'Those accountable for 2010 should face court'

[Lite Beer]

EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW
'Those accountable for 2010 should face court'

Abhisit

Former PM Abhisit ready to face the music, says amnesty is wrong

Former Thai premier Abhisit Vejjajiva has vowed to fight a murder charge in connection with his order to disperse protesters during the 2010 anti-government demonstrations. But the leader of the opposition Democrat Party has spoken out against the current government's proposed amnesty for all political crimes from 2006 to August of this year. He spoke to Deutsche Presse-Agentur's Peter Janssen about his indictment, the 2010 clashes, and Thailand's political scene.

Q : Do you accept your indictment?

I think we should all be under the law, and although I feel there have been abuses of power by the Department of Special Investigation and [in] the attorney general's decision, I will take them to court for this. That is how we should be settling disputes about what is right and wrong.

What do you think of the charges?

The strange thing is that they are taking me and Suthep [Thaugsuban, former deputy prime minister] to court in personal capacities on ordinary murder charges, claiming that it had nothing to do with the fact that we were officials who were tasked with keeping order.

Q : What do you think is behind this approach?

If they were to charge me with abuse of power, then the Department of Special Investigation [on whose investigation the attorney general's decision was based] would not have the power to investigate me. The case would instead have to go to the National Anti-Corruption Commission, which is an independent body under the constitution.

Q : You are charged with giving orders that led to murder. Do you deny the charge?

I maintain that throughout the period of trouble Suthep and I had made our policies clear that we were trying to avoid losses. Live ammunition was used only after soldiers, police and ordinary people were attacked by others who were armed. Suthep's order to use live ammunition had clear rules as to under what circumstances and how it would be used.

Q : Do you regret what happened in 2010?

We all regret the losses that happened, which is why we are the ones who are taking the stance that there should be no amnesty for such crimes, and whoever should be held accountable for this should go through the legal process.

Wouldn't your case set a good precedent for ending Thailand's culture of impunity for politicians?

You are absolutely right. The country needs to prove to itself that we are going to move beyond this culture of impunity, which is why we oppose the amnesty bill. As to who should be held accountable for the events of 2010, for us I think the best people to determine that would be the courts. We can't cut short the process. It [an amnesty] would make people think, 'Why is the government so keen on making sure the truth never comes out?' After all the propaganda of trying to label Suthep and me as murderers, why not press on?

Q : You and Thaksin are often seen as being at opposite poles in Thai politics. What does Thaksin represent to you, politically, and what do you represent?

I represent liberal democratic values, which means respect for human rights, a belief that a healthy democracy requires certain standards of governance and attitudes, and culture to support a truly liberal and democratic society. I'm not sure that Thaksin represents anything politically. He is not about principles. He is about business and political interests.

Q : And yet Thaksin's parties and policies have won every election since 2001. Why?

The political machinery that he has created has produced policies that have resonated with the people. I don't deny that.

Q : Are liberal democratic principles enough to win an election?

You have to admit that politics in the past two decades has moved towards bread-and-butter issues rather than principles. I think we now offer clear alternative plans on how we handle rice, how we handle agriculture, and government investments. I think we can chip away at their lead.

-- The Nation 2013-11-03

[tominbkk]

Clear-headed guy. Buddha help him if Thaksin gets back.

[Microwave]

The person who should be held accountable for 2010 lives in Dubai and carries a Montenegro passport. 2010 was a slow-motion coup attempt.

[LuckyLew]

when will the PM at the time if Tai Bak be brought up on charges?

[tomross46]

The person who should be held accountable for 2010 lives in Dubai and carries a Montenegro passport. 2010 was a slow-motion coup attempt.

It was not a coup attempt. The coup occurred, the government than was overthrown, by street violence,.murder, arson and intimidation, brought about by large sums of money from a foreign entity. Now the government has been bought and paid for, Big Brother will control the present by changing history. Zero hour will happen and all actions the occurred from 2000 - 2006 will be white washed.

[Thaddeus]

'Those accountable for 2010 should face court'

Yes he should.

But he is working very hard to try and make sure that never happens.

[worgeordie]

Even the dog knew, that the Red shirt insurrection would result

in deadly force,what else was there to do,the Government was

forced to react,which was likely what the leaders of the Red shirts

wanted,martyrs are are big plus for anyones cause,as long as

its the underlings ,

regards Worgeordie

[maengda]

Aphisit was patient during that rally. It was a last resort to use live ammunition.

I would like to see how our current PM would answer a set of similar questions.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Thaddeus]

Aphisit was patient during that rally. It was a last resort to use live ammunition.

I would like to see how our current PM would answer a set of similar questions.

