Farang-Thai road accident and discrimination

[kangeroo]

Hello , some years back I had a small accident in the town of pai on my way to city hall anyway the guy that hit me was clearly in the wrong and his car was not in great shape but at the police station and after a lot of talk the police told me to hand over 10 ,000

Bht or there would be more problems ,when I asked him why I was was wrong he told me if I was not in Thailand the accident would not have happened .

Cheers.

[BKKBrit]

Two years ago on a wet day, coming out of a soi and crossing a 2 lane road to turn right. The right-to-left lane was gridlocked and the two cars to my right stopped to let me edge out. I did so slowly and stopped to wait for a chance to turn into the opposite lane. It was then I saw a motorcyclist barrelling down between the two cars that had stopped for me and he lost control. He came off and the motorbike slid and ended up wedged under my driver's door. Right in front of me on the opposite side of the road was a cop who actually saw it happen. He stopped the traffic on the other side to let me come out - after we had yanked the bike out from under the car.

The motorcyclist was ok. Just a bit shaken and bruised. He knew he was in the wrong and was consistently saying sorry and wai-ing me. The cop wasn't interested and just started making a report. The motorcyclist was in his 50s and earning his living as a messenger. He had a helmet on. I actually felt sorry for him and bought him a drink from the 7-11 and sat and chatted to him whilst waiting for my insurance rep to arrive.

Insurance chap came. Motorcycle was dinged a little. My car (a BMW) had a thump and deep gouges and I knew this would cost several thousand to fix up. Insurance chap spoke to the police officer who said yes...the motorcyclist was wrong, I was in the right but he wouldn't put that in his report. He 'suggested' that because I had a beemer and full insurance that I take a knock on the head for this. I called my broker who spoke to the insurance company. They said given the amount of time and paperwork etc that I should agree to this. They will cover me and the bike and I might lose my no-claims bonus next time round. I agreed. All settled amicably. The insurance company took care of it all and my premium bounced up Bht1,000 in the following year.

Speaking to my Thai friends after this, one common answer came through - regardless of who is right or wrong - a motorbike in Thailand is never at fault and you just let your insurance company sort it out. Something about you should always give way to motorbikes.

The repairs to my car came to Bht34,000 or something plus the cost of the repairs to the bike..I have no idea what that was.

About a month later, there was a knock on the door from my condo security. He said there was a man downstairs wanting to speak to me. Went down and it was the motorcyclist. He had a bottle of 100 Pipers for me as a token of thanks for taking the blame. He still had a job and was being a lot more careful on the roads.

So maybe there is such a thing as goodwill karma

[pbfisher]

Get a lawyer, the Thai lawyers can be quite inexpensive and often do a good job.

If you try a lawyer and it doesn't work out get another one. When you find one that is good stick with them.

So many Farangs here talk like they are drowning in a sea of indifference and hostility, it doesn't need to be so.

[MRTELLYOUSTRAIGHT]

My Thai friends jibe me sometimes they think I can't drive a car. When I explain this to them, and tell them I was driving a car when they were riding around on buffalos in the provinces

That must of gone down a treat.

[nongsangcity]

I was standing outside a bank last year waiting for my wife to deposit some money....the road is 6 lanes wide 3 in each direction and a middle gap between the 3 lanes....parked on the far side road a way from me a pick up...with 2 people inside....a motorist comes from the other direction cut across his 3 lanes then the middle gap and cut across the other side of the road now hes going the wrong way down a main road he clips the parked car on the parked car rear bumper...no real damage to the parked car but the moving car is badly scratched and dented on the driver side the whole side of the vehicle.....so the driver has crossed 7 lanes in total and hit a parked car.....the driver of the car was a young thai man....the people in the parked car are a swiss man and his young son..every one is ok the swiss mans car has a tiny dent on his rear bumper....the thai car is a mess....any way they shake hands and even have a little hug....all is ok...the thai man goes into a shop buy a few things then back into his car and off he drives........10 mins later iam still waiting for my wife and the swiss man is sat back in his car...at this moment the damaged thai car turns up at high speed with the parents of the thai driver....all hell lets loose...the mother is screaming in broken English...you f---ing falang so and so....demanding to see the swiss mans driving license and proof of insurance etc ..the swiss guy is now in total shock....at this time my wife comes out of the bank so I got her to explain to the family that her son has cut across 7 lanes and hit a parked car...and its her sons fault 100%...she not having any of it its the farangs fault....she calls the police , they turn up I tell them what I had seen.....they were satisfied it was nothing to do the parked pick up truck owned by the swiss man who has a full thai licence and number 1 insurance....fair play to the police they told the thais to go home as It was the young man fault.........

