The Grey Man "The truth revealed"

[Jessi]

The truth has finaly come out about what really happened in the child rescue and how the corruption of Thai Police helped to destroy the Charity.

You can read about it here. http://penhpal.com/2013/08/sisha-the-anti-trafficking-org-finally-unravels/

Tony Ryan starts at post number 74, telling the story of what really happened.

You can PM me if you require a link to this blog

Edited October 25, 2013 by Mario2008
names removed

[OLDAUSSIE]

This is a very interesting story behind all of this. When the news first broke about this there were some members on here that were saying what a great organization the grey man is, from memory the members were, soft george, old sailor, chooka and a few more but I cant remember their names at the moment. Now that this story has broken it goes to prove how right they were.

Once you read the story from that link you can see how The corruption in Thailand can totally screw you. Just my 2 bobs worth.

[chooka]

The silence by the anti Grey Man Movement and the pedophile supporters groups is deafening now that the truth has been revealed.

[mmh8]

I find the A Drummond info. to be a far more reliable resource than oh I don't know random blog post 74, in fact I would rate a Drummond as a highly credible reporter, whereas I would rate link to post on random blog as .....

I guess this is not a phd

[KittenKong]

As far as I can see these moralistic NGOs are generally run by people whose only real interest is for themselves. The always seem to have a hidden agenda.

[chooka]

As far as I can see these moralistic NGOs are generally run by people whose only real interest is for themselves. The always seem to have a hidden agenda.

Please explain what exactly these hidden agenda's and self interests are in relation to the Grey Man. My understanding is that they devote their own personal time and funds to the wellbeing of other and expect absolutely nothing in return.

[MrMalarkey]

As far as I can see these moralistic NGOs are generally run by people whose only real interest is for themselves. The always seem to have a hidden agenda.

What a stupid comment.

The old saying about a few bad eggs and all.

[metisdead]

Nonsensical posts and replies have been removed.

[chrisinth]

I read the posts from Tony Ryan (from post #74 on) and also the replies from A Drummond, quite a lot of them.

Even though he has posted replies, he hasn't really answered the comments from Mr. Ryan, which do indeed show that the Grey man saga requires closure and once again, media coverage should not be taken at face value especially when being reported by persons unqualified to come to the assumptions that were reached.

IMHO of course..................

[A1Str8]

Good read.

[KittenKong]

My understanding is that they devote their own personal time and funds to the wellbeing of other and expect absolutely nothing in return.

Well, if you believe that you will probably believe anything.

[chooka]

My understanding is that they devote their own personal time and funds to the wellbeing of other and expect absolutely nothing in return.

Well, if you believe that you will probably believe anything.

How many do you know to dispute what I say???

[KittenKong]

My understanding is that they devote their own personal time and funds to the wellbeing of other and expect absolutely nothing in return.

Well, if you believe that you will probably believe anything.

How many do you know to dispute what I say???

Just as with tourist police volunteers: I don't know any and I don't want to know any, thanks. These people generally seem to have an axe of some type to grind.

[Beetlejuice]

I have said many times in the past, that the NGO organisations are simply, jobs for the lads.

[Tim207]

I find the A Drummond info. to be a far more reliable resource than oh I don't know random blog post 74, in fact I would rate a Drummond as a highly credible reporter, whereas I would rate link to post on random blog as .....

I guess this is not a phd

I actually knew nothing about any of this before reading the link. I don't know any of the people or any of the organizations mentioned. My unbiased take is that "Tony Ryan" seems a lot more credible than "A Drummond". A Drumond seems to be deflecting and obscuring points and questions put forth by Tony Ryan rather than answering and discussing from his point of view.

I am a bit puzzled by Tony Ryan's intimate knowledge and access to the contents of e-mail sent and received by John Curtis but other than that his arguments are clearly the winner and as A Drummond is a professional writer I would think that if he had the truth on his side he should be able to easily write a convincing rebuttal. A Drummond has completely failed to refute Tony Ryan's case.

I wonder if you even read the exchange or if you have some agenda in this saga.

[BookMan]

As far as I read, the comments posted on the blog by 'Tony Ryan' and Andrew Drummond do nothing to dispel the original story of last year. The original story and how it came about is the crux of the matter

The original story was about The Grey Man making up a press release about a phoney rescue. There is no dispute that they did this. It all started with The Grey Man putting into motion a story to gain publicity that was shown to be false.

Sean Mcbride (john Curtis) stood down over the entire fiasco and it seems from the outside that he is the main offender in this story.

