Need to take large amount if $$ out if Thailand

[taxout]

Structuring a transaction in order to avoid bank reporting requirements -- like all these ideas here to break a large transaction down into smaller amounts -- is ITSELF a violation of US law. 31 USC 5324(a)(3), 31 USC 5324( c )(3).

http://www.ffiec.gov/bsa_aml_infobase/pages_manual/regulations/31USC5324.htm

Edited October 26, 2013 by taxout

[XINLOI]

Per person limit without declaration is US$ 20,000, I think.

It is US 10,000 and more requires declaration.

[sawadeeken]

There's an easier way.

Send it to me, and I'll do a special trip to the US to deliver it to you. Email me for my bank details. It doesn't get any easier than that.

You sound like a nice helpful guy, I'll guess that you are probably one of those 'nice' Nigerian blokes just trying to be helpful. ...............

Just kidding, of course.......... Cute reply

[aveabeeror2]

This whole topic infuriates me to no end! The IRS and the "banksters" really are the scourge of this planet! Here's another option - bring the maximum amount you can without alerting the Nazi IRS and buy the rest in Thai 24K gold. Just buy chains and wear them like Mr. T on the flight home. Later, either cash the metal in or keep it locked up for future use. The metal might lose a bit of value or gain some? It's better than giving your hard-earned cash to the Vatican? Are you a Christian? Do you go to church on a regular basis? Do you believe in unknowingly donating to the fine folks in Rome?

Don't give the illegal, fraudulent IRS any more ammunition to seize your funds for their personal endeavors.

Sorry for the rant, but this s*** has gotten waaaaaay out of hand. I hope I did not use inappropriate words or terminology in this, my first, post here on TVF.

P.S. - The use of the word "Nazis", was not intended to be derogatory towards the German people in any way. It was however directly intended towards the ideology of said group! Follow Nusquams advice about taking stacks of gold into your countrty and you will really be in heavy import duty shxx.(TV, full of experts)

[MrWorldwide]

Hi

I am assuming that your dollars are not in a bank then. If they are you can arrange with the bank for a bank cheque or wire it back.

I brought over from NZ $20k but I never declared it. I think you would have the main problem in the US they would probably pick it up on the scans.

Buy a bar of gold or gold coins.

20K NZD is less than 20K USD. A lot less .....

[MrWorldwide]

At one stage, any attempt to leave the country with Thai gold that was not in jewelry form was considered a criminal act - not sure what the current ruling is, but I'd be checking that very closely well before I got anywhere near the airport.

[Pacifica]

Two of your buddies going back taking 9,999 each?

Splitting amounts into smaller amounts to avoid reporting requirements is "money structuring" which is also ilegal.

See http://www.irs.gov/irm/part4/irm_04-026-013.html

Be very careful with that!

[wooloomooloo]

Be very careful with that!

I'm glad I'm not a US citizen.

In the not too distant future the dollar, hopefully, will be relegated to a lesser currency. GBP suits me fine.

The weakness of the dollar and over regulation will consign it second rate. Notwithstanding, China owns the US. Mark my words.

[RabC]

Thanks, it was ten years ago, and the money was perfectly legal, it does not matter now, but it might help some poster who is thinking about doing the same thing.

Twice in recent years there have been sniffer dogs actually in the Air Bridge prior to boarding a Thai flight from LHR to BKK, On one occasion I said to one of the handlers it was a bit late to be looking for explosives and he informed me they were "money" dogs, trained to smell and indicate on cash. I guess the UK certainly thinks there's dodgy money heading to Thailand.

[Maestro]

Make a bank transfer (remittance) from your Thai bank account to your US bank account.

[khaowong1]

This whole topic infuriates me to no end! The IRS and the "banksters" really are the scourge of this planet! Here's another option - bring the maximum amount you can without alerting the Nazi IRS and buy the rest in Thai 24K gold. Just buy chains and wear them like Mr. T on the flight home. Later, either cash the metal in or keep it locked up for future use. The metal might lose a bit of value or gain some? It's better than giving your hard-earned cash to the Vatican? Are you a Christian? Do you go to church on a regular basis? Do you believe in unknowingly donating to the fine folks in Rome?