[dotpoom]

Thank you Huahin62

Maybe discrimination was the wrong word to use. I suppose it came to mind when the police told my insurance guy that the woman had not attended the police station when called for by the police...."because she wasn't ready". ....Immediately I thought, if it was me that was in the wrong with no papers and had done damage to her motorbike, could I have told them the same thing when they called on me....."I'm not ready to go to see you yet". Most lightly not......that to me is "discrimination", but i was told in an earlier post that that's the way it is here and I should know that after 11 years of living here. There were similar remarks made by one or two others. In my opening post I stated that I do know a lot about what goes on here AND I ALSO SAID THAT IT IS NOT UNTIL SUCH MATTERS VISIT ONE'S OWN DOOR STEP, DOES THE REALITY OF IT ALL REALLY HIT HOME.....I should have thought that it would be obvious to a blind man that if a person has not personally experienced the goings on then that person might find it all new to him, if he is unfortunate to find himself, or herself in that position (self expiatory) and knowing all the stories and rumours doesn't make it any easier.

Anyway....I'd like to take this opportunity to thank all who had a genuine desire to be helpful and posted same here.................. GB.

Sorry but where is the discrimmination? You where involved in an accident with a woman that know she is wrong but which is taking a chance. If she doesnt she knows she will have to pay for your car repairs. Your insurance company is trying to get away because they know the lady will never be able to pay. I think you should sit back take deep breath and think. After that make an appointment to see the insurance company's highest possible manager. At the meeting dont get angry just explain what happened and if the manager play hard ball make him understand what you will do to make the company lose face. The company must legaly fix your vehicle and you must not let emotion cloud your vision.

[thaidel48]

Having been driving here for the last 24 years and having been in quite a few fender benders my self I am not suprised at your insurers attidute but my Thai friends have faired no better. So I dont think that this is just another case of Falang discrimination.

To many of us white folks always assume its discrimination when in fact the locals would do no better under the same circumstances.

[Angeledge777]

Let me start by saying this. I've been involved in 3 accidents and everytimes, i've been cleared of everything. I'll try to answer as best as I can and my apologize for the mistakes as my main language ain't English. Still, I'll take the time to answer to your questions and, in the eventuality it happens again, you'll know what to do.

There are things you did pretty well. The first one is that you haven't ran away from the scene. The second is that you know the Thai road safety code. The third good thing is that you have all the papers as required by the authority to drive in the kingdom.

There are 2 things you should have done not to be involved in the "farang is wrong" circle. The first one is to get a lawyer right before you and the insurance officer sign the papers at the police station to make sure that:

1- they wrote the report properly

2- the insurance officer wrote his repport properly

Insurances companies in Thailand have a bad reputation when it comes to pay for a car accident and this is caused by their wrong way to write their report. Exemple: they are going to write in Thai that you have for 20000 BAHT in damage on your vehicule but they are going to avoid writing that "it may cost more for unknown damages" the car accident may have caused, or, in the case the lady sue you, to pay for her damages. This said, this is one of the problem you may face pretty soon.

The second thing would have been to take evidence by yourself on the scene. You could have taken photos, videos and witness testifying about what happened over there. Usually, Thai people are not lying when the event just occured. They tend to lie more once they gossip about it with friends and family to make the farang looks "bad".

One more suggestion would be to install a dashcam. Don't forget that we are guests here and we need to do our own safety.

I'm lucky as I have a high rank policeman in my family who likes to teach me about the laws and how to do things in Thailand. I would tell you that it is not about not being welcome here, but all about money. Thais act this way towards Thais and so they act this way too towards foreigners. However, the difference is that Thai people are going to stick together to win over you while the foreigners living in Thailand don't care much about each other. That is the reason why we have such a hard time getting respect here.

One more suggestion: get a lawyer now!

Send me a private message if you have more questions.

[Card]

Don't know if hard evidence would be useful in this case, but I have a car cam switched on all the time in the front windscreen - takes care of everything - scenery, accidents, even police bribery, if swivelled towards the side window. it's great - available at most IT malls cost about 1200 baht. I even take it on hliday when I hire a car to save having to use my video cam for scenery shots - records sight and sound automatically - wonderful.

[FiestyFarang]

Off topic perhaps but the fact that even if you marry a Thai not just a party but through the legal system you still do not get permanent residence, I understand there might be some sham marriages but in most countries the earnest would be on the government to investigate. Even if you have children with a Thai a foreigner does not get PR neither mind citizenship. I think this fact shows really what the government and people think of foreigners. We are only let in for our money, how many jobs are we allowed to do! Need I go on. Having been here nearly six years I have recently thought there is little genuine future here, the chances of finding true love are so low.

