Here we go again, Thailand

[manarak]

the yellow and the red are not important.

the big question for Thailand is continuity

to ensure the continuity of its develoment strategy and of the principles of the sufficiency economy.

some forces are in favor of that, others are in favor of transforming the country into a populist capitalist social-democracy which will at the end run into the same problems as now face by many western countries. Due to the specificities of Thai mentality, I'm not even sure Thailand would last that long once the "free money for nothing" mentality will have been kicked off.

"Sufficiency economy"? Isn't that about convincing the poor that they should be happy in their poverty?

Be careful with your mockery, this is HM the King's economic doctrine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Localism_in_Thailand

"sufficiency economy" is much more than just convincing the poor to be happy, although I do recognize the part of truth in this.

The poor, although not the main focus of the theory, are an important part of any economy that should function in the long run. The challenge is to have the "right" people in poverty and to offer to everybody more opportunities for success, while maintaining a sufficiently-sized lower class.

The main point of this economic theory lies somewhere else, namely in the avoidance of credit bubbles, credit-fuelled mass-overconsumption, overheat of money-circulation, overreliance on VAT tax resource, distribution of money (these were the levers used by western governments during the last 20-30 years to maintain growth and fiscal income).

The system also aims at maintaining low labor and land costs, so that living costs remain low.

Low labor and low land costs are key to any sustainable economy.

Edited October 29, 2013 by manarak

[MrMalarkey]

Aren't the Reds angry about the amnesty bill as it will mean the people responsible for the deaths during the 2010 disturbances will be let off?

Whatever Thaksin's faults, his government was overthrown by a military coup which started the current unrest.

What came first though, the chicken or the egg.

[Lupatria]

Never hurts to hear the views of Thaksin Advisor and Thai Rak Thai Party Member Tom Kruesopon ... as long as one keeps his frame of reference in mind when reading it.

Indeed, the attempted deception and very real desperation from the Thaksin camp becomes greater each day.

"Tom Kruesopon, a member of ruling party and an advisor to Mr Thaksin, said “the prime minister has not given up his power. He is not seeking asylum.”"

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8affeb80-47f3-11db-a42e-0000779e2340.html#axzz2j1uSHYev

If 67 million people allow a fugitive to remote control their country, who is to blame?

[Thait Spot]

It's precisely this journalistic attitude that will leave Thailand stuck in the mire

[Nobbie49]

No, no, no you are being tricked to do so by one side or the other. It is purely a power play between the haves and the have mores, while Thailand is left to rot.

Looking at his Facebook page, its not easy to see whether he's a have, or a have more. But he does say in one comment 'Daddy ran out of money' and his wife and kids had to eat sandwiches, the poor things. Oh how his friends laughed at his wit!

He was bang on the money for the first three paragraphs, the lot of them are ****s.

Sandwiches are expensive in Thailand.

The cost of an Au Bon Pain or Subway sarnie could feed at least 3 people for a day!

Where's he coming from?

Now, he's looking for investors in his company that is making taxi meters for motorcycle taxis.

Julpas "Tom" Kruesopon, Director

Moto-Meter

http://www.worldmoto.com/moto-meter.php

Today, shares of stock in his company were 4 American pennies, so he could use any help.

http://www.worldmoto.com/investors-stock.php

Yep and soon to go through the roof!

[brewsterbudgen]

So...what he IS makes what he SAYS less true?!

It´s not wheter what he says is true or not, what he is saying is immoral. He is saying that, hey! other people commit crimes so why can´t we give Thaksin a break?

What he is, and who he works for is perfectly a valid consideration in view of his biased opinion.

But that is not ALL he says!

No, it´s not all what he says, but whitewashing Thaksin is the gist of the text and comprises about two thirds of the paragraphs. Why would you choose to ignore the main point to focus on vague, biased platitudes?, i.e "People being fooled to go out and protest for the benefit of one side or the other, the Amats or the ones who are against.", implying that one needs to be an Amat (sic) to oppose Thaksin.