Don't give the illegal, fraudulent IRS any more ammunition to seize your funds for their personal endeavors.

Sorry for the rant, but this s*** has gotten waaaaaay out of hand. I hope I did not use inappropriate words or terminology in this, my first, post here on TVF.

P.S. - The use of the word "Nazis", was not intended to be derogatory towards the German people in any way. It was however directly intended towards the ideology of said group!

Seriously! You need to cut down on your caffeine intake! And/or do some meditation.

If the OP wants to carry that much cash with him, he just needs to declare it to Customs when he enters the U.S. It probably would not be a bad idea to keep a copy of the record(s) of the wire transfer(s) that he did moving the money out of the US. Then, if any questions are asked, he can show them that.

See "How much currency / money / monetary instruments can I bring into the U.S.?"

There is no super double-secret nefarious conspiracy behind this requirement and other associated required reporting that banks must do. It's a result of the "Currency and Foreign Transactions Reporting Act" and is part of the efforts to fight against money laundering operations, primarily by organized crime and narcotics trafficking organizations.

And known or un-known terrorist organizations. If you can show that you originally had the money before transferring it to Thailand, you probably won't have nay problems with the IRS.

[iamariva1957]

The only way is to wire the money back. Be careful though. I would not do it all at once. The US requires sums over a certain amount (check for present figure on the Net) to be flagged for investigation. Also the IRS will want to see those funds declared at tax time. So transfer the money in small amounts, say 10K or less at a time. Give it sometime between transfers as well. It just looks better.

Either go through your bank here and arrange those transfers or go through an online transfer company (Xoom.com comes to mind... though I am not sure about Thailand to US). Their costs will be lower than what the bank will charge. Make sure that you have the right iban or Swift number of your US bank along with the account number and name on the account.

You have a 10K limit on funds that you can bring back into the US in cash. It has to be declared with a 10% charge for anything over that... not to mention the nice little chat you will have with US Customs at the time of entry!

Someone in this thread mentions buying gold. That will not really work. Importation of precious metals is a definite red flag. Diamonds are easier to carry and one will set you back your 30K if you look for right one. But why risk things? Just do it the right way and follow the rules and you will not be nervous at Customs... which will do nothing more than make them notice you.

As for cash sniffer dogs at LHR? Right. That I believe... not. That sounds like a ruse to get you to become nervous. Besides I think that the writer of that line here was lucky he did not get pulled in for mentioning explosives at an airport!

[Baloo22]

The only way is to wire the money back. Be careful though. I would not do it all at once. The US requires sums over a certain amount (check for present figure on the Net) to be flagged for investigation. Also the IRS will want to see those funds declared at tax time. So transfer the money in small amounts, say 10K or less at a time. Give it sometime between transfers as well. It just looks better.

Either go through your bank here and arrange those transfers or go through an online transfer company (Xoom.com comes to mind... though I am not sure about Thailand to US). Their costs will be lower than what the bank will charge. Make sure that you have the right iban or Swift number of your US bank along with the account number and name on the account.

You have a 10K limit on funds that you can bring back into the US in cash. It has to be declared with a 10% charge for anything over that... not to mention the nice little chat you will have with US Customs at the time of entry!

Someone in this thread mentions buying gold. That will not really work. Importation of precious metals is a definite red flag. Diamonds are easier to carry and one will set you back your 30K if you look for right one. But why risk things? Just do it the right way and follow the rules and you will not be nervous at Customs... which will do nothing more than make them notice you.

As for cash sniffer dogs at LHR? Right. That I believe... not. That sounds like a ruse to get you to become nervous. Besides I think that the writer of that line here was lucky he did not get pulled in for mentioning explosives at an airport!

Your comment has a number of factual errors, items of nonsense, and one statement that is really good and accurate.

First; "Also the IRS will want to see those funds declared at tax time." Not necessarily. If this money is from previous income and he has previously declared it on his tax filings, he won't have to declare it again. If it is "new" income or the sourcing is "complicated", consulting a tax accountant or other such tax professional would be a good idea.

