20 dead in Thai bus accident: police

[Rinrada]

The location appears related to Wat Ban Wang Mai Charoen Temple in Wang Nuea in Lampang which suggests that it must have been on the mountain section of the main CM highway....to Bangkok.

Having driven the route 4 times in the last 6 months I would have to comment that although the road is a bit of a nightmare,very twisty/curvey (as described)...but its to my mind its in GOOD condition and generally well maintained.

The biggest drawback as already mentioned is the mindset of some Thai drivers...(given them the benefit of the title)...

When they are good..then they are not too bad BUT when they are BAD ....Jesu C...whats the score and on the said road (as well as other similar) I tend to quietly shout ..".Slow Down you.F...k.rs.

Wifee just says.... up to them...maybe on ya ba....let them go...they crazy.......and stop shouting please....???

Sad state of affairs.

RIP the merit makers.

[Jim walker]

Sadly Thai people do not have a high or any regard for safety and these types of accidents will continue to happen on a regular basis, I am sure just because it is a curvy road 20 people had to die more to do with badly maintained vehicles being driven by badly trained drivers RIP to all those who died

[laolover88]

So Sad. Condolences

Not sure where this happened ..but if on the Chiang Mai Lampang Road the descent is appallingly engineered and no bus or anyone else slows down

[little mary sunshine]

RIP....Another probably avoidable loss of life. There really needs to be a law that

holds the OWNERS of the BUS SERVICE as well as the OWNERS OF THE MINIVAN

COMPANIES both Crimminaly and Civilaly Liable for the ACTIONS OF THEIR DRIVERS

AND EMPLOYEES.........The Owners and Executives of these Companies need to do some

hard jail time. Than and only than, will the drivers be given enough rest and told not to

speed instead to "go like hell" to get another "run in" to make a few hundred more baht

each day.

[MK1]

"I can't confirm the cause---he said--but the road was curvy"---------------<deleted>.. the road was the most probable cause, OR was it not driving according to conditions.

Pre-conditions also play a big part in the accident event occurring, as we know, such as whether or not the driver was driving under the influence of drug or alcohol? Including was bus driver competent (licensed) to drive the bus? Other factors might be was the Bus road worthy to drive, did speed play a part and not to mention ,as you say, the road conditions? Seat belts are only a secondary injury prevention measure, to reduce the effects of damaging kinetic energy, but plays significant part in the final outcome in determining who survives or not. Police and journalists these days are now hesitate on pointing at causation at the outset. Particular when they know, in the end, a significant number people who survive such tragedies eventually expose the embrassing truth without influence from others.

[sawadeeken]

The article seems to tell it like it is. It is way past time to police drivers hours of service, and I will be all for it, But many won't think ahead to the day they make and 'ENFORCE' such laws. the cost of such operation will go up drastically as companies have hire more drivers and pay big fines for trying to cheat. Then the cost of a bus ride today will increase many-fold. Truckers need the same, so products will increase in price. Then tourists (and mostly expats) won't come here because it costs the same as other modernized countries.

As I say, I'm for it bu,t is it realistic to see this happen in Thailand (Laos, Cambodia, Burma,etc)???? I think " not in this century"........... Written by a retired GREYHOUND bus driver from the USA

[Maggusoil]

You could also limit buses to say 70 kmh ? I believe European rules require a rest every 4 hours ?

This is the one annoying thing about Thailand as I have lost a number of friends due to the dangerous roads

Driving from Jomptien to Udon a nightmare, that's not the others on the road, it was POT HOLES 30 cm deap and road cracks to take down any Motor cycle, highway 331-304 and highway 2 from Korat to Udon most vehicles driving in the right hand lane. My car hit a pot hole and with it being full of water had no idea how deap. Most of the 8 hours were watching for holes and trying to swerve around them- disgusting state. Had to have a wheel change as my Mag wheel was bent and tyre wall slashed.

No wonder there are so many accidents/incidents.

I drove Khon Kaen to Korat and return two weeks ago for the first time in a long time and the road surface was terrible especially the long sections of ruts in the nearside lane. Drivers stick to the offside lane to avoid these and will not move over so consequently I have never seen so much overtaking on the inside.

Highway 2 is an important high density road and no doubt the heavy vehicles on a poorly finished surface has, and is, causing the damage but repair doesn't seem to be any sort of priority.

After the road contractor pays bribes to get the contract, for which he had to bid lower than everyone else, and then kickbacks to suppliers, I'm surprised the roads aren't worse.

