Thai-Danish 7-year-old to be deported from Denmark

[transam]

And just when you thought cheap and egocentric ugliness could get uglier, it did...

Sooooooooo, answer my simple questions.

No. 1 What country are you living in now.

No.2 Do you have a Thai Wife.

No.3 Do you have kids by your Thai wife.

No.4 What country does your family live in.

[Forethat]

And just when you thought cheap and egocentric ugliness could get uglier, it did...

Sooooooooo, answer my simple questions.

No. 1 What country are you living in now.

No.2 Do you have a Thai Wife.

No.3 Do you have kids by your Thai wife.

No.4 What country does your family live in.

Another blob of irrelevant babbling, if you ask me. Again, not a single word touches on the topic.

Again, if you feel there's need to discuss my personal details, please start a topic and do exactly that. HERE, the topic is a Thai girl and her mother being deported from Denmark, and nothing else. And if you feel you have a perceived moral right to DEMAND answers to irrelevant questions on the details of my personal life you'll be left with nothing but disappointment.

Is it too much to expect from posters that they at least debate the topic? Can't be THAT hard, can it?

[benalibina]

You speak out of ''first hand'' ? Well I have friends in the UK that have lost out BIG TIME for being ''civilized'' and providing a better life for a non UK national just to get kicked in the nethers. Don't go there eh, p;ease.

If you want to know what i refer to " out of 1st hand" better you ask and not assume. If you refer to the fact that some of your friends have been taken to the "cleaners" financially by being civilized. Yes that is bad. Even that i can concur out of 1st hand too. Well sort of.

I try to look to fault primarily with myself and not blame it on others. Have done that to much in the past. I never thought i was fallible, but i am. More than i ever thought possible. Some things however never change in me. That is compassion. Seem you need to have some more compassion with yourself. Will make it easier to deal with other things in life.

[transam]

And just when you thought cheap and egocentric ugliness could get uglier, it did...

Sooooooooo, answer my simple questions.

No. 1 What country are you living in now.

No.2 Do you have a Thai Wife.

No.3 Do you have kids by your Thai wife.

No.4 What country does your family live in.

Another blob of irrelevant babbling, if you ask me. Again, not a single word touches on the topic.

Again, if you feel there's need to discuss my personal details, please start a topic and do exactly that. HERE, the topic is a Thai girl and her mother being deported from Denmark, and nothing else. And if you feel you have a perceived moral right to DEMAND answers to irrelevant questions on the details of my personal life you'll be left with nothing but disappointment.

Is it too much to expect from posters that they at least debate the topic? Can't be THAT hard, can it?

Cop out.

[soi41]

If you too is tired of Forethat and transams pissingcontest, give this post a like!!

[transam]

You speak out of ''first hand'' ? Well I have friends in the UK that have lost out BIG TIME for being ''civilized'' and providing a better life for a non UK national just to get kicked in the nethers. Don't go there eh, p;ease.

If you want to know what i refer to " out of 1st hand" better you ask and not assume. If you refer to the fact that some of your friends have been taken to the "cleaners" financially by being civilized. Yes that is bad. Even that i can concur out of 1st hand too. Well sort of.

I try to look to fault primarily with myself and not blame it on others. Have done that to much in the past. I never thought i was fallible, but i am. More than i ever thought possible. Some things however never change in me. That is compassion. Seem you need to have some more compassion with yourself. Will make it easier to deal with other things in life.

I do not have a problem with my life, got that ?.

I am here for discussion regarding this topic looking at every bodies angle. Got that.

Compassion, never seen it in LOS regarding a farangs problem, got that, so why should farangland always bend over backwards for others ???

[Forethat]

If you too is tired of Forethat and transams pissingcontest, give this post a like!!

Another irrelevant post. Not a single word touches on the topic.

If you feel there's need to discuss lack of moderation I discuss you contact the moderators. HERE, the topic is a Thai girl and her mother being deported from Denmark, and nothing else.

[GrantSmith]

If you too is tired of Forethat and transams pissingcontest, give this post a like!!