Second; "You have a 10K limit on funds that you can bring back into the US in cash. It has to be declared with a 10% charge for anything over that..."

Totally false! Total crap! See "How much currency / money / monetary instruments can I bring into the U.S.?"

There is no limit on the amount of money that can be taken out of or brought into the United States. However, if a person or persons traveling together and filing a joint declaration (CBP Form 6059- have $10,000 or more in currency or negotiable monetary instruments, they must fill out a "Report of International Transportation of Currency and Monetary Instruments" FinCEN 105 (former CF 4790).

If assistance is required, a Customs and Border Protection (CBP) Officer can help with filling out the form.

......

There is more info at the link above.

The one statement that you made that actually is valid and has some worth to it is:

"But why risk things? Just do it the right way and follow the rules and you will not be nervous at Customs... which will do nothing more than make them notice you."

[Nusquam Humanitus]

Posted Yesterday, 04:41

Nusquam Humanitus, on 25 Oct 2013 - 13:09, said:

This whole topic infuriates me to no end! The IRS and the "banksters" really are the scourge of this planet!directly intended towards the ideology of said group!

The banksters have nothing to do with it. They'd rather do without it as it creates more work.

I strongly disagree! Sure, they don't actually do the work themselves. They pay secondary individuals very well to do the menial work. Please, make no mistake about it, the upper-echelon bankers had EVERYTHING to do with it.

Watch for more, invasive capital controls in the near future. The whole Chase Bank scenario which was previously mentioned, is probably just the beginning. First it's business banking (potential for large sums of capital flight), next it will be the guy who worked very hard and wants to transfer $30K back ti his home country.

[Baloo22]

To the OP:

Ignore all the nonsense crap of splitting up cash among three persons, rants about "banksters", Indonesian girls wearing it as jewelry or baking jewelry inside their cakes, and aliens from Alpha Centauri (undoubtedly the "greys") with their bitcoins.

As some intelligent BMs have said, go to one of the major banks here and see if they can:

1. Wire transfer the money to your account in the U.S. You don't need to "split it up" either.

2. Issue you a cashiers check / bank cheque that you can take back with you.

If you do take it back to the U.S. with you as a "negotiable monetary instrument" like a cashiers check or cash (personally I would avoid carrying around that much cash) just follow the law and declare it. I'm assuming that the money was legally obtained by you, and thus, there is no reason or justification for you to try to "sneak" it through U.S. Customs.

[taxout]

You do not need to declare a cashier's check or money order payable to your order which you have not yet endorsed.

http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/newsroom/publications/travel/currency_rpt_flyer/currency_reporting.ctt/currency_reporting.pdf

[true blue]

The only way is to wire the money back. Be careful though. I would not do it all at once. The US requires sums over a certain amount (check for present figure on the Net) to be flagged for investigation. Also the IRS will want to see those funds declared at tax time. So transfer the money in small amounts, say 10K or less at a time. Give it sometime between transfers as well. It just looks better.

Either go through your bank here and arrange those transfers or go through an online transfer company (Xoom.com comes to mind... though I am not sure about Thailand to US). Their costs will be lower than what the bank will charge. Make sure that you have the right iban or Swift number of your US bank along with the account number and name on the account.

You have a 10K limit on funds that you can bring back into the US in cash. It has to be declared with a 10% charge for anything over that... not to mention the nice little chat you will have with US Customs at the time of entry!

Someone in this thread mentions buying gold. That will not really work. Importation of precious metals is a definite red flag. Diamonds are easier to carry and one will set you back your 30K if you look for right one. But why risk things? Just do it the right way and follow the rules and you will not be nervous at Customs... which will do nothing more than make them notice you.

As for cash sniffer dogs at LHR? Right. That I believe... not. That sounds like a ruse to get you to become nervous. Besides I think that the writer of that line here was lucky he did not get pulled in for mentioning explosives at an airport!

about 5/6 years ago at manchester airport,a policeman with a big dog with him, had pulled over a indian guy and was questioning him,being noisy i asked a 2nd policeman what was the proplem,he said dog was trained to spot if anyone was carrying large amount of money on there person.

