Thailand's left-hand traffic 'impedes integration'

[Time Traveller]

I duck on the issue knowing it´s complexity. My point is you tend to pick the argument that suits your background. This thread attracts mostly bitter arguments from contributors from left side driving countries. The same individual if would have come from a right hand driving country would have seen things differently. You come from a left side driving country, eh? OK, so that´s my point.

That's not a point. Thailand Malaysia and Singapore all drive on the left. Laos Myanmar Cambodia, Vietnam - each much smaller economies than the other 3 and with less trucks - drive on the right.

Usually the smaller less dominant economies change to match that of the more dominant countries. Do you also think Malaysia and Singapore should switch to right hand driving to suit much smaller trading partners?

[wilcopops]

<Snipped all the misformated quotes>

Please inform. Can't find a succinct reason other than the possibility that they copied the layout from the UK.

I looked at a copy of the Thai Highway Code some time back and it looked as if it had been directly lifted from the UK one.

So, yes, if you are going to copy the road signs and the road use instructions from a different country, you pretty much have to drive on the same side of the road that they do, it could get messy otherwise.

This to me seems absolute nonsense as the UK road signs are based on the European system which of course is right side driving.

[wilcopops]

Glancing though this topic make me smile a bit. I can´t now what is right (!) and wrong in this matter. But there seem to be a massive support for continuing left side driving.

I would love to know how many of you contributors in favor of left side driving originates from left side driving countries.

Myself from a right hand driving country can see the advantage of right hand driving even in Thailand. I think the massive support here for left hand driving in Thailand more has to do with the majorities background as left side drivers. Left side driving countries like UK and Australia seem to be dominant among the contributors in general in Thai Visa.

So my simple thesis is that if you come from a left side driving country you find argument that support continued left side driving. If you come from a right side driving country you are more open in this question. Background more then the quality of arguments decides.

Looks like you are pretty uninformed about this issue....

"The same individual if would have come from a right hand driving country would have seen things differently. You come from a left side driving country, eh?" - nonsense!

I have driven extensively in both LHD and RHD vehicles on both right side and left side driving in all combinations thereof. E.g. LHD vehicle on RH and LH roads and RHD vehicle on RH and LH roads.

Most people who come from "LH road" countries, UK for instance, will have experience of driving on both sides of the roads and both sides of the car.

however the vast majority of people from "RD road" countries will not have this experience.

The result is that the former are better placed to form an opinion......and most realise that changing sides is not a problem, especially in large trucks.

The UK is a good example because it has a massive economy (even in recession) and does a massive amount of trade within Europe which is carried out by road. If you drive around the UK you will soon notice that a significant proportion of the commercial traffic consists of vehicles from around Europe all of which are left hand drive.

Some UK transport companies that spend most of their time in Europe may actually have LHD fleets, but these are LEGAL in UK as are imported LHD private cars. This is from a country that has some of the lowest road incident figures in the world.

Edited November 4, 2013 by wilcopops

[Artisi]

Glancing though this topic make me smile a bit. I can´t now what is right (!) and wrong in this matter. But there seem to be a massive support for continuing left side driving.

I would love to know how many of you contributors in favor of left side driving originates from left side driving countries.

Myself from a right hand driving country can see the advantage of right hand driving even in Thailand. I think the massive support here for left hand driving in Thailand more has to do with the majorities background as left side drivers. Left side driving countries like UK and Australia seem to be dominant among the contributors in general in Thai Visa.

So my simple thesis is that if you come from a left side driving country you find argument that support continued left side driving. If you come from a right side driving country you are more open in this question. Background more then the quality of arguments decides.

The question is about Thailand changing sides from left hand to right hand, not about preferences of individuals and what country they come/came from.

[willyumiii]

No matter what side Thai law says to drive on, Thais will continue to drive on any side they like or even both sides at one time.

Traffic laws are just a suggestion in Thailand.

Thailand is not concerned with integration or complying with ASEAN.

The basic requirement of knowing the English language has become a joke and just one more way for the corrupt Thai officials to pad their bank accounts

Money the government has allocated to improve the education of the English language vanishes into thin air ( or thick wallets).

As a result, their has been no real improvement in the quality of instruction of the English language in Thailand.

Thailand is still rated the lowest of ASEAN countries when it comes to speaking English.

So, who cares what side of the road the law says to drive on?