Another irrelevant post. Not a single word touches on the topic.

If you feel there's need to discuss lack of moderation I discuss you contact the moderators. HERE, the topic is a Thai girl and her mother being deported from Denmark, and nothing else.

Actually sir, the title of the thread is about Denmark and an immigration issue. The topic being 'discussed' is anything but... Therefore, it could be argued that soi41 is actually on topic, this is a pissing contest between yourself and transam (sorry mate, Forethat's baited you hook, line and sinker)

As you were...

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Forethat]

If you too is tired of Forethat and transams pissingcontest, give this post a like!!

Another irrelevant post. Not a single word touches on the topic.

If you feel there's need to discuss lack of moderation I discuss you contact the moderators. HERE, the topic is a Thai girl and her mother being deported from Denmark, and nothing else.

Actually sir, the title of the thread is about Denmark and an immigration issue.

Then discuss Denmark and their immigration issue. How someone for a second thinks Thai immigration law has something to do with this is amusing, to say the least. To suggest that I or someone else is bound to ANSWER any questions, in particular questions regarding my personal life, is if anything evidence of a complete lack of education and moral standards.

If the question was related to the topic, the Thai child and the mother who are facing deportation from Denmark, I would have contemplated answering, but not even then would anyone be able to DEMAND that I answer.

Ridiculous and proof of a complete lack of class to say the least.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Forethat

[GrantSmith]

Actually sir, the title of the thread is about Denmark and an immigration issue.

Then discuss. To even suggest that I or someone else is bound to ANSWER any questions, in particular questions regarding my personal life, is if anything evidence of a complete lack of education and moral standards.

If the question was related to the topic, the Thai child and the mother who are facing deportation from Denmark, I would have contemplated answering, but not even then would anyone be able to DEMAND that I answer.

Ridiculous and proof of a complete lack of class to say the least.

Thanks for playing "push my buttons", Bob, tell him what he's won....

Quoting a post out of context, does not a point make.

Was transam knocking at your door? Don't even see the word "demand" being used by transam, he's asked several times over the course of the thread for you to answer his question, but never "demanded" you answer his question.

How's the view from Mount Moralhighground?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Thai at Heart]

if you as a farang, married with thai and have children and your wife dies, what do you think will happen to you ?

DEPORTATION .... as you have no more valid reason to be here ...

First of all, I can't see the relevancy in discussing Thai immigration laws when the topic is something completely different. Either way, you're wrong, nobody is getting "deported" for reasons mentioned above.

thai laws inflicted on farangs, should be inflicted to thais in our home countries... no more buying land, having to earn 10x more than a local in our home country to get a workpermit or visa, 4 farangs per every thai job if they want to start a company ...

Irrelevant. And a very childish view, if I may say.

Indeed, the "it happens everywhere" argument is a bit pointless. When it comes to people, the rules should be as required. However, I do agree with the land ownership rule.

I cannot own land here, so I fail to see what benefit of allowing people from countries less enlightened than mine acting without reciprocity. If they won't get their land laws in line with logic, they should not avail of benefit outside their own country.

[JimsKnight]

Good to see European countries making it hard for Thais as the Thais sure make it hard for us to gain citizenship or Permanent Residency. Seems unfair though to pick on the children.

Thankfully Europe is starting to wake up and doing some common-sense moves to get the balance back on track.

[DrDweeb]

Something about this story can not be true!

I do not believe that the little girl can't speak Thai? Half of her life in Denmark, and she is 7 years old now ,, In fact that means that she was leaving Thailand when she was 3,5 Year old ? I'm Danish, and have a Thai son, when my boy was 3,5 Year old he spoke fluent Thai. Also I have many friends with kids living both in Thailand or Denmark,, I never saw or met one who could not speak Thai ,, Every Thai-mother will always speak Thai to her baby!

Anyway ,, I don't like the Danish system,,, In Denmark we are screaming for babyes because we are getting to many older people to take care of ,, And when we have a chance to get some people in,, we just kick them out !!

The child will speak Thai/Lao. Anyone who says otherwise is daft.

