Gasohol 91 / 95?

[cooked]

I thought I'd get back to you good folks. I had the first, 1000Km service done today and I asked why The salesgirl had told us to use Gasohol91 when it was marked on the filler cover E20. He told us that if that was what we were told (by the way she only told us that when I asked directly what I should use) then if we had any problems with the motor and they thought we had used E20 there would be no guarantee. You just can't win, can you?

[OMGImInPattaya]

I thought I'd get back to you good folks. I had the first, 1000Km service done today and I asked why The salesgirl had told us to use Gasohol91 when it was marked on the filler cover E20. He told us that if that was what we were told (by the way she only told us that when I asked directly what I should use) then if we had any problems with the motor and they thought we had used E20 there would be no guarantee. You just can't win, can you?

What are you talking about? Why would there be no service if they thought you had used E20 (when in fact you were using G-91) if in fact the car manufacturer called for using E20? In this scenario, they are under the assumption you were following the manufacturer's recommended fuel so of course they would service the car under warranty.

In any case, the E20 is just the max ethanol content fuel your engine is rated for. Gasohol 91 is only 10% ethanol so even less aggressive on an engine than E20 so perfectly acceptable to use in the car without affecting the warranty.

[cooked]

Hang on there. I am just repeating what I was told, why don't you ask him what he is talking about? I was also previously told that if I did a 1000Km oil change the warranty would be void also.

[chris2004]

Hang on there. I am just repeating what I was told, why don't you ask him what he is talking about? I was also previously told that if I did a 1000Km oil change the warranty would be void also.

That's sounds crazy. My new Attrage says no first service required for 6 months whereas i am used to having an oil change at 1,000 km. So if i do that my warranty is invalidated ?

[cooked]

Hang on there. I am just repeating what I was told, why don't you ask him what he is talking about? I was also previously told that if I did a 1000Km oil change the warranty would be void also.

That's sounds crazy. My new Attrage says no first service required for 6 months whereas i am used to having an oil change at 1,000 km. So if i do that my warranty is invalidated ?

Makes me think that if I do have a claim on the warranty they will be looking really, really hard to put the blame on me. I don't like the thought of driving 10 000 Km before first service, but I just did just that.

[Jitar]

Hang on there. I am just repeating what I was told, why don't you ask him what he is talking about? I was also previously told that if I did a 1000Km oil change the warranty would be void also.

That's sounds crazy. My new Attrage says no first service required for 6 months whereas i am used to having an oil change at 1,000 km. So if i do that my warranty is invalidated ?

Dunno about Nissan, but the new Ford, Toyota and Mitsubishi we have had over the last few years all had an initial oil change at 1,000 km as a precaution. Most manufacturers do not require 1,000 km oil changes anymore but none of the dealers we use claim any issue with warranty because of this.

Oil changes over the time or km interval may cause an issue with warranty. Oil changes can be done more frequently than the normal schedule and there are some circumstances where this is a good idea. I seriously doubt any manufacturer would void a warranty for this.

Sales staff are not necessarily a good source of information for warranty details. Read the warranty details or find a decent service manager.

Edited February 12, 2014 by Jitar

[JimShortz]

In my Nissan March I found no difference in power and fuel consumption using E20 vs 91 Gasohol. There is no reason at all to pay the extra for 91 Gasohol, and certainly not the much more expensive 95. However, it won't hurt the engine, only your pocket...

By way of comparison, my Yamaha Nouvo Elegance 135cc scooter runs like a dream on 95 Gasohol, but is lifeless and flat running on 91(despite 91 Gasohol being the fuel recommended on the filler cap). It clearly needs, and makes proper use of, the higher octane fuel - the March doesn't.

My experiences anyway, ymmv...

[NeverSure]

95 burns slower than 91. It is less volatile. Diesel of course burns slower than gasoline and is less volatile.

It's all about compression ratios. The higher the engine's compression ratio, the less volatile the fuel you need.

Let's get back to diesels. They have an extremely high compression ratio, and it's the compression that heats and ignites the fuel. Many newer diesel engines don't need or have a spark plug. When the fuel is compressed enough it rapidly heats it and it burns. It burns at the right timing because the piston rising has a predictable point of compression/heat that will ignite the fuel.

If you have a lower compression engine that calls for 91 and you put 95 in it, the spark plug will fire at the correct time but the fuel won't burn fast enough and you will lose power. You might even get less gas mileage than if you used 91.

If you have a higher compression engine that is rated for 95, the 95 is less volatile and the extra compression/heat won't ignite it early. It will burn smoothly at the right time and give you full power.

If you have a higher compression engine that is rated for 95 and you put the faster burning 91 in it, the extra compression will heat and ignite the 91 early. You will get a spark knock if you don't have a spark sensor. In either event you will lose power because the fuel will ignite and burn early and it's expansion and power producing ability will be gone before the piston is in the right position to accept the power at the right time.

[Kwasaki]

Whow !! I think I'll go and have a beer.

