Protests are a test for legitimacy: Forbes

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INTERNATIONAL VIEW
Protests are a test for legitimacy: Forbes
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- As protesters are on the streets and as Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra is besieged by criticism from within her own ranks - including from supporters who lost relatives in the 2010 crackdown, this indicates the fragility in Thailand's parliamentary system, said a Forbes article.

In the article entitled "Thailand’s Political Dysfunction Trumps US Federalist Funk", the Forbes staff said democracies aren't all made equally; the devil lies in the details. Washington's federalist, presidential system has its limitations, some of which were laid bare by the recent shutdown.

Duelling centres of power stood in the path of a freely elected executive who had a mandate to govern. A country was held hostage by a dispute over healthcare that had already been settled by lawmakers, federal courts and, judging by the presidential ballot, the electorate. To critics - in both the democratic and authoritarian camps - the brinksmanship showed deep flaws in the US system of divided governance.

Below is the full report.

In a parliamentary system, such obstruction is rarer. This is its strength. But it runs the risk of making elections the only test for legitimacy, particularly when democratic institutions are weak, as in Thailand, where protesters are back on the streets. The last time that Bangkok was gripped by huge rallies in 2010 the denouement was a bloody military-led crackdown.

Two years earlier, Bangkok's international airport was seized by another protest group in a ruinous victory over an elected administration. This time around, the complaint is that the government, which won a huge victory in 2011, is ramming through a self-serving amnesty law that whitewashes its past wrongdoing. Over 10,000 people rallied Monday in Bangkok, turning up the heat on Yingluck Shinawatra and sending Thai stocks down nearly 3 per cent.

The amnesty bill recently passed the lower house, where Yingluck's governing coalition holds sway. The original bill covered rank-and-file protesters accused of crimes, but was later expanded to grant amnesties to politicians and state officials. More controversial is language inserted to undo court judgements against former premier Thaksin Shinawatra, the exiled billionaire brother of Yingluck. Thaksin was convicted in 2008 of abusing his power, a ruling that he contests. Next the amnesty bill must clear the upper house and be signed into law by the crown.

"All of which appears to show checks on an elected government. But the fact that protesters are on the streets, and that Yingluck is besieged by criticism from within her own ranks - including from supporters who lost relatives in the 2010 crackdown - indicates the fragility in Thailand's parliamentary system. Previous iterations of Thaksin's political party were dissolved by courts so this isn't an idle threat. But it does little to advance democracy building in Thailand."

It's clear that Thaksin and Yingluck can deliver a plurality at the polls. They have done it repeatedly since 2001. Their opponents must accept this fact. But an electoral mandate isn't a right to govern unfettered. Back in 2006, when Thaksin faced mass protests against the sale of his family-owned telecoms company to Singapore's sovereign wealth fund, he pulled the same trick.

He won the election, but Thailand faced a deadlock and the military stepped in. This is a poor substitute for legitimate checks on elected officials. Perhaps the only thing worse than too many democratic checks are no checks at all.


-- The Nation 2013-11-06

[Pib]

In a parliamentary system, such obstruction is rarer. This is its strength. But it runs the risk of making elections the only test for legitimacy, particularly when democratic institutions are weak, as in Thailand...

So, so true.

[4evermaat]

Dissatisfaction of a govt can be measured by the collective reaction of the governed. The funny thing is that there would have been less outrage if Thanskin either served his original sentence or just remained in exile.

There are no riots yet...but who knows what the future holds.

"Second best time to plant a tree is today" sent from note2 TV app

[pattayaorganic]

Thaksin was convicted in 2008 of abusing his power, a ruling that he contests.

So let's see here...Thaksin was accused of abusing power to enrich himself illegally then he fled the country on this conviction and now his sister is trying to ram a bill through parliament that absolves the man of all accusations and then he still contests that he is abusing power? Does anybody else see the irony here???

[Pib]

Thaksin was convicted in 2008 of abusing his power, a ruling that he contests.

So let's see here...Thaksin was accused of abusing power to enrich himself illegally then he fled the country on this conviction and now his sister is trying to ram a bill through parliament that absolves the man of all accusations and then he still contests that he is abusing power? Does anybody else see the irony here???