No you are wrong. Very very wrong. I have pointed this out numerous times but I'll do it again:

You need to do a little reading on the topic of "Speech Delay" and pay attention to stuff like bi- and multilingualism.

Making assumptions and refer to perfectly reasonable arguments as "daft" really is...daft.

Well, I am bi-lingual, was married to a bi-lingual woman and I have a bi-lingual daughter. My daughter is equally fluent in both languages and has been since birth. There was a short period (months) where she steadfastly refused to speak English, but that was a passing phase.

The probability that the Thai child does not speak Thai with her mother is close to zero.

The probability that the child speaks Danish is 1. (For people who have never witnessed it first hand, you would be amazed how quickly a 4 year old picks up a new language!)

In any case, I actually know a lot about multi lingual children first (my own) and second (a large number of my wife's students) hand . Having been married to an ESL teacher for a long time, had the opportunity to read her various texts on the subject of multi-lingualism (is that actually a word?).

The bottom line is it is almost inconceivable that the child does not speak Thai. Claim whatever you want, the majority of posters here know better.

[DrDweeb]

The article doesn't state the age of the father that died and the cause of death of death was cancer so that he could have been any age. However, we all know that Thai women marry elderly Western men because they know they will die sooner rather than later. Indeed, I personally know such people.

I once met a girl who immediately told me that I wasn't her type. Next, I heard she was getting married to a much more elderly Danish man (yes, he was also a Dane). A few months later when I enquired about her marriage, she told me that her husband had died, but declined to answer how or of what cause. Seh made out that she had been very sad, but was getting over it. Sad, my foot...overjoyed more like it to milk the cow so soon.

Then, I knew after that that the reason I wasn't probably her type was that I was too healthy.

So, in some ways, I think the Danish court's decision isprobbaly justified. we all know they scam the Danish welfare state. They should be deported.

Out of curiosity, do you know if Denmark practices conditional residential permits or visas? For instance, in UK a person can be granted such visa. It basically means the partner agrees to support the immigrant financially. The result here is that the sponsor assumes all financial responsibility.

There was a post further back by a Dane which, had you read it, would have answered that question.

The law changed very recently and I don't know the current details, but previously as a Dane marrying a foreigner, the bottom line was that the wife had no rights to live in Denmark. The Danish spouse had to sign on the dotted line and lodge a deposit, plus lots of other PITA paperwork and obligations!

I know of a case personally, where an Australian went to Denmark and ended up marrying a Dane. Had two kids. After a decade, but while the kids were still young, he went back to Australia for a decade - let the kids experience being Australian as well. Getting back into Denmark was a Kafkaesque circus. He had exactly ZERO rights and had to prove that he had a greater relationship with Denmark than Australia - note: Having a Danish wife and Danish children carries zero weight in this matter. He was subsequently allowed to re-enter the country and resume a normal life for the following reason. His working life in Australia after leaving school until he went to Denmark was slight less than 1 month less than the period he had lived in Denmark. Due to an absolute fluke of travel arrangements, he got to stay in Denmark (he lives down the road from me still).

Trust me, you can't make this stuff up.

[Forethat]

Well, I am bi-lingual, was married to a bi-lingual woman and I have a bi-lingual daughter. My daughter is equally fluent in both languages and has been since birth. There was a short period (months) where she steadfastly refused to speak English, but that was a passing phase.

The probability that the Thai child does not speak Thai with her mother is close to zero.

The probability that the child speaks Danish is 1. (For people who have never witnessed it first hand, you would be amazed how quickly a 4 year old picks up a new language!)

In any case, I actually know a lot about multi lingual children first (my own) and second (a large number of my wife's students) hand . Having been married to an ESL teacher for a long time, had the opportunity to read her various texts on the subject of multi-lingualism (is that actually a word?).

The bottom line is it is almost inconceivable that the child does not speak Thai. Claim whatever you want, the majority of posters here know better.

No, you're wrong. The correct statement is that a majority of posters here THINK they know better when in fact they are speculating and making assumptions.