Part of me says that I hope she never finds out.

[fab4]

Aphisit was patient during that rally. It was a last resort to use live ammunition.

I would like to see how our current PM would answer a set of similar questions.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Actually it was his intent to use live ammunition from the beginning of the advance on the UDD on April 10th 2010. He just lied to everybody denying live ammunition had been used. Suthep even went as far as to suggest that the UDD shot each other.

It was definitely NOT last resort

[fab4]

'Those accountable for 2010 should face court'

Yes he should.

But he is working very hard to try and make sure that never happens.

You're damn right he is - So far abhisit has said he's covered by the Emergency Decree and then threatened to sue the DSI and the Attorney General. Curious reactions by a man who regards himself as cleaner than the driven snow.

[klubex99]

Got to love his integrity. Abhisit and Suthep are both willing to stand trial and possibly face life in prison or even worse, the death penalty rather than adopt this stupid blanket amnesty bill all for the sake of clearing one man.

This is the sort of person Thailand needs. Not the cowardly and unethical scoundrel they have running it now.

It still leaves the question though that I have still not had answered.

The actual amnesty is only for 'politically motivated offenses' dating from Sept 2006 to Aug 2013

So Thaksin still has charges for breech of bail, absconding from court and the land deal, which to me, are not 'politically motivated offenses'.

At least 2 of these offenses should still be hanging over him. He was actually convicted in his absence. That makes him a convicted felon. Even if he is pardoned under the amnesty, he is still a convicted felon, and under the constitution, he can not stand as an MP which means, he can never be a prime minister.

[whybother]

You're dam_n right he is - So far abhisit has said he's covered by the Emergency Decree and then threatened to sue the DSI and the Attorney General. Curious reactions by a man who regards himself as cleaner than the driven snow.

One of the reasons he is suing the DSI and OAG is because if he issued the orders in his official capacity, they don't have jurisdiction as it should be dealt with by the NACC.

He has been charged in a personal capacity. How can he issue orders to the army in his personal capacity?

[hellodolly]

when will the PM at the time if Tai Bak be brought up on charges?

As I stated on another thread.

This amnesty will not cover that and given the current governments stance on the 2010 red shirt armed with guns and rocket launchers which they used against every day citizens Thaksin should be charged with the Tai Bak massacre of over 80 unarmed citizens.

My suggestion is to send him down south to be tried there where he committed the crime. It would not solve the problem but it would remove most of the reason that we have the problem down there now and justice would be served.

A win win situation.

[ridkun]

'Those accountable for 2010 should face court'

Yes he should.

But he is working very hard to try and make sure that never happens.

You're dam_n right he is - So far abhisit has said he's covered by the Emergency Decree and then threatened to sue the DSI and the Attorney General. Curious reactions by a man who regards himself as cleaner than the driven snow.

Facing court doesn't mean he is guilty. Facing court doesn't mean that current government can drag him to the court any way they can and charge him with any charges they see fit.

[Robby nz]

Suthep even went as far as to suggest that the UDD shot each other.

I remember clearly when the shooting first started there was an interview on Tele with a red shirt in his hospital bed.

He told that the red leaders had told them to line up facing the army.

He said he was in the second rank from the front and he was shot in the back.

He was convinced the army had shot him.

I remember it because I commented at the time that the army must have been using Aussi boomerang bullets to achieve that one.

Any lot who would fire grenades at their fellow citizens without any qualms would for certain have no hesitation in shooting anyone.

[rubl]

Aphisit was patient during that rally. It was a last resort to use live ammunition.

I would like to see how our current PM would answer a set of similar questions.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Actually it was his intent to use live ammunition from the beginning of the advance on the UDD on April 10th 2010. He just lied to everybody denying live ammunition had been used. Suthep even went as far as to suggest that the UDD shot each other.

It was definitely NOT last resort

Mind you, end of February 2010 after the court decided to confiscate 47 billion of Thaksin's illgotten gains grenades started to rain on Bangkok, somehow. Non-red-shirts targetted, by accident of course.

Army in gunbattles with peaceful, unarmed protesters. Sure only after the first few dozen non-red-shirts had died should the PM let the army carry ammunition. No need to be prepared for the worst which I'm sure intelligence had hinted at. Plus the bragging renegade general Seh Daeng of course.

what would people have said if on April 10th we only had dead soldiers? "PM Abhisit incompetent, should resign" ?

[rubl]

You're dam_n right he is - So far abhisit has said he's covered by the Emergency Decree and then threatened to sue the DSI and the Attorney General. Curious reactions by a man who regards himself as cleaner than the driven snow.

