A new reason to jail Thais for thought crime?

[Noistar]

I'm not defending PTP policies. Just stating that if the opposing party was in control today it would also suppress freedoms and introduce stricter laws exactly like this. Voting for the others only gets you more of the same.

PTP and Democrats only want power. Despite their names there is no political ideology behind these parties

I am no Democrat supporter, but the Democrats didn't make any laws like this. As well that big Internet control/censor thing was done by Thaksin and only the military dictators reduced it.

So Democrats didn't do something like that in the past. If they would do the same or not, no one can tell. I never heard them to agree but Abhisit was always for free press and free speech.

I am not saying that you are wrong. You might be right and they would do the same. But they didn't so I can't blame them. PTP did so they are to blame.

It was the junta who introduced the Computer Crime Act. And the number of webpages blocked rose exponentially during their rule. You must've forgotten that they even blocked youtube.

On the point regards the yellows/Democrats. Yes, of course, it'd be facile to absolve them from blame for this, after all their denunciations of the government for not protecting the monarchy and undermining traditional culture. Democrat spokeswoman Mallika Boonmetrakul even called for youtube, twiter, Facebook etc to be blocked not that long ago, to protect people from the "bad web" (recall the Democrats fight "bad web" campaign). Yep, you only need to look at FB pages of anti-government protesters or yellow leaning folk - try Social Sanction on Facebook - to confirm them in their authoritarian leanings.

Ironically, it's the most 'red leaning' journalist at The Nation, Pravit, who highlights this. Or perhaps not so surprising as Pravit has been very consistent in his position and attacked all sides for anti-democratic and illiberal positions. And of course, he's right in describing this government as "autocratic and patronising" but let's not pretend that there's ever been a Thai government that doesn't fit that description.

Was going fine until your unproven opinion in the 2nd part of your last sentence.

[Robby nz]

Great to see the PT and red supporters as usual when they have no real answers go straight to 'but the Dems'

Was wondering if the reporting of the recent case of the monk in his private plane would come under this law as an offence against religion?

Even this article its self could I am sure be considered an insult to the establishment by the thought police.

And of course all the anti Govt comments on this site could easily brand most of us criminals.

[whybother]

Look who is complaining..... The Nation is calling Yingluck autocratic and she was not even handed the power by the military. When will the nation stop being hypocrites and ask questions about all those people still going through the courts for Lese Majeste offenses brought by their poster boy Abhisit?

Did Abhisit have anything to do with LM cases while he was in power?

[Skywalker69]

comparable with don't say "brown bag" in Seattle, as it is 'racist' and you'll be fined.

Ultimately, the general public is responsible to take a stand against these outrageous regulations, otherwise they'll be passed. You only get what you fight for.

Sad part is, the uninformed general public here will not notice all the legislation passed until its already too late.

"brown bag" is racist?

What about "black box"?

[Skywalker69]

Where are the strong PTP and Thaksin supporters, now?

I would like to hear the explanation why this is good for Thailand and Democracy.

Well clearly it's not. But this is basically what the yellow shirts and democrats wanted as well.

"But this is basically what the yellow shirts and democrats wanted as well.

What has the past to do with the future?

His nic is Time Traveller, maybe he is going back in time.

[Skywalker69]

comparable with don't say "brown bag" in Seattle, as it is 'racist' and you'll be fined.

Ultimately, the general public is responsible to take a stand against these outrageous regulations, otherwise they'll be passed. You only get what you fight for.

Sad part is, the uninformed general public here will not notice all the legislation passed until its already too late.

"brown bag" is racist?

Exactly...it was never even perceived as such, or ever used, according to anyone I ever talked to. Easy to see, these types of legislation are a soft way to see the reaction and effect when they implement steps to take away your freedoms.

In German speaking countries we have to change names of dishes, that exist since centuries, because now they got racist.

Some spicy versions of food called "Gypsy Schnitzel" is now racist. But strangely the "Viennese Schnitzel" (or Frankfurter sausage or German sausage or Swedish Meatballs) are not.

Same in Sweden, my friend.

[mjj]

How is this any different than a certain law that states: deemed to be offensive to..........

I always wondered who did the deeming (if that is a word)

I'd like that job.

I'm a deemer. I do a lot of deeming. Today I deemed some stuff. :-)

[Skywalker69]

How is this any different than a certain law that states: deemed to be offensive to..........

I always wondered who did the deeming (if that is a word)

I'd like that job.

I'm a deemer. I do a lot of deeming. Today I deemed some stuff. :-)

Keep on deeming.

[Samuian]

well then let's see - I was tought that freedom of speech should be a universal human right held up high!

[kimamey]

Where are the strong PTP and Thaksin supporters, now?

I would like to hear the explanation why this is good for Thailand and Democracy.

