Student deaths stir anger in strife-hit Thai south

[webfact]

Feature
Student deaths stir anger in strife-hit Thai south
by Aidan JONES

KRONG PINANG, November 5, 2013 (AFP) - Shot in the back as they fled police, the killing of three unarmed students in Thailand's insurgency-hit south has inflamed controversy over a culture of impunity among security forces that activists say boosts support for rebels.

Most of the 5,700 people who have died since the conflict erupted in the Muslim-dominated region in 2004 have been civilians caught in rebel attacks and assassinations, or raids by police or military forces.

Students Lookman and Samree Dueramae -- brothers aged 20 and 17 -- and their childhood friend Ismael Paetoh, 17, were shot dead in a police-led raid on their hamlet in Krong Pinang district, Yala province, in April last year.

Two suspected Muslim militants, the apparent targets of the raid, were also killed when police and soldiers found the group taking shelter from rain in a lean-to in a rubber plantation.

"My sons were not rebels, they were good boys... but they were shot like they were cats or chickens," said Mariyea Bersa, mother of Lookman and Samree.

From her wood-beamed house overlooking the plantation, Mariyea recalls her sons leaving home to catch birds in the nearby forest.

"I heard gunshots and a while later I saw an army ranger pass my house with a bird cage in his hand," she said, her sons' frayed mattresses still leaning against a wall behind her. "Then I knew my sons were dead."

Villagers wearily accept they are powerless to hold to account the militants, who target Thai forces, or people perceived to be working for the authorities but they demand justice when civilians are killed by police and soldiers.

The kingdom's security forces have faced allegations of abuses ranging from arbitrary detentions and torture to killings of civilians.

Yet none has been successfully prosecuted in the near-decade of fighting.

An inquest in August showed that although Lookman, Samree and Ismael were not suspects they were still shot several times -- including in the back -- by policemen and soldiers who "could not separate who was who".

Absolving the security forces of blame, the ruling said the authorities "were acting in the line of duty".

That justification holds little weight with the victims' families, while rights groups say such cases make good recruiting tools for the insurgents.

Killings by authorities strip villagers of "confidence in the judicial process" according to lawyer Adilan Ali-ishak of the Muslim Attorney Centre, whose organisation is representing the families.

"It's a loss for the government as villagers won't tip them off or act as witnesses because they don't feel the state offers them fairness or protection."

A recent report by the kingdom's Office of the Attorney General (OAG) criticised authorities for detaining suspects for long periods without trial, while citing examples of forced confessions, torture and accidental killings of civilians.

Locals still recall with fury the deaths of 85 anti-government protesters in 2004 at Tak Bai, the majority of them by suffocation as they were stacked -- hands bound -- on top of each other in army trucks.

That issue became a clarion call for rebels while the cascade of allegations of abuses since has also undercut Thailand's efforts to win "hearts and minds" in the deep south --- which was annexed by the kingdom a century ago.

The head of Thailand's army in the south told AFP there have historically been cases of soldiers torturing suspects or killing civilians.

"There are no such cases now," said Lieutenant General Sakol Chuentrakool, commander of the Fourth Army.
"Soldiers do not intend to kill civilians. No one does it on purpose... their job is to protect the people."

But he conceded "old wounds" are used by the rebels "to accuse us, and pull the people in" to their movement, which is fighting for a level of autonomy from Bangkok.

While the authorities say they are making efforts to curb civilian deaths, rights groups note a disturbing rise in the number of alleged extra-judicial killings of rebel suspects on government blacklists.

Such killings go unpunished in a murky and often highly localised conflict, making it impossible to verify who pulled the trigger.

But suspicion frequently falls on shadowy pro-government forces settling scores or taking out rebel commanders.

"There are people out there who think they have to take their own form of justice," said Hadee Hamidong, of peace group the Asia Foundation, which helped with the OAG study.

Several rounds of tentative peace talks have been held between Thailand and some rebel groups but, with a breakthrough seemingly distant, war-weary villagers remain caught between the two sides.

His hand bent by a stroke, Ishak Bersa, the 80-year-old grandfather of Lookman and Samree, said the house was quiet without the two brothers.

"I close my eyes to remember their faces, their figures running around the house," he said.

"We are angry that they were killed... but there is nothing we can do."


-- (c) Copyright AFP 2013-11-05

[winstonc]

such a sad situation down there..always the same......ordinary people caught in the middle,as usual over here no-one is accountable....

[aussieinthailand]

OK please don't get me wrong!!! if innocent civilian's then yes justice must be served.