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so - Mark Twain"

The scientific community is well familiar with this issue; linguistic abilities are commonly delayed for children in multilingual environments. If you want to learn more of the issues related to speech development in multilingual environments I suggest you start here: http://linguistlist.org/ask-ling/biling.cfm#delayed

Or here: http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/plc/clpp/bibliogs/CLDiMS.html

My child refuses to speak our native language. My son just turns his back on me when I speak my language to him -- what should I do?

As Professor Ruuskanen says, it is common for a child brought up in a place with a strong community language to reject a minority one. My own daughter, starting in a trilingual household, rejected everything but English when she was 2. When this happens it is because we have failed to provide the need for the language. In deciding on your reaction, you need think about your relationship with the child as well as about your desire for them to learn a language. My husband felt that he valued his relationship with her more than his language, and switched to English. Other people stick it out and sometimes the child ends up with a good knowledge. All of us have to accept that we cannot control our children's life experiences. They will be their own people and make their own life which will be different from our lives, and which will not be as we envisaged their lives would be. Accepting language shift is part of accepting generational differences. Don't try to control the environment too much, and if things go wrong, be accepting. Other things matter much more.

But apparently "the majority of posters here know better"...?

Edited October 19, 2013 by Forethat

[Forethat]

My daughter is equally fluent in both languages and has been since birth.

This has to be some sort of record..?

[transam]

Every single kid I know with a farang dad converses in dads language to dad and Thai with mum. Even my chums daughter (Thai mum) that was born in England and moved to LOS at the age of 7.....YES.....7, speaks English and Thai/Lao. Mum always since birth spoke in Thai/Lao, dad in English.

[Sayonarax]

Shame on Denmark for this treatment.

I bet if crown princess Mary's husband died she wouldn't be sent back to Tasmania with the kids.

Sent from my LG-E612 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

We don't want her back.

[Thai at Heart]

Something about this story can not be true!

I do not believe that the little girl can't speak Thai? Half of her life in Denmark, and she is 7 years old now ,, In fact that means that she was leaving Thailand when she was 3,5 Year old ? I'm Danish, and have a Thai son, when my boy was 3,5 Year old he spoke fluent Thai. Also I have many friends with kids living both in Thailand or Denmark,, I never saw or met one who could not speak Thai ,, Every Thai-mother will always speak Thai to her baby!

Anyway ,, I don't like the Danish system,,, In Denmark we are screaming for babyes because we are getting to many older people to take care of ,, And when we have a chance to get some people in,, we just kick them out !!

The child will speak Thai/Lao. Anyone who says otherwise is daft.

No you are wrong. Very very wrong. I have pointed this out numerous times but I'll do it again:

You need to do a little reading on the topic of "Speech Delay" and pay attention to stuff like bi- and multilingualism.

Making assumptions and refer to perfectly reasonable arguments as "daft" really is...daft.

Well, I am bi-lingual, was married to a bi-lingual woman and I have a bi-lingual daughter. My daughter is equally fluent in both languages and has been since birth. There was a short period (months) where she steadfastly refused to speak English, but that was a passing phase.

The probability that the Thai child does not speak Thai with her mother is close to zero.

The probability that the child speaks Danish is 1. (For people who have never witnessed it first hand, you would be amazed how quickly a 4 year old picks up a new language!)

In any case, I actually know a lot about multi lingual children first (my own) and second (a large number of my wife's students) hand . Having been married to an ESL teacher for a long time, had the opportunity to read her various texts on the subject of multi-lingualism (is that actually a word?).

The bottom line is it is almost inconceivable that the child does not speak Thai. Claim whatever you want, the majority of posters here know better.

There is no absolute guarantee that the Thai speaks Thai. There is also speaking Thai and speaking Thai if you know what I mean.

The mother has probably been through her Danish language training in Denmark, and conversed with husband in Danish. So how many hours per day would any child get off Thai? A couple?

So if mother is not acquainted with how to raise a bilingual child there is every chance that the child speaks little or at the extreme no Thai. The odds that the child can read our write Thai are also very slim.

Bilingualism has to be created and fostered. If parents don't know how to do it, it doesn't happen.