Another example "the rule of law that that side is speaking about was written and enacted by the people who first broke the law by staging a coup in the first place." implying that there was a functional state of rights in Thailand vis-a-vis the Thaksin government before the coup, ignoring his fraudulent assets declaration, changing laws to benefit his business interests, electoral fraud, thousands of extra judicial killings, violent repression of anti-Thaksin demostrations, etc, etc, etc... Thaksin and his regime was running roughshod over the law well before the coupe happened so take the "fact" that lawlessnes emmanates from the coup and bin it.

So that justifies a coup?

[AleG]

But that is not ALL he says!

No, it´s not all what he says, but whitewashing Thaksin is the gist of the text and comprises about two thirds of the paragraphs. Why would you choose to ignore the main point to focus on vague, biased platitudes?, i.e "People being fooled to go out and protest for the benefit of one side or the other, the Amats or the ones who are against.", implying that one needs to be an Amat (sic) to oppose Thaksin.

Another example "the rule of law that that side is speaking about was written and enacted by the people who first broke the law by staging a coup in the first place." implying that there was a functional state of rights in Thailand vis-a-vis the Thaksin government before the coup, ignoring his fraudulent assets declaration, changing laws to benefit his business interests, electoral fraud, thousands of extra judicial killings, violent repression of anti-Thaksin demostrations, etc, etc, etc... Thaksin and his regime was running roughshod over the law well before the coupe happened so take the "fact" that lawlessnes emmanates from the coup and bin it.

So that justifies a coup?

No, it disproves the notion that the state of rights was damaged only after the coup. Thaksin and his regime was bending and breaking laws left, right and center well before the coup.

[ginjag]

Aren't the Reds angry about the amnesty bill as it will mean the people responsible for the deaths during the 2010 disturbances will be let off?

Whatever Thaksin's faults, his government was overthrown by a military coup which started the current unrest.

What came first though, the chicken or the egg.

The cheg

[ginjag]

Aren't the Reds angry about the amnesty bill as it will mean the people responsible for the deaths during the 2010 disturbances will be let off?

Whatever Thaksin's faults, his government was overthrown by a military coup which started the current unrest.

What came first though, the chicken or the egg.

I think he was not in government at the time of the coup.

[willyumiii]

As a farang in Thailand I like to follow political events and try to understand what the long term effects may be on farangs.

As a farang, I do not believe it is my right to comment on or try to influence Thai politics.

You want to argue about Bush, or Obama, bring it on.

The color of laundry Thais chose to wear is none of my business.

[Sydebolle]

+1 and I am witnessing the going as since 1985 already 8-)

Don't let our country go down a path of which this time there would be no return.

I've seen this country going on a path of no return since the time I arrived here in 94, and I think it had been going in that direction for some time already by then.

[bangon04]

Surely there must be a ban on loud speeches and waving giant flags and foam hands for the extended period of mourning that Thailand is going through?

[ratcatcher]

As a farang in Thailand I like to follow political events and try to understand what the long term effects may be on farangs.

As a farang, I do not believe it is my right to comment on or try to influence Thai politics.

You want to argue about Bush, or Obama, bring it on.

The color of laundry Thais chose to wear is none of my business.

I am pleased that you have reached a compromise.

There is (at least at the moment) free speech in Thailand and TVF exists for the purpose of exchanging opinions,ideas and criticisms etc of various aspects of Thai life and politics as well as numerous other subjects in other forums.

I believe I do have the right to comment on Thailand since I am a resident here, but I cannot influence Thai politics, only Thais can do that. As a matter of fact anyone can comment on Thailand and most do.

I can't argue about Bush or Obama either, since I am not American, but I still have opinions about both men.

The colour of Thais' clothes is also of no consequence to me.

[robertson468]

Aren't the Reds angry about the amnesty bill as it will mean the people responsible for the deaths during the 2010 disturbances will be let off?

Whatever Thaksin's faults, his government was overthrown by a military coup which started the current unrest.