[dotpoom]

Why are you surprised that The lady wasn't ready to meet them yet". This is a typical tactic when dealing with the police here in Thailand. The Red Bull heir who ran over a cop was not ready to meet with the police........The teenager who caused the accident that killed 9 people in Bangkok was not ready to meet with the police yet..Cheralems son who shot a cop was not ready to meet with the police,.... the former miss Thailands son who plowed into a group of pedestrians at a bus stop in a case of road rage was not ready to meet with the police

This is the way Thailand works and after 11 years here I am surprised that you don't know that already. I'm not saying that is it right, just that this is the way it is

I agree 100% with this statement but the real point is that you, as a foreigner, are not part of the "Thai System" and "not being ready to meet with the police" is not an option for you. Your only viable option is to make a small contribution to the police drinking fund as quickly as possible and get on with your life. The longer you wait the larger the contribution.

Why would I do that when they are not asking for any money, I'm having no problem with the police, yes initially they mentioned to my wife about what happens when Farangs are in the wrong but I have never said anywhere that they HAD asked me for it. They are now aware of all the details and all agree that no fault lay with me (as I mentioned earlier) In fact they told me to go to a certain repair shop to get a quotation for the repairs....but up to me where I want to have it repaired. When I have the quotation we will meet the lady at the police station. but that will never happen, I will get it fixed myself and hopefully be on my way...I have no desire to ask her for money, she works on a building site about 300 mtrs from my house so she's no million heiress. GB

[Utley]

Why are you surprised that The lady wasn't ready to meet them yet". This is a typical tactic when dealing with the police here in Thailand. The Red Bull heir who ran over a cop was not ready to meet with the police........The teenager who caused the accident that killed 9 people in Bangkok was not ready to meet with the police yet..Cheralems son who shot a cop was not ready to meet with the police,.... the former miss Thailands son who plowed into a group of pedestrians at a bus stop in a case of road rage was not ready to meet with the police

This is the way Thailand works and after 11 years here I am surprised that you don't know that already. I'm not saying that is it right, just that this is the way it is

I agree 100% with this statement but the real point is that you, as a foreigner, are not part of the "Thai System" and "not being ready to meet with the police" is not an option for you. Your only viable option is to make a small contribution to the police drinking fund as quickly as possible and get on with your life. The longer you wait the larger the contribution.

Why would I do that when they are not asking for any money, I'm having no problem with the police, yes initially they mentioned to my wife about what happens when Farangs are in the wrong but I have never said anywhere that they HAD asked me for it. They are now aware of all the details and all agree that no fault lay with me (as I mentioned earlier) In fact they told me to go to a certain repair shop to get a quotation for the repairs....but up to me where I want to have it repaired. When I have the quotation we will meet the lady at the police station. but that will never happen, I will get it fixed myself and hopefully be on my way...I have no desire to ask her for money, she works on a building site about 300 mtrs from my house so she's no million heiress. GB

Making a small donation will close the matter.

[Neeranam]

Off topic perhaps but the fact that even if you marry a Thai not just a party but through the legal system you still do not get permanent residence, I understand there might be some sham marriages but in most countries the earnest would be on the government to investigate. Even if you have children with a Thai a foreigner does not get PR neither mind citizenship. I think this fact shows really what the government and people think of foreigners. We are only let in for our money, how many jobs are we allowed to do! Need I go on. Having been here nearly six years I have recently thought there is little genuine future here, the chances of finding true love are so low.

Not true - If a foreigner is married to a Thai national all they need to get Citizenships is a few simple things. for example

pay tax on 40,000 baht a month for 3 years

have a tambien bahn(house registration)

you don't even need to be fluent in the language these days.

Singing the national/royal anthem will get you some points.

It's a myth that citizenship is hard to get if you are married.

Dude stay away from the tourist areas.

[NoshowJones]

Mr Berkshire, most of us would be involved in road 'accidents' frequently if we did not have to keep slowing down all these times when motorbike riders drive on the wrong side of the road, it is not unusual in the sticks where I live to have all sorts of vehicles doing this. Also I have good experience of driving in the USA, having driven all over California, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Las Vegas, Nashville Tennessee, etc.

I actually have found American drivers to be the best of the lot, very courteous and never gave me any problems. I respect your opinion, and hope you would respect mine.

[Neeranam]

I gotta say, I'm just amazed that so many farangs--knowing how everything is stacked against us, and knowing how recklessly the Thais drive--would even dare drive in Thailand at all. God knows I wouldn't.

Mind you, I'm not "blaming the victim" here...I sympathize with the injustice felt by the farangs in all these stories/incidents. But you must have KNOWN what you would be up against in getting behind the wheel here (I sure do...and thus would never dream of doing so)...did you think it would be worth the risk somehow?