But I wonder this, were there smiling nurses flashing the V sign in photo's over the bodies and then proudly uploaded on the internet?

harsh maybe, as was the photo's

[simple1]

OK please don't get me wrong!!! if innocent civilian's then yes justice must be served.

But I wonder this, were there smiling nurses flashing the V sign in photo's over the bodies and then proudly uploaded on the internet?

harsh maybe, as was the photo's

You do not know if the soldiers were / were not smiling & posing after shooting these unarmed people in the back.

We don't know what actually happened in this incident, but I believe there has not been a single case of a member of the security forces being punished for torture or extrajudicial killings in the deep South.

[squarethecircle]

OK please don't get me wrong!!! if innocent civilian's then yes justice must be served.

But I wonder this, were there smiling nurses flashing the V sign in photo's over the bodies and then proudly uploaded on the internet?

harsh maybe, as was the photo's

You do not know if the soldiers were / were not smiling & posing after shooting these unarmed people in the back.

We don't know what actually happened in this incident, but I believe there has not been a single case of a member of the security forces being punished for torture or extrajudicial killings in the deep South.

They may have been unarmed but it seems unlikely they are as uninnocent as their parents proclaim. If you are hanging out with suspected insurgent terrorists in a rubber plantation in an insurgent ridden district likely used for illegal border crossings for terrorist training, and you dont cooperate with the authorities, do u really deserve more sympathy than the definitely innocent Buddhist civilians who have recently been massacred...but of course got no attention from the human rights watchdogs?

My experience with Thai authorities says you really have to be F-in up for them to go after you. The same cannot be said of the terrorists or the criminal drug dealing scum who get the sympathy from HRW and the supposedly progressive human rights crowd.

Edited November 5, 2013 by squarethecircle

[coma]

They maybe innocent as the mother portrays. But what were they doing associating with wanted terrorist ? Terrorists that have made such a name for themselves that required security forces to conduct an armed raid in order to take them into custody?

[simple1]

OK please don't get me wrong!!! if innocent civilian's then yes justice must be served.

But I wonder this, were there smiling nurses flashing the V sign in photo's over the bodies and then proudly uploaded on the internet?

harsh maybe, as was the photo's

You do not know if the soldiers were / were not smiling & posing after shooting these unarmed people in the back.

We don't know what actually happened in this incident, but I believe there has not been a single case of a member of the security forces being punished for torture or extrajudicial killings in the deep South.

They may have been unarmed but it seems unlikely they are as uninnocent as their parents proclaim. If you are hanging out with suspected insurgent terrorists in a rubber plantation in an insurgent ridden district likely used for illegal border crossings for terrorist training, and you dont cooperate with the authorities, do u really deserve more sympathy than the definitely innocent Buddhist civilians who have recently been massacred...but of course got no attention from the human rights watchdogs?

My experience with Thai authorities says you really have to be F-in up for them to go after you. The same cannot be said of the terrorists or the criminal drug dealing scum who get the sympathy from HRW and the supposedly progressive human rights crowd.

An example from Amnesty International

"Amnesty urged the insurgents "to immediately cease attacks deliberately targeting civilians, indiscriminate attacks, and other violations of international humanitarian law, many of which constitute war crimes".

[squarethecircle]

But no outcry,public service announcements, or the like. They put the Burmese monk on the front page of Time for being a "Buddhist terrorist" but show no outcry over various atrocities committed in places like India and Thai. Same with drone attacks in Pakistan.

They look the other way if the bigoted a-hole is brown and especially Muslim. At least 2 Thai Buddhist couples were murdered by the poor little oppressed freedom fighters in the past 2 months, but there is no outcry because it isnt PC to associate Islam and terrorism.

Edited November 5, 2013 by squarethecircle

[klubex99]

Such killings go unpunished in a murky and often highly localised conflict, making it impossible to verify who pulled the trigger.

They have been able to match bullets with guns in England since 1835, and has been used in court to get a conviction as early as 1902

It's called ballistic fingerprinting.

One day Thailand will catch up to the rest of the world, unless of course it in 'inconvenient' for them to use this technology.

[stoffel45]

But then of course, islam is a religion of peace and compassion is it not?

[edwinchester]

OK please don't get me wrong!!!    if innocent civilian's then yes justice must be served.  

 

But I wonder this,    were there smiling nurses flashing the V sign in photo's over the bodies and then proudly uploaded on the internet?  

harsh maybe,   as was the photo's

 

 

 

You do not know if the soldiers were / were not smiling & posing after shooting these unarmed people in the back.