[MrWorldwide]

To the OP:

Ignore all the nonsense crap of splitting up cash among three persons, rants about "banksters", Indonesian girls wearing it as jewelry or baking jewelry inside their cakes, and aliens from Alpha Centauri (undoubtedly the "greys") with their bitcoins.

As some intelligent BMs have said, go to one of the major banks here and see if they can:

1. Wire transfer the money to your account in the U.S. You don't need to "split it up" either.

2. Issue you a cashiers check / bank cheque that you can take back with you.

If you do take it back to the U.S. with you as a "negotiable monetary instrument" like a cashiers check or cash (personally I would avoid carrying around that much cash) just follow the law and declare it. I'm assuming that the money was legally obtained by you, and thus, there is no reason or justification for you to try to "sneak" it through U.S. Customs.

Thanks, baloo22 - it only took us 4 pages to get to this point. Some of us did try to post factual info, but it got lost in the noise. Some of the suggestions in this thread simply boggle the mind, but I'm going to go with the Bank Of Thailand guidelines over people plucking a figure out of their butts.

[Arkady]

Yes.

Any person bringing into or taking out of Thailand foreign currency bank notes in an aggregate amount exceeding USD 20,000 or its equivalent must declare to a customs officer.

http://www.bot.or.th/English/ForeignExchangeRegulations/FXRegulation/Pages/ExchangeControlLaw.aspx

I think you need the Thor Tor 3 document from the Bank of Thailand that you should have got from the receiving Thai bank at the time to export amounts of over USD 20k. If you have that, if it is quite straightforward. Otherwise, you will need to remit in tranches.

[beautifulthailand99]

Yes.

Any person bringing into or taking out of Thailand foreign currency bank notes in an aggregate amount exceeding USD 20,000 or its equivalent must declare to a customs officer.

http://www.bot.or.th/English/ForeignExchangeRegulations/FXRegulation/Pages/ExchangeControlLaw.aspx

I brought about 35000GBP into Thailand from the UK, so it would seem I should have declared it, the only way I would have been caught is in a routine check. If that had happened, would the customs have taken some of it off me?

[hopdafru]

ONE word;

BITCOIN!

Can you contact me directly explaining the bitcoin and how it works?

Bitcoin is very volatile and I'm not sure how to transform bitcoins back into US$.

The swap idea is a good one, used by offshore banks to move money for their customers, without moving it, basically invisible... expensive think and usually for large sums of money (ie much more than $30k)

Also, be very careful with transporting money or wiring it without proper declaration here AND in the US where the IRS could make the thai tax authorities look like nice kids playing in the park. Money now has metallic ink which will show up on airport scanners, try putting a magnet over a $100 bill & see for yourself.

Chokdee

[somchaismith]

Easy Peasy, deposit the said dosh into your paypal account. Next, once you reach your destination, open a bank account. Withdraw your paypal monies into your new account. Bingo, what's wrong with that?

[hopdafru]

Easy Peasy, deposit the said dosh into your paypal account. Next, once you reach your destination, open a bank account. Withdraw your paypal monies into your new account. Bingo, what's wrong with that?

They will invoke the not so new terrorism laws or accuse him of human trafficking or simply initiate one of the following:

• A BSA examination,

• An IRC § 6050I examination, or

• An income tax examination.

they might fine him for not disclosing an account in his IRS form (a guy recently got fined 1500 Euros in France for not disclosing a pp account with $20 on it... and France can't be worse that the land of the free...

And I don't know if transferring $30k from Thai Bank to pp is easy peasy, maybe it is, I don't know, but something tells me it's not, just doesn't pass my smell test IMO.

Being a US citizen can really be a headache. The US is one of two (or 3?) countries in the world (about 200 countries...) which taxes its citizens wherever they live. Thus creating the need for double tax treaties to avoid double taxation.

If my memory serves me correctly, there were about 40 of those countries 10 years ago, so if you live in a non-treaty country, you pay twice and I don't think the IRS cares that much.