One of the reasons he is suing the DSI and OAG is because if he issued the orders in his official capacity, they don't have jurisdiction as it should be dealt with by the NACC.

He has been charged in a personal capacity. How can he issue orders to the army in his personal capacity?

Plus k. Abhisit is making use of his democratic rights. Some may not understand that that has nothing to do with guilt or no guilt, just with justice, rights and of course not taking things laying down.

Edited November 3, 2013 by rubl

[rfukata]

In Thailand no one is accountable for anything so this is no big deal.

[Pi Sek]

You're dam_n right he is - So far abhisit has said he's covered by the Emergency Decree and then threatened to sue the DSI and the Attorney General. Curious reactions by a man who regards himself as cleaner than the driven snow.

One of the reasons he is suing the DSI and OAG is because if he issued the orders in his official capacity, they don't have jurisdiction as it should be dealt with by the NACC.

He has been charged in a personal capacity. How can he issue orders to the army in his personal capacity?

Indeed. This has been done to death by almost every informed commentator both inside and outside of Thailand - the DSI and OAG are acting outside their jurisdiction and the NACC have neither been instructed nor authorised to open any investigation. I would like to see the NACC open charges against Abhisit and Suthep, because this is the only honest way that they can be convicted or cleared. In the interests of reconciliation, I feel this MUST happen.

Got to love his integrity. Abhisit and Suthep are both willing to stand trial and possibly face life in prison or even worse, the death penalty rather than adopt this stupid blanket amnesty bill all for the sake of clearing one man.

This is the sort of person Thailand needs. Not the cowardly and unethical scoundrel they have running it now.

It still leaves the question though that I have still not had answered.

The actual amnesty is only for 'politically motivated offenses' dating from Sept 2006 to Aug 2013

So Thaksin still has charges for breech of bail, absconding from court and the land deal, which to me, are not 'politically motivated offenses'.

At least 2 of these offenses should still be hanging over him. He was actually convicted in his absence. That makes him a convicted felon. Even if he is pardoned under the amnesty, he is still a convicted felon, and under the constitution, he can not stand as an MP which means, he can never be a prime minister.

Whilst I totally agree on the integrity part, he also has political reasons for facing threat of death penalty etc instead of accepting amnesty - if the amnesty stands, he will never be able to stand up and say he fought unjust charges in court. Because of this, his political career will always be hindered by those who remain convinced that he ordered the "indiscriminate shooting of protesters", which of course he didn't. (He was very careful at the time to explain under which circumstances bullets were to be used, and I fully agree that non-peaceful armed protesters deserved to be neutralised by official armed forces. The problem is the shooting of unarmed peaceful protesters, soldiers, medics, etc - some of whom lost their lives.)

In response to your unanswered question, are you sure amnesty is for "politically motivated offenses"? I thought it was for "politically motivated convictions" (which would apply for convictions post-2006 for crimes pre-2006), but I suspect the language used in the amnesty bill is not entirely clear on this as I've also heard it's for "political crimes", "politically motivated prosecution"...

It wouldn't be too hard for a top lawyer to convince a court that his breach of bail and absconding from court charges would be political if investigation of his ex-wife's land purchase was political. He had to run to avoid the political witch hunt, he can argue.

[billd766]

Aphisit was patient during that rally. It was a last resort to use live ammunition.

I would like to see how our current PM would answer a set of similar questions.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Actually it was his intent to use live ammunition from the beginning of the advance on the UDD on April 10th 2010. He just lied to everybody denying live ammunition had been used. Suthep even went as far as to suggest that the UDD shot each other.

It was definitely NOT last resort

Do you have ANY PROOF at all or are you just spouting your usual crap?

In other words prove it yourself or just shut up.

If you CAN personally prove it then why have you waited until now to say so?

If you CANNOT then stop spouting lies and crap.

Edited November 3, 2013 by billd766

[Baerboxer]

Aphisit was patient during that rally. It was a last resort to use live ammunition.

I would like to see how our current PM would answer a set of similar questions.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Actually it was his intent to use live ammunition from the beginning of the advance on the UDD on April 10th 2010. He just lied to everybody denying live ammunition had been used. Suthep even went as far as to suggest that the UDD shot each other.

It was definitely NOT last resort

You have proof of this? You could be an important witness. Have you presented this "evidence" to the DSI ?

If you don't have proof, we must assume you rather than Abhisit are not telling the truth.

[Baerboxer]

You're dam_n right he is - So far abhisit has said he's covered by the Emergency Decree and then threatened to sue the DSI and the Attorney General. Curious reactions by a man who regards himself as cleaner than the driven snow.