Well clearly it's not. But this is basically what the yellow shirts and democrats wanted as well.

The Democrats did nothing like that, or anything similar when they were in power.

So can you explain why this is something the Democrats wanted as well?

Highest number of lest majeste cases in decades.

Does that ring a bell?

It's true the Democrats always seem keen on claiming they need to defend the monarchy but I think that's more to do with trying to get support than anything else. I did once mention the high number of LM cases under the Dems but was told that the government didn't bring those cases so it wasn't really down to them. I don't know if that's true or not.

I don't think the Dems ever went as far as this but although they certainly aren't blameless but in any case it's still stupid and this time it's down to the PTP.

[kimamey]

Well that kind of law could just about cover anything,they can

bend the law to say what ever they want,dangerous times in

Thailand,where you could get 2 years and a fine just for thinking.

and at a time when the local despot regime, Burma is freeing its

political prisoners.

Regards Worgeordie

hmm must be english . no such country as burma you must mean Myanmar

Sorry if this is off topic but it's been mentioned so I think an explanation is needed

The reason that the name Burma is still used by many western countries is that the changing of a nation's name can only be done by the government of that country. The name was changed by the military not an elected government. I believe both names mean the same and that Myanmar is used more when writing but Burma is used a lot in speech. The government recently criticised Aung San Suu Kyi for using the name Burma. I would say if she uses it then it's OK.

[Daniel5]

Great to see the PT and red supporters as usual when they have no real answers go straight to 'but the Dems'

Even this article its self could I am sure be considered an insult to the establishment by the thought police.

And of course all the anti Govt comments on this site could easily brand most of us criminals.

The derailing effort is profound.

It seems that is what they are left with after being unable to rectify that years on into their regime, there's been no positive changes made by yingluck's government whatsoever.

Instead, the noose of repression gets even tighter.

In that light, knee-jerking to "but Abhisit" is their only recourse.

[Thai at Heart]

Great to see the PT and red supporters as usual when they have no real answers go straight to 'but the Dems'

Was wondering if the reporting of the recent case of the monk in his private plane would come under this law as an offence against religion?

Even this article its self could I am sure be considered an insult to the establishment by the thought police.

And of course all the anti Govt comments on this site could easily brand most of us criminals.

Ironically, the punishment for talking about the offence could be more serious than the actual offence?????

Only in Thailand I guess.

[Richard W]

... the changing of a nation's name can only be done by the government of that country.

I don't see that the government has the right to change its country's name where its writ does not run. In English, the name of Bangkok is 'Bangkok', the name of Egypt is 'Egypt', the name of the Nile is the 'Nile' and the name of Warsaw is 'Warsaw', whatever the locals may call them. In the case of Burma, if the Thais can call it Phama, I don't see why English speakers outside Burmese control can't call it 'Burma'.

[Nanfarang]

Personally, I fail to see the political partisanship in this. Rather, it's merely copying what has been going on in the 'West' since at least 2001. What real difference is there between this legislation and that enacted in the name of 'homeland security / anti-terrorism? Personal freedom is being eroded, almost daily, in the USA and throughout Europe. A reason for police 'inquiries' may be as simple as someone withdrawing a sizeable amount of cash from their bank or buying camping ('survival') equipment. It is no longer acceptable to question the actions of government regardless of how outlandish their actions may be. There is general criticism of the Thai government's rice pledging scheme but this pales into insignificance verses the billions of dollars expended needlessly to 'support' the banking system and the US automobile industry amongst others. There is no 'TIT' exclusivity here, its copycat government and powerful fuel for the conspiracy theorists.

[bigbamboo]

Well that kind of law could just about cover anything,they can

bend the law to say what ever they want,dangerous times in

Thailand,where you could get 2 years and a fine just for thinking.

and at a time when the local despot regime, Burma is freeing its

political prisoners.

Regards Worgeordie

hmm must be english . no such country as burma you must mean Myanmar

Sorry if this is off topic but it's been mentioned so I think an explanation is needed

The reason that the name Burma is still used by many western countries is that the changing of a nation's name can only be done by the government of that country. The name was changed by the military not an elected government. I believe both names mean the same and that Myanmar is used more when writing but Burma is used a lot in speech. The government recently criticised Aung San Suu Kyi for using the name Burma. I would say if she uses it then it's OK.

Absolutely. Our Burmese cat was livid when she heard herself being referred to as Myanmarian.

[Noistar]

well then let's see - I was tought that freedom of speech should be a universal human right held up high!

It's probably like Democracy, a Thai-version.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[MaxLee]

well then let's see - I was tought that freedom of speech should be a universal human right held up high!

