Phuket expats risking lives on the road to stay in paradise

[webfact]

Phuket expats risking lives on the road to stay in paradise
Phuket Gazette


Renita Dequina Polido, from the Philippians, was a singer working and living in Phuket. Photo: Facebook

PHUKET: -- The visa van crash that took the life of Filipina singer Renita Dequina Polido on October 21 (story here) sent shock waves through the Phuket expat community and raised questions about the logic of a system that requires foreign workers to leave the country to get visas and renew 90-day permits-to-stay so regularly.

The early morning accident occurred on a rain-slicked road in Trang when the Penang-bound van, that passengers say was speeding, spun out of control and struck a tree, killing Ms Polido, seriously injuring four other passengers and leaving the remaining six with minor injuries.

Polish national Friedrich Menning broke a leg and ribs in the accident, and after being treated in Trang was transferred to Phuket International Hospital.

“It was worse than the the worst nightmare I’ve ever had,” he said.

“My Thai girlfriend and I were sitting in the back of the van with Ms Polido. The driver was going very fast – I’d say about 130 to 150kmh; the road was slippery from the rain. The van slid a little at one point, but the driver managed to correct the vehicle. Then it slid again, and he lost control,” Mr Menning said.

“We spun 180 degrees and the back of the van, where we were, hit a tree at full speed. It happened so fast. Afterward, I realized I was stuck in the van and called for help.

Mr Menning's girlfriend, Wilaiporn Inlee, lost consciousness after the accident and woke up in Trang hospital with a broken arm and a head wound.

“I got 10 stitches for the cut on my head. I have bruises all over my body. My back still hurts. I had a severe headache at first, but fortunately a brain CT scan showed that I’m alright,” she said.

The experience left Mr Menning questioning the immigration system that requires him to leave the country in order to stay in it.

“I’m scared,” he said, “I have to put my life in the hands of an unprofessional driver, and risk my life for a paper, for a stamp,” he said.

“I wish we could report to the immigration office in Phuket Town instead. I’m willing to abide by any requirements they have, I just don’t want to have to keep leaving the country,” he said.

Phuket Immigration Superintendent Sanchai Chokkajaykij expressed regret over the accident.

“What happened was really sad. No one wants something like that to happen,” he said.

“Unfortunately, we don’t have the authority to issue visas or 90-day permits-to-stay at our office in Phuket Town,” Col Sanchai said.

“Only consulates and embassies can issue visas, and only immigration at the borders and airports can issue the 90-day permits-to-stay,” he said.

“For those people who are unable to obtain one year permits-to-stay… the best option might be to fly. It’s more expensive, but it’s safer,” he said.

Phuket Immigration Inspector Napat Nusen explained that certain requirements needed to be met in order for foreigners to receive a one-year permit-to-stay along with their one-year visa.

The two major hurdles for most one-year permit-to-stay applicants are a minimum salary requirement and minimum ratio of Thai to foreign workers at the business registered on their work permit, Lt Col Napat said.

“There are other requirements, but those two tend to be the ones that are the biggest obstacles,” he said.

“These requirements are not in place to make life difficult for foreigners,” he said.

“They are in place to protect Thai workers. For example, if a company can pay foreigners a low salary – below the legal minimum – then they may prefer to hire foreigners over Thais. The salary requirement also helps us screen people. The assumption is that foreigners who can command at least our minimum salary will have higher skills than those who cannot. The higher the salary, the higher the skills should be.

The 90-day permit-to-stay that many foreigners in Phuket repeatedly renew was created for businessmen and women who live elsewhere, but need to travel to Thailand to work, he explained.

“Actually, we expect foreigners who want to stay here longer to get the one-year permit-to-stay,” he said.

Those expats who are required to cross the Thai border regularly will need to continue relying on visa run companies, or pay for flights.

Repeated attempts by the Phuket Gazette to contact the owner of Phen Phet Visa Run, which operated the van Mr Menning rode in, were unsuccessful. However, the owner of another company in Phuket, Thai Visa Run, explained her firm’s safety procedures.

“My company has been in operation for about seven years, and we’ve never had an accident,” she said.