You cannot win in confrontations with the Thais, so it is best to stay far, far away from any chance of a confrontation. Three simple rules which will get you a long way and leave you with much peace of mind (and physical and financial safety): 1) never get involved in a romantic relationship with a Thai (c'mon, that's what the sex industry is for, to protect you from ever having to do that!); 2) never get in any sort of physical altercation (i.e. fight) with a Thai...do I really need to explain the downside of disobeying this one? and, 3) never get behind the wheel of a motorized vehicle (I would add bicycle too!) in Thailand. Beyond this, enjoy, it's a great country.

Oh, another English teacher with low self-esteem. The need to criticize/judge others to feel better himself. Do you call yourself 'khun .....' too? D

There is so much irrational thinking/paranoia going on here.

1- total crap

2- paranoia

3- total crap

[abrahamzvi]

Don't expect the insurance assessor to submit his report based on facts. I once had a motorbike drive into my parked car, and my own insurance guy suggested I claim responsibility for the accident. They figure farangs are more able to take the immediate hit, but it gets complicated if the other party takes it further once guilt has been established. Good luck.

I am truly sorry to read the comments about discrimination. I do agree with the OP that driving in Thailand is dangerous, but I really can't share his or your views about the insurance aspect, and about the police. Years ago in Khon Kaen I had a similar accident with a motor cyclist, behaving in a similar way on the road. I had no Thai speaking wife with me and the police arrived within minutes. I could hardly speak with them, as my Thai was practically non existent, and the police stopped few Thais asking if they could act as translators. One of them did and the police advised me to call my insurance. Their adjuster, or assessor, arrived within half an hour and was most helpful. Luckily enough the motor cyclist and his wife and child were hardly injured, but were, of course complaining about my driving. I eventually agreed to come to the police the next morning and bring my passport, which I did. the police were most courteous and although I did not admit guilt, I was advised that in order to avoid the cyclist trying to lodge a claim against me (he, of course, alleged it was my fault), it would be best to try and settle with him amicably. The police officer was the mediator and it ended up by me giving the cyclist baht 1,000, against his signature that he had no reason to lodge a claim against me. My damaged car, was repaired with my insurance (I had an Own Damage cover) carrying the full costs without any difficulties. I do admit, things are different here than in Europe, or the US, but I must say that both the police and the insurance rep. were most helpful, and to speak about discrimination here would be completely out of place. I wonder what the situation would have been had the same accident happened in the US, or the UK and I was not able to converse with the police!

Again, I do agree that for us it would be best to try to either avoid driving or do it as seldom as possible. That is what i have been doing (I have moved away from Khon Kaen since).

[NoshowJones]

Slightly off-topic, but I couldn't help but notice this in the OP:

"Almost instantly passers by helped the woman up and she was taken to the hospital by the rescue team for a check up.....she is fine , thank God, a few minor scratches."

Wait a minute, but didn't the TV know-it-alls insists that this never happens in Thailand? That the Thais never help victims of accidents? Another myth debunk.

As for the OP, no worries. If you have Class I insurance, your insurance company will "take care."

Mr Berkshire, the way you always stick up for Thailand and Thai people is admirable, and I do agree with you most of the time, but you would gain a lot of credibility of you would just admit what we all know. The standard of driving and riding motorbikes in Thailand is dreadful amongst the majority of Thais, and I mean the majority.

Mr Berkshire, please read post 105.

[dotpoom]

Thanking you most kindly Angeledge777,

I appreciate your words of advice and your offer to answer any questions I may have.

I did in fact take photos of the scene and as the insurance guy was so late in arriving (two hours) it was all cleared by that time. He had to transfer the pics from my phone to his by "bluetooth"....luckily for me and him, that i had such a modern contraption as my wife had just given it to me as a present a few days earlier for my birthday.....the joys on modern technology (as she doesn't read TV I'm free to tell you....I wish I had my auld one back, it was so ancient it had Roman Numerals but at least I could work it, 555)

GB. and thanks again.........

Let me start by saying this. I've been involved in 3 accidents and everytimes, i've been cleared of everything. I'll try to answer as best as I can and my apologize for the mistakes as my main language ain't English. Still, I'll take the time to answer to your questions and, in the eventuality it happens again, you'll know what to do.

There are things you did pretty well. The first one is that you haven't ran away from the scene. The second is that you know the Thai road safety code. The third good thing is that you have all the papers as required by the authority to drive in the kingdom.

There are 2 things you should have done not to be involved in the "farang is wrong" circle. The first one is to get a lawyer right before you and the insurance officer sign the papers at the police station to make sure that:
1- they wrote the report properly
2- the insurance officer wrote his repport properly
Insurances companies in Thailand have a bad reputation when it comes to pay for a car accident and this is caused by their wrong way to write their report. Exemple: they are going to write in Thai that you have for 20000 BAHT in damage on your vehicule but they are going to avoid writing that "it may cost more for unknown damages" the car accident may have caused, or, in the case the lady sue you, to pay for her damages. This said, this is one of the problem you may face pretty soon.

