever gonna retire ... I'm just gonna be tired.

What an end to a humsum man's life on Earth ... got my first worry wrinkle last week

Enough money ... pfff ... there ain't ever going to be enough ...

Oh ... we're talking about you! I got caught up with my impending calamity.

Why retire ... just find something you like doing that pays an income and work will never feel like work again.

Go Farming ...

.

[IMA_FARANG]

For me it was an easy decision.

I had an accident, spent two weeks in hospital, and when I got out of hospital it became clear I couldn't do my job as well as I wanted. Medical complications from the accident

So I say, "God gave me a hint it was time to do something else".

I was 64 then.

It was kind of God to remind me, it was getting close to "time".

[Jasun]

Own home + savings + pension + social security = retire now.

[rijb]

Grab the $6000 / month for as long as you can. It will come in handy.

[tingtong]

If Thailand is your goal to retire, then my best advice, to make sure your retirement income is calculated in THB not in US$, or Pound, or Euro, or whatever else.

THB's exchange rate can and probably will change a lot in the next 2-3 decades a now 56 yrs old can easily live as retired here.

( and inflation can just magnify this).

Take those who retire here between 1997-2002 for example....guess they at least feel the pain, and probably many had to leave.

If the mentioned 56 yrs old doesnt have the unstoppable panic rush for 20 yrs old bargirls, i dont think he should give up on lots the lots of savings just yet, and put in maybe that next 3-4 yrs till 60, thus have some extra emergency funds entitled strictly for beaten retired vs.bargirl/thai wife scenario.

[ExpatJ]

If i was single then retiring on 5,000 $ per month would be my minimum (assuming health insurance covered already). But im married so aiming for 10,000- 13,000 $ per month (i have about 20 years to reach my target...)- company pension, annuity, stock dividends, rental income possibly- i dont quality for a government pension/SS but my wife does.

One thing to consider is stability of pension income- a company defined benefit pension, social/govt pension and annuities gives peace of mind- no need to stress about money running out if you find yourself living into your 70s-80s-90s.

Edited October 11, 2013 by ExpatJ

[pmarlin]

Still working age 56 and getting social security. Just how are you doing that?

[David48]

If you are going down the budget route of navel contemplation ... you could do worse then refer to £10,000 / $16,000 how long (will it last me in Thailand) personally ... ?

Lot's of guys knocking themselves out there.

[soi41]

Grab the $6000 / month for as long as you can. It will come in handy.

Yes eventually it will enable you to buy the "diamond-package" from the funeral home!!

JUMP!!

[Naam]

Grab the $6000 / month for as long as you can. It will come in handy.

especially handy for those who arrange your funeral.

[bocceball1]

“Somebody is born.
Somebody goes to school.
Somebody learns to conform.
Somebody types a CV.
Somebody gets a job.
Somebody follows orders.
Somebody gets a golden watch.
And then, eventually,
Somebody dies.
And, a Nobody is buried.”

- Mokokoma Moklonoana

[JoeThePoster]

I started planning my retirement, then I remembered that I do nothing now.

[Pacificperson]

I retired a week ago today at age 63. I am happy about it.

Edited October 11, 2013 by Pacificperson

[FiftyTwo]

If i was single then retiring on 5,000 $ per month would be my minimum (assuming health insurance covered already). But im married so aiming for 10,000- 13,000 $ per month (i have about 20 years to reach my target...)- company pension, annuity, stock dividends, rental income possibly- i dont quality for a government pension/SS but my wife does.

One thing to consider is stability of pension income- a company defined benefit pension, social/govt pension and annuities gives peace of mind- no need to stress about money running out if you find yourself living into your 70s-80s-90s.

Chances of you being divorced before then (about 50%) and losing most of your retirement pension/savings are high.

Chances of you dying before then are better (about 25%).

Good luck with your plans.

[David48]

I retired a week ago today at age 63. I am happy about it.

Fantastic News ...

Just quietly ... he's one of the real nice guys here ...

.

[scobie redux]

I semi-retired in January, aged 48. By semi retired, I mean jumped out of the corporate rat race. SInce then I did a small three month consulting project in HK earlier in the year, and I've since taken on a consulting project in Phnom Penh. If this continues then I will be effectively working 5-6 months a year for the next few years, but only in Asia, and relaxing for the rest of the time.

I love it.

I can generate around 170-180k baht a month from my savings and investments without touching the capital, and will be able to access my personal pension fund in six years, which will increase the income by another 50k. But I touch none of this money, and reinvest it instead. When I'm not working, I live off the money I make during my productive months, spend a bit of time relaxing and half-heartedly put out feelers for the next project.