It's probably like Democracy, a Thai-version.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

It Never was a democracy, it's backstabbing dictatorship disguised as Democracy

[Spare]

The institution sit in the middle and directly above everything else in Thai society.

If Farang do not wish to respect the institution, he/she should not visit Thailand.

[fab4]

Look who is complaining..... The Nation is calling Yingluck autocratic and she was not even handed the power by the military. When will the nation stop being hypocrites and ask questions about all those people still going through the courts for Lese Majeste offenses brought by their poster boy Abhisit?

Did Abhisit have anything to do with LM cases while he was in power?

Well apart from not dissuading his secretary to drop the lese majeste accusation which resulted in the jailing of the 70 grandfather and his subsequent death through ill health nor stepping in on the request for bail which was turned down there was the blanket accusation of lese majeste here discussed at a Q and A at the FCC on May 29th 2010.

Q5 (Simon Montlake, Christian Science Monitor): Prime Minister, recently the emergency committee that you head said that it had uncovered a plot to topple the monarchy. And you yourself made similar references to the fact that the protesters’ aim was not simply an election but was something higher. These are very serious allegations in Thailand. Can you explain what evidence you have for this accusation, and how you plan to proceed? And do you also make a differentiation between criticism of the monarchy and those around it and an actual plot to topple the institution which would involve legal and political and very radical changes into the country?

PM Abhisit: I think we have a number of cases where there is violation of the law concerning security and the monarchy, which is clearly there in print or on the internet – people who openly say that they have an aim to do just that. From there we look at the people who are involved in producing these kinds of materials. So, again, just when I talk about terrorist elements, armed elements, it is a minority of people. We are not saying that the people who are out at Rajaprasong have this aim. On the contrary, we believe that they are loyal subjects just as a lot of them came to demonstrate to air their grievances. So we’re trying to separate these elements out.

And my answer to your second question about whether we separate the comments, discussions, criticisms, from attempts to actually topple the monarchy: yes we do make that difference. And since the end of last year, I’ve set up a special consultative committee on these cases to make sure that there is that distinction being made.

http://www.thailandobservers.com/question-answer-session-during-prime-minister-abhisit-vejjajivaâ™s-briefing-on-the-political-situation-for-international-media-at-the-government-house-on-may-29/

Edited October 17, 2013 by fab4

[whybother]

Look who is complaining..... The Nation is calling Yingluck autocratic and she was not even handed the power by the military. When will the nation stop being hypocrites and ask questions about all those people still going through the courts for Lese Majeste offenses brought by their poster boy Abhisit?

Did Abhisit have anything to do with LM cases while he was in power?

Well apart from not dissuading his secretary to drop the lese majeste accusation which resulted in the jailing of the 70 grandfather and his subsequent death through ill health nor stepping in on the request for bail which was turned down there was the blanket accusation of lese majeste here discussed at a Q and A at the FCC on May 29th 2010.

Q5 (Simon Montlake, Christian Science Monitor): Prime Minister, recently the emergency committee that you head said that it had uncovered a plot to topple the monarchy. And you yourself made similar references to the fact that the protesters’ aim was not simply an election but was something higher. These are very serious allegations in Thailand. Can you explain what evidence you have for this accusation, and how you plan to proceed? And do you also make a differentiation between criticism of the monarchy and those around it and an actual plot to topple the institution which would involve legal and political and very radical changes into the country?

PM Abhisit: I think we have a number of cases where there is violation of the law concerning security and the monarchy, which is clearly there in print or on the internet – people who openly say that they have an aim to do just that. From there we look at the people who are involved in producing these kinds of materials. So, again, just when I talk about terrorist elements, armed elements, it is a minority of people. We are not saying that the people who are out at Rajaprasong have this aim. On the contrary, we believe that they are loyal subjects just as a lot of them came to demonstrate to air their grievances. So we’re trying to separate these elements out.

And my answer to your second question about whether we separate the comments, discussions, criticisms, from attempts to actually topple the monarchy: yes we do make that difference. And since the end of last year, I’ve set up a special consultative committee on these cases to make sure that there is that distinction being made.

http://www.thailandobservers.com/question-answer-session-during-prime-minister-abhisit-vejjajivaâ™s-briefing-on-the-political-situation-for-international-media-at-the-government-house-on-may-29/

So ... the first one, No. The second one, what LM cases came out of that? They were all riot / terrorism charges.

[rametindallas]

Wife who has been moderately red all her life now says she wants a coup, and the sooner the better ! She, like many others who have been blinded by these Dictators for too long, is becoming a lot more savvy about what they are trying to do to the people of this country.

My own thoughts are that if this underlying dissent gathers pace in the coming decade this country is in line for a very big public uprising that is likely to reshape the future completely. The wheel always turns full circle.

It's a race by the dictator wannabe to consolidate his power before the people wake up and get wise to what is happening.