We had our local roads fall apart after six months of being resealed. Hopeless job by a cheap contractor who spared the materials.

However it really does cut the speed down like nothing else.

This is one area where the government has a real job to do in Thailand.

The fatality rate here is absolutely out of step with Thailand's development as a modern nation.

An online petition could be a good pressure point.

[Fullstop]

You'd think when something happens on a daily basis ... it's not news anymore.

[mok199]

Please, please, please not again !

How are you supposed to travel in this country?? Bus?To dangerous! Minivan?Deadtraps with speeding drivers! Train? Derailments a daily occurrance! Fly? And slide of the runway! Drive private car? With the road full of drunk/drugged drivers!

Only way to survive, seems to be, stay home!

Hope those who died in this tragedy didn't suffer....

correct..!!!....we are all just a bunch of statistics waiting to happen,life is about luck and timing.....or....bring back the rickshaw....just what thailand needs 4 lanes of slow moving wicker vehicles....

[mauGR1]

The article seems to tell it like it is. It is way past time to police drivers hours of service, and I will be all for it, But many won't think ahead to the day they make and 'ENFORCE' such laws. the cost of such operation will go up drastically as companies have hire more drivers and pay big fines for trying to cheat. Then the cost of a bus ride today will increase many-fold. Truckers need the same, so products will increase in price. Then tourists (and mostly expats) won't come here because it costs the same as other modernized countries.

As I say, I'm for it bu,t is it realistic to see this happen in Thailand (Laos, Cambodia, Burma,etc)???? I think " not in this century"........... Written by a retired GREYHOUND bus driver from the USA

That makes sense... I guess we know the answer, should we ask a Thai worker if he/she likes to pay double price for transportation.

RIP to the deceased.

[Torrens54]

May the deceased Rest In Peace and the injured make a full and speedy recovery.

Not blaming the crash (not an Accident, I suspect) on anyone as yet, but why do Thai authorities just allow so many idiots to drive cars, trucks, buses or other vehicles?

Why do they allow clearly un-safe vehicles on the roads?

Why don't they Fix the Roads....and the Rails for that matter?

Is it simply because there are TOO MANY People in "authority" getting their Palms "Greased", in Blood as it seems?

Edited October 24, 2013 by Torrens54

[bangon04]

AGAIN??????!!!!!!!

[stickylies]

Thailand is a good 40-50 years behind the western world on Road Safty

thailand is good 40-50 years behind the western world on everything, except consumerism and facebook addiction where they surpassed us. this is not bashing, this is the truth. it's a great country with some great people but they haven't got a clue about so many things. that's because they rarely leave their own country (ie. see alternatives) and are utterly rigid (conservative). all thai people i know and consider friends have NO INTENTION whatsoever to change. eg. nearly all drink and drive and consider it "ok"... nearly all think a buddhist shrine on the dashboard can do miracles. useless...

Edited October 24, 2013 by stickylies

[BlackJack]

Last nights floods in jomtien saw some unbelievable driving on footlpaths across double lines and through redights - one can only expect more.

[crazydrummerpauly]

Driving too fast, brakes crap,don't know how to use gears to slow vehicle down,

so no seat belts on that bus. RIP

regards Worgeordie

Just in the interests of safety - changing down on a diesel truck or bus does very little to slow the vehicle - that's only applicable to petrol engines with their higher cylinder-compression numbers.

[ozzydom]

Driving too fast, brakes crap,don't know how to use gears to slow vehicle down,

so no seat belts on that bus. RIP

regards Worgeordie

Just in the interests of safety - changing down on a diesel truck or bus does very little to slow the vehicle - that's only applicable to petrol engines with their higher cylinder-compression numbers.

You dont know what you are talking about.

Petrol engines average about 10-1 compression ratio

Diesel engines average 14/16-1 0n direct injection engines and 18/23-1 on indirect injection

[rotorbreeze]

Please, please, please not again !

How are you supposed to travel in this country?? Bus?To dangerous! Minivan?Deadtraps with speeding drivers! Train? Derailments a daily occurrance! Fly? And slide of the runway! Drive private car? With the road full of drunk/drugged drivers!

Only way to survive, seems to be, stay home!

Hope those who died in this tragedy didn't suffer.