“For the Phuket-to-Penang trip, we have two drivers, because it’s such a long way. One drives from Phuket to Hat Yai and the other from Hat Yai to Penang,” she said.

“Our vans have GPS which links to our computer system, so we can monitor the drivers and see where they are and how fast they are driving. If they are driving too fast, we call to tell them to slow down,” she said.

Until the day that 90-day permits-to-stay are issued on Phuket or requirements for one-year permits-to-stay are changed, careful consideration of method of transport may be the best defense, Col Sanchai said.

Source: http://www.phuketgazette.net/phuket_news/2013/Phuket-expats-risking-lives-on-the-road-to-stay-in-paradise-22723.html


-- Phuket Gazette 2013-11-06

[LivinginKata]

"Phuket Immigration Inspector Napat Nusen explained that certain requirements needed to be met in order for foreigners to receive a one-year permit-to-stay along with their one-year visa.

The two major hurdles for most one-year permit-to-stay applicants are a minimum salary requirement and minimum ratio of Thai to foreign workers at the business registered on their work permit, Lt Col Napat said."

If the deceased singer was working then she should had required a work permit. With a work permit then a one year extension would be available subject to salary paid. I guess she was earning enough for a WP but not enough for an extension.

[KarenBravo]

The root cause isn't the immigration rules, it's the crap, dangerous drivers.

[laurentbkk]

people have to understand that the 90 days bla bla is only money ...nothing else !!!

[JulesMad]

"raised questions about the logic of a system that requires foreign workers to leave the country to get visas and renew 90-day permits-to-stay so regularly."

Who said there is a "logic" behind this?!?

But the real issue are the mini-vans and their drivers....

[wilcopops]

The main problem is the old-men-in-Thai-government's attitude to foreigners

[Rockhound]

A lot of the mini buses are just taking loads of people to the border for visa renewal. if this was scrapped, and people could get new Visas in Phuket or Pattaya for example, there would be far less minibuses on the road, far less mayhem and far less deaths and injuries. I drive the road from Pattaya to Chantaburi fairly often and it is dangerous. I've also travelled the road in minibuses so I know how scary that can be too.

Of course the people who own the minibus companies would lose a lot of money too. I wonder who they are? And do they have any connection to the people who say that foreigners must travel out of the country to stay in it?...

[Lupatria]

Phuket Immigration Superintendent Sanchai Chokkajaykij expressed regret over the accident.
“What happened was really sad. No one wants something like that to happen,” he said.

What a stupid statement. Than why is nobody in this country getting his a## up and do something about road safety measures?

[eezergood]

Phuket Immigration Superintendent Sanchai Chokkajaykij expressed regret over the accident.

“What happened was really sad. No one wants something like that to happen,” he said.

What a stupid statement. Than why is nobody in this country getting his a## up and do something about road safety measures?

Because no one makes any money from it! and it doesnt impact their daily lives.

[oneday]

"For example, if a company can pay foreigners a low salary – below the legal minimum – then they may prefer to hire foreigners over Thais. "

Right, falang are lining up in droves to work for less than a Thai. I'm sure it would be easy to pick the countries where this is highly unlikely to be the case and so relax some of these stupid requirements. Go ahead and place this burden on the lower income countries around Thailand, but it's insane for people from the West to jump through some of these hoops. Thank goodness I have a retirement visa.

[Utley]

“These requirements are not in place to make life difficult for foreigners,” he said. “They are in place to protect Thai workers. For example, if a company can pay foreigners a low salary – below the legal minimum – then they may prefer to hire foreigners over Thais."

A country that has a 2% unemployment rate needs laws to protect the jobs of it's citizens from foreigners? Hmmm...What is wrong with this picture?

[silent]

Phuket Immigration Superintendent Sanchai Chokkajaykij expressed regret over the accident.

“What happened was really sad. No one wants something like that to happen,” he said.

What a stupid statement. Than why is nobody in this country getting his a## up and do something about road safety measures?

Have an idea to fix everything. We change it from the Land of Smiles (LOS) to just plain old LO$$

[BKKBrit]

“These requirements are not in place to make life difficult for foreigners,” he said. “They are in place to protect Thai workers. For example, if a company can pay foreigners a low salary – below the legal minimum – then they may prefer to hire foreigners over Thais."