I suggest that you look at "cause and effect" rather than writing whatever tickles your fancy. People were alarmed at the manic corruption, total abuse of power with complete disregard and allusions of grandeur way above his station by Khun T, which to others had become unacceptable. That was the cause of the coupe, which to those who perpetuated it, was their solution to the problem. I suspect they felt there was no way they could defeat this man through the ballot box, so had to take drastic action. I do not condone coupes, but through whatever means, he had managed to amass such a huge following, who had been encouraged to hero worship him, there was no way he was going to be ousted by normal(?) political means. There is no doubt that the man is exceptionally charismatic and has outstanding leadership qualities, but that does not mean that what he was doing was right. I am sure others can think of other outstanding leaders in history, who if they had followed more righteous ways, would have been written about far more kindly rather than following the route of despots and being condemned for the rest of time. And if the press is to be believed, it would look like we are about to go round the same round about again, despite him not residing in the Country.

[ginjag]

As a farang in Thailand I like to follow political events and try to understand what the long term effects may be on farangs.

As a farang, I do not believe it is my right to comment on or try to influence Thai politics.

You want to argue about Bush, or Obama, bring it on.

The color of laundry Thais chose to wear is none of my business.

I am pleased that you have reached a compromise.

There is (at least at the moment) free speech in Thailand and TVF exists for the purpose of exchanging opinions,ideas and criticisms etc of various aspects of Thai life and politics as well as numerous other subjects in other forums.

I believe I do have the right to comment on Thailand since I am a resident here, but I cannot influence Thai politics, only Thais can do that. As a matter of fact anyone can comment on Thailand and most do.

I can't argue about Bush or Obama either, since I am not American, but I still have opinions about both men.

The colour of Thais' clothes is also of no consequence to me.

Nor the colour of their skin, (thanks to Nivea) and others.

Nor how often Thais go to the temple

Immigration is the area most ex pats are concerned with, it's future thinking, and the changes it makes often makes foreigners a little nervous. I believe a little more fairness in the rules of long term stay.

Pay a hefty price but let the year visa mean a year, without kicking out the country/reporting every 90 days. 20K bht per year -no hindrance. Even the Thai would win on this.

[brewsterbudgen]

Aren't the Reds angry about the amnesty bill as it will mean the people responsible for the deaths during the 2010 disturbances will be let off?

Whatever Thaksin's faults, his government was overthrown by a military coup which started the current unrest.

I suggest that you look at "cause and effect" rather than writing whatever tickles your fancy. People were alarmed at the manic corruption, total abuse of power with complete disregard and allusions of grandeur way above his station by Khun T, which to others had become unacceptable. That was the cause of the coupe, which to those who perpetuated it, was their solution to the problem. I suspect they felt there was no way they could defeat this man through the ballot box, so had to take drastic action. I do not condone coupes, but through whatever means, he had managed to amass such a huge following, who had been encouraged to hero worship him, there was no way he was going to be ousted by normal(?) political means. There is no doubt that the man is exceptionally charismatic and has outstanding leadership qualities, but that does not mean that what he was doing was right. I am sure others can think of other outstanding leaders in history, who if they had followed more righteous ways, would have been written about far more kindly rather than following the route of despots and being condemned for the rest of time. And if the press is to be believed, it would look like we are about to go round the same round about again, despite him not residing in the Country.

It was a coup not a coupe.

If every country overthrew elected governments because they felt they couldn't defeat them democratically or because they thought them to be corrupt or abusing power, the world would be in as sorry a state as Thailand.

[hellodolly]

Aren't the Reds angry about the amnesty bill as it will mean the people responsible for the deaths during the 2010 disturbances will be let off?

Whatever Thaksin's faults, his government was overthrown by a military coup which started the current unrest.