[Thai at Heart]

Every single kid I know with a farang dad converses in dads language to dad and Thai with mum. Even my chums daughter (Thai mum) that was born in England and moved to LOS at the age of 7.....YES.....7, speaks English and Thai/Lao. Mum always since birth spoke in Thai/Lao, dad in English.

You obviously haven't seen too many farang dad's attempting to talk to their kids in horrendous Thai. This is only to be outdone by the occasional view I used toget off wives at the kids old school berating their kids with bargirl Thai. "Whyee u cum late? We go Tesco, mummy late late mask".

Bilingualism takes discipline. Mum must speak only Thai, dad only English. No mixing, no confusion.

[transam]

The idea of a kid learning the two languages is linked to the kids future (and mums). Nooooooooo uni expense to learn another language to get a good job in the future.

Any humans learning curve is from birth, all those brain cells are taking it all in, and it is easy for a normal babe to take in different speech. Look at me, I speak English and cockney.

[DrDweeb]

My daughter is equally fluent in both languages and has been since birth.

This has to be some sort of record..?

You obviously don't speak English.

"Since birth" as used in this context is a turn of phrase, not a statement of chronological fact. A native English speaker would be instantly aware of this.

Oh, maybe that was an attempt at sarcasm?

[Forethat]

My point here is that if a nation grants probationary partner- or family supported resident permits, this shouldn't - and in most countries doesn't - alter an initial decision to grant probational residency.

For instance, numerous immigrants are granted probational residency in UK based on relationship or as relatives. Should UK deport those who immigrated on these conditions if the settled relative or partner suddenly dies? Of course not. And this is also the majority of nations in Europe manage immigration matters like this.

In this situation, we may curtail (cancel) your former partner's permission to stay in the UK. However, this will not automatically happen if the basis of their stay has changed - for example, they may qualify for permission to stay on a different basis, or there may be other compassionate or relevant reasons why it would not be appropriate to curtail their stay.

One of the more interesting cases from a legal perspective is when a partner enters UK as a partner to a UK citizen and later becomes subject to criminal acts (rape, domestic violence etc.) by the UK citizen. If the partnership ends should the immigrating partner now be deported because the conditions no longer applies?

When I read a few posters and their opinions - to which they are fully entitled, of course - I get the impression the money factor triggers the reptile brains.

Edited October 19, 2013 by Forethat

[DrDweeb]

My point here is that if a nation grants probationary partner- or family supported resident permits, this shouldn't - and in most countries doesn't - alter an initial decision to grant probational residency.

For instance, numerous immigrants are granted probational residency in UK based on relationship or as relatives. Should UK deport those who immigrated on these conditions if the settled relative or partner suddenly dies? Of course not. And this is also the majority of nations in Europe manage immigration matters like this.

In this situation, we may curtail (cancel) your former partner's permission to stay in the UK. However, this will not automatically happen if the basis of their stay has changed - for example, they may qualify for permission to stay on a different basis, or there may be other compassionate or relevant reasons why it would not be appropriate to curtail their stay.

One of the more interesting cases from a legal perspective is when a partner enters UK as a partner to a UK citizen and later becomes subject to criminal acts (rape, domestic violence etc.) by the UK citizen. If the partnership ends should the immigrating partner now be deported because the conditions no longer applies?

When I read a few posters and their opinions - to which they are fully entitled, of course - I get the impression the money factor triggers the reptile brains.

The laws in Denmark were tightened multiple times, so is hard to keep track.

One area specifically targeted was "arranged marriages" which are absolutely rampant in the now very substantial muslim immigrant community (an unintegrated shower of ... if ever there were one).

This problem is real and substantial in the aforementioned group.

However, since one cannot legislate against a specific ethnic group, the laws were framed in a way as to limit the possibilities, based on the demographics of the people generally involved.

There were a number of unintended side effects, this case being one of many.

