Marriage Visa Extension Denied - Even Tough I Met All Requirements

[Awk]

80000 per month and you cannot save 3 months to get 400000 in the bank ? your life must cost a lot !

Thats an irelevant remark. The rules state 400,000k in a bank account or 40k per month. The problem seems to be the interviewing officer not understanding the regs. or envious of the applicant, or both.

Yep, and folk should read the story before posting daft stuff.

Then thaivisa would be virtually devoid of posts.

[Awk]

Wow, this is crazy! I never in a million years expected 6 pages of replies.

I don't even know how to reply to each one of them, but I'll try in the next few hours to address at least a few of them.

The retirement visa option is out of question for me, as I'm in my mid-30's.

I never had any issues with Immigration in my last 4 extensions. What shocked me the most is that he refused to return my passport until after I signed the document that I would have 400,000 in the bank account on my next extension - and his supervisor was there when he did that, so she must have known about it. And also when he suggested to my wife that she should find another husband who had 400,000 in the bank if I didn't have enough. I wish I had a tape recording of that moment.

I'm beginning to get the picture now

Mid 30's and receiving TH80,000 pm from a trust fund and only TB260,000 in the bank

I have never found Thai Immigration Officers hard to deal with as long as you are decently presented, show respect, wei and bow slightly and ask them to help you.

If you treat them like subordinates and inferior to you they will take that as an insult - you should give them face - make them feel important.

Demanding to speak with his superior was the kiss of death - the ultimate insult - what did you expect after that ?

Draw your own conclusions as to why this particular Officer reacted in this manner TV people - I have

Also when the Immigration Officer suggested to your wife that she should find a husband with TB400,000 in the bank did he speak English or Thai ?

Presumably he spoke in Thai since they are both Thais - do you speak Thai well enough to understand what he said ?

I doubt it ! So how can you be sure exactly what he said ? and if he did that's the ultimate Thai to Thai put down !

You must have really pissed him off

I only asked to speak to his supervisor AFTER he said that he could not extend my visa. It was the very last option I had, not the first thing I said after I sat down.

I've been in Thailand for almost 9 years, 4 of them being married. I can understand Thai almost perfectly and speak it quite well, too. I know everything about Thai customs.

He spoke in Thai almost the entire time and he was well aware that I understood every word. He basically said that there is no law that allows for monthly income from overseas unless I had a work permit. And then told my wife in Thai that I should put 400,000 in the bank account or that she should look for another husband.

He was also well aware that I understood it. I didn't need a translation.

Please don't blame me. Remember I've had extensions for the past 4 years without any problems, ever.

My sympathies. I think you would do best to ignore idiot-replies like the above. There is little need to pay attention to a headless rooster running around; better to just keep out of the way and let them die out.

While I never experienced problems like yours, where the official is obviously wrong, the increased difficulties in going the

income-from-abroad route made me eventually switch to just keeping the 400,000 in the bank.

Initially, just the extravagantly costly embassy letter was accepted, which contrary to what some clown in this thread claimed, for most requires considerable supporting documentation, rather than just a statement. Then I suddenly also needed a confirmation from the overseas employer for which I was working on a rotational basis, and by now it would perhaps be something else too.

I'm not so comfortable with keeping money in the bank here, given one appear to have effectively no security against someone stealing it, bank employees included, and believe my money could be better vested elsewhere, but you never know what kind of things the IM employee will ask for here. At least the money-in-the-bank route seems to limit the amount of surprises somewhat, and there is less of a chance of having to get some official looking document from the overseas HR department in the middle of a long summer holiday.

[JLCrab]

The IMM Officer at C-W in question here probably handles around 100 or more extensions of stay per week. There are only 2 ways to provide income verification for a non-Thai married to a Thai under P.O. 777/2551 2.18 -- You can say that for some reason the Officer does not know this, or, there is something else going on here that has not been offered by the OP whether he knows it or not.

Edited November 1, 2013 by JLCrab

[Maestro]

Removed a troll post (555+)

Also removed an off topic post. This post is about a marriage extension with financials based on foreign income, not on money in the bank.

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[Papadragon]

Wow, this is crazy! I never in a million years expected 6 pages of replies.

