What would you do?

[norrona]

I lived in the Philippines for 11 years and ran my own multi-million dollar real estate operation selling US properties to foreign investors around SE Asia. I married a Filipina hiso type and was living the lifestyle of the rich and famous until 1988 when I sold $70 million worth of real estate and got swindled out of $3 million in commission by a former Philippine government cabinet minister. My wife ran away with another man and took our two kids, and there I was all alone and 10,000 miles from home without a pot to piss in. I sold a few remaining things in my office to raise enough for a one-way ticket back to the States. I was forty years old at the time, and I returned to my roots with everything I owned in two suitcases and $900 to my name. I went to work in my oppressive father's factory sweeping floors for $7.50 an hour for the next 3 years until I finally cut the cord and went into the funeral home/cemetery industry where I managed properties for 13 years until taking an early retirement and moving to Thailand in 2010.

The moral of the story is that one can start over again, and prosper again over time, if he's willing to humble himself and start at the bottom if necessary. I imagine that this fellow in the OP's story is still trying to hold onto the dream and hasn't quite accepted the fact that he is going to have to downgrade his life in order to survive. The fancy house, cars and business is only "stuff" and can be replaced...and so can the wife! So, my advice would be to let it go and return home...pick yourself up by your bootstraps and get moving before the depression takes you to the edge of a balcony.

the above is a 'mans' way to deal with things....

the last bit of it is a cowards.

Deal with it

Hope he appreciated his Dad giving him such a gracious job within his company and business sweeping floors...or perhaps Daddy saw him for what he was, he must have lost a lot of money from all the previous business/deals to allow one deal let the whole lot tumble over....not even his real estate by the sounds.....just an agent.

you are one disturbed individual......

[cocopops]

Never burn your bridges with your country of birth.

Never buy property in Thailand when renting is usually a much cheaper option.

Never put your life savings into any Thai business.

Never continue to fund a failing Thai business.

Never put your health in last place on the important list.

Never believe that your li'l Thai darling will always be YOUR li'l Thai darling.

Never disregard your common sense instincts.

....and most importantly, when the <deleted> hits the fan....

Never try to end your life by jumping off a tall building.

Never forget that, in the long run, our happiness and prosperity comes from our relationships with others.

Put effort into forging real trust, friendship and love with the people around you and you will never go wrong.

Try to take shortcuts and things will end badly.

You can't buy love with money anywhere in the world.

[fittobethaied]

I lived in the Philippines for 11 years and ran my own multi-million dollar real estate operation selling US properties to foreign investors around SE Asia. I married a Filipina hiso type and was living the lifestyle of the rich and famous until 1988 when I sold $70 million worth of real estate and got swindled out of $3 million in commission by a former Philippine government cabinet minister. My wife ran away with another man and took our two kids, and there I was all alone and 10,000 miles from home without a pot to piss in. I sold a few remaining things in my office to raise enough for a one-way ticket back to the States. I was forty years old at the time, and I returned to my roots with everything I owned in two suitcases and $900 to my name. I went to work in my oppressive father's factory sweeping floors for $7.50 an hour for the next 3 years until I finally cut the cord and went into the funeral home/cemetery industry where I managed properties for 13 years until taking an early retirement and moving to Thailand in 2010.

The moral of the story is that one can start over again, and prosper again over time, if he's willing to humble himself and start at the bottom if necessary. I imagine that this fellow in the OP's story is still trying to hold onto the dream and hasn't quite accepted the fact that he is going to have to downgrade his life in order to survive. The fancy house, cars and business is only "stuff" and can be replaced...and so can the wife! So, my advice would be to let it go and return home...pick yourself up by your bootstraps and get moving before the depression takes you to the edge of a balcony.

the above is a 'mans' way to deal with things....

the last bit of it is a cowards.

Deal with it

Hope he appreciated his Dad giving him such a gracious job within his company and business sweeping floors...or perhaps Daddy saw him for what he was, he must have lost a lot of money from all the previous business/deals to allow one deal let the whole lot tumble over....not even his real estate by the sounds.....just an agent.

Not just any agent Showbags, but one of the best to ever ply his trade in the international marketplace. How many "agents" do you know that can turn $70 million in one year? The problem with overnight success is one doesn't know what to do with all that money, and inevitably it gets invested in a lifestyle of drugs, alcohol and out of control sex. Sin will take you further than you want to go and make you stay longer than you want to stay. When I lost it all I turned my life over to Jesus Christ, and He was the one who set my feet back on the right path and restored unto me all that the devil had stolen from me. And my Daddy couldn't see me for what I was because he was so jealous of my success and so consumed by his hatred for God that all he knew to do was suppress me and oppress me. The devil tried to use him to destroy me, but when I left his business he went broke and one year later walked into his garage one evening and hung himself. Such is the end for the man who mocks God and tries to make ruin of those that belong to HIM.