The actions of the leader and figurehead of The Grey Man Sean Mcbride (john Curtis) should not necessarily reflect on the people who volunteer their time to the organisation.

Undoubtedly the majority of volunteers to the group were there to genuinely help children in need.

[BookMan]

I find the A Drummond info. to be a far more reliable resource than oh I don't know random blog post 74, in fact I would rate a Drummond as a highly credible reporter, whereas I would rate link to post on random blog as .....

I guess this is not a phd

I actually knew nothing about any of this before reading the link. I don't know any of the people or any of the organizations mentioned. My unbiased take is that "Tony Ryan" seems a lot more credible than "A Drummond". A Drumond seems to be deflecting and obscuring points and questions put forth by Tony Ryan rather than answering and discussing from his point of view.

I am a bit puzzled by Tony Ryan's intimate knowledge and access to the contents of e-mail sent and received by John Curtis but other than that his arguments are clearly the winner and as A Drummond is a professional writer I would think that if he had the truth on his side he should be able to easily write a convincing rebuttal. A Drummond has completely failed to refute Tony Ryan's case.

I wonder if you even read the exchange or if you have some agenda in this saga.

You are reading an exchange on a blog. The two participants can present evidence as they see fit or skew it as they like.

If you go back to the original story of last year you will see that the Grey Man made up a press release about a rescue that never happened. They claimed they had rescued children from trafficking.

A lot of what this Tony Ryan guy says was not mentioned when the story first broke, nor in the coupe of months afterwards. Strange that eh?

[Tim207]

You are reading an exchange on a blog. The two participants can present evidence as they see fit or skew it as they like.

If you go back to the original story of last year you will see that the Grey Man made up a press release about a rescue that never happened. They claimed they had rescued children from trafficking.

A lot of what this Tony Ryan guy says was not mentioned when the story first broke, nor in the coupe of months afterwards. Strange that eh?

That is true that both sides can and did have the opportunity to present their sides on the blog. Going back to the original article will only show the side of the author, who in my view didn't come off very well when challenged on the blog with the other side of the story. As for the Tony Ryan side of the story not being reported, why would the author report the other side of the story if it tended to make him look bad.

As I said before, this whole thing is new to me and I am going only on how the two sides presented their viewpoints on the blog. It sure seemed to me like the reporter did a hatchet job for a sensational story and is trying to hide the fact now that it is being questioned.

[BookMan]

You are reading an exchange on a blog. The two participants can present evidence as they see fit or skew it as they like.

If you go back to the original story of last year you will see that the Grey Man made up a press release about a rescue that never happened. They claimed they had rescued children from trafficking.

A lot of what this Tony Ryan guy says was not mentioned when the story first broke, nor in the coupe of months afterwards. Strange that eh?

That is true that both sides can and did have the opportunity to present their sides on the blog. Going back to the original article will only show the side of the author, who in my view didn't come off very well when challenged on the blog with the other side of the story. As for the Tony Ryan side of the story not being reported, why would the author report the other side of the story if it tended to make him look bad.

As I said before, this whole thing is new to me and I am going only on how the two sides presented their viewpoints on the blog. It sure seemed to me like the reporter did a hatchet job for a sensational story and is trying to hide the fact now that it is being questioned.

As you might note, I said the original story, not the original article. The story itself is bigger than any one article.

That you are not willing to go back to the original source is only blinkering you.

The debate on the blog is mere obfuscation of the original issue of whether The Grey Man made up a story to further their own interests. The answer to that is yes they did.

[Tim207]

You are reading an exchange on a blog. The two participants can present evidence as they see fit or skew it as they like.

If you go back to the original story of last year you will see that the Grey Man made up a press release about a rescue that never happened. They claimed they had rescued children from trafficking.

A lot of what this Tony Ryan guy says was not mentioned when the story first broke, nor in the coupe of months afterwards. Strange that eh?

That is true that both sides can and did have the opportunity to present their sides on the blog. Going back to the original article will only show the side of the author, who in my view didn't come off very well when challenged on the blog with the other side of the story. As for the Tony Ryan side of the story not being reported, why would the author report the other side of the story if it tended to make him look bad.

As I said before, this whole thing is new to me and I am going only on how the two sides presented their viewpoints on the blog. It sure seemed to me like the reporter did a hatchet job for a sensational story and is trying to hide the fact now that it is being questioned.

As you might note, I said the original story, not the original article. The story itself is bigger than any one article.

That you are not willing to go back to the original source is only blinkering you.