[BuffaloRescue]

My theory - e20, 91, 95, gasolol or not.. its all gasohol, probably the same stuff just sold at different prices. Gasohol contains moisture its not good for engine. Probably best just to put the cheapest in its all the same i think

[JimShortz]

My theory - e20, 91, 95, gasolol or not.. its all gasohol, probably the same stuff just sold at different prices. Gasohol contains moisture its not good for engine. Probably best just to put the cheapest in its all the same i think

I'd love to know the basis of this theory?

[ExpatOilWorker]

95 burns slower than 91. It is less volatile. Diesel of course burns slower than gasoline and is less volatile.

It's all about compression ratios. The higher the engine's compression ratio, the less volatile the fuel you need.

Let's get back to diesels. They have an extremely high compression ratio, and it's the compression that heats and ignites the fuel. Many newer diesel engines don't need or have a spark plug. When the fuel is compressed enough it rapidly heats it and it burns. It burns at the right timing because the piston rising has a predictable point of compression/heat that will ignite the fuel.

If you have a lower compression engine that calls for 91 and you put 95 in it, the spark plug will fire at the correct time but the fuel won't burn fast enough and you will lose power. You might even get less gas mileage than if you used 91.

If you have a higher compression engine that is rated for 95, the 95 is less volatile and the extra compression/heat won't ignite it early. It will burn smoothly at the right time and give you full power.

If you have a higher compression engine that is rated for 95 and you put the faster burning 91 in it, the extra compression will heat and ignite the 91 early. You will get a spark knock if you don't have a spark sensor. In either event you will lose power because the fuel will ignite and burn early and it's expansion and power producing ability will be gone before the piston is in the right position to accept the power at the right time.

Dude, you need to go back and study how a diesel engine works. I will give you a hint, fuel injector.

[Kwasaki]

While I was having a beer and surfing, found this.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081225203254AAHmjPq

[Ace of Pop]

Dam You Kwakers , just cliked the link, expected it to be about Beer.

[MadMac]

As it just fits in here, we had the engine rebuilt in our 2009 Optra (someone ignored a red light) from scratch. It has now ~300km on 95 petrol. The car is LPG converted. What's the opinion of the experts for further running in, drive it on the 95 or use LPG. It will be mainly driven with LPG anyway in the future.

My plan is to give it a 2:1 mix for the next 5000km, that is 100km on LPG, 50km on petrol. Makes sense? Petrol meaning 95 or E10 later.

[Kwasaki]

As it just fits in here, we had the engine rebuilt in our 2009 Optra (someone ignored a red light) from scratch. It has now ~300km on 95 petrol. The car is LPG converted. What's the opinion of the experts for further running in, drive it on the 95 or use LPG. It will be mainly driven with LPG anyway in the future.

My plan is to give it a 2:1 mix for the next 5000km, that is 100km on LPG, 50km on petrol. Makes sense? Petrol meaning 95 or E10 later.

No expert but good advice here you may find this info useful if you going to run on LPG.

http://www.carsguide.com.au/tools-and-advice/hints-and-tips/how_to_take_care_of_your_lpg_system

For years most petrol run cars can run E20, the info for fuel to use should be in the handbook for the car.

Edited February 22, 2014 by Kwasaki

[Somtamnication]

I so confew!

The Vios I just bought has both 91 and E20 labeled in the gas cap. Manual is all in Thai but on the last pages of the manual, it says also 91 and E20.

For 2 baht savings, I will use the E20. Any problems with the warranty, I will contact Toyota Japan. They always email my complaints to my local dealer and all bs is bypassed.

[Kwasaki]

I so confew!

The Vios I just bought has both 91 and E20 labeled in the gas cap. Manual is all in Thai but on the last pages of the manual, it says also 91 and E20.

For 2 baht savings, I will use the E20. Any problems with the warranty, I will contact Toyota Japan. They always email my complaints to my local dealer and all bs is bypassed.

Nothing to be confused about the simple answer is use E20 it's the cheaper fuel you can pay more if you wish but you can use just about any fuel you want in the Vios if E20 isn't available except E85 and Diesel.

Edited February 23, 2014 by Kwasaki

[SDM0712]

So I am still wondering why she said not to use Gasohol 95.

To avoid losing face and appear that she didn't really know what she was taking about she probably made up the answer. I see this a lot. From her perspective since most people use 91 on a car of this type it was obvious that 91 would not damage the engine. But since she had no knowledge of anyone using 95 just said don't use it because ...... anything could happen and she wouldn't want to be blamed for the car exploding in a ball of flames or something.

My MU-7's an oil burner so doesn't really matter, but on my bike (Kawasaki 650) I get better performance and sound from using the old fashioned straight 95 (at 50.3 baht a litre !!)

I'm no mechanic but with knowledge no doubt gained subconsciously from Grant & Phil's Arches I believe that as long as the minimum octane level is used that no damage can be caused. I'm not sure if any fuel that would go over 95 is available commercially, or even if that could damage the engine with too high a rating.....perhaps (Kerosine ?), aviation fuel?

Also, is leaded fuel even available anywhere now ? That would of course could damage to the Cat.

SDM

[Kwasaki]

So I am still wondering why she said not to use Gasohol 95.