I suggest that you look at "cause and effect" rather than writing whatever tickles your fancy. People were alarmed at the manic corruption, total abuse of power with complete disregard and allusions of grandeur way above his station by Khun T, which to others had become unacceptable. That was the cause of the coupe, which to those who perpetuated it, was their solution to the problem. I suspect they felt there was no way they could defeat this man through the ballot box, so had to take drastic action. I do not condone coupes, but through whatever means, he had managed to amass such a huge following, who had been encouraged to hero worship him, there was no way he was going to be ousted by normal(?) political means. There is no doubt that the man is exceptionally charismatic and has outstanding leadership qualities, but that does not mean that what he was doing was right. I am sure others can think of other outstanding leaders in history, who if they had followed more righteous ways, would have been written about far more kindly rather than following the route of despots and being condemned for the rest of time. And if the press is to be believed, it would look like we are about to go round the same round about again, despite him not residing in the Country.

It was a coup not a coupe.

If every country overthrew elected governments because they felt they couldn't defeat them democratically or because they thought them to be corrupt or abusing power, the world would be in as sorry a state as Thailand.

Exactly

How ever it was not an elected government.

Is it that hard for you to understand the difference between people voting you in and just grabbing the seat.

[nahkit]

"all because he didn't stand in the way of his ex wife doing a legal bid for a piece of land"

She wasn't his ex-wife when she bought the land, that's the whole point of why it was illegal.

[Suffinator]

The ruling elite are never going to give up power which in turn will never allow democracy to prevail.

http://meebal.com/road-to-democracy-in-thailand-marred-with-color/

[Jasun]

Wow, common sense.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[wileycoyote]

I agree ,Thailand has to create policies for the long term

[renaissanc]

I have to disagree with the opinion. Justice is one of the pillars of society. We can't just whitewash the pillar when it suits our own selfish purposes.

Thaksin has several corruption cases and human rights abuses cases waiting for him. He knows that he'll be nailed to the cross and have to go to prison for life, so he wants the cases to disappear.

While he's at it, he wants to reward the people providing the whitewash by helping them to be whitewashed too.

Either you have a system of Law or you don't. Thaksin should not be allowed to do what he is doing and to return whitewashed. It sets a very wrong precedent. What kind of example does it set for a leader of a country?

[hellodolly]

Aren't the Reds angry about the amnesty bill as it will mean the people responsible for the deaths during the 2010 disturbances will be let off?

Whatever Thaksin's faults, his government was overthrown by a military coup which started the current unrest.

The current unrest was started by the actions of Thaksin when he was the legal Prime Minister not when the army stepped in to fill the vacant spot left open by his resignation and attempt at turning Thailand into a dictatorship. check your history. Thaksin had no legal power what's so ever.

This Tom Kruesepon opinion piece makes good points. However, it is essential to keep in mind that the 2006 coup was merely the 17th or 18th Thai coup since 1932 and they didn't start with Thaksin. Keep in mind also that Thaksin didn't invent corruption, drug dealing and counterfeit property in Thailand either. So the author should bear in mind what's really what about Thailand and look beyond Thaksin -

Look back to all the corruption and graft and manipulation of power at the expense of the Thai poor for all these years. Look at all the pent up frustration and exclusion in Thai society. Look at all the cultural denial and decit. Look at all the money in military aid and funding received from the US that has been squandered on limousines, fancy 2nd and 3rd homes and university educations in London for the military generals, colonels and bureaucrats as well as designer handbags, shoes, clothes and Ferraris. These things and abuses in Thailand weren't invented or caused by Mr. Thaksin.

First off it was not a coup it was the temporary filling in of a vacant position in order to stop a man from turning Thailand into a dictatorship.

You say

Keep in mind also that Thaksin didn't invent corruption, drug dealing and counterfeit property in Thailand either.

Well I did not invent murder in Thailand so does that make it OK for me to murder you?

No he did not invent all those things but he was charged with abusing power. That had nothing to do with the Army filling the vacant Prime Minister spot. That came after. It was a big step in an attempt to send politicians the message that that kind of action was unacceptable. The only mistake they made was in leaving him with enough money to back a small army of goons in a real attempt to unseat a legal Prime Minister.

One side say its one man's fault. That we have to protest or else the rule of law gets thrown out of the window. That a criminal will go free. Well lets be clear on one thing, the rule of law that that side is speaking about was written and enacted by the people who first broke the law by staging a coup in the first place.