Best time to travel is when no celibrations are causing Kaois on roads..go to Bkk when everyone is leaving...travel 7 am Sunday morning no traffic, most of the drunk divers are road side or in hospital. Tour buses have increased the wait time during driving here in Pattaya..like elephants in a china shop..lumbering slowly while smaller vehicles scamper to a frow around the beast..only to meet another one turning the opposite direction..while another is parked along side..great...I have a PCX 125cc and can get around and excape quickly to other cyclists loaded down with passengers seem magneticly attracted to each..inches away swaying like reeds swaying in breeze.

Yes you are right Stay AT HOME... or increase your odds at the casio road traffice...travel when others do NOT...

[kevc]

Sad but there are always going to be accidents no matter how many seat belts or cameras they put in buses as long as the driver has no idea of how to behave on the road. As long as you can drive in a straight line and turn corners you can drive anything. No understanding of road conditions rules of the road or use of mirrors that's what needs to be addressed not seat belts so when the incompetent driver crashes you have a chance to survive, that's a bit like closing the stable door once the horse has bolted.

[Angeledge777]

The road to Chiang Mai is dangerous and no one deserves to die. RIP and fastt recovery for those who survived.

[bangon04]

"who were returning home after making merit at Wat Ban Wang Mai Charoen Temple in Wang Nuea in Lampang."

Not enough merits it seems..

Brake Failure on a modern vehicle means at least 2 systems have failed. If one fails and nothing is done then total brake failure may well follow.

My limited observations of Thai police forensic skills suggests that they do not check to verify if a brake failure actually took place. Does anyone know?

[cheshiremusicman]

Driving too fast, brakes crap,don't know how to use gears to slow vehicle down,

so no seat belts on that bus. RIP

regards Worgeordie

Requiring log books that record distance traveled as well as breaks would go a long way also. Of course then there's the enforcement part...

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You could also limit buses to say 70 kmh ? I believe European rules require a rest every 4 hours ?

This is the one annoying thing about Thailand as I have lost a number of friends due to the dangerous roads

Yet another very sad accident and loss of life caused by goodness knows what?

One of the factors that I believe is contributory is the fact that many coaches and buses have been involved in previous crashes and a lot of them are driving on bent chassis's and you can see that they are 'crabbing' as you follow them. Goodness knows what happens when they have to brake, or take avoiding action especially when the road is wet! The same applies to lots and lots of the pcikup trucks and saloon cars that you see on the roads. There is supposed to be a record/check on vehicles that have been 'written off', but this would now appear to be a total joke. A friend of mine (who has worked in the motor trade for over 30 years and knows his stuff) bought a second hand Toyota about a year ago and everything appeared to be fine until he started to get 'seat belt tensioner failures'. When the second one failed shortly after the first he decided to strip it down himself and found to his horror it was full of rust and then the penny dropped; this car had been in the floods. He decided not to spend any more money on it after having the the seat belt units replaced by a dealership and traded it in for a new pickup. Three months after he had bought the pickup, the dealership came back and told him that he had traded in a car which had been written off and proceeded to sue him. He fought this and won eventually after some 7 months; proving that he had bought the car legitimately and had paid insurance, road tax etc on it in his own name and nothing buth nothing had been flagged up when he had done this. The only reason apparently that the dealership came up with this was because the person who wanted to buy the car from them had had to get a loan in order to buy it and it was the 'Finance Co' that came up with the 'written off' information. The total irony of this situation is; that even though this info came to light; the dealership eventually sold on the vehicle in the full knowledge that it had been flagged as 'written off'. Talk about 'double standards'. It makes you wonder just how many of the thousands of vehicles that were involved in last years floods are now on the roads with potential catastrophic failures awaiting them.

[arminbkk]

My heartfelt condolences to all involved!

"A tour bus carrying elderly Buddhist devotees plunged into a ravine in northern Thailand on Wednesday, leaving at least 20 people dead and 16 injured, police said."

"The victims were returning from a religious ceremony when the vehicle left the road,...."

How does a Buddhist explain this?

Seriously. Is it (partly) put down to bad karma? Is that why safe driving and vehicle maintenance are not important issues?

[FarangTalk]

"who were returning home after making merit at Wat Ban Wang Mai Charoen Temple in Wang Nuea in Lampang."

Not enough merits it seems..

Brake Failure on a modern vehicle means at least 2 systems have failed. If one fails and nothing is done then total brake failure may well follow.

My limited observations of Thai police forensic skills suggests that they do not check to verify if a brake failure actually took place. Does anyone know?