So, you see Showbags...you should have kept your comments on topic 'cause you have no idea what you're talking about. Instead of slamming me for no reason at all, why don't you put your thinking cap on and come up with some constructive comments to help the OP's friend. You sound like the bitter old man that was my father...one who loves to tear down instead of build up!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited November 7, 2013 by fittobethaied

[norrona]

I lived in the Philippines for 11 years and ran my own multi-million dollar real estate operation selling US properties to foreign investors around SE Asia. I married a Filipina hiso type and was living the lifestyle of the rich and famous until 1988 when I sold $70 million worth of real estate and got swindled out of $3 million in commission by a former Philippine government cabinet minister. My wife ran away with another man and took our two kids, and there I was all alone and 10,000 miles from home without a pot to piss in. I sold a few remaining things in my office to raise enough for a one-way ticket back to the States. I was forty years old at the time, and I returned to my roots with everything I owned in two suitcases and $900 to my name. I went to work in my oppressive father's factory sweeping floors for $7.50 an hour for the next 3 years until I finally cut the cord and went into the funeral home/cemetery industry where I managed properties for 13 years until taking an early retirement and moving to Thailand in 2010.

The moral of the story is that one can start over again, and prosper again over time, if he's willing to humble himself and start at the bottom if necessary. I imagine that this fellow in the OP's story is still trying to hold onto the dream and hasn't quite accepted the fact that he is going to have to downgrade his life in order to survive. The fancy house, cars and business is only "stuff" and can be replaced...and so can the wife! So, my advice would be to let it go and return home...pick yourself up by your bootstraps and get moving before the depression takes you to the edge of a balcony.

the above is a 'mans' way to deal with things....

the last bit of it is a cowards.

Deal with it

Hope he appreciated his Dad giving him such a gracious job within his company and business sweeping floors...or perhaps Daddy saw him for what he was, he must have lost a lot of money from all the previous business/deals to allow one deal let the whole lot tumble over....not even his real estate by the sounds.....just an agent.

Not just any agent Showbags, but one of the best to ever ply his trade in the international marketplace. How many "agents" do you know that can turn $70 million in one year? The problem with overnight success is one doesn't know what to do with all that money, and inevitably it gets invested in a lifestyle of drugs, alcohol and out of control sex. Sin will take you further than you want to go and make you stay longer than you want to stay. When I lost it all I turned my life over to Jesus Christ, and He was the one who set my feet back on the right path and restored unto me all that the devil had stolen from me. And my Daddy couldn't see me for what I was because he was so jealous of my success and so consumed by his hatred for God that all he knew to do was suppress me and oppress me. The devil tried to use him to destroy me, but when I left his business he went broke and one year later walked into his garage one evening and hung himself. Such is the end for the man who mocks God and tries to make ruin of those that belong to HIM.

So, you see Showbags...you should have kept your comments on topic 'cause you have no idea what you're talking about. Instead of slamming me for no reason at all, why don't you put your thinking cap on and come up with some constructive comments to help the OP's friend. You sound like the bitter old man that was my father...one who loves to tear down instead of build up!!!!!!!!!!!!

Amen to that

[robblok]

I lived in the Philippines for 11 years and ran my own multi-million dollar real estate operation selling US properties to foreign investors around SE Asia. I married a Filipina hiso type and was living the lifestyle of the rich and famous until 1988 when I sold $70 million worth of real estate and got swindled out of $3 million in commission by a former Philippine government cabinet minister. My wife ran away with another man and took our two kids, and there I was all alone and 10,000 miles from home without a pot to piss in. I sold a few remaining things in my office to raise enough for a one-way ticket back to the States. I was forty years old at the time, and I returned to my roots with everything I owned in two suitcases and $900 to my name. I went to work in my oppressive father's factory sweeping floors for $7.50 an hour for the next 3 years until I finally cut the cord and went into the funeral home/cemetery industry where I managed properties for 13 years until taking an early retirement and moving to Thailand in 2010.

The moral of the story is that one can start over again, and prosper again over time, if he's willing to humble himself and start at the bottom if necessary. I imagine that this fellow in the OP's story is still trying to hold onto the dream and hasn't quite accepted the fact that he is going to have to downgrade his life in order to survive. The fancy house, cars and business is only "stuff" and can be replaced...and so can the wife! So, my advice would be to let it go and return home...pick yourself up by your bootstraps and get moving before the depression takes you to the edge of a balcony.

the above is a 'mans' way to deal with things....

the last bit of it is a cowards.

Deal with it

Coward or not if you have nobody then suicide is not a cowards thing but just an other choice in my book. Its not something i would easily choose but why live on if there is nothing else to live for ? Suicide is only a bad thing if you hurt people with it.. hard to do if your alone.

got nothing else to live for??? you will have exactly the same as what you came into the world with....

if you can walk-talk and even get half a semi on then you've got more than a lot of people out there.....