There are a bunch of Americans returning their passport and abandoning US citizenship for this reason alone, but new laws are into effect to make sure people still pay Big Brother.

Edited October 27, 2013 by hopdafru

[somchaismith]

^I wasn't aware that the op was cleaning his bills.

[hopdafru]

http://menwithpens.ca/money-matters-part-1-of-6-declaring-paypal-income/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24135021

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2013-08-09/americans-giving-up-passports-jump-sixfold-as-tougher-rules-loom

FATCA is an interesting new headache for US citizens residing in LOS (and elsewhere) to look into...

[Time Traveller]

I think you need the Thor Tor 3 document from the Bank of Thailand that you should have got from the receiving Thai bank at the time to export amounts of over USD 20k. If you have that, if it is quite straightforward. Otherwise, you will need to remit in tranches.

That's only if he has no certified source of the funds originating in thailand.

[iamariva1957]

Baloo22:

Your commeht to me was uncalled for. Your tag line sort of tells me that you are a Republican and though I am no Democrat, you should keep the "crap"lines to yourself as they serve no real purpose here.

First of all:

Re: Also the IRS will want to see those funds... "Not necessarily. If this money is from previous income and he has previously declared it on his tax filings, he won't have to declare it again. If it is "new" income or the sourcing is "complicated", consulting a tax accountant or other such tax professional would be a good idea."

Though this is true My statement was in general terms. Strange you could not figure that out. Or should I have quoted the US Tax Code in full? Your suggestion that this person might want to consider talking to a tax professional is, of course, a very good idea. Certainly I never would suggest doing anything else but that.

Second:

Re: "You have a 10K limit on funds..."

"Totally false! Total crap!"

When was the last time you brought 10K or over into the US? I have and that is what I was told so I am speaking from experience. Also, on the US Customs form (you are handed on the plane prior to arrival into the US) there is a box that clearly asks if you are bringing in 10K or more in currency. Mark it and you will be asked about it. For it is a declaration to US Customs by you and so you are liable to be asked to explain it. The US is very definite about this, especially in these times of terrorist activity. But again I was talking in general terms, though would it have been clearer if had listed the entire US Customs' code on the subject?

Have a nice day.

[iamariva1957]

This is especially for Baloo22 and for the original poster on this subject.

The following is the complete stand on the matter as per the US Customs' web page, word for word (I underlined certain details). Oh and yes, I speak from experience. I took back into the US 10K in Swiss Francs and spent a nice 15 minutes with an officer answering questions, even though I filled out the required form. It is their job after all.

There is no limit on the amount of money that can be taken out of or brought into the United States. However, if a person or persons traveling together and filing a joint declaration (CBP Form 6059-have $10,000 or more in currency or negotiable monetary instruments, they must fill out a "Report of International Transportation of Currency and Monetary Instruments" FinCEN 105 (former CF 4790).

Please be aware, if persons/family members traveling together have $10,000 or more, they cannot divide the currency between each other to avoid declaring the currency.

For example, if one person is carrying $5,000 and the other has $6,000, they have a total of $11, 000 in their possession and must report it on a FinCEN 105. If a person or family fails to declare their monetary instruments in amounts of over $10,000, their monetary instrument(s) may be subject to forfeiture and could result to civil and criminal penalties.

The FinCEN 105 can be obtained prior to traveling or when going through CBP.

Customs and Border Protection (CBP) does not collect duty on currency. However, travelers leaving or entering the U.S. are required to report negotiable monetary instruments (i.e. currency or endorsed checks) valued at $10,000 or more on a "Report of International Transportation of Currency or Monetary Instruments" form FinCEN 105.

You can obtain the form in advance and download it from here FinCEN 105, or a CBP Officer can give it to you upon your departure or return to the U.S.

Failure to declare currency in amounts of over $10,000 can result in its seizure.

Information on the FinCEN 105 is provided to the Internal Revenue Service (IRS), and they determine whether or not the importation of monies constitutes income subject to taxation.

The requirement to report currency on a FinCEN 105 does not apply to imports of gold bullion.