Thailand will not be prepared for ASEAN by the dead line.

And who cares about ASEAN?

Thais know there is no world outside of Thailand.

" We Are The World"

Edited November 4, 2013 by willyumiii

[Credo]

Malaysia drives on the left as does Singapore. Malaysia is a key bordering neighbour, the others are Burma, Laos and Cambodia. in Burma and Cambodia they appear to drive on both sides, not sure about Laos but none of these countries are exactly economic powerhouses whereas Malaysia is.. So why would driving on the left in Thailand present particuliar problems with integration? Is this just another dumb Thai government official shooting his or her mouth off with no logic, evidence or facts to back their claim up? The only real impediment to smooth integration that i see is Thai government officials that often seem totally brain dead.

The trade with Malaysia is less significant than with the other countries. Malaysia is way down the peninsula and borders the contentious border provinces. There is not a huge amount of industry in that area.

The other countries are going to be trading a lot with China and it would be advantageous to drive on the same side as China.

as it costs investors extra logistic expenses for having to change the car engines when crossing the border.

Obviously the guy knows what he is talking about, makes a lot of sense to change the cars engine! after all a left handed engine works different to a right handed engine, it turns in the opposite direction!!!!!

I think it's just wrong translation. The Nation writers do that a lot, I suspect they use Google translate sometimes.

Obviously they need to change the trucks (the front part of the semi-trailer), not the engines, so that the driver would be located on the right side of the truck when driving on the left lane. Having to do that each time you cross the border is a logistical nightmare.

Why a logistic nightmare. Please explain.

Lets assume for a moment an articulated vehicle from country X arrives at the Thai border, the vehicle is marshalled into holding bay, uncoupled and then proceeds to another section of the marshalling yard and recouples to a trailer heading back into country X, the arriving uncoupled trailer is in turn coupled to a prime-mover (left-hand drive for Thailand) and proceeds on its way into Thailand- this is a fairly normal procedure for transport vehicles travelling between England and Europe - in many cases only the trailer is put on the ferry / train for transport across the channel -i.e., dropped on one side and collected on the other side. This is also done in many countries when a trailer is put onto the rail system to be collected at a distant location by an entirely different prime-mover.

It's not rocket science but unfortunately many "experts" haven't a clue regarding freight movements as has been shown here in this thread.

So companies with trucks are just going to turn their goods over to another company in a foreign country? It sounds good on paper, but the insurance, legal problems, delivery deadlines get all messed up when you start this sort of thing. The logistics for that is a huge problem.

[yooper2001]

This should be east for Thailand to convert to right hand side driving because most thai drivers do not know what side they belong on while driving

[wilcopops]

"The other countries are going to be trading a lot with China and it would be advantageous to drive on the same side as China. "

again and again this has been shown to be nonsense.

[Credo]

"The other countries are going to be trading a lot with China and it would be advantageous to drive on the same side as China. "

again and again this has been shown to be nonsense.

Please show why it is nonsense.

I am pretty sure that there will be more trade by land between Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia, Myanmar and Thailand than between Thailand and Malaysia.

[nisakiman]

as it costs investors extra logistic expenses for having to change the car engines when crossing the border.

Obviously the guy knows what he is talking about, makes a lot of sense to change the cars engine! after all a left handed engine works different to a right handed engine, it turns in the opposite direction!!!!!

I think it's just wrong translation. The Nation writers do that a lot, I suspect they use Google translate sometimes.

Obviously they need to change the trucks (the front part of the semi-trailer), not the engines, so that the driver would be located on the right side of the truck when driving on the left lane. Having to do that each time you cross the border is a logistical nightmare.

Why a logistic nightmare. Please explain.

Lets assume for a moment an articulated vehicle from country X arrives at the Thai border, the vehicle is marshalled into holding bay, uncoupled and then proceeds to another section of the marshalling yard and recouples to a trailer heading back into country X, the arriving uncoupled trailer is in turn coupled to a prime-mover (left-hand drive for Thailand) and proceeds on its way into Thailand- this is a fairly normal procedure for transport vehicles travelling between England and Europe - in many cases only the trailer is put on the ferry / train for transport across the channel -i.e., dropped on one side and collected on the other side. This is also done in many countries when a trailer is put onto the rail system to be collected at a distant location by an entirely different prime-mover.

It's not rocket science but unfortunately many "experts" haven't a clue regarding freight movements as has been shown here in this thread.