I don't feel sorry for those that take suicide as an option when they are feeling hard done by.... go to any hospital in this world where patients are waiting to meet their maker for whatever terminal illness they have and spend time with those poor people, then walk out of there and have the <deleted> to say you can't do it anymore and want to end your life!

Perhaps that's what people who take that option need... a near death experience!

If they have mental problems that makes them want to do themselves in then fair enough.... but an able bodied person who has their health....sorry that's just selfish!

signed, one of many commuters who feel nothing for the person that's thrown themselves under a train and caused thousands of people hold ups and delays!

Cheers

You got your opinion I got mine, if I ever decide I am done with this life its my choice to end it. Nobody should be able to stop me of course one has to consider if there are loved ones, because it would hurt them for sure.

I just don't think like you guess what I am pro euthanasia and abortus too. I feel everyone has the right to decide what happens with them and this is just an other choice.

I am enjoying life at the fullest but one never knows what happens so this is always an option good thing I am not a religious fanatic that would feel bad about this.

But understand one thing I a not telling people to end it, that is their choice, i just feel the option is always open for me would I want this. I certainly don't want it now or plan for it.

[norrona]

euthanasia would be to end the life of someone who is suffering.... I have no problem with that

abortion is a life choice... I have no problem with that either

suicide because you are feeling a bit hard done by and can't be arsed to give it a go and sort your life out....still for cowards!

no religion my end either....just had the experience of people and loved ones saying they don't want to die and would give anything for a bit more time...

An old but good film to watch that puts a lot of things into perspective is 'it's a wonderful life'

[benalibina]

And i thought that intention of thread was to give advice to OP's acquintance. Now its becoming a topic about abortion, duicide and euthanasia ! Funny lot u !

[jackr]

Get him to love back up to his misses and that he would like to sell up and move to Phuket to build a nice property overlooking Surin Beach... get hands on money when time is right and walk.

[wprime]

I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that all of your friend's problems are due to his business failing. Reduced income leads to unhappiness, which leads to discontent in surroundings, relationship problems, etc. Tell him to accept responsibility for his business failing, he might believe it failed on its own but somewhere, sometime, he failed to plan, failed to innovate, or something that led to its decline, then work on building it back up. Once he's done that everything else should fall into place.

[Ulic]

Sell the house. It is only worth what someone will pay not what you put into it.

Head home and onto social assistance. Re-group from there. No use dwelling

on past mistakes and bad luck. We have all had both. Such is life.

You learn more from your failures than success. Move on as best you can.

No use staying here, maybe he can return one day once the situation improves.

That is if he wants to.

[kcore]

I'd go home, generally you can survive in a western world country without any money but you can't in Thailand !

Not me. I find a new girl.

[Skint]

When the ball has burst, pack yer bags and leave reinvent yourself and do it better the next time.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[slipperylobster]

A good reason not to put all both eggs in the Thai Basket. You might be the smartest, trusting person in the world, but remember to look out for yourself. Avoid compulsions to withdraw your entire retirement nestegg and move it all here. Also, do yourself another favor, buy the smaller house and cheaper car for your first layover. Better to rent for a few years before making that leap. Take one half of your "entertainment allowance" and put that in a bank bank in the homeland (for an emergency return). Never mind all the hype about stashing all your savings in a bank here for a retirement visa.... go ahead and fly out a few times a year, just for perspective and the fun of it. Make that a happy habit. Call it a business trip or whatever.....but set up a pattern of escape. That way, it will be easier to leave it you ever have to. Leave your options open. There is a big retirement world out there. There are countries with no Sin Sot..and places where you still look wealthy without the new Camry and huge home.

[MAJIC]

depends how old he is, does he have a pension?

I dont know specifically but I would say around 60, no company pension, would get state pension later.

No formal education or degree etc so teaching is out.

If it's Financial help he needs,and just exceeds 60,(assuming he is from the UK)then he can go home and claim PENSION CREDITS (subject to the latest Government Legislation).which will have a knock on effect to other benefits. Look at the Dept of Works and Pension web site. If he is a UK Citizen he has a right to help in times of need,even though he may not be old enough for Pension Credits.

Look at DWP website UK and see what the entitlements are,the information is all there,do your searches.Nobody starves in the UK,or needs to be in dire straights unless they abuse the system (which is another story)

[BookMan]

Tough business for the OP's coffee shop acquaintance.

Failure within relationships, business, health is something that will happen to most within their lifetime at some point, or several points.

The issue is compounded for your coffee shop acquaintance with the isolation he has being in a foreign country.

Either he sells the house at a bargain rate and lives off that, for possibly only a short while, or he moves back to his home country.

At least in his home country he would have some system of backup

[MAJIC]

I should would reiterate also that home ties should NEVER be severed under any circumstances/

Moving and living in another country can always be precarious, however enticing it might seem at the time, but even though I work