Negotiable monetary instruments that must be reported by travelers or persons sending or receiving them (other then by electronic means by a banking concern) are:

• Coin or currency from the U.S. and/or other countries, including gold coins*
• Travelers Checks
• Checks, promissory notes or money orders that can be cashed by the bearer. This includes checks or money orders made out to someone other than the bearer that are endorsed without restriction (i.e. for deposit only.), and incomplete checks, money orders, promissory notes that are signed but on which the name of the payee has been omitted (the "To" line is left blank)
• Securities or stocks in bearer form

You can obtain the currency reporting form FinCEN 105 for more information. Monetary instruments that are made payable to a named person, but are not endorsed or which bear restrictive endorsements are not subject to reporting requirements, nor are credit cards with credit lines of over $10,000.

Gold Bullion is not a monetary instrument for purposes of this requirement, but still must be declared upon entry.

*There is no duty on gold coins, medals or bullion but these items must be declared to a Customs and Border Protection (CBP) Officer. Please note a FinCEN 105 form must be completed at the time of entry for monetary instruments over $10,000. This includes currency, ie. gold coins, valued over $10,000. The FINCEN definition of currency: The coin and paper money of the United States or any other country that is (1) designated as legal tender and that (2) circulates and (3) is customarily accepted as a medium of exchange in the country of issuance.

A transfer of funds through normal banking procedures which does not involve the physical transportation of currency or monetary instruments is not required to be reported by the individual. Bank or wire transfers will be reported by the banks themselves to the Internal Revenue Service (IRS).

[smccolley]

Wire it!

Anything else is crazy. They charge you 500-1000 baht and it gets there the next business day. I have used Bangkok Bank for amounts over 1m baht and use Thanachart or Bangkok bank every month for 30-40k baht. It is foolproof.

[Baloo22]

Baloo22:

Your commeht to me was uncalled for. Your tag line sort of tells me that you are a Republican and though I am no Democrat, you should keep the "crap"lines to yourself as they serve no real purpose here.

First of all:

Re: Also the IRS will want to see those funds... "Not necessarily. If this money is from previous income and he has previously declared it on his tax filings, he won't have to declare it again. If it is "new" income or the sourcing is "complicated", consulting a tax accountant or other such tax professional would be a good idea."

Though this is true My statement was in general terms. Strange you could not figure that out. Or should I have quoted the US Tax Code in full? Your suggestion that this person might want to consider talking to a tax professional is, of course, a very good idea. Certainly I never would suggest doing anything else but that.

Second:

Re: "You have a 10K limit on funds..."

"Totally false! Total crap!"

When was the last time you brought 10K or over into the US? I have and that is what I was told so I am speaking from experience. Also, on the US Customs form (you are handed on the plane prior to arrival into the US) there is a box that clearly asks if you are bringing in 10K or more in currency. Mark it and you will be asked about it. For it is a declaration to US Customs by you and so you are liable to be asked to explain it. The US is very definite about this, especially in these times of terrorist activity. But again I was talking in general terms, though would it have been clearer if had listed the entire US Customs' code on the subject?

Have a nice day.

Whether I am a Republican or not has nothing to do with this issue.

From your comment above; "Re: Also the IRS will want to see those funds... "Not necessarily. If this money is from previous income and he has previously declared it on his tax filings, he won't have to declare it again. If it is "new" income or the sourcing is "complicated", consulting a tax accountant or other such tax professional would be a good idea.""

My comment of "Not necessarily. If this money is from previous income and he has previously declared it on his tax filings, he won't have to declare it again. If it is "new" income or the sourcing is "complicated", consulting a tax accountant or other such tax professional would be a good idea."" stands as good advice. Whether the OP owes taxes on that money, needs to declare some or all of that money to the IRS, is an entirely separate issue. That issue is between the OP and the IRS.

In your comment above you say "Re: "You have a 10K limit on funds..."" You left out the rest of that sentence. Your original statement was: "You have a 10K limit on funds that you can bring back into the US in cash. It has to be declared with a 10% charge for anything over that... "

That is not "talking in general terms". That is a very specific statement. And that statement remains totally false!

Edited October 28, 2013 by Baloo22