So companies with trucks are just going to turn their goods over to another company in a foreign country? It sounds good on paper, but the insurance, legal problems, delivery deadlines get all messed up when you start this sort of thing. The logistics for that is a huge problem.

The logistics are in fact very simple. When I drove semi-trailers in Aus in the 70s, swapping trailers was normal practice. I'd often take a trailer from Melbourne to Sydney, drop it off for one of the local guys to deliver / unload, and pick up another trailer that had already been loaded for Melbourne. All you needed was the manifest with the trailer number on it. Into the yard, hook up and away you go. Ten minutes work to drop one off and pick another up. Piece of cake. As long as the paperwork is taken care of (and as Artisi points out, they do cross-border trailer swaps all the time between UK and mainland Europe) there should be no problem. And both Thai and Chinese are more than capable of organising that, if they deem it the best option.

Anyway, as I pointed out in an earlier post on this thread, driving a LHD truck on the left side of the road (or vice versa) doesn't create any great problems, since the elevation of the driver means he has an unobstructed view of the road ahead anyway. There are thousands of European trucks delivering goods in UK, and equally thousands of (RHD) UK trucks plying the routes across mainland Europe.

[Noistar]

 No matter what side Thai law says to drive on, Thais will continue to drive on any side they like or even both sides at one time.

 

Traffic laws are just a suggestion in Thailand.

 

 Thailand is not concerned with integration or complying with ASEAN.

 

    The basic requirement of knowing the English language has become a joke and just one more way for the corrupt Thai officials to pad their bank              accounts

    

     Money the government has allocated to improve the education of the English language vanishes into thin air ( or thick wallets).

 

     As a result, their has been no real improvement in the quality of instruction of the English language in Thailand.

 

Thailand is still rated the lowest of ASEAN countries when it comes to speaking English.

 

So, who cares what side of the road the law says to drive on?

 

Thailand will not be prepared for ASEAN by the dead line.

 

And who cares about ASEAN?

 

Thais know there is no world outside of Thailand.

 

" We Are The World"

You share many of my own feelings about many Thai attributes, especially the traffic laws. I saw the aftermath of an 'accident' caused by some idiot playing 'I can beat the red light'. Unfortunately he involved some innocent motorcyclists in his stupid game. One person was being given cardiac massage. I can't imagine the 'emergency' services would have been much help. Just because the 'suggestion' of a red light was ignored. Saved a 72 second wait - worth it, wasn't it?

I believe it is the Thai mindset, continually ground into them from birth.

They can't try anything new, because during the learning curve Thais would be inferior. I believe that Thais believe they are superior, not inferior.

I just wonder if this statement was a knee-jerk reaction to an instruction from above to contribute something to the ASEAN integration. Presumably whether or not the idea was practical/sensible was left up to him.

Just a thought.

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[The International Farang]

Since Singapore, Malaysia and India drive on the left, what difference does it make? There is unlikely to be a torrent of vehicles crossing into Laos or Myanmar in the forseeable future.

The guy's a nut.

Does he envision the millions of cars in Thailand being converted to left hand drive or all new cars being produced with left hand drive?

Even Japan drives on the left and so should Thais.

edit to add:

The United Kingdom has been right hand drive since the start of motoring. When the Brits visit continental Europe they drive on the right hand side of the road. It isn't that hard. Thais will adapt as they already drive on either side of the road.

Crazy talk, it shouldn't happen at all, let alone be discussed by this loony-guy.

[animatic]

as it costs investors extra logistic expenses for having to change the car engines when crossing the border.

Obviously the guy knows what he is talking about, makes a lot of sense to change the cars engine! after all a left handed engine works different to a right handed engine, it turns in the opposite direction!!!!!

I was pleased you could actually read it all the way through to find this bit of idiocy.

I couldn't make it that far first read, the eyes rolled back in my head too far.

[Credo]

The logistics are in fact very simple. When I drove semi-trailers in Aus in the 70s, swapping trailers was normal practice. I'd often take a trailer from Melbourne to Sydney, drop it off for one of the local guys to deliver / unload, and pick up another trailer that had already been loaded for Melbourne. All you needed was the manifest with the trailer number on it. Into the yard, hook up and away you go. Ten minutes work to drop one off and pick another up. Piece of cake. As long as the paperwork is taken care of (and as Artisi points out, they do cross-border trailer swaps all the time between UK and mainland Europe) there should be no problem. And both Thai and Chinese are more than capable of organising that, if they deem it the best option.