The second thing would have been to take evidence by yourself on the scene. You could have taken photos, videos and witness testifying about what happened over there. Usually, Thai people are not lying when the event just occured. They tend to lie more once they gossip about it with friends and family to make the farang looks "bad".

One more suggestion would be to install a dashcam. Don't forget that we are guests here and we need to do our own safety.

I'm lucky as I have a high rank policeman in my family who likes to teach me about the laws and how to do things in Thailand. I would tell you that it is not about not being welcome here, but all about money. Thais act this way towards Thais and so they act this way too towards foreigners. However, the difference is that Thai people are going to stick together to win over you while the foreigners living in Thailand don't care much about each other. That is the reason why we have such a hard time getting respect here.

One more suggestion: get a lawyer now!

Send me a private message if you have more questions.

[Baerboxer]

One day I was riding with my Thai GF and a couple of kids. We were going to drop the GF off on the way to take the kids home. When the taxi pulled to the side of the road to let the GF out, when she opened her door it was immediately hit by trwo people passing the stopped taxi between the curb and the taxi. As soon as the accident happened I could tell there was no serious damage to motor cycle or passengers. I told her to stay in the car and not say anything, (Thinking that in the US if someone even says they are "Sorry" it can be used in court as an admission of guilt. As more and more people arrived they all pointed at me in the front seat and said "Farang, Farang did it" They were saying they saw the Farang open the door. I never touched the door. When the police came, which was right away, the first thing they asked was if she was my wife. The taxi driver told them he didn't think so as we were dropping her off so she could grab another taxi and go to a near by mall. I reiterated that she was the Nanny and not my wife. But I had to laugh about all the eye witnesses that saw me open the door into the motor cycle. After some time in the police station and never admitting guilt we were let go to come back on another day. About a week later we went back to the police station. Our appointment was at 1:00 pm. We arrived at 12:00 pm and we arrived after the insurance adjuster for the motor cycle. When we arrived the police said he had thought about it and decided it was all the GF's (Nanny) fualt. I then produced the driving manual and showed him where it said that it was illegal for a motor cycle to overtake a car on the curb side. He read it a couple of times and told the insurance adjuster that it was his clients fault. With lots of protest and dramatics the guy would not have it that it was his fault. After he realized he did not have a leg to stand on he started in with that the GF (Nanny) was a bad Thai as she didn't even get out of the car to say she was sorry. I explained very calmly that she stayed in the car at my request to keep the children calm as they were scarred with all the commotion. After that didn't work, he went on to say that his passenger was loosing income as a singer as she could not go to work as she was recovering from the accident and that no one offered to help with the expenses. Remember if he had been following the law there wouldn't have been any expenses. Then he started in on her being a bad Thai not wanting to help. That is when the GF, (Nanny as everyone still thought that was who she was) lost it. She went off on the guy saying that he was irresponsible and didn't know anything about her. She then pulled out a sealed envelope with the lady that got hurts name on it. Handed it to the police and told him to please open it. When the police opened it he found a very nicely written letter to the lady saying that she hoped that the enclosed 2,000 Baht would help her while she recovered. The police thanked her very much and let us go while he proceeded to fine and lecture the motor cycle driver. My conclusion to this whole thing. Throw out anything you learned in the USA or UK about not helping a victim at a scene of an accident or saying your sorry. Keep your cool at all times. Have something to refer to show your innocence, rule book, photos etc.... Never believe an eye witness. Never be the only Farang at an auto accident.

That's a good story, and good advice mate. In the UK, and I guess from what you say the US too, we've been conditioned to say nothing admit nothing, and not even communicate in a courteous way. This behavior is driven by the insurance companies wanted to minimize their liabilities and create a better position for them to manipulate the law should it go to court.

Here, as in other parts of Asia, there is an expectation people will show some concern for anyone injured and at least be polite (apart for the ignorant pompous arrogant ones who try and show their importance). We have to change our behavior to suit. Be firm, but polite and speak nicely at all times - goes a long way.

I opened a taxi door, just near Ekkamai BTS and a guy on a m/c tried to overtake on the inside. Caught him a purler - door edge got him right on the knee. The taxi driver and I got out and we both kept asking him if he was o.k., and saying sorry. He kept grumbling about is knee, and looked in a fair bit of pain. After about 5 mins the taxi driver gave him 2 or 300 baht, and signaled me to go to the BTS. The motor cyclists waied to us both and shot off. I was lucky, decent taxi driver.