[ExpatJ]

If i was single then retiring on 5,000 $ per month would be my minimum (assuming health insurance covered already). But im married so aiming for 10,000- 13,000 $ per month (i have about 20 years to reach my target...)- company pension, annuity, stock dividends, rental income possibly- i dont quality for a government pension/SS but my wife does.

One thing to consider is stability of pension income- a company defined benefit pension, social/govt pension and annuities gives peace of mind- no need to stress about money running out if you find yourself living into your 70s-80s-90s.

Chances of you being divorced before then (about 50%) and losing most of your retirement pension/savings are high.

Chances of you dying before then are better (about 25%).

Good luck with your plans.

You are a bundle of laughs ;-) I don't know what sort of lifestyle you lead, but the average age of death of westerners is still in the 70s and increasing every year. Mind you, i am still considering early semi-retirement at 55, just working a few months a year from then until 60 or so. Divorce, yes- who knows, but my wife works and earns slightly more than me so a divorce settlement would primarily be me paying for my kids expenses, and i have no problem handing over what ever that may be- happy to.

[SickOfEm]

For most folk total retirement with no income whatsoever is out of the question in this day and age, so...

Save for most of your life then retire and possibly drop down dead due to age or exhaustion (what was the point). Alternatively create an income from your homeland and bugger off to wherever it is you want to at whatever age you see fit!

Better than retiring here at 60+ and being bitter that you "should of done it years ago".

[gerry1011]

Think about your happiness.

Are you just bored of working at your present position, or is your goal to be happier in your life?

If you retire, what is it that will make you happy?

Can you do what you really want and reach happiness with your revenues once you retire?

I "retired" rather young with a substantial revenue.

But I keep my life busy and full of activities that make me (and others) happy.

These activities enrich my life a lot but some are also much more expensive than to stay on a balcony and look at the mountains or visit beer bars till death comes....

If retiring can make you happier, do it!

Life is short. We better live it while we can.

But do not miscalculate... Some people can be happy with very little, but personally I do not think you can be happy if your finances can't cover what you really want... And the amount varies a lot from person to person.

[scobie redux]

For most folk total retirement with no income whatsoever is out of the question in this day and age, so...

Save for most of your life then retire and possibly drop down dead due to age or exhaustion (what was the point). Alternatively create an income from your homeland and bugger off to wherever it is you want to at whatever age you see fit!

Better than retiring here at 60+ and being bitter that you "should of done it years ago".

Well blow me down. When you explain it like that, it makes me wonder why everyone didn't think of that idea and just do it.

[ExpatOilWorker]

I am also contemplating retirement and the math looks as follow:

Total savings required = current spending x (Estimated life expectancy – retirement age)

$3,000 per month x 12 x (85 – 55) = $1,080,000

The logic is to have the inflation neutral savings to maintain a $3,000 (2013) purchasing power.

[FiftyTwo]

If i was single then retiring on 5,000 $ per month would be my minimum (assuming health insurance covered already). But im married so aiming for 10,000- 13,000 $ per month (i have about 20 years to reach my target...)- company pension, annuity, stock dividends, rental income possibly- i dont quality for a government pension/SS but my wife does.

One thing to consider is stability of pension income- a company defined benefit pension, social/govt pension and annuities gives peace of mind- no need to stress about money running out if you find yourself living into your 70s-80s-90s.

Chances of you being divorced before then (about 50%) and losing most of your retirement pension/savings are high.

Chances of you dying before then are better (about 25%).

Good luck with your plans.

You are a bundle of laughs ;-) I don't know what sort of lifestyle you lead, but the average age of death of westerners is still in the 70s and increasing every year. Mind you, i am still considering early semi-retirement at 55, just working a few months a year from then until 60 or so. Divorce, yes- who knows, but my wife works and earns slightly more than me so a divorce settlement would primarily be me paying for my kids expenses, and i have no problem handing over what ever that may be- happy to.

I agree average age of death is in 70s (79 UK, 71 Thailand), so half the people die before their 70s, and a quarter of people die before their 60s. That's what average means ......

Also, is your wife saving and accumulation pension as much as you are?

Women often don't bother to save as much, in which case she will be having half of yours on divorce, along with all the house.

Edited October 11, 2013 by FiftyTwo

[GuestHouse]

I don't look at retirement as a simple decision to stop doing what I am doing.

There is of course the financial plan that needs to be in place, that's a long term issue, it sounds as thought the OP has his in place or at least well on the way.