Anyway, as I pointed out in an earlier post on this thread, driving a LHD truck on the left side of the road (or vice versa) doesn't create any great problems, since the elevation of the driver means he has an unobstructed view of the road ahead anyway. There are thousands of European trucks delivering goods in UK, and equally thousands of (RHD) UK trucks plying the routes across mainland Europe.

You are talking about driving in ONE, civilized country with a comprehensive set of laws, rules and regulations. I assume that you are bonded, insured and that your cargo is insured separately and for a variety of possible mishaps. In these countries that is not the case.

During Thaksin's time in power, he tried to set up a rather simple situation where trucks heading north to drop off a load, returned with a load. He couldn't get it implemented. Have you seen the road blocks to stop the trucks. Sometimes they are forced to pull over and sit there for a long, long period of time.

This is Thailand, planning and logistics are not the strong suit.

[wilcopops]

The logistics are in fact very simple. When I drove semi-trailers in Aus in the 70s, swapping trailers was normal practice. I'd often take a trailer from Melbourne to Sydney, drop it off for one of the local guys to deliver / unload, and pick up another trailer that had already been loaded for Melbourne. All you needed was the manifest with the trailer number on it. Into the yard, hook up and away you go. Ten minutes work to drop one off and pick another up. Piece of cake. As long as the paperwork is taken care of (and as Artisi points out, they do cross-border trailer swaps all the time between UK and mainland Europe) there should be no problem. And both Thai and Chinese are more than capable of organising that, if they deem it the best option.

Anyway, as I pointed out in an earlier post on this thread, driving a LHD truck on the left side of the road (or vice versa) doesn't create any great problems, since the elevation of the driver means he has an unobstructed view of the road ahead anyway. There are thousands of European trucks delivering goods in UK, and equally thousands of (RHD) UK trucks plying the routes across mainland Europe.

You are talking about driving in ONE, civilized country with a comprehensive set of laws, rules and regulations. I assume that you are bonded, insured and that your cargo is insured separately and for a variety of possible mishaps. In these countries that is not the case.

During Thaksin's time in power, he tried to set up a rather simple situation where trucks heading north to drop off a load, returned with a load. He couldn't get it implemented. Have you seen the road blocks to stop the trucks. Sometimes they are forced to pull over and sit there for a long, long period of time.

This is Thailand, planning and logistics are not the strong suit.

...so how does driving on the other side alter that?

[hon123]

This sounds dangerous

[bangon04]

We would be the Thais, wishing they could drive on the same side as the Chinese and their neighbours.

The reason those countries listed there drive on the left is because of their association with the UK.

Yes Japan, one of the leading economies in the world, is well known for being a British Colony. In 1945 the British invaded Japan and set up major military and logistic bases there, which they are still clinging to today...

As other posters have noted, Myanmar changed for ideological reasons, not for economic. They still have a lot of RHD cars on the road.

China could well have been a nation which drives on the left. During Mao's time this was introduced for ideological reasons, not economic. And after Mao, it took a few years to actually formulate the rules. VIPs drove down the centre of the road in reserved lanes and the peasants only had bicycles. Interestingly if China had decided to drive on the left, the statistics for population driving on right or left would look very different.... So just a historical accident? If they had decided to import their cars from Japan, it could have been very different.

[smotherb]

I may be more inclined to accept the point of these arguments if the two ASEAN member neighbors to the South did not also drive on the wrong side of the road. However, that is not my main concern.

You will remember Sweden switched from the wrong to the right side of the road several years ago--the Swedes heavily advertised the switchover for a couple of months beforehand, then at midnight one night, they made the switch. A few accidents were reported, but not many, and the switchover was made.

Let's suppose the powers that be in Thailand decide to switch driving to the right side of the road--how many, well, you fill in the blanks?

Already discussed and pointed out that mopst cars in Sweden were ALREADY LHD.

Thank you for dismissing my post so easily, but if you would read my post, you would see that my query had to do with the expectations of a Thai movement to drive on the RIGHT side of the road as opposed to the wrong side.

[wilcopops]

I may be more inclined to accept the point of these arguments if the two ASEAN member neighbors to the South did not also drive on the wrong side of the road. However, that is not my main concern.