My wife tells me to be very careful when driving. She says keep in mind that if a car hits a bike, whatever the circumstances, the BiB will always favor the bike rider(s). Farangs are considered rich so if a bike hits you and you make a fuss about damage the BiB think you mean and unreasonable to ask for payment of damage.

[NoshowJones]

Look , you all live here, well, some of you do, ok, not many of you do, alright, most of you don't live in Thailand, so really, what do you know ?

So easy to diss Thai people, you don't live here cos it's such a bad place, right ?

Seems like on ThaiVisa, it's a competition to see who can slag off Thai people the most, most posters don't live in Thailand and don't know <deleted>, there are a few posters I respect on ThaiVisa, only a few, Neeranam, Guesthouse etc etc, guys like that, anyway, I gotta go now, bye.

What about me???

[kikoman]

As I read "Your woe is me" post I find it as a prime example of an incident I could have used to reaffirm my travel choice, I stated if you drive in Thailand, without a firm knowledge of the traffic laws of Thailand You will be held responsible for your questionable choices, if you become involved in an accident while driving in Thailand.

That is what exactly happened to you, (is it not) which resulted in your questionable actions / decisions placed your financial investment at risk, that you felt the need to fly your family out of the country within 2 days and sells all your property in Thailand.

No, that's not at all what "happened to me". Read my post.

If your story is factual and I have reasons to believe it may not be as you contradict you tale, when a poster stated to you that he could not believe someone would leave the country simply because he was involved in a fender bender, you stated, if you find someone that did let me know, (not verbatim but only my recollection) your post also suggested that you also left the country.

Before you make any more argumentative blunders, may I suggest that you actually read what other posters write (especially mine if you are going to continue commenting)

You made your assumptions on a part of my post to the OP without bothering to read what I actually posted,you posted on what you assumed.

Your shoot from the hip approach, is not appreciated by you when you think I do not fully understand your situation, you felt the need to mention I was not a good parent ( your value judgement) because I did not own a car and do my own driving, yet you complain when I post to exactly what you posted.

Your actions are not those of a person with great parenting skills, as by you words and manner of addressing others you turned a minor accident into a situation, where you felt your family was placed in danger, that you had to leave the country immediately. And as I "assume" that you have not resided in Thailand for the last 2 years! An indication that you have not been driving in Thailand since then,.

I can not believe so many people that have posted on this thread , are still driving in Thailand!

In 2001 in my first month in Thailand I rented a car and drove some friends to Sattahip, I instantly realized that driving here was much different than driving in Arizona, as I notice all types of driving situations, that made me very uncomfortable and also the driving on the opposite side of the street which was very foreign to me. so I made the decision, not to drive a car in Thailand.

Which solely is my right for me to make and my personal decision are none of your business, as they have served me well over the last 12 years in Thailand.

Again every one is entitled to make their own opinions, including you if you post to what I said not what you assume.

I know I will disagree with it because my decisions are based on what is best for me and my family.

Cheers:

Edited October 12, 2013 by kikoman

[abrahamzvi]

Off topic perhaps but the fact that even if you marry a Thai not just a party but through the legal system you still do not get permanent residence, I understand there might be some sham marriages but in most countries the earnest would be on the government to investigate. Even if you have children with a Thai a foreigner does not get PR neither mind citizenship. I think this fact shows really what the government and people think of foreigners. We are only let in for our money, how many jobs are we allowed to do! Need I go on. Having been here nearly six years I have recently thought there is little genuine future here, the chances of finding true love are so low.

What you are saying is incorrect. I really don't know much about being naturalized in Thailand (I can't do this, as my own country does not allow dual citizenship), if you are married to a Thai, but it most certainly is not as automatic as you seem to imply in most European countries and in the US, or Australia. . Most European countries and the US make it difficult, or at least subject to a lengthy procedure, for Thai spouses to enter their countries to join their husbands/wives. In most countries (see UK) the UK citizen has to show substantial financial means and satisfy other requirements to allow his/her spouse to join him/her. I personally do not agree and abhor these practices, as also poor people should have the right to unite with their families in their own country, but here you are. Here in Thailand, the requirements for a non Thai spouse are not that onerous. One can get a year's permit, which can be extended for as many years as one wishes (a year at a time), if one can prove an income of baht 40,000 (less that GDP 1,0000!) or have in the Bank in Thailand Baht 400,000. Compared to the UK, we are talking here about pennies!

The other possibility is for the non Thai spouse to apply for permanent residence, after a certain qualifying residence period and subject to other requirements.Admittedly, it is difficult, takes years and is expensive, but it is possible. In my own country, the requirements are different, but they still exist - 5 years residence and a test in the language, history and customs of my country. I am not criticizing this ,as it has its merits, but lets stop criticizing Thailand. How does the saying go - the one who sits in a glass house should not throw stones....