I don't even know how to reply to each one of them, but I'll try in the next few hours to address at least a few of them.

The retirement visa option is out of question for me, as I'm in my mid-30's.

I never had any issues with Immigration in my last 4 extensions. What shocked me the most is that he refused to return my passport until after I signed the document that I would have 400,000 in the bank account on my next extension - and his supervisor was there when he did that, so she must have known about it. And also when he suggested to my wife that she should find another husband who had 400,000 in the bank if I didn't have enough. I wish I had a tape recording of that moment.

I'm beginning to get the picture now

Mid 30's and receiving TH80,000 pm from a trust fund and only TB260,000 in the bank

I have never found Thai Immigration Officers hard to deal with as long as you are decently presented, show respect, wei and bow slightly and ask them to help you.

If you treat them like subordinates and inferior to you they will take that as an insult - you should give them face - make them feel important.

Demanding to speak with his superior was the kiss of death - the ultimate insult - what did you expect after that ?

Draw your own conclusions as to why this particular Officer reacted in this manner TV people - I have

Also when the Immigration Officer suggested to your wife that she should find a husband with TB400,000 in the bank did he speak English or Thai ?

Presumably he spoke in Thai since they are both Thais - do you speak Thai well enough to understand what he said ?

I doubt it ! So how can you be sure exactly what he said ? and if he did that's the ultimate Thai to Thai put down !

You must have really pissed him off

I only asked to speak to his supervisor AFTER he said that he could not extend my visa. It was the very last option I had, not the first thing I said after I sat down.

I've been in Thailand for almost 9 years, 4 of them being married. I can understand Thai almost perfectly and speak it quite well, too. I know everything about Thai customs.

He spoke in Thai almost the entire time and he was well aware that I understood every word. He basically said that there is no law that allows for monthly income from overseas unless I had a work permit. And then told my wife in Thai that I should put 400,000 in the bank account or that she should look for another husband.

He was also well aware that I understood it. I didn't need a translation.

Please don't blame me. Remember I've had extensions for the past 4 years without any problems, ever.

My sympathies. I think you would do best to ignore idiot-replies like the above. There is little need to pay attention to a headless rooster running around; better to just keep out of the way and let them die out.

Speaking for all other idiot-replies and headless roosters - arrogance like this that gets you nowhere in Thailand

"I've been in Thailand for almost 9 years, 4 of them being married. I can understand Thai almost perfectly and speak it quite well, too I know everything about Thai customs" says the knowitall 35 year old.

Well If you know so much you certainly didn't know how to handle this situation !

It seems that something in your manner, attitude, personal demeanor and the way you spoke made this Officer look for ANY excuse NOT to give you an extension and he found it

The interpretation of Income for a Marriage extension as having to be EARNT if you're under 50

Unlike your previous extensions which were done by female Officers, no doubt overwhelmed by your personal charm, good looks and charisma, this male Officer clearly sees UNEARNT income from a trust fund as being suspect and unreliable.

Hence the requirement that you show TB400,000 in the bank.

You finally insulted him by questioning his authority and calling for his Supervisor who, if you know anything about Thais, was bound to endorse his decision. Thai Rak Thai !

Hence his retaliation comment to you regarding your wife finding a husband who did fulfill the requirements.

That's a fairly mild response from a Thai who's face you just ripped off - you're lucky he didn't box your young ears and chase you out of the office waving a samurai sword

Edited November 2, 2013 by Papadragon

[whybother]

Speaking for all other idiot-replies and headless roosters - arrogance like this that gets you nowhere in Thailand

"I've been in Thailand for almost 9 years, 4 of them being married. I can understand Thai almost perfectly and speak it quite well, too I know everything about Thai customs" says the knowitall 35 year old.

Well If you know so much you certainly didn't know how to handle this situation !

It seems that something in your manner, attitude, personal demeanor and the way you spoke made this Officer look for ANY excuse NOT to give you an extension and he found it

The interpretation of Income for a Marriage extension as having to be EARNT if you're under 50

Unlike your previous extensions which were done by female Officers, no doubt overwhelmed by your personal charm, good looks and charisma, this male Officer clearly sees UNEARNT income from a trust fund as being suspect and unreliable.

Hence the requirement that you show TB400,000 in the bank.