The debate on the blog is mere obfuscation of the original issue of whether The Grey Man made up a story to further their own interests. The answer to that is yes they did.

It was my impression that the entire story stems from the original article. If there was independent investigation by other sources than A Drummond and not relying on people that seem to have a vested interest in perpetuating A Drummond's account, that could change my view.

I really only read the blog because I had nothing to do today. I had little interest in the story or it's outcome. Now I am a little curious. Do you have links to anything you think I should read?

[chooka]

My understanding is that they devote their own personal time and funds to the wellbeing of other and expect absolutely nothing in return.

Well, if you believe that you will probably believe anything.

How many do you know to dispute what I say???

Just as with tourist police volunteers: I don't know any and I don't want to know any, thanks. These people generally seem to have an axe of some type to grind.

You are comparing chalk and cheese. The tourist police volunteers are generally people who would never have been accepted as police back home possibly due to criminal convictions or failing psychological tests at entrance exams. Grey men aren't old expats trying to live a missed past but many are actually currently serving dedicated police officers who accumulate their leave and volunteer their time to a cause. They pay everything out of their own pockets and probably the only axe to grind is the dislike of child abuse and the child sex slavery business.

There are actually some very good people in this world and not everyone on the planet is a self centred egotist.

[MJP]

I find the A Drummond info. to be a far more reliable resource than oh I don't know random blog post 74, in fact I would rate a Drummond as a highly credible reporter, whereas I would rate link to post on random blog as .....

I guess this is not a phd

I actually knew nothing about any of this before reading the link. I don't know any of the people or any of the organizations mentioned. My unbiased take is that "Tony Ryan" seems a lot more credible than "A Drummond". A Drumond seems to be deflecting and obscuring points and questions put forth by Tony Ryan rather than answering and discussing from his point of view.

I am a bit puzzled by Tony Ryan's intimate knowledge and access to the contents of e-mail sent and received by John Curtis but other than that his arguments are clearly the winner and as A Drummond is a professional writer I would think that if he had the truth on his side he should be able to easily write a convincing rebuttal. A Drummond has completely failed to refute Tony Ryan's case.

I wonder if you even read the exchange or if you have some agenda in this saga.

Yes, second this. I've read it all too and having had no previous knowledge of any of it, taking the exchange at face value, only the Grey Man people come out with any credibility. A lot of credibility in fact. Evil happens when good people do nothing and I really hope the Grey Man organisation continues its brave work.

I must say that the activities of another organisation mentioned in the exchange appear very shifty. It's all very unpleasant and as always money and greed appear to be the source of the problem.

[Kudel]

I find the A Drummond info. to be a far more reliable resource than oh I don't know random blog post 74, in fact I would rate a Drummond as a highly credible reporter, whereas I would rate link to post on random blog as .....

I guess this is not a phd

I actually knew nothing about any of this before reading the link. I don't know any of the people or any of the organizations mentioned. My unbiased take is that "Tony Ryan" seems a lot more credible than "A Drummond". A Drumond seems to be deflecting and obscuring points and questions put forth by Tony Ryan rather than answering and discussing from his point of view.

I am a bit puzzled by Tony Ryan's intimate knowledge and access to the contents of e-mail sent and received by John Curtis but other than that his arguments are clearly the winner and as A Drummond is a professional writer I would think that if he had the truth on his side he should be able to easily write a convincing rebuttal. A Drummond has completely failed to refute Tony Ryan's case.

I wonder if you even read the exchange or if you have some agenda in this saga.

Yes, second this. I've read it all too and having had no previous knowledge of any of it, taking the exchange at face value, only the Grey Man people come out with any credibility. A lot of credibility in fact. Evil happens when good people do nothing and I really hope the Grey Man organisation continues its brave work.

I must say that the activities of another organisation mentioned in the exchange appear very shifty. It's all very unpleasant and as always money and greed appear to be the source of the problem.

Why not ask andrew drummond himself apparently the man is ferboten himself on this website , and i kind of like hes words about funny foreigners running dodgy kind of companys.the lawsuits he has won lately speak for themselfes.

[metisdead]

Posts containing links to Andrew Drummond's web site have been removed. Please understand Thai Visa is not employed as a tool to obtain information for Andrew Drummond nor do we use material from his web site.

[MrMalarkey]

I find the A Drummond info. to be a far more reliable resource than oh I don't know random blog post 74, in fact I would rate a Drummond as a highly credible reporter, whereas I would rate link to post on random blog as .....