Being the spouse of a Dane, does not attach very many rights. Danes are not actually good targets for bargirls for this reason (and that was part of the intent of the laws), because even if they snare one and get married in Denmark, a long time needs to pass before they can acquire the right to stay in Denmark (almost a decade these days I think). In my experience, Thai bar girls normally don't work with a planning horizon of a decade. The intended function of the immigration law is just that, to discourage abuse of the system.

In this particular case, based on the little information in the article, it would appear that the Thai in question despite being apparently well integrated and functioning within Danish society, is legally indistinguishable from a bargirl who got lucky to score someone to look after her, and got unlucky because he died too soon. The now more strict laws exist because the "liberal" laws were roundly abused previously by specific ethnic groups. There are always edge cases, there is no sense getting up in arms about it. In any case, the court is considering the case, so it is not like they have been cuffed and escorted to TG951.

[David48]

Well, I am bi-lingual, was married to a bi-lingual woman and I have a bi-lingual daughter. My daughter is equally fluent in both languages and has been since birth. There was a short period (months) where she steadfastly refused to speak English, but that was a passing phase.

The probability that the Thai child does not speak Thai with her mother is close to zero.

The probability that the child speaks Danish is 1. (For people who have never witnessed it first hand, you would be amazed how quickly a 4 year old picks up a new language!)

In any case, I actually know a lot about multi lingual children first (my own) and second (a large number of my wife's students) hand . Having been married to an ESL teacher for a long time, had the opportunity to read her various texts on the subject of multi-lingualism (is that actually a word?).

The bottom line is it is almost inconceivable that the child does not speak Thai. Claim whatever you want, the majority of posters here know better.

No, you're wrong. The correct statement is that a majority of posters here THINK they know better when in fact they are speculating and making assumptions.

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so - Mark Twain"

The scientific community is well familiar with this issue; linguistic abilities are commonly delayed for children in multilingual environments. If you want to learn more of the issues related to speech development in multilingual environments I suggest you start here: http://linguistlist.org/ask-ling/biling.cfm#delayed

Or here: http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/plc/clpp/bibliogs/CLDiMS.html

My child refuses to speak our native language. My son just turns his back on me when I speak my language to him -- what should I do?

As Professor Ruuskanen says, it is common for a child brought up in a place with a strong community language to reject a minority one. My own daughter, starting in a trilingual household, rejected everything but English when she was 2. When this happens it is because we have failed to provide the need for the language. In deciding on your reaction, you need think about your relationship with the child as well as about your desire for them to learn a language. My husband felt that he valued his relationship with her more than his language, and switched to English. Other people stick it out and sometimes the child ends up with a good knowledge. All of us have to accept that we cannot control our children's life experiences. They will be their own people and make their own life which will be different from our lives, and which will not be as we envisaged their lives would be. Accepting language shift is part of accepting generational differences. Don't try to control the environment too much, and if things go wrong, be accepting. Other things matter much more.

But apparently "the majority of posters here know better"...?

I have to be honest ... you appear to be clutching at straws more like it ... defending the indefensible position. Just let it go and acknowledge that you made an error ... it honestly doesn't hurt ...

So, thus far, on review, you have acclaimed to be Danish (in spirit ... as you have not affirmed your place of birth, though noted that you speak 3 or 4 languages and have worked in over 20 countries ... quite a man of the world from that self description), an Immigration Expert, and a now a Linguistic Expert.

The real Forethat ... please step forward and identify yourself.

If, for example, you have Thai children, who, by the age of 3 1/2 don't speak Thai ... say so.

But references to academic articles or papers 'doesn't cut the mustard' ... real life experiences count.

If you have them ... catalogue your experiences ... if not ... your posts are mute ... and just quietly ... both you and I know that ...

Edited October 19, 2013 by David48

[Forethat]

My point here is that if a nation grants probationary partner- or family supported resident permits, this shouldn't - and in most countries doesn't - alter an initial decision to grant probational residency.

For instance, numerous immigrants are granted probational residency in UK based on relationship or as relatives. Should UK deport those who immigrated on these conditions if the settled relative or partner suddenly dies? Of course not. And this is also the majority of nations in Europe manage immigration matters like this.