 

We don't know what actually happened in this incident, but I believe there has not been a single case of a member of the security forces being punished for torture or extrajudicial killings in the deep South.

They may have been unarmed but it seems unlikely they are as uninnocent as their parents proclaim. If you are hanging out with suspected insurgent terrorists in a rubber plantation in an insurgent ridden district likely used for illegal border crossings for terrorist training, and you dont cooperate with the authorities, do u really deserve more sympathy than the definitely innocent Buddhist civilians who have recently been massacred...but of course got no attention from the human rights watchdogs?

My experience with Thai authorities says you really have to be F-in up for them to go after you. The same cannot be said of the terrorists or the criminal drug dealing scum who get the sympathy from HRW and the supposedly progressive human rights crowd.

We will never know why they were in the same shelter as the SUSPECTED insurgents because they were shot in the back and can't give their side of the story.

[Robby nz]

Doesn't seem to be any problem when teachers are targeted and killed along with the odd school kid who gets in the way.

Where is the local anger when the volunteer rangers get blown by bombs.

The army are at a huge disadvantage in this in that they get vilified for any thing like this.

Some talk of rules of engagement but only for the army never for the insurgents who recognize no rules.

Sure it is terrible when innocent people get caught up in these things and killed but are those teachers who are trying to educate the kids not innocents also?

[pacovl46]

They can tell me what they want, the villagers know exactly who in their village is on which side, and if you hang out with these people despite the fact that they are wanted/hunted by the government then don't be surprised if you get shot. Having said that, simply shooting at a group of people instead of arresting them is simply outrageous! Especially when the cops are not being fired at and the "wanted" are just running away!

[tonika]

Where I come from we have a saying, ' If you fly with the crows, you must expect to be shot as one '

[geezer2]

Doesn't seem to be any problem when teachers are targeted and killed along with the odd school kid who gets in the way.

Where is the local anger when the volunteer rangers get blown by bombs.

The army are at a huge disadvantage in this in that they get vilified for any thing like this.

Some talk of rules of engagement but only for the army never for the insurgents who recognize no rules.

Sure it is terrible when innocent people get caught up in these things and killed but are those teachers who are trying to educate the kids not innocents also?

Well put robby..I can only agree with you.

[IBoldnewguy]

Where I come from we have a saying, ' If you fly with the crows, you must expect to be shot as one '

This does sound cold... but I agree... there is a price to pay or consequences to be faced as the result of a choice.

Life is not fair... nor will it become so... It is SAD and such a waste that these young lives were lost but it is just as much a waste for young military conscripts to die all because of greed and politics disguised as religion.... religious and political moral incompetents leading the unimaginative to accomplish the useless..... slaughtering the young, innocent and helpless for their own selfish, egotistical ambitions....

What would change for the poor people if the Muslims get what they what.... very little... religious injustice replacing political injustice... and in all probability they would lose the right to protest the injustice... however small that right might be in the current situation.

And the next battle would be to decide which Sect of Muslims would get to make the laws and decisions. (All major religions have these theological splits; here in the US there are 1500 Christian denominations and Worldwide there are 30,000, give or take a few.) To paraphrase a Christopher Hitchens comment: They cannot all be RIGHT and in all probability none of them are!

What would change for the poor people if the Muslims do not get what they what.... very little... but they would at least retain the right to protest and hopefully challenge the current system to lawfully change.

Edited November 5, 2013 by IBoldnewguy

[Colabamumbai]

OK please don't get me wrong!!! if innocent civilian's then yes justice must be served.

But I wonder this, were there smiling nurses flashing the V sign in photo's over the bodies and then proudly uploaded on the internet?

harsh maybe, as was the photo's

You do not know if the soldiers were / were not smiling & posing after shooting these unarmed people in the back.

We don't know what actually happened in this incident, but I believe there has not been a single case of a member of the security forces being punished for torture or extrajudicial killings in the deep South.

Their punishment is death by roadside bombs.

[capt_canada42]

there are no winners in war we are all losers ....

[simple1]

Doesn't seem to be any problem when teachers are targeted and killed along with the odd school kid who gets in the way.

Where is the local anger when the volunteer rangers get blown by bombs.

The army are at a huge disadvantage in this in that they get vilified for any thing like this.

Some talk of rules of engagement but only for the army never for the insurgents who recognize no rules.

Sure it is terrible when innocent people get caught up in these things and killed but are those teachers who are trying to educate the kids not innocents also?