I guess this is not a phd

I actually knew nothing about any of this before reading the link. I don't know any of the people or any of the organizations mentioned. My unbiased take is that "Tony Ryan" seems a lot more credible than "A Drummond". A Drumond seems to be deflecting and obscuring points and questions put forth by Tony Ryan rather than answering and discussing from his point of view.

I am a bit puzzled by Tony Ryan's intimate knowledge and access to the contents of e-mail sent and received by John Curtis but other than that his arguments are clearly the winner and as A Drummond is a professional writer I would think that if he had the truth on his side he should be able to easily write a convincing rebuttal. A Drummond has completely failed to refute Tony Ryan's case.

I wonder if you even read the exchange or if you have some agenda in this saga.

You are reading an exchange on a blog. The two participants can present evidence as they see fit or skew it as they like.

If you go back to the original story of last year you will see that the Grey Man made up a press release about a rescue that never happened. They claimed they had rescued children from trafficking.

A lot of what this Tony Ryan guy says was not mentioned when the story first broke, nor in the coupe of months afterwards. Strange that eh?

I believe it was a trafficking operation in process, this is what could be in dispute as seems to be argued by the other side and Drummond.

If TGM's info was correct and they stopped it in transit, then good for them, but certainly no great coupe for any fund raising drive as it does not have the sensational aspect the end product would have. Seems some organisations would prefer to wait until they are in the end game and get the glory rather than stop it from happening in the first instance and be tarred with 'sure, we believe you, thousands wouldn't'

If you look at the secret agents website you see he lays claim to more than 300 kids rescued. Yet after reading all the Tony Ryan content, you would have to wonder.

[MrMalarkey]

I have said many times in the past, that the NGO organisations are simply, jobs for the lads.

Then you have made a fool of yourself many times in the past haven't you.

Takes some balls to admit that.

[chooka]

I find the A Drummond info. to be a far more reliable resource than oh I don't know random blog post 74, in fact I would rate a Drummond as a highly credible reporter, whereas I would rate link to post on random blog as .....

I guess this is not a phd

I actually knew nothing about any of this before reading the link. I don't know any of the people or any of the organizations mentioned. My unbiased take is that "Tony Ryan" seems a lot more credible than "A Drummond". A Drumond seems to be deflecting and obscuring points and questions put forth by Tony Ryan rather than answering and discussing from his point of view.

I am a bit puzzled by Tony Ryan's intimate knowledge and access to the contents of e-mail sent and received by John Curtis but other than that his arguments are clearly the winner and as A Drummond is a professional writer I would think that if he had the truth on his side he should be able to easily write a convincing rebuttal. A Drummond has completely failed to refute Tony Ryan's case.

I wonder if you even read the exchange or if you have some agenda in this saga.

You are reading an exchange on a blog. The two participants can present evidence as they see fit or skew it as they like.

If you go back to the original story of last year you will see that the Grey Man made up a press release about a rescue that never happened. They claimed they had rescued children from trafficking.

A lot of what this Tony Ryan guy says was not mentioned when the story first broke, nor in the coupe of months afterwards. Strange that eh?

I believe it was a trafficking operation in process, this is what could be in dispute as seems to be argued by the other side and Drummond.

If TGM's info was correct and they stopped it in transit, then good for them, but certainly no great coupe for any fund raising drive as it does not have the sensational aspect the end product would have. Seems some organisations would prefer to wait until they are in the end game and get the glory rather than stop it from happening in the first instance and be tarred with 'sure, we believe you, thousands wouldn't'

If you look at the secret agents website you see he lays claim to more than 300 kids rescued. Yet after reading all the Tony Ryan content, you would have to wonder.

There is no James Bond MI5 secret agent stuff with the grey man. This is not fantasy island or some keyboard game. These are real people with true feelings and a desire to make a difference. They don't just sit behind a keyboard and whine and complain about how the various governments aren't doing enough to stamp out human trafficking, child exploitation and pedophilles feeding of kids. These people sacrifice their own time and finances, get off the <deleted> and bar stools and try and make a difference. They are not an adhoc group of do gooders but people with numerous skills and highly veted by the organisation.

They Grey Man is audited and strongly monitored by various Australian Government departments, everything must be above approach. Nothing untoward has been detected by such agencies. All monies raised goes directly to rehabilitation in the form of education etc, nothing passing through the hands of corrupt officials which has been a cause of anguish. No one has had a chance to skim, Yes the Grey Man has run foul against the perfect squeekie clean anti corrupt Thai officials and a certain media giant who financed and supported a new rival for media ratings but this has been in one country in S/E Asia.