A country that has a 2% unemployment rate needs laws to protect the jobs of it's citizens from foreigners? Hmmm...What is wrong with this picture?

So 'foreigners' are only Caucasian?!

[stevenl]

“These requirements are not in place to make life difficult for foreigners,” he said. “They are in place to protect Thai workers. For example, if a company can pay foreigners a low salary – below the legal minimum – then they may prefer to hire foreigners over Thais."

A country that has a 2% unemployment rate needs laws to protect the jobs of it's citizens from foreigners? Hmmm...What is wrong with this picture?

So 'foreigners' are only Caucasian?!

???

In case you did not notice, a Philippino woman died here.

[duanebigsby]

“These requirements are not in place to make life difficult for foreigners,” he said. “They are in place to protect Thai workers. For example, if a company can pay foreigners a low salary – below the legal minimum – then they may prefer to hire foreigners over Thais."

A country that has a 2% unemployment rate needs laws to protect the jobs of it's citizens from foreigners? Hmmm...What is wrong with this picture?

So 'foreigners' are only Caucasian?!

Exactly, if Thailand opens its borders to Philippines workers on a massive scale the hotels, hospitals, etc will hire them in droves. better English ,more educated, and extremely hard working.

[dansan]

The root cause isn't the immigration rules, it's the crap, dangerous drivers.

I am sorry but I have to disagree.

The immigration rules fuel the border run buses. If there was no incessant requirement for us of us that stay, live and work here then this would be a less frequent occurrence.

Yes, dangerous drivers are a problem but with an easier route to staying here we may not be all forced on a 90 day basis (or sooner) to have to sit with these buffoons in the back of an overcrowded and frankly unsafe mini-bus.

[cabanlit]

people have to understand that the 90 days bla bla is only money ...nothing else !!!

But, this is where you're so wrong - and I really can't grasp why they don't want to collect more money this way!

Last I heard was that the cost of certain extensions was about 1900 baht. That's paid to Immigration, so ends up in the coffers of Thailand.

Now, that roughly equates to a days visa run up to Ranong. And that money ends up in the business of the visa run company.

Instead of making people go all the way up there, if they simply charged the same money at Phuket Immigration for a stamp, the country would be 1900 baht better off each time, and the silly visa run process would end.

Far too logical to be implemented, though.

[dansan]

“These requirements are not in place to make life difficult for foreigners,” he said. “They are in place to protect Thai workers. For example, if a company can pay foreigners a low salary – below the legal minimum – then they may prefer to hire foreigners over Thais."

A country that has a 2% unemployment rate needs laws to protect the jobs of it's citizens from foreigners? Hmmm...What is wrong with this picture?

So 'foreigners' are only Caucasian?!

Exactly, if Thailand opens its borders to Philippines workers on a massive scale the hotels, hospitals, etc will hire them in droves. better English ,more educated, and extremely hard working.

So not unlike the way that they use, abuse and have constantly fed of the underpaid Burmese and Khmer migrant workers.

The Phillo's wuld have to go some to make them selves more affordable than those poor buggers.

[andreandre]

“These requirements are not in place to make life difficult for foreigners,” he said. “They are in place to protect Thai workers. For example, if a company can pay foreigners a low salary – below the legal minimum – then they may prefer to hire foreigners over Thais."

A country that has a 2% unemployment rate needs laws to protect the jobs of it's citizens from foreigners? Hmmm...What is wrong with this picture?

So 'foreigners' are only Caucasian?!

???

In case you did not notice, a Philippino woman died here.

????

In case you did not notice,the ? at the end of BKKBrit post makes it an interogative ..you know....a question,...

[Andre0720]

''The experience left Mr Menning questioning the immigration system that requires him to leave the country in order to stay in it''

This quote here, which I think is the way I ever saw it expressed.

One thought always went through my mind about this subject.

At least for Phuket, why not have a boat in international waters, to go to satisfy the requirement to leave the country?

Surely some country would see some benefit in having such a boat manned with customs officers....

I see international waters at 12 miles, some sites refer to a 25 mile distance....

Oh well, if it was that easy, would already have been done...

[LivinginKata]

people have to understand that the 90 days bla bla is only money ...nothing else !!!