Don't see any irony at all....just see pure Thai politics (a.k.a., a Shinawatra family business).

[HUAHIN62]

Lets hope the Dems pull the people off the streets after the bill is killed Monday. If they dont or cant we will be in for a bad one as this would mean the protesters want to get rid of the government. This time however there is the red shirt factor. Lets hope commonsense prevail.

[winstonc]

Lets hope the Dems pull the people off the streets after the bill is killed Monday. If they dont or cant we will be in for a bad one as this would mean the protesters want to get rid of the government. This time however there is the red shirt factor. Lets hope commonsense prevail.

fortunatly its not just dems protesting many other groups and even more lay people .....its not just reds and dems sir

[orchidlady]

If he wants to reset the clock...how about going back to when he sold Shin Corp and before he changed the law to benefit the sale. If he paid the full tax due (before he changed the laws to benefit him) and stipulated that money go say towards healthcare and education...I bet that would help with some reconcilliation. That would be one less distortion on his part!

[marcusd]

If this bill is passed I WOULD NOT WNAT to be in Bangkok! The Thai bourse is already down, the central bank governer called on MONDAY for this bill not to be passwed as reported in one of the 2 papers... the flight of foreign funds could bankrupt the country...

But why would SHIN CORP DUO care? With 350 billuion here and a few billion there (that is still BILLIONS of US dollars and BILLIONS of Euros, they dont need to stay. they need AMNESTY so they can travel which they have some issues at present doing to some countries.... AFTER AMNESTY they might be heard sating as they count the money STOLEN form this country...Tahiti looks nice darling....shall we fly there?

[15Peter20]

Well, Suthep has been engaged in his Rachadamnoen Rant for about an hour now and is still going strong. He has thrown down an ultimatum to Yingluck. Drop the amnesty bill by 6pm on Monday or else...

Other things I noticed were a sign with Taksins face on it saying 'Wanted-Dead or Alive', and also that they are showing crowd pictures chiefly of noticeably younger people than at previous yellow or red rallies.

Edited November 6, 2013 by 15Peter20

[Thai at Heart]

It's a test of whether the normal Thai has had enough of the untouchable upper class thumbing their nose at them.

[waza]

"He won the election, but Thailand faced a deadlock and the military stepped in. This is a poor substitute for legitimate checks on elected officials. Perhaps the only thing worse than too many democratic checks are no checks at all."

Insightful comment, as Thaksin removes judicial check and balances and subvert and erodes the rule of law a replacement need to be found to police the political boundaries, or anarchy rules. For Thailand that has traditionally been the role of the military in politics, but increasingly protest groups have been taking the lead.

The Thaksin proxy government receive a mandate to govern in the election, not to rule, that's why the anti amnesty protestors need ton teach them a lesson in humility

Edited November 6, 2013 by waza

[whybother]

Well, Suthep has been engaged in his Rachadamnoen Rant for about an hour now and is still going strong. He has thrown down an ultimatum to Yingluck. Drop the amnesty bill by 6pm on Monday or else...

Other things I noticed were a sign with Taksins face on it saying 'Wanted-Dead or Alive', and also that they are showing crowd pictures chiefly of noticeably younger people than at previous yellow or red rallies.

Can the bill actually be "dropped" at this stage?

[fasteddie]

Thaksin was convicted in 2008 of abusing his power, a ruling that he contests.

So let's see here...Thaksin was accused of abusing power to enrich himself illegally then he fled the country on this conviction and now his sister is trying to ram a bill through parliament that absolves the man of all accusations and then he still contests that he is abusing power? Does anybody else see the irony here???

Not me.

[astanhope]

Well, Suthep has been engaged in his Rachadamnoen Rant for about an hour now and is still going strong. He has thrown down an ultimatum to Yingluck. Drop the amnesty bill by 6pm on Monday or else...

Other things I noticed were a sign with Taksins face on it saying 'Wanted-Dead or Alive', and also that they are showing crowd pictures chiefly of noticeably younger people than at previous yellow or red rallies.

Can the bill actually be "dropped" at this stage?

As a general rule of thumb, bills can usually be "dropped" at any stage prior to being signed into law.