In this situation, we may curtail (cancel) your former partner's permission to stay in the UK. However, this will not automatically happen if the basis of their stay has changed - for example, they may qualify for permission to stay on a different basis, or there may be other compassionate or relevant reasons why it would not be appropriate to curtail their stay.

One of the more interesting cases from a legal perspective is when a partner enters UK as a partner to a UK citizen and later becomes subject to criminal acts (rape, domestic violence etc.) by the UK citizen. If the partnership ends should the immigrating partner now be deported because the conditions no longer applies?

When I read a few posters and their opinions - to which they are fully entitled, of course - I get the impression the money factor triggers the reptile brains.

The laws in Denmark were tightened multiple times, so is hard to keep track.

One area specifically targeted was "arranged marriages" which are absolutely rampant in the now very substantial muslim immigrant community (an unintegrated shower of ... if ever there were one).

This problem is real and substantial in the aforementioned group.

However, since one cannot legislate against a specific ethnic group, the laws were framed in a way as to limit the possibilities, based on the demographics of the people generally involved.

There were a number of unintended side effects, this case being one of many.

Being the spouse of a Dane, does not attach very many rights. Danes are not actually good targets for bargirls for this reason (and that was part of the intent of the laws), because even if they snare one and get married in Denmark, a long time needs to pass before they can acquire the right to stay in Denmark (almost a decade these days I think). In my experience, Thai bar girls normally don't work with a planning horizon of a decade. The intended function of the immigration law is just that, to discourage abuse of the system.

In this particular case, based on the little information in the article, it would appear that the Thai in question despite being apparently well integrated and functioning within Danish society, is legally indistinguishable from a bargirl who got lucky to score someone to look after her, and got unlucky because he died too soon. The now more strict laws exist because the "liberal" laws were roundly abused previously by specific ethnic groups. There are always edge cases, there is no sense getting up in arms about it. In any case, the court is considering the case, so it is not like they have been cuffed and escorted to TG951.

Agreed.

As I pointed out earlier, there is a humanitarian grounds section in Danish Immigration Law, and I understand this card is currently being played.

[DrDweeb]

Shame on Denmark for this treatment.

I bet if crown princess Mary's husband died she wouldn't be sent back to Tasmania with the kids.

Sent from my LG-E612 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

We don't want her back.

"Cruel, but fair"

But seriously, Maz id not a bad lass. I even excuse her for the "Hof dansk" she speaks (double entendre for the danish speaker) - it is a requirement for her.

She has changed a lot since when I first met her - they put her in "princess training" for over a year before she got hitched with The Prince. It is likely her current attitudes and demeanor might not integrate well in Tassie.

Her dad on the other hand is a cracking bloke. I shared quite a few beers with him one evening talking rugby.

[DrDweeb]

Well, I am bi-lingual, was married to a bi-lingual woman and I have a bi-lingual daughter. My daughter is equally fluent in both languages and has been since birth. There was a short period (months) where she steadfastly refused to speak English, but that was a passing phase.

The probability that the Thai child does not speak Thai with her mother is close to zero.

The probability that the child speaks Danish is 1. (For people who have never witnessed it first hand, you would be amazed how quickly a 4 year old picks up a new language!)

In any case, I actually know a lot about multi lingual children first (my own) and second (a large number of my wife's students) hand . Having been married to an ESL teacher for a long time, had the opportunity to read her various texts on the subject of multi-lingualism (is that actually a word?).

The bottom line is it is almost inconceivable that the child does not speak Thai. Claim whatever you want, the majority of posters here know better.

No, you're wrong. The correct statement is that a majority of posters here THINK they know better when in fact they are speculating and making assumptions.

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so - Mark Twain"

The scientific community is well familiar with this issue; linguistic abilities are commonly delayed for children in multilingual environments. If you want to learn more of the issues related to speech development in multilingual environments I suggest you start here: http://linguistlist.org/ask-ling/biling.cfm#delayed

Or here: http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/plc/clpp/bibliogs/CLDiMS.html

My child refuses to speak our native language. My son just turns his back on me when I speak my language to him -- what should I do?