[dotpoom]

earliedThank you abraharnzvi,

I am sorry if I gave the wrong impression, I have already explained that "discrimination" may have been the wrong word to use, and why I used it. I have nothing bad to say about the police and have never had any problems with them, they have always treated me with respect during my time here as I have them (as best my memory serves me) that is why I was taken aback when my wife told me what they had said when I left the room about when Farangs are in the wrong being sent home, I felt it was uncalled for and could only be interpreted as a "softening up" measure.

What I said about the insurance company is not my view of them..............it is what happed and is still happening.....it is fact. ...Only yesterday I asked them by email , after sending them a full report with pics. why the will not answer my emails and why their rep never calls . My wife had to call them two times to learn that Yes..they had received my emails.....and said the report has been sent to Chonburi....but they couldn't reply to my email with that info ..thus saving my wife and themselves, the trouble of two phone calls, and having to be put through numerous different depts. when a simple reply to either of my emails would have kept me up-to-date and not chasing them all over the place.

The joys of motoring.

Don't expect the insurance assessor to submit his report based on facts. I once had a motorbike drive into my parked car, and my own insurance guy suggested I claim responsibility for the accident. They figure farangs are more able to take the immediate hit, but it gets complicated if the other party takes it further once guilt has been established. Good luck.

I am truly sorry to read the comments about discrimination. I do agree with the OP that driving in Thailand is dangerous, but I really can't share his or your views about the insurance aspect, and about the police. Years ago in Khon Kaen I had a similar accident with a motor cyclist, behaving in a similar way on the road. I had no Thai speaking wife with me and the police arrived within minutes. I could hardly speak with them, as my Thai was practically non existent, and the police stopped few Thais asking if they could act as translators. One of them did and the police advised me to call my insurance. Their adjuster, or assessor, arrived within half an hour and was most helpful. Luckily enough the motor cyclist and his wife and child were hardly injured, but were, of course complaining about my driving. I eventually agreed to come to the police the next morning and bring my passport, which I did. the police were most courteous and although I did not admit guilt, I was advised that in order to avoid the cyclist trying to lodge a claim against me (he, of course, alleged it was my fault), it would be best to try and settle with him amicably. The police officer was the mediator and it ended up by me giving the cyclist baht 1,000, against his signature that he had no reason to lodge a claim against me. My damaged car, was repaired with my insurance (I had an Own Damage cover) carrying the full costs without any difficulties. I do admit, things are different here than in Europe, or the US, but I must say that both the police and the insurance rep. were most helpful, and to speak about discrimination here would be completely out of place. I wonder what the situation would have been had the same accident happened in the US, or the UK and I was not able to converse with the police!

Again, I do agree that for us it would be best to try to either avoid driving or do it as seldom as possible. That is what i have been doing (I have moved away from Khon Kaen since).

[timewilltell]

Different countries have different laws and dealing with its legal system, In the U.S. it is a civil violation and is dealt with by who the police state was at fault, through insurance companies, or in civil court. In Mexico if you are in an accident and someone got hurt and you were at fault, it is a criminal offence and you could end up in prison..

In the U.S. you are innocent until proven guilty, in Mexico under the Napoleonic code You are considered guilty until proven innocence.

Before driving one must know something about that countries laws as it may be completely different than in your home country, Your home countries laws do not protect you outside of your home country national borders.

Insurance companies all over the world tried to minimize the liability payout for an accident, it is not a action only by Thai insurance companies, a case may seem to be an open and shut case, until someone claims they were injured by your recklessness, every one is covered by the legal code of their country their charges have to be fully investigated and could change due to their side of the story.

I made it a point when I came to Thailand to not drive on Thailand's streets because it could lead to financial disaster, just the mere fact that you drive a car in Thailand, increases your possibilities of becoming involved with the the Legal system. and bears a great deal of responsibility, as a consequence of hurting someone in an accident.

I advised my brother to sell his truck because of his reckless U.S. driving habits, tied in with his version of road rage and the fact that every time he drove me somewhere he would become involve in a fender bender, That he was bound sooner, more than later being killed in a accident or killing someone else in an accident because of his depth perception problems due to the loss of sight in one eye.

Transportation cost are very reasonable nation wide, I pay 200 baht for a round trip to the local hospital, 14 kilometers away, 750 baht for a 120 kilometer monthly shopping round trip to Nakhon Sawan.

Cheers:

Yeah right - try that in Phuket it will cost 200 baht to get out of your driveway with all the corruption here.

[Tatsujin]

Don't expect the insurance assessor to submit his report based on facts. I once had a motorbike drive into my parked car, and my own insurance guy suggested I claim responsibility for the accident. They figure farangs are more able to take the immediate hit, but it gets complicated if the other party takes it further once guilt has been established. Good luck.