[waza]

Wife who has been moderately red all her life now says she wants a coup, and the sooner the better ! She, like many others who have been blinded by these Dictators for too long, is becoming a lot more savvy about what they are trying to do to the people of this country.

My own thoughts are that if this underlying dissent gathers pace in the coming decade this country is in line for a very big public uprising that is likely to reshape the future completely. The wheel always turns full circle.

It's a race by the dictator wannabe to consolidate his power before the people wake up and get wise to what is happening.

Dont worry, Yionglucks administration is preparing for that......

BANGKOK: -- Justice Minister Chaikasem Nitisiri yesterday revealed a plan to seek Cabinet approval for a Bt30-billion budget to build 42 new prisons nationwide.

[kimamey]

Well that kind of law could just about cover anything,they can

bend the law to say what ever they want,dangerous times in

Thailand,where you could get 2 years and a fine just for thinking.

and at a time when the local despot regime, Burma is freeing its

political prisoners.

Regards Worgeordie

hmm must be english . no such country as burma you must mean Myanmar

Sorry if this is off topic but it's been mentioned so I think an explanation is needed

The reason that the name Burma is still used by many western countries is that the changing of a nation's name can only be done by the government of that country. The name was changed by the military not an elected government. I believe both names mean the same and that Myanmar is used more when writing but Burma is used a lot in speech. The government recently criticised Aung San Suu Kyi for using the name Burma. I would say if she uses it then it's OK.

Absolutely. Our Burmese cat was livid when she heard herself being referred to as Myanmarian.

I hope you haven't got Siamese and Persian as well.

[Curt1591]

Around these parts, "thought crime" might be defined as the act of actually thinking!

[Noistar]

Around these parts, "thought crime" might be defined as the act of actually thinking!

Like the deity KT shouting 'jump' and everybody saying 'how high?'.

You're in the 'do but not ask why' culture.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[jayboy]

Wife who has been moderately red all her life now says she wants a coup, and the sooner the better ! She, like many others who have been blinded by these Dictators for too long, is becoming a lot more savvy about what they are trying to do to the people of this country.

My own thoughts are that if this underlying dissent gathers pace in the coming decade this country is in line for a very big public uprising that is likely to reshape the future completely. The wheel always turns full circle.

So what exactly does your "moderately red" wife object to? It would be interesting to know given her original "red" sentiment though she now wants a military coup.Does she want a permanent military junta or a government appointed by the military or a caretaker government in advance of a democratically elected one? If there was a general election how does she think the Thai people would vote (if allowed a fair election) after a coup?Does she think a military coup would increase or decrease the chance of a healthy democracy? Why was she moderately red in the first place? Does she believe the original "red platform" has been subverted? What precise steps under the current government does she object to?

Frankly it all seems a bit implausible.Did you make it up?

[DocN]

The institution sit in the middle and directly above everything else in Thai society.

If Farang do not wish to respect the institution, he/she should not visit Thailand.

SPARE me!

This is an open forum and we can not even discuss this issue here!

Do you even understand, what "thought crime" is?!

And while I am on it: do you understand, what this law is about?

Edited October 18, 2013 by DocN

[wprime]

The government seems to not understand that forcing people to respect the culture of the monarchy will inevitably result in resentment, if not resistance, as already seen in the vibrant anti-lese-majeste-law movement.

Respect and appreciation, be it for religion, culture or monarchy cannot be forced. They must be earned. Forcing respect on something or someone is not respect but coercion.

The government does understand this. They are using it as a tool to gain further control of the people, and at the same time indirectly discredit the monarchy presenting it as autocratic and undemocratic. These laws aren't the work of the monarchy, they're the work of the government - the King has said himself that he does not support the lese majeste laws and has pardoned offenders whenever possible. Bringing such discredit to the monarchy shouldn't be tolerated - Yingluck should be charged under article 112.

[DocN]

The government seems to not understand that forcing people to respect the culture of the monarchy will inevitably result in resentment, if not resistance, as already seen in the vibrant anti-lese-majeste-law movement.

Respect and appreciation, be it for religion, culture or monarchy cannot be forced. They must be earned. Forcing respect on something or someone is not respect but coercion.

The government does understand this. They are using it as a tool to gain further control of the people, and at the same time indirectly discredit the monarchy presenting it as autocratic and undemocratic. These laws aren't the work of the monarchy, they're the work of the government - the King has said himself that he does not support the lese majeste laws and has pardoned offenders whenever possible. Bringing such discredit to the monarchy shouldn't be tolerated - Yingluck should be charged under article 112.

...along with any politician and citizen of this country since...forever!

Because actually they all have heard him speak on several occasions and on several subjects...and no one really cares.

The King has said many intelligent things- just no one listens!