Indeed but these Thai VIP buses are not 'modern vehicles'. They are often made from wood frames, with second-hand, used components or sub-standard, inferior parts and hand assembled in locally based garages, without safety testing and verification.

They definitely look good enough to fool most people into thinking they have been engineered. However it is all smoke and mirrors as usual.

As to forensic skills there is only one arguably incompetent forensic scientist in the country (and she still thinks the GT200 fake bomb scanner works) let alone skilled accident investigators of any kind.

[Doc46]

Ehhh,life is very cheap here,,,there are many million people here so they think nothing of it a few more death or not,,,,,,,,safety and safety road rules are not a problem, because they don't exist,, <deleted> nobody cares,,,why should we ???????????????????

[kiwijack]

As regrettable, and avoidable, that these accidents are one needs to keep them in perspective and not assume ALL travel at the same risk.

I travel regularly between Burirum and BKK and only use Nakhonchaiair Bus company, as Baloo 22 mentioned. Its a 5 hour trip or so and they change drivers half way, every time, and I have never had an even scary incident in 10 years travelling with them. The buses are newish, etc etc and their track record speaks for itself. So Thai companys can and do operate at international safety standards, if they have a mind to.The only problem is that they obviously don't go everywhere but they do service the major cities. Check them out .

[Thait Spot]

Maybe this will spur another set of crackdowns that never take place.........

[umbanda]

The police spokesman made the ridiculous statement that the road is ' curvy ' but I suppose, at least, he didn't blame the rain this time.

That would be a road that has curves. What is ridiculous about that? Perhaps more ridiculous is describing that description as ridiculous.

The accident happens on the road Phayao-Lampang, that I drove many times with my wife at the wheel....It is a nice and wide road, but really curvy. It is a 90 degrees curve. Really, 90 degrees!.... that I do not know how people can see it driving at night. Not signs at all. My wife drives fast even if I do not agree with that, but we have a brand new small car. Now I regret not getting a big truck. With a very old car....drive there at night or with rain is suicidal...

[ginjag]

The police spokesman made the ridiculous statement that the road is ' curvy ' but I suppose, at least, he didn't blame the rain this time.

That would be a road that has curves. What is ridiculous about that? Perhaps more ridiculous is describing that description as ridiculous.

The accident happens on the road Phayao-Lampang, that I drove many times with my wife at the wheel....It is a nice and wide road, but really curvy. It is a 90 degrees curve. Really, 90 degrees!.... that I do not know how people can see it driving at night. Not signs at all. My wife drives fast even if I do not agree with that, but we have a brand new small car. Now I regret not getting a big truck. With a very old car....drive there at night or with rain is suicidal...

Your wife drives fast and you do not agree with it ???? tell her to slow down then-or don't have her drive, get a grip mate, these Thai wives seem to control foreigners why put up with it, If I was scared I wouldn't be in the car, if you as a passenger thinks it's fast, do something about it. just saying-no it's not my business I know.

[TechnikaIII]

Please, please, please not again !

How are you supposed to travel in this country?? Bus?To dangerous! Minivan?Deadtraps with speeding drivers! Train? Derailments a daily occurrance! Fly? And slide of the runway! Drive private car? With the road full of drunk/drugged drivers!

Only way to survive, seems to be, stay home!

Hope those who died in this tragedy didn't suffer.

Actually, I would choose the train any day, above all else, aside from my bicycle for local journeys, venturing no further than 20km. Train derailments have caused delays and inconvenience, but as far as I know, no deaths this year. Or have I missed something?

For short trips, say 20km or so, the vans from my place don't get the opportunity to reach supersonic speeds, So are a reasonably safe bet. The roads are flat, and not especially curvy.

On the other hand, on every trip from Nakhon Sawan to Mae Sot, bus and coach, there have been near misses, and we have driven past the aftermath of serious accidents, including fatalities, with bodies slumped over wheels and one most graphic scene with the deceased, a young woman, half out of the windscreen, having slammed her smart little car into the back of truck. People standing around smoking, chatting, waiting for the non-existent emergency vehicles. (Mae Sot has since been off my radar.) For visas I take the train to Malaysia.

[Emdog]

Jeez.... keep reading these week after week after week..... indignation and outrage are appropriate response because so many of these are so easily preventable..... a numbness sets in, with the mind saying various messages like "what do you expect when greed conquers human decency?" etc. It's gotten beyond the stage of throwing one's hands up... you would wear your hand out long before you could ever finish slapping those who could make a difference, whose job it is to serve the public. It is pathetic beyond measure.