But there is often, almost always, a problem with retirement funding and early retirement - Most retirement plans are designed for retirement at 60+ and will incur penalties if retirement is earlier than that.

These may be deductions from rates paid by formal pension plans, but also the longer term inflation on fixed income or cash/asset savings. An extra 5 of 10 years of income to provide or an extra 5 to 10 years of inflation impacting your income can be a big hit.

You need to think very carefully about that, especially if you are liquidating your main assets or drawing your main pension income early.

Perhaps most frustrating of all is having a large pension pot which you can't touch, or can only get your hands on if you accept penalties - My own pension fund savings are exactly in that position - a very substantial income which I can't get my hands on until I'm 60 unless I accept penalties for doing so.

I'm not planning to retire right now so can sit that one out.

But here's the danger.

This forum (not a criticism of TVF) is, like the expat community, stalked by people terming themselves IFA's or Financial Consultants who look for guys in the position of having pension funds they can't get their hands on right now, and then offer to help them crack their pension funds for immediate access - I have personal friend who went the QROPS route with one of these outfits and who is now watching his life's savings get pissshed down the drain.

So please, anyone even considering accessing their pension fund with the help of a expat IFA or Financial Consultant - get yourself over to the TVF Jobs, Economy, Finance Forum and ask for advise - There's a whole bunch of guys there who will give you very good advice from personal experience and give you ample warning of the traps and scams. Read and take heed.

The other penalty you pay is that lost income, in the OPs case $6000 a month saved. Flip that to $2000 a month spent and the swing in your income is -$8000 a month.

By no means do I suggest you keep on working for ever saving $6000 a month (or whatever any individual saves per month) but here's the observation.

You've worked all your life to build a home, pay for your family, feed clothe, school your kids ( a life well lived) you've built some capital, slowly but it has built.

Now your bills are out of the way your savings rate rockets - you have a chance now to consolidate what you have built. Rather than start drawing down on your assets, built a bit more - aim at getting to the point where you could perhaps live for 2 years or so without turning to your pension.

If you work another two years you can save $140,000 - that's two yeas not drawing your pension, and $140,000 would keep you comfortably from 58 until your pension comes in.

Don't just save, spend some of it - Don't buy stuff, pay for experiences, holidays, things to take you away from work.

Make a plan for 'Life" in retirement, try a few things out that you've always wanted to do. Maybe you'll spend a fair bit, that savings might drop to $100,000 in the next two years, but you'll enjoy yourself on the way. And you'll only be helping your long term financial security.

You are nearly there, two more years, plan those right, spend some of your income, enjoy yourself and make the retirement plan you need.

Don't throw away the income, liquidate assets and then think - what next?

What next will be boredom or you putting your energy into what will almost inevitably wind up as somebody else helping you burn through your assets.

[FiftyTwo]

But here's the danger.

This forum (not a criticism of TVF) is, like the expat community, stalked by people terming themselves IFA's or Financial Consultants who look for guys in the position of having pension funds they can't get their hands on right now, and then offer to help them crack their pension funds for immediate access - I have personal friend who went the QROPS route with one of these outfits and who is now watching his life's savings get pissshed down the drain.

So please, anyone even considering accessing their pension fund with the help of a expat IFA or Financial Consultant - get yourself over to the TVF Jobs, Economy, Finance Forum and ask for advise - There's a whole bunch of guys there who will give you very good advice from personal experience and give you ample warning of the traps and scams. Read and take heed.

Yep, I totally agree,

You must never take any financial advice from anyone outside your home country.

You should also never mix your IFA, trader/dealer and management companies over different countries.

As no one country will take responsibility if anything goes wrong, and you just get passed around.

For example, IFA in Thailand + Trader/dealer in IOM + management in Spain = financial disaster.

If you are from the UK, best to keep everything in the UK.

[rijb]

Grab the $6000 / month for as long as you can. It will come in handy.

Yes eventually it will enable you to buy the "diamond-package" from the funeral home!! width=19 alt=whistling.gif>

JUMP!! width=25 alt=thumbsup.gif>

... says the crowd from below, to the guy on top of the building.

You can be young without money but you can’t be old without it.
 --- Tennessee Williams

[GuestHouse]

For the record, my own plan is to ease back rather than retire fully, I enjoy my work and I enjoy the chance to take part in helping young people develop themselves and their careers. I'm back at school studying again, chasing the cobwebs out and getting qualifications which will help me leverage my experience in different directions as I get older.

I see retirement less as a destination and more of a journey, health permitting I plan to enjoy the trip.