Should not the State actors be held to a higher ethical and moral standard than the militant groups, otherwise ultimately where is the difference?

Quite a good article covering the issue of teacher killings at the URL below.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2013/01/201312981049122230.html

Edited November 6, 2013 by simple1

[cbluck58]

It amazes me that whilst the govt. can waste time, money and parliamentary time on a highly unpopular and mostly useless amnesty bill , this situation is allowed to just slowly worsen , fragmenting society in the South of LOS, and costing the lives of both innocents and activists alike.

[aussieinthailand]

OK please don't get me wrong!!! if innocent civilian's then yes justice must be served.

But I wonder this, were there smiling nurses flashing the V sign in photo's over the bodies and then proudly uploaded on the internet?

harsh maybe, as was the photo's

You do not know if the soldiers were / were not smiling & posing after shooting these unarmed people in the back.

We don't know what actually happened in this incident, but I believe there has not been a single case of a member of the security forces being punished for torture or extrajudicial killings in the deep South.

I didn't say anything about soldiers posing,,, I simple said I wonder if nurses flashed V signs and smiling then proudly upload the photos on internet?

[simple1]

OK please don't get me wrong!!! if innocent civilian's then yes justice must be served.

But I wonder this, were there smiling nurses flashing the V sign in photo's over the bodies and then proudly uploaded on the internet?

harsh maybe, as was the photo's

You do not know if the soldiers were / were not smiling & posing after shooting these unarmed people in the back.

We don't know what actually happened in this incident, but I believe there has not been a single case of a member of the security forces being punished for torture or extrajudicial killings in the deep South.

I didn't say anything about soldiers posing,,, I simple said I wonder if nurses flashed V signs and smiling then proudly upload the photos on internet?

I know you didn't, but seems I misunderstood your comment, thought you were talking about moral equivalence

[Credo]

*deleted*

Should not the State actors be held to a higher ethical and moral standard than the militant groups, otherwise ultimately where is the difference?

Quite a good article covering the issue of teacher killings at the URL below.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2013/01/201312981049122230.html

Perhaps the State should be held to a higher standard, but the problem is that if the insurgents get their way, they will become the State. Will they then be held to a standard that is foreign to them?

[simple1]

*deleted*

Should not the State actors be held to a higher ethical and moral standard than the militant groups, otherwise ultimately where is the difference?

Quite a good article covering the issue of teacher killings at the URL below.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2013/01/201312981049122230.html

Perhaps the State should be held to a higher standard, but the problem is that if the insurgents get their way, they will become the State. Will they then be held to a standard that is foreign to them?

Of course they would be held to higher standards, the issue is compliance as is the case with Thai security forces.

All forms of dictatorships use torture, whether they are Islamic or not & are condemned by some governments and all human rights groups. Of course there are some examples of double standards by the "good guys" e.g. renditioning and as in a recent report of doctors assisting with torture.

[squarethecircle]

"All forms of dictatorships use torture, whether they are Islamic or not & are condemned by some governments and all human rights groups."

Seems that torture and extrajudicial killing are sometimes justifiable morally. We've seen no evidence that the Thai authorities systematically use these in an unjustifiable way. We know very well that the enemy does target innocents and is completely unjustified in doing so. Conditions have to be pretty darn extreme to justify the ongoing atrocities in the south, but I guess the Muslim Attorney Center is not concerned when it's a kaffir on the receiving end.

[simple1]

"All forms of dictatorships use torture, whether they are Islamic or not & are condemned by some governments and all human rights groups."

Seems that torture and extrajudicial killing are sometimes justifiable morally. We've seen no evidence that the Thai authorities systematically use these in an unjustifiable way. We know very well that the enemy does target innocents and is completely unjustified in doing so. Conditions have to be pretty darn extreme to justify the ongoing atrocities in the south, but I guess the Muslim Attorney Center is not concerned when it's a kaffir on the receiving end.

MAC charter is to provide services for Thai Muslims in the deep South who have been abused by the Thai security forces, with very limited resources, not to investigate those responsible for militant attacks on civilians etc. Somchai Neelaphaijit who establised MAC was disappeared/murdered by Thai security forces, wonder why that happened....

There is very little evidence of torture and extrajudicial killings, that you support, precisely because under martial law victims can only be represented by a military prosecutor and once a ruling is made in a military court, the victims cannot appeal. However there are more details and a few case overviews at the URLs below:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Little-compensation-for-torture-victims-forum-told-30209196.html

http://www.humanrights.asia/news/urgent-appeals/UA-237-2007