As Professor Ruuskanen says, it is common for a child brought up in a place with a strong community language to reject a minority one. My own daughter, starting in a trilingual household, rejected everything but English when she was 2. When this happens it is because we have failed to provide the need for the language. In deciding on your reaction, you need think about your relationship with the child as well as about your desire for them to learn a language. My husband felt that he valued his relationship with her more than his language, and switched to English. Other people stick it out and sometimes the child ends up with a good knowledge. All of us have to accept that we cannot control our children's life experiences. They will be their own people and make their own life which will be different from our lives, and which will not be as we envisaged their lives would be. Accepting language shift is part of accepting generational differences. Don't try to control the environment too much, and if things go wrong, be accepting. Other things matter much more.

But apparently "the majority of posters here know better"...?

I have to be honest ... you appear to be clutching at straws more like it ... defending the indefensible position. Just let it go and acknowledge that you made an error ... it honestly doesn't hurt ...

So, thus far, on review, you have acclaimed to be Danish (in spirit ... as you have not affirmed your place of birth, though noted that you speak 3 or 4 languages and have worked in over 20 countries ... quite a man of the world from that self description), an Immigration Expert, and a now a Linguistic Expert.

The real Forethat ... please step forward and identify yourself.

If, for example, you have Thai children, who, by the age of 3 1/2 don't speak Thai ... say so.

But references to academic articles or papers 'doesn't cut the mustard' ... real life experiences count.

If you have them ... catalogue your experiences ... if not ... your posts are mute ... and just quietly ... both you and I know that ...

I don't want to be the "spelling nazi", but the word you are looking for is "moot".

"Mute" means to silence something, while "moot" means no practical relevance.

I seem to have seen this error several times lately

[Thai at Heart]

My point here is that if a nation grants probationary partner- or family supported resident permits, this shouldn't - and in most countries doesn't - alter an initial decision to grant probational residency.

For instance, numerous immigrants are granted probational residency in UK based on relationship or as relatives. Should UK deport those who immigrated on these conditions if the settled relative or partner suddenly dies? Of course not. And this is also the majority of nations in Europe manage immigration matters like this.

In this situation, we may curtail (cancel) your former partner's permission to stay in the UK. However, this will not automatically happen if the basis of their stay has changed - for example, they may qualify for permission to stay on a different basis, or there may be other compassionate or relevant reasons why it would not be appropriate to curtail their stay.

One of the more interesting cases from a legal perspective is when a partner enters UK as a partner to a UK citizen and later becomes subject to criminal acts (rape, domestic violence etc.) by the UK citizen. If the partnership ends should the immigrating partner now be deported because the conditions no longer applies?

When I read a few posters and their opinions - to which they are fully entitled, of course - I get the impression the money factor triggers the reptile brains.

Exactly

There can be numerous reasons why a relationship fails. Of course, the fact that a husband dies, leading to an instant deportation can be good for the husband's life expectancy.

I.e. Never tell your Thai wife in Thailand if you have a big life insurance policy.

Thing is, for all the cynical behaviour that does go on to obtain visas and access, to slam down on someone who had apparently done nothing wrong and only been caught up in this due to personal tragedy seems incredibly harsh.

[Forethat]

So, thus far, on review, you have acclaimed to be Danish (in spirit ... as you have not affirmed your place of birth, though noted that you speak 3 or 4 languages and have worked in over 20 countries ... quite a man of the world from that self description), an Immigration Expert, and a now a Linguistic Expert.

I speak considerably more languages than 3-4, and I have worked in considerably more countries than 20. Though I cant see how that is relevant here.

The real Forethat ... please step forward and identify yourself.

If, for example, you have Thai children, who, by the age of 3 1/2 don't speak Thai ... say so.

Since you're already showing signs of being a stalker, why dont you run a couple of searches on this forum and perhaps you'll find the answers in topics where that information is relevant, here it isn't. And if you feel it's relevant to your credibility to identify yourself, please go ahead and do so - though I won't expect or ask for it since it would make me look like a pathetic clown.