In this case specifically there are a number of procedural paths that can be taken to legitimately kill the bill.

[Publicus]

Lets hope the Dems pull the people off the streets after the bill is killed Monday. If they dont or cant we will be in for a bad one as this would mean the protesters want to get rid of the government. This time however there is the red shirt factor. Lets hope commonsense prevail.

fortunatly its not just dems protesting many other groups and even more lay people .....its not just reds and dems sir

Yes, and I suspect all the diverse groups that consider the government has now unforgivably stepped over the line are strongly motivated to take decisive action to get rid of this government.

Something about the old saying never to let a good crisis go to waste.

A seize the day kind of mood.

I think the people in the streets believe the army is staying out of this one and I'd say they are right.

This one appears at long last to be directly in the hands of the people.

No votes to buy today. There appears to be only people's convictions and the end of their long suffering patience.

[Arkady]

It is not surprising that people take to the streets when you have a political culture in which the majority party feels its electoral victory gives it the right to make laws that legitimise past corruption. A pathetically weak judicial branch and notoriously corrupt police and prosecutors are bad enough but now you have the legislative branch behaving like that and the executive branch pretending it knows nothing about it, while manipulating everything from behind the scenes, while in turn being manipulated by a convicted criminal on the lam.

[AleG]

It is not surprising that people take to the streets when you have a political culture in which the majority party feels its electoral victory gives it the right to make laws that legitimise past corruption. A pathetically weak judicial branch and notoriously corrupt police and prosecutors are bad enough but now you have the legislative branch behaving like that and the executive branch pretending it knows nothing about it, while manipulating everything from behind the scenes, while in turn being manipulated by a convicted criminal on the lam.

Indeed, on top of that the gall of Yingluck in saying that the protesters are the ones tarnishing the international image of Thailand.

[Thai at Heart]

It's fascinating to watch this. No yellows, no reds, maybe only Suthep as a completely dodgy ringmaster as opposed to the cronies of the PAD, the army firmly sitting in it's barracks, saying nothing, even the reds have had their noses put out of joint because they have been shafted, and a very wide range of people getting together, not even necessarily purely to stop Thaksin, but to stop corruption in general.

Finally, finally, something possibly moves in the right direction. I applaus anyone who gets out there this weekend and does something great for the country. Not, to smash the Shinawatras, but to stop this nonsense of absolving guilt for previous crimes, and using blackmail to smooth the path to victory through the courts.

No, no, no. No revisionism again, stop the amnesty. Next step. EVERYONE accused of an offence MUST GO TO COURT. Guilty or not, so be it, but this corruption of the system must stop, and it must be solved by courts.

[waza]

It is not surprising that people take to the streets when you have a political culture in which the majority party feels its electoral victory gives it the right to make laws that legitimise past corruption. A pathetically weak judicial branch and notoriously corrupt police and prosecutors are bad enough but now you have the legislative branch behaving like that and the executive branch pretending it knows nothing about it, while manipulating everything from behind the scenes, while in turn being manipulated by a convicted criminal on the lam.

Its not just past corruption its up to and including the rice scam, 2013.

I have said it from the beginning, "no amnesty for anyone", let justice and the rule of law prevail.

Edited November 8, 2013 by waza

[whybother]

It's fascinating to watch this.  No yellows, no reds, maybe only Suthep as a completely dodgy ringmaster as opposed to the cronies of the PAD, the army firmly sitting in it's barracks, saying nothing, even the reds have had their noses put out of joint because they have been shafted, and a very wide range of people getting together, not even necessarily purely to stop Thaksin, but to stop corruption in general.

 

Finally, finally, something possibly moves in the right direction.  I applaus anyone who gets out there this weekend and does something great for the country.  Not, to smash the Shinawatras, but to stop this nonsense of absolving guilt for previous crimes, and using blackmail to smooth the path to victory through the courts.

 

No, no, no.  No revisionism again, stop the amnesty.  Next step.  EVERYONE accused of an offence MUST GO TO COURT.  Guilty or not, so be it, but this corruption of the system must stop, and it must be solved by courts.  

I wouldn't say they're out there "for corruption in general", but it is a step in the right direction.

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