Never, ever, ever admit responsibility here if it's not your fault. Once you do that, and once YOUR insurance has agreed to pay out, then you're likely to receive "other" claims coming your way. You're the "rich" foreigner, you can afford it. There is no "right" or "wrong" here.

[Rod3]

Invest in a good lawyer, I think this is the only way to sort out problems here.

[Chicken George]

It would seem 50/ 50 shared blame. You pay for your damage she pays gor hers. If not and you press thst she is to blame then your insurance may not pay for yours and try to get it from her. Which will not happen. Agree to share blame and move on..

[RedQualia]

Firstly, I'm surprised you don't know the way things work here after living here for 11 years. Also, you need your wife to do the talking?

This is not a Thai farang issue. When an accident happens the 2 parties size each other up. It is to do with how much 'power' you have. Granted, at first most Thais will see a foreigner, especially white one, and think they know nothing/nobody, especially if they are in Pattaya or tourist area. These stupid farang can't even speak the language - of course they won't know 'the law' or the procedure. I wouldn't be surprised if the OP didn't know what 'Boon Khun' is, for example.

I've had accidents here - one time the pick up was on the wrong side of the road and had a head on with me. As I was limping about with a broken foot I heard them say that I was at fault. What to do? Boon Khun time! I called someone and they came and I ended up getting 1 months salary compensation, my car fixed and hospital costs. The guy was also fined 400 baht.

But, my car took 3 months to get fixed and the insurance didn't pay for my rented car so what now? Sue the pricks. A police friend was going to help. Delay - my friend became senator of the region so wait a month until he's in office. Delay, Taxsin and his government is booted out. Plan 2 - settle for half the money by bribing someone in the insurance company.

Usually the bigger vehicle pays. It has all to do with positioning on the social ladder. Thais look at the woman that foreigners are with and know instantly if the farang could have any power.

I hear people talking about having a get out of jail card. I have used these before and can't stress the importance of getting to 'know' people here if you plan on living happily for years. Learn the language, have Thai friends, join clubs etc.

I can't believe that some people leave the country because another car hits theirs.

I do have a buddy who was hit from behind by an off duty soldier. The soldier attacked him with a machete as he lost face when he approached my friend's car and said it was his fault and tried to grab his keys. My mate grabbed his hand and would give them. He said if he hadn't been a black belt in karate and ex army, he'd have been dead as the machete weilder was trying to kill him. Warning - never toot your horn to show someone is in the wrong. It could cost you your life. 3 months ago In khon kaen central street a man was shot dead for hooting his horn. I have a friend who's son's friend was shot in the head for tooting his horn.

Integrate, learn the language, learn the ways to get out of trouble. Don't think it of them and us. I can't emphasize how important it is to learn the language - how the hell are you going to know what's going on if you don't?

My Wif e often toots the horn she isnt dead yet.........................please!!!

Mine sticks her head out the window and yells "Khwai!!!" Sometimes amazed that we're both still alive...

[Mudcrab]

I had a similar type of scenario in pattaya 3 days ago. I was driving a bit fast on sukhumvit towards sattahip on my ducati. No traffic so i could go 120-150km/h without a problem. I was in the total right lane and out of nowhere, some old guy drives from the sidewalk straight across the road without looking left or right. Needless to say i crashed right into him at full speed. Sure i was going to fast but the old thai guy didn't bother turning his head left or right for a second to check for oncoming traffic. Once i picked myself up, i went to the old thai guy laying on the floor and moved him off the street, then moved the bikes off the street so traffic could pass.

An SUV full of russians stopped, got out of their car and yelled at me without even knowing what happened.. simply assuming the young idiot on the big bike must have caused this mess. I didn't respond to avoid further drama and cause more harm to myself. A few minutes later the emergency truck and police arrived. Police requested 3,000 baht for not filling a report and the emergency guy told me to give the old guy 3,000 baht so he could go to hospital.

Now i am all busted up, destroyed a 500k motorbike (ducati) and have to life with the consequences that i can never ride a bike again. TIT.

yeah..right.....dream on

[Mudcrab]

Mr Berkshire, most of us would be involved in road 'accidents' frequently if we did not have to keep slowing down all these times when motorbike riders drive on the wrong side of the road, it is not unusual in the sticks where I live to have all sorts of vehicles doing this. Also I have good experience of driving in the USA, having driven all over California, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Las Vegas, Nashville Tennessee, etc.

I actually have found American drivers to be the best of the lot, very courteous and never gave me any problems. I respect your opinion, and hope you would respect mine.

There is no thing as an accident. It is a culmination of events, all avoidable, that lead to an unfavourable outcome for all involved. 99% are due to human error.