To avoid losing face and appear that she didn't really know what she was taking about she probably made up the answer. I see this a lot. From her perspective since most people use 91 on a car of this type it was obvious that 91 would not damage the engine. But since she had no knowledge of anyone using 95 just said don't use it because ...... anything could happen and she wouldn't want to be blamed for the car exploding in a ball of flames or something.

My MU-7's an oil burner so doesn't really matter, but on my bike (Kawasaki 650) I get better performance and sound from using the old fashioned straight 95 (at 50.3 baht a litre !!)

I'm no mechanic but with knowledge no doubt gained subconsciously from Grant & Phil's Arches I believe that as long as the minimum octane level is used that no damage can be caused. I'm not sure if any fuel that would go over 95 is available commercially, or even if that could damage the engine with too high a rating.....perhaps (Kerosine ?), aviation fuel?

Also, is leaded fuel even available anywhere now ? That would of course could damage to the Cat.

SDM

Well Kawaski 650 twin designed to use 91 so E10 is fine and goes just the same but as they say up to you.

[SDM0712]

I agree but with the 91 gasohol mix I'm definitely losing power and the engine has much louder "tappitity" noise, if you know what I mean.

SDM

[gmac]

In my Nissan March I found no difference in power and fuel consumption using E20 vs 91 Gasohol. There is no reason at all to pay the extra for 91 Gasohol, and certainly not the much more expensive 95. However, it won't hurt the engine, only your pocket...

By way of comparison, my Yamaha Nouvo Elegance 135cc scooter runs like a dream on 95 Gasohol, but is lifeless and flat running on 91(despite 91 Gasohol being the fuel recommended on the filler cap). It clearly needs, and makes proper use of, the higher octane fuel - the March doesn't.

My experiences anyway, ymmv...

Same experience with my PCX, recently switched to Gasohol 95 after using Gasohol 91 for many years and was amazed at the improved performance.

[Kwasaki]

Paying a higher price for fuel for something that does not need it is marketing playing with your mind, clever psychological test stuff err.

[SDM0712]

Paying a higher price for fuel for something that does not need it is marketing playing with your mind, clever psychological test stuff err.

Need is relative. My point is that in my experience the bike runs better on pure 95 Petrol than the 91 Gasohol alternative.

I agree that the 91 Gasohol does meet the minimum standard, but as far as performance goes the 95 pure mix gives a better return.

I personally can survive on bread, water and vitamins, but will run much better on steak and chips !

I am not a mechanic, although possibly " Kwasaki" is with this nick, but there must be some truth in that which I experience, it can't really be my imagination. After all I'm sure that racing superbikes and F1 cars do not run on a gasohol mix. I'm really to lazy to look it up but if anyone tells me that any performance/competition vehicles run on a 91 octane gasohol mix I will admit that I must be dreaming about getting better performance from a 95 octane pure fuel.

To look up information on the internet does not an expert make, and I am not an expert. I trust what I see, touch, feel and experience.

SDM

Edited February 25, 2014 by SDM0712

[Sayonarax]

# Fuel quality affects the wear and tear not Octane rating.
# Higher octane is made for better performance and compression.

# High Octane fuel is mostly used in turbo/super charged sport cars

# Leaded/Super Fuel is designed for old carburetor engine

# E10 fuels will reduces millage from 3-5%

# Check the owners manual for the recommend fuel

Unless you've owned a jap import in your life, then your worrying about nothing.

[SDM0712]

" # Higher octane is made for better performance and compression."..............

Thank you for confirming my observations.

SDM

[Sayonarax]

I agree but with the 91 gasohol mix I'm definitely losing power and the engine has much louder "tappitity" noise, if you know what I mean. SDM

Try using pure 91, sounds like your car is having pre-ignation or aka your low octane fuel is igniting before the spark.

[SDM0712]

No idea, but my Ninja definitely prefers 95 pure, even if my wallet doesn't.

[Lancelot]

So I am still wondering why she said not to use Gasohol 95.

Not to denigrate the lady, but she had no clue. She probably believes what she told you to be true; however, its not correct.

High compression engines require higher octane so that the engine does not "ping" usually under hard acceleration. Pinging results when the fuel mixture is ignited while the piston is still traveling up to top dead center. Its like a collision of burning fuel and upward piston travel. The higher the octane rating, the slower the fuel mixture burns, avoiding the collision.

To the point, buy the octane rating your car is designed to use; buying more octane than the engine requires is a waste of money. If your car can run on 91, 95 and E20, I'd use E20 because its cheaper. I have a Honda CBR250, that can run on 91, 95 and E20, so I use E20. And yeah all the motorcycle experts flame me for using it, 555

[Sayonarax]

No idea, but my Ninja definitely prefers 95 pure, even if my wallet doesn't.

High performance engine needs Oct 95 or Oct 98

In Australia we sell Octane 98 at the pumps and that's what all rev heads prefer to use, to prevent pinging, knocking or early detonation.

Oct 91 is for 4 bangers (4 Cylinder Engine) like Mazda 2 and 3s, Honda City's, Jazzes etc