A lot of people on here will donate and back any NGO to rescue a kitten or soi dog in hope that they get a better life. The very same people will spit in the face of an NGO if they want to rescue a child from the clutches of a pedophille. These people will say you have an alternative motive and the child wants this life, that is bullshite no child wants a life of abuse. I will back the Grey Man 100% to rescue on child over any other NGO to rescue a 100 Soi dogs. You will not have 50 fat old farangs lined up to take a turn on a soi dog like you will with a young child.

Yes many will disagree with me and that is a respected opinion but I respect children as they are our future and soi dogs are not.

[Kudel]

So why are you complaining about this on this website ,AD has a website where people can ask questions and post comments about his articles he posts online about certain people and organisitions .

Edited October 27, 2013 by Kudel

[MrMalarkey]

I actually knew nothing about any of this before reading the link. I don't know any of the people or any of the organizations mentioned. My unbiased take is that "Tony Ryan" seems a lot more credible than "A Drummond". A Drumond seems to be deflecting and obscuring points and questions put forth by Tony Ryan rather than answering and discussing from his point of view.

I am a bit puzzled by Tony Ryan's intimate knowledge and access to the contents of e-mail sent and received by John Curtis but other than that his arguments are clearly the winner and as A Drummond is a professional writer I would think that if he had the truth on his side he should be able to easily write a convincing rebuttal. A Drummond has completely failed to refute Tony Ryan's case.

I wonder if you even read the exchange or if you have some agenda in this saga.

You are reading an exchange on a blog. The two participants can present evidence as they see fit or skew it as they like.

If you go back to the original story of last year you will see that the Grey Man made up a press release about a rescue that never happened. They claimed they had rescued children from trafficking.

A lot of what this Tony Ryan guy says was not mentioned when the story first broke, nor in the coupe of months afterwards. Strange that eh?

I believe it was a trafficking operation in process, this is what could be in dispute as seems to be argued by the other side and Drummond.

If TGM's info was correct and they stopped it in transit, then good for them, but certainly no great coupe for any fund raising drive as it does not have the sensational aspect the end product would have. Seems some organisations would prefer to wait until they are in the end game and get the glory rather than stop it from happening in the first instance and be tarred with 'sure, we believe you, thousands wouldn't'

If you look at the secret agents website you see he lays claim to more than 300 kids rescued. Yet after reading all the Tony Ryan content, you would have to wonder.

There is no James Bond MI5 secret agent stuff with the grey man. This is not fantasy island or some keyboard game. These are real people with true feelings and a desire to make a difference. They don't just sit behind a keyboard and whine and complain about how the various governments aren't doing enough to stamp out human trafficking, child exploitation and pedophilles feeding of kids. These people sacrifice their own time and finances, get off the <deleted> and bar stools and try and make a difference. They are not an adhoc group of do gooders but people with numerous skills and highly veted by the organisation.

They Grey Man is audited and strongly monitored by various Australian Government departments, everything must be above approach. Nothing untoward has been detected by such agencies. All monies raised goes directly to rehabilitation in the form of education etc, nothing passing through the hands of corrupt officials which has been a cause of anguish. No one has had a chance to skim, Yes the Grey Man has run foul against the perfect squeekie clean anti corrupt Thai officials and a certain media giant who financed and supported a new rival for media ratings but this has been in one country in S/E Asia.

A lot of people on here will donate and back any NGO to rescue a kitten or soi dog in hope that they get a better life. The very same people will spit in the face of an NGO if they want to rescue a child from the clutches of a pedophille. These people will say you have an alternative motive and the child wants this life, that is bullshite no child wants a life of abuse. I will back the Grey Man 100% to rescue on child over any other NGO to rescue a 100 Soi dogs. You will not have 50 fat old farangs lined up to take a turn on a soi dog like you will with a young child.

Yes many will disagree with me and that is a respected opinion but I respect children as they are our future and soi dogs are not.

The secret agent was in response to the 'undercover operative' mention in the Tony Ryan posts and is about a Thai undercover guy.....not TGM, although he reportedly did work for them at some stage.

You will need to find the link, not easy in all of that malarkey, but is a link to his new or now I think 2009, business venture.

[mmh8]

On the balance of finding multiple sources of informaiton vs a posting on a forum similar to tv I would go for the multiple sources every time. Credible reporting takes yearss of practise at being credible, being a poster in a forum makes you well ...... I guess an eminant source of information