You will remember Sweden switched from the wrong to the right side of the road several years ago--the Swedes heavily advertised the switchover for a couple of months beforehand, then at midnight one night, they made the switch. A few accidents were reported, but not many, and the switchover was made.

Let's suppose the powers that be in Thailand decide to switch driving to the right side of the road--how many, well, you fill in the blanks?

Already discussed and pointed out that mopst cars in Sweden were ALREADY LHD.

Thank you for dismissing my post so easily, but if you would read my post, you would see that my query had to do with the expectations of a Thai movement to drive on the RIGHT side of the road as opposed to the wrong side.

- your comments about Thailand are little more than the "bleedin' obvious" and as I said - already discussed.

[SteveH]

I may be more inclined to accept the point of these arguments if the two ASEAN member neighbors to the South did not also drive on the wrong side of the road. However, that is not my main concern.

You will remember Sweden switched from the wrong to the right side of the road several years ago--the Swedes heavily advertised the switchover for a couple of months beforehand, then at midnight one night, they made the switch. A few accidents were reported, but not many, and the switchover was made.

Let's suppose the powers that be in Thailand decide to switch driving to the right side of the road--how many, well, you fill in the blanks?

Already discussed and pointed out that mopst cars in Sweden were ALREADY LHD.

Thank you for dismissing my post so easily, but if you would read my post, you would see that my query had to do with the expectations of a Thai movement to drive on the RIGHT side of the road as opposed to the wrong side.

Right side, wrong side, that's a matter of opinion !

[smotherb]

I may be more inclined to accept the point of these arguments if the two ASEAN member neighbors to the South did not also drive on the wrong side of the road. However, that is not my main concern.

You will remember Sweden switched from the wrong to the right side of the road several years ago--the Swedes heavily advertised the switchover for a couple of months beforehand, then at midnight one night, they made the switch. A few accidents were reported, but not many, and the switchover was made.

Let's suppose the powers that be in Thailand decide to switch driving to the right side of the road--how many, well, you fill in the blanks?

Already discussed and pointed out that mopst cars in Sweden were ALREADY LHD.

Thank you for dismissing my post so easily, but if you would read my post, you would see that my query had to do with the expectations of a Thai movement to drive on the RIGHT side of the road as opposed to the wrong side.

- your comments about Thailand are little more than the "bleedin' obvious" and as I said - already discussed.

Well now, who set you up as the moderator of obvious?

[Spare]

Many stupid country change to drive from one side to the other. The last one was Sweden. The Swedish must be ultra stupid.

From Wiki

In 1955 a referendum was held on the issue, resulting in an 82.9%-to-15.5% vote against a change to driving on the right. Nevertheless, in 1963 the Swedish parliament passed legislation ordering the switch to right-hand traffic. The changeover took place at 5am on Sunday, 3 September 1967, which was known in Swedish as Dagen H (H-Day), the 'H' being for Högertrafik or right traffic.

[wilcopops]

Here's the TV - "editorial" on this......

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/630001-thailand-to-change-from-left-to-right-hand-driving/page-4

[Skint]

Thailands not changing, keep on dreaming

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[wilcopops]

Thailands not changing, keep on dreaming

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I suspect you didn't read the link?

[jmccarty]

Trying to buy some floormats for my car online from China. Heaps of variety, good prices, all for left hand drive cars!

[Skint]

Thailands not changing, keep on dreaming

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I suspect you didn't read the link?

Of course, made on April fools and even if it is true it's only a proposal so the title of that link is not correct, I'm certainly not wasting my time reading the 46 pages.

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[wilcopops]

Thailands not changing, keep on dreaming

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I suspect you didn't read the link?

Of course, made on April fools and even if it is true it's only a proposal so the title of that link is not correct, I'm certainly not wasting my time reading the 46 pages.

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" even if it is true" - oh dear!

[Skint]

 

 

Thailands not changing, keep on dreaming

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I suspect you didn't read the link?

 

Of course, made on April fools and even if it is true it's only a proposal so the title of that link is not correct, I'm certainly not wasting my time reading the 46 pages.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

 

 

 

" even if it is true" - oh dear!

That's right "the credible link" I was referring to.....

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[build6]

As other posters have noted, Myanmar changed for ideological reasons, not for economic. They still have a lot of RHD cars on the road.

close to 90% from what I saw in Yangon