You finally insulted him by questioning his authority and calling for his Supervisor who, if you know anything about Thais, was bound to endorse his decision. Thai Rak Thai !

Hence his retaliation comment to you regarding your wife finding a husband who did fulfill the requirements.

That's a fairly mild response from a Thai who's face you just ripped off - you're lucky he didn't box your young ears and chase you out of the office waving a samurai sword

Maybe you should check out the definition of "Earn".

earn 1 (ûrn)

tr.v. earned, earn·ing, earns

1. To gain especially for the performance of service, labor, or work: earned money by mowing lawns.

2. To acquire or deserve as a result of effort or action: She earned a reputation as a hard worker.

3. To yield as return or profit: a savings account that earns interest on deposited funds.

[JLCrab]

I will then (again) say that the Immigration website translation of P.O. 777/2551 by Tillike & Gibbins uses the word 'earn' for monthly income under 2.18 (6) for extension in the case of marriage to a Thai citizen but does not use the word 'earn' in the provision for monthly income for extension in the case of retirement at 2.22 (3).

Now you can say that somehow this 100+ year-old law firm in Thailand was sloppy in their translation or there is something in the original and prevailing Thai version that would somehow indicate how this monthly income in each case is to be derived. Up to you.

[whybother]

I will then (again) say that the Immigration website translation of P.O. 777/2551 by Tillike & Gibbins uses the word 'earn' for monthly income under 2.18 (6) for extension in the case of marriage to a Thai citizen but does not use the word 'earn' in the provision for monthly income for extension in the case of retirement at 2.22 (3).

Now you can say that somehow this 100+ year-old law firm in Thailand was sloppy in their translation or there is something in the original and prevailing Thai version that would somehow indicate how this monthly income in each case is to be derived. Up to you.

Marriage: the alien husband must earn an average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month

Retirement: must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month

The translation would indicate that for marriage, you don't need to have evidence.

I don't know why they used "earn" in one case and not in the other, but "earn" doesn't only mean "work".

[ubonjoe]

Again I must point out that 305/2551 contradicts your interpretation of earn. But you choose to keep making the same error.

[JLCrab]

Again I must point out that 305/2551 contradicts your interpretation of earn. But you choose to keep making the same error.

The officer in question according to the header of 305/2551 takes those documents in 2.18 (5) into consideration but in supplying those documents he is not obligated to issue an extension. Maybe there is something about the use of the word 'earn' in the Thai original that is influencing his decision. I don't know. He obviously denied the extension and the only explanation you have offered is that as a Police officer in Immigration Division I he doesn't understand the basic rules and that if appealed his decision would be overturned.

[whybother]

Again I must point out that 305/2551 contradicts your interpretation of earn. But you choose to keep making the same error.

The officer in question according to the header of 305/2551 takes those documents in 2.18 (5) into consideration but in supplying those documents he is not obligated to issue an extension. Maybe there is something about the use of the word 'earn' in the Thai original that is influencing his decision. I don't know. He obviously denied the extension and the only explanation you have offered is that as a Police officer in Immigration Division I he doesn't understand the basic rules and that if appealed his decision would be overturned.

Why would you be asked to provide evidence of investments or pensions if it can't be used as income earned?

[JLCrab]

It is just fine to list all the reasons why the extension to the OP should have been granted. It wasn't. Either a line Immigration officer who might issue 100 extension or so per week doesn't understand even the rudimentary interpretation of the Police orders 305 & 777/2551 or there is some other reason.

I see the discrepancy via marriage and retirement in the translation of monthly income by the oldest and largest independent law firm in Thailand as a possible explanation. Maybe, maybe not.

[whybother]

It is just fine to list all the reasons why the extension to the OP should have been granted. It wasn't. Either a line Immigration officer who might issue 100 extension or so per week doesn't understand even the rudimentary interpretation of the Police orders 305 & 777/2551 or there is some other reason.

I see the discrepancy via marriage and retirement in the translation of monthly income by the oldest and largest independent law firm in Thailand as a possible explanation. Maybe, maybe not.

And yet plenty of people are given visa extensions for marriage by providing evidence of pension or investment income. Someone must be wrong.

[ubonjoe]

To me it appears that the immigration officer failed to leave out his personal feelings and biases when he decided to ignore the written rules and refused to accept the application.

That is why I have been saying the OP needs to appeal the refusal. Not just bend over and do what the officer suggested. Or what others have written in their posts on this topic.

[JLCrab]

To me it appears that the immigration officer failed to leave out his personal feelings and biases when he decided to ignore the written rules and refused to accept the application.

That is why I have been saying the OP needs to appeal the refusal. Not just bend over and do what the officer suggested. Or what others have written in their posts on this topic.

On that point I will agree -- I said earlier one explanation is the Officer in question is possibly a 'loose cannon' in need of psychological counseling. But I'm still guessing the explanation is simpler than that.

[rocoa01]

I go to the same office for my visa. It was a loss of face thing, clearly he was wrong. I learned not to argue no matter how right you are. Walk away and come back and you will normally get your way the next time. My advice would be to fly to Cambodia or another nearby neighboring country. Come back in and try it again in two weeks. This time let your wife present the docs at the counter. Sit in the waiting area and read a newspaper, look non-threatening, lol. And let your wife handle any questions they may have.

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[ubonjoe]

I go to the same office for my visa. It was a loss of face thing, clearly he was wrong. I learned not to argue no matter how right you are. Walk away and come back and you will normally get your way the next time. My advice would be to fly to Cambodia or another nearby neighboring country. Come back in and try it again in two weeks. This time let your wife present the docs at the counter. Sit in the waiting area and read a newspaper, look non-threatening, lol. And let your wife handle any questions they may have.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

What would he gain by flying out and back?

He doesn't have a visa. He would only get a visa exempt entry.

[longstebe]

I can't wait till I retire there..........honestly.

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[ubonjoe]

To me it appears that the immigration officer failed to leave out his personal feelings and biases when he decided to ignore the written rules and refused to accept the application.

That is why I have been saying the OP needs to appeal the refusal. Not just bend over and do what the officer suggested. Or what others have written in their posts on this topic.

On that point I will agree -- I said earlier one explanation is the Officer in question is possibly a 'loose cannon' in need of psychological counseling. But I'm still guessing the explanation is simpler than that.

It is not counseling he needs. He needs to be moved to a different position that does not allow him to make such decisions.

Perhaps at some remote border crossing.

[Papadragon]

Speaking for all other idiot-replies and headless roosters - arrogance like this that gets you nowhere in Thailand

"I've been in Thailand for almost 9 years, 4 of them being married. I can understand Thai almost perfectly and speak it quite well, too I know everything about Thai customs" says the knowitall 35 year old.

Well If you know so much you certainly didn't know how to handle this situation !

It seems that something in your manner, attitude, personal demeanor and the way you spoke made this Officer look for ANY excuse NOT to give you an extension and he found it

The interpretation of Income for a Marriage extension as having to be EARNT if you're under 50

Unlike your previous extensions which were done by female Officers, no doubt overwhelmed by your personal charm, good looks and charisma, this male Officer clearly sees UNEARNT income from a trust fund as being suspect and unreliable.

Hence the requirement that you show TB400,000 in the bank.

You finally insulted him by questioning his authority and calling for his Supervisor who, if you know anything about Thais, was bound to endorse his decision. Thai Rak Thai !

Hence his retaliation comment to you regarding your wife finding a husband who did fulfill the requirements.

That's a fairly mild response from a Thai who's face you just ripped off - you're lucky he didn't box your young ears and chase you out of the office waving a samurai sword

Maybe you should check out the definition of "Earn".

earn 1 (ûrn)

tr.v. earned, earn·ing, earns

1. To gain especially for the performance of service, labor, or work: earned money by mowing lawns.

2. To acquire or deserve as a result of effort or action: She earned a reputation as a hard worker.

3. To yield as return or profit: a savings account that earns interest on deposited funds.

Maybe you should try that on a busy Thai Immigration officer and see how far you get

Salaries and wages are EARNT by working in the present - pensions are EARNT by working in the past

By the sound of it this applicant has never worked in his life yet receives TB80,000 pm from a trust fund.

Maybe that's what got up the hard working poorly paid Immigration officer's nose ?

In any event as one football manager once told me -

Never argue with the referee - he's NOT always right but he's ALWAYS the referee - his decision is final

Edited November 2, 2013 by Papadragon

[whybother]

Speaking for all other idiot-replies and headless roosters - arrogance like this that gets you nowhere in Thailand

"I've been in Thailand for almost 9 years, 4 of them being married. I can understand Thai almost perfectly and speak it quite well, too I know everything about Thai customs" says the knowitall 35 year old.

Well If you know so much you certainly didn't know how to handle this situation !

It seems that something in your manner, attitude, personal demeanor and the way you spoke made this Officer look for ANY excuse NOT to give you an extension and he found it

The interpretation of Income for a Marriage extension as having to be EARNT if you're under 50

Unlike your previous extensions which were done by female Officers, no doubt overwhelmed by your personal charm, good looks and charisma, this male Officer clearly sees UNEARNT income from a trust fund as being suspect and unreliable.

Hence the requirement that you show TB400,000 in the bank.

You finally insulted him by questioning his authority and calling for his Supervisor who, if you know anything about Thais, was bound to endorse his decision. Thai Rak Thai !

Hence his retaliation comment to you regarding your wife finding a husband who did fulfill the requirements.

That's a fairly mild response from a Thai who's face you just ripped off - you're lucky he didn't box your young ears and chase you out of the office waving a samurai sword

Maybe you should check out the definition of "Earn".

earn 1 (ûrn)

tr.v. earned, earn·ing, earns

1. To gain especially for the performance of service, labor, or work: earned money by mowing lawns.

2. To acquire or deserve as a result of effort or action: She earned a reputation as a hard worker.

3. To yield as return or profit: a savings account that earns interest on deposited funds.

Try that on a busy Thai Immigration officer and see how far you get

Salaries and wages are EARNT by working in the present - pensions are EARNT by working in the past

By the sound of it this applicant has never worked in his life yet receives TB80,000 pm from a trust fund.

Maybe that's what got up the Immigration officers nose ?

In any event as one football manager once told me -

Never argue with the referee - he's NOT always right but he's ALWAYS the referee - his decision is final

I'm not arguing with the referee. I'm arguing with you. If the Immigration officer rejected the application because "it got up his nose", then he's clearly wrong, and the applicant should appeal.

[Papadragon]

Speaking for all other idiot-replies and headless roosters - arrogance like this that gets you nowhere in Thailand

"I've been in Thailand for almost 9 years, 4 of them being married. I can understand Thai almost perfectly and speak it quite well, too I know everything about Thai customs" says the knowitall 35 year old.

Well If you know so much you certainly didn't know how to handle this situation !

It seems that something in your manner, attitude, personal demeanor and the way you spoke made this Officer look for ANY excuse NOT to give you an extension and he found it

The interpretation of Income for a Marriage extension as having to be EARNT if you're under 50

Unlike your previous extensions which were done by female Officers, no doubt overwhelmed by your personal charm, good looks and charisma, this male Officer clearly sees UNEARNT income from a trust fund as being suspect and unreliable.

Hence the requirement that you show TB400,000 in the bank.

You finally insulted him by questioning his authority and calling for his Supervisor who, if you know anything about Thais, was bound to endorse his decision. Thai Rak Thai !

Hence his retaliation comment to you regarding your wife finding a husband who did fulfill the requirements.

That's a fairly mild response from a Thai who's face you just ripped off - you're lucky he didn't box your young ears and chase you out of the office waving a samurai sword

Maybe you should check out the definition of "Earn".

earn 1 (ûrn)

tr.v. earned, earn·ing, earns

1. To gain especially for the performance of service, labor, or work: earned money by mowing lawns.

2. To acquire or deserve as a result of effort or action: She earned a reputation as a hard worker.

3. To yield as return or profit: a savings account that earns interest on deposited funds.

Try that on a busy Thai Immigration officer and see how far you get

Salaries and wages are EARNT by working in the present - pensions are EARNT by working in the past

By the sound of it this applicant has never worked in his life yet receives TB80,000 pm from a trust fund.

Maybe that's what got up the hard working poorly paid Immigration officer's nose ?