How can you have a coup if there is no Prime Minister. If the roles were reversed and it was Thaksin stepping in to fill the vacuum would you call it a coup? I think not.

The army has to protect the king and leaving the office open to a would be dictator would be failing in their duties..

[brianb1944]

Never hurts to hear the views of Thaksin Advisor and Thai Rak Thai Party Member Tom Kruesopon ... as long as one keeps his frame of reference in mind when reading it.

Hmm, that declaration makes the OP a bit one sided i would think.

Maybe but there is a certain amount of truth in it. There are others who seem to be getting away with crime and there may well be others including Democrats who aren't squeaky clean. There are other cases against Thaksin which may well be avoided if there is an amnesty. Of course a lot of this trouble could be avoided if the version of the amnesty which covers just the minor players and which has wide support on both sides was adopted instead.

It is fiendishly clever to insert "a certain amount " of truth into an article blatantly favouring a position.

[ginjag]

Never hurts to hear the views of Thaksin Advisor and Thai Rak Thai Party Member Tom Kruesopon ... as long as one keeps his frame of reference in mind when reading it.

Hmm, that declaration makes the OP a bit one sided i would think.

Maybe but there is a certain amount of truth in it. There are others who seem to be getting away with crime and there may well be others including Democrats who aren't squeaky clean. There are other cases against Thaksin which may well be avoided if there is an amnesty. Of course a lot of this trouble could be avoided if the version of the amnesty which covers just the minor players and which has wide support on both sides was adopted instead.

It is fiendishly clever to insert "a certain amount " of truth into an article blatantly favouring a position.

Forget the ( am nasty) altogether if those of any side do wrong do them for it and let it be final. Makes me sick to read all this BS about this that and tother.

If the bib ask for 300 bht can I later have it returned. Pity the powers that be don't concentrate on the mega problems there is without this S##T.

[A1Str8]

On a side note I dont know what Thaksin is worried about. He always says he wants to come home. Well then why doesn't he just come back, get arrested and serve his sentence so people don't need to listen to his crying anymore regarding to how homesick he is. People are sick of him already anyway.

[ginjag]

On a side note I dont know what Thaksin is worried about. He always says he wants to come home. Well then why doesn't he just come back, get arrested and serve his sentence so people don't need to listen to his crying anymore regarding to how homesick he is. People are sick of him already anyway.

Money greed power, has made him a coward and a spoilt baby.

[brewsterbudgen]

How can you have a coup if there is no Prime Minister. If the roles were reversed and it was Thaksin stepping in to fill the vacuum would you call it a coup? I think not.

The army has to protect the king and leaving the office open to a would be dictator would be failing in their duties..

Try to justify it all you like, but it was still a military takeover of an elected government.

Edited October 29, 2013 by brewsterbudgen

[besth]

Don't let our country go down a path of which this time there would be no return.

I've seen this country going on a path of no return since the time I arrived here in 94, and I think it had been going in that direction for some time already by then.

The path is a circle. Nobody is going anywhere, in politics and social structures, just repeating different versions of the same mistakes. It will be so for as long as it benefits the elite, whatever mask they are wearing.

[khunken]

How can you have a coup if there is no Prime Minister. If the roles were reversed and it was Thaksin stepping in to fill the vacuum would you call it a coup? I think not.

The army has to protect the king and leaving the office open to a would be dictator would be failing in their duties..

Try to justify it all you like, but it was still a military takeover of an elected government.

It was fully justified and the mistake they made was handing power back too early. Thaksin was taking Thailand down a road toward a form of dictatorship - quite possibly along the Lee Kwan Yu lines.

Reward people for their vote, pass laws for self benefit, dismember any checks & balances bodies, appoint family members to top positions in both the police and army, create a paid militia. In short a megalomaniac.

Later when one of the cases against him actually made it to court - try a bribe.

With the current level of corruption in this country (hardly anyone denies it - only the scale) it's about time that the 'everyone does it' excuse is put to bed and a start made at the top where the scale is infinitely larger than at the bottom.

Getting the worst culprit out of power and into jail would be a very good start.