One of the reasons he is suing the DSI and OAG is because if he issued the orders in his official capacity, they don't have jurisdiction as it should be dealt with by the NACC.

He has been charged in a personal capacity. How can he issue orders to the army in his personal capacity?

Spot on! Just another example of PTP making their rules up as they go along. If their leader gets back, then it will be worse. Simply do as we say, whatever we say, not as we do.

[klauskunkel]

'Those accountable for 2010 should face court'

Yes he should.

But he is working very hard to try and make sure that never happens.

You're dam_n right he is - So far abhisit has said he's covered by the Emergency Decree and then threatened to sue the DSI and the Attorney General. Curious reactions by a man who regards himself as cleaner than the driven snow.

At least cleaner than Thaksin, who ran away tail between legs because of tax evasion charge. Abhisit is facing a murder charge and is still here...

[Baerboxer]

'Those accountable for 2010 should face court'

Yes he should.

But he is working very hard to try and make sure that never happens.

You're dam_n right he is - So far abhisit has said he's covered by the Emergency Decree and then threatened to sue the DSI and the Attorney General. Curious reactions by a man who regards himself as cleaner than the driven snow.

Actually Fabby, I think Thaddeus, was being a little bit clever with his response. I think he was referring to the real criminal, the one overseas, perhaps in Dubai, who masterminded and financed the insurgency of 2010. The same man trying very hard to whitewash himself of political and criminal actions and assume dictatorial powers over Thailand.

Thaddeus - my apologies if I misread your post sir.

[Thaddeus]

'Those accountable for 2010 should face court'

Yes he should.

But he is working very hard to try and make sure that never happens.

You're dam_n right he is - So far abhisit has said he's covered by the Emergency Decree and then threatened to sue the DSI and the Attorney General. Curious reactions by a man who regards himself as cleaner than the driven snow.

Actually Fabby, I think Thaddeus, was being a little bit clever with his response. I think he was referring to the real criminal, the one overseas, perhaps in Dubai, who masterminded and financed the insurgency of 2010. The same man trying very hard to whitewash himself of political and criminal actions and assume dictatorial powers over Thailand.

Thaddeus - my apologies if I misread your post sir.

Nope, you read it right, as I am sure most did.

I'm reasonably certain that fab4 did also, but it is very difficult to stop spinning when the ability to spin is all you have.

[Skywalker69]

 

Aphisit was patient during that rally. It was a last resort to use live ammunition.

I would like to see how our current PM would answer a set of similar questions.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

 

Actually it was his intent to use live ammunition from the beginning of the advance on the UDD on April 10th 2010. He just lied to everybody denying live ammunition had been used. Suthep even went as far as to suggest that the UDD shot each other.

 

It was definitely NOT last resort

 

 

You have proof of this? You could be an important witness. Have you presented this "evidence" to the DSI ?

 

If you don't have proof, we must assume you rather than Abhisit are not telling the truth.

He doesn't have a shit, he is just trolling.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[kirk0233]

Aphisit was patient during that rally. It was a last resort to use live ammunition.

I would like to see how our current PM would answer a set of similar questions.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

He was too patient.

[yoshiwara]

Aphisit was patient during that rally. It was a last resort to use live ammunition.

I would like to see how our current PM would answer a set of similar questions.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Actually it was his intent to use live ammunition from the beginning of the advance on the UDD on April 10th 2010. He just lied to everybody denying live ammunition had been used. Suthep even went as far as to suggest that the UDD shot each other.

It was definitely NOT last resort

Every so often a new red apologist comes on line spouting the junk they peddle to the red troops. It just comes out of thin air. You wonder where our old friends from the boiler room are these days.

Their problem is whether to support Thaksin's deal or be an unhappy red. Trying to reconcile what has been up to now unconditional support for Thaksin with the reds being played as disposable soldiers must be quite galling. Since, however, the reds are ultimately bought and paid for, their future lies four-squarely in being Thaksin's reserve army. For now though, just lump it lads.

Edited November 3, 2013 by yoshiwara

[Misterwhisper]

when will the PM at the time if Tai Bak be brought up on charges?

The original bill was to cover the time period following the coup, i.e. 14 September 2006, and up.

However, the meddled amended bill that was just passed by parliament was changed to whitewash everyone for anything "politically motivated" as far back as January 2004, i.e. almost 2 years before the coup. Tak Bai happened in October 2004, the Krue Se mosque incident in April 2004.

I think that clearly answers your question, because pre-dating the time period coverage of that wretched bill certainly was no coincidence.

I am actually surprised they didn't date it back even further to also include Thaksin's ill-conceived "War on Drugs", which merrily kicked off in early 2003.