In any event as one football manager once told me -

Never argue with the referee - he's NOT always right but he's ALWAYS the referee - his decision is final

I'm not arguing with the referee. I'm arguing with you. If the Immigration officer rejected the application because "it got up his nose", then he's clearly wrong, and the applicant should appeal.

Argue away or be true to your name WhyBother

If the OP takes your advice he'll be wasting a lot of time and money.

Not to mention the stress and toll it will take out of his private life and marriage.

He's best bet is to eat humble pie "bite the bullet' and do as he's told - although it probably goes against his natural instincts.

Re-apply with TB400,000 in the bank.

No big deal for someone with his income and the result is guaranteed.

He'll get the extension and will have learnt some valuable lessons in life along the way.

We've all had to do this at various times in our lives - it's called experience

[JLCrab]

So now this officer should be transferred to some remote border post and all based upon the event as described in Post #1 and a few subsequent by the OP. If this guy was such a whack-job, one might think, given the number of encounters with the non-Thai extension-seeking public everyday, that this officer would have had occasion to lose his cool many times before causing problems for his support staff and superiors.

... or else maybe all these presumptions are being made based upon hearing solely one side of the story and the story from the other side would be quite different.

[riclag]

The translation of Police Order 777/2551 for the 65K baht In Case of Retirement 2.22 (3) says: "Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month; or..."

In 2.18 (6) it says: "In the case of marriage to a Thai woman, the alien husband must earn an average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month or ..."

So for retirement purposes one must have evidence of an income but for extension based upon marriage it uses the word 'earn'.

Being the beneficiary of a trust certainly is income but one might say that one does not EARN such income noting that the translation on the Immigration website was prepared by the law firm Tillike & Gibbins.

Correct me if I'm wrong about this but the OP doesn't meet the retirement requirements because he's not over 50

[lopburi3]

Believe that is only intended as an example of the wording - not that he could obtain extension for retirement.

[cMe2]

Having already signed an agreement with Immigration based on an extension to OP's current visa status with a Bank Balance of 400k ThBht ( if I signed an aforesaid agreement I would have requested a copy ) regardless of an appeal as the aforementioned document is a current binding status to his gaining an extension as outlined to him and hisThai wife via a standing order through said Immigration Officer and his Office then that would be his requirement and now on file.

Beyond that - leave the Kingdom - return to home base - and make a fresh application at the local Embassy / Consular office .

If the Immigration Officer declared your Visa Extensions in the past Invalid and this is his interpretation related to you he has given you two options agree to one or the other, by signing an agreement you have shown consent to his and his offices directions.

Yes granted it was late in the afternoon you are under duress / pressure you had an IPad read through the appropriate application the officer sits across the desk and dispenses with or approves these applications , they had been approved before, but not anymore and not by him but on his terms.

The option you consented to is to reapply on his terms otherwise choose option two or three which is a lenghthy costly drawn out really worth all that emotional stress appeal but again he has proof of signature you chose option one

Best of luck with it all whichever option you decide

[spacebass]

The requirements are determined by the Immigration officer on the day of application.

They don't like doing marriage extensions ,

I had problems to.

In my case the Immigration officer stated :" It is impossible that the money shown in your bank account came from the sale of a condo because an alien has to have a work permit to sell a condo"

[yoshiwara]

The requirements are determined by the Immigration officer on the day of application.

They don't like doing marriage extensions ,

I had problems to.

In my case the Immigration officer stated :" It is impossible that the money shown in your bank account came from the sale of a condo because an alien has to have a work permit to sell a condo"

How did you respond to that?

[Time Traveller]

The requirements are determined by the Immigration officer on the day of application.

They don't like doing marriage extensions ,

I had problems to.

In my case the Immigration officer stated :" It is impossible that the money shown in your bank account came from the sale of a condo because an alien has to have a work permit to sell a condo"

Basically the the public service don't put their smartest employees in frontline immigration jobs - they're probably at the bottom of the pyramid. It's laughable that one of them would also be an expert on Labor law and Property Law. In anycase, there is nothing in the immigration regulations that specifies where the money comes from.

There is no reason marriage extensions should be anymore difficult than other types, it's only immigration's own mindset that makes it difficult for them.

[JLCrab]

Whether or not it should be, in obtaining any extension of stay the IMM mindset remains part of the package with which one must deal.