But, this is where you're so wrong - and I really can't grasp why they don't want to collect more money this way!

Last I heard was that the cost of certain extensions was about 1900 baht. That's paid to Immigration, so ends up in the coffers of Thailand.

Now, that roughly equates to a days visa run up to Ranong. And that money ends up in the business of the visa run company.

Instead of making people go all the way up there, if they simply charged the same money at Phuket Immigration for a stamp, the country would be 1900 baht better off each time, and the silly visa run process would end.

Far too logical to be implemented, though.

Many TV members have been saying the same thing. The Thai Gov could take the 1,900 baht fee every 3 months, make some money, and save the folks all that insanity.

[thousandpercent]

The root cause isn't the immigration rules, it's the crap, dangerous drivers.

I am sorry but I have to disagree.

The immigration rules fuel the border run buses. If there was no incessant requirement for us of us that stay, live and work here then this would be a less frequent occurrence.

Yes, dangerous drivers are a problem but with an easier route to staying here we may not be all forced on a 90 day basis (or sooner) to have to sit with these buffoons in the back of an overcrowded and frankly unsafe mini-bus.

I think what Karen is saying is that it's dangerous here no matter your reason for being on the road, and that if it weren't, the visa run requirement wouldn't be so risky. Makes sense.

[thousandpercent]

“Unfortunately, we don’t have the authority to issue visas or 90-day permits-to-stay at our office in Phuket Town,” Col Sanchai said.

“Only consulates and embassies can issue visas, and only immigration at the borders and airports can issue the 90-day permits-to-stay,” he said.

Then why not require people to make visa runs to the nearest airport for 90 day permits-to-stay?

[mdmayes]

Do not expect Thailand to get rid of a major cash cow industry like Visa Running. To many Baht being generated (and filling Thais pockets) to stop.

[dansan]

The root cause isn't the immigration rules, it's the crap, dangerous drivers.

I am sorry but I have to disagree.

The immigration rules fuel the border run buses. If there was no incessant requirement for us of us that stay, live and work here then this would be a less frequent occurrence.

Yes, dangerous drivers are a problem but with an easier route to staying here we may not be all forced on a 90 day basis (or sooner) to have to sit with these buffoons in the back of an overcrowded and frankly unsafe mini-bus.

I think what Karen is saying is that it's dangerous here no matter your reason for being on the road, and that if it weren't, the visa run requirement wouldn't be so risky. Makes sense.

Sadly no. The visa run is called such a thing for a reason.

It's a run and done at the fastest speed possible. The more we are constantly made to do these mad "runs" the more that these accidents will happen.

If there were no mad drivers on the road it would make these mad runs no less dangerous.

Because lets face it... The majority (including this one) had accidents without the aid of another <deleted> driver. These guys normally total themselves quite well but the sad thing is they take others with them.

Edited November 6, 2013 by dansan

[tragickingdom]

Foreigners behave like sheep if they are passengers in minivans or buses. They never demand that a driver slows down or file a complaint. I would definitely demand that such a driver would stop and I rather would leave the vehicle, arranging alternative transportation. Sheep however get slaughtered. By the way the problem has nothing to do with Phuket, you'll see the same throughout the country.

[dg1980]

While im sure that there are those who work jobs, own businesses, or are semi-retired, longstay holidays etc, it seems that there are some people who have an irrational desire to stay in Thailand. Wonder what that is...

[Fullstop]

there would be far less minibuses on the road, far less mayhem and far less deaths

I doubt removing minibuses would make much of a dent at all.

I drive the road from Pattaya to Chantaburi fairly often and it is dangerous.

I drive that route every month. It's not dangerous... If you follow the normal driving advice that has been done to death on countless forums, countless times. Never mind. Be a drama queen. It's more fun.

Edited November 6, 2013 by Fullstop

[Hugh Jarse]

Phuket Immigration Superintendent Sanchai Chokkajaykij expressed regret over the accident.

“What happened was really sad. No one wants something like that to happen,” he said.

What a stupid statement. Than why is nobody in this country getting his a## up and do something about road safety measures?

...and road policing, as hardly none exists on those routes.

[DGIE]

I wonder why the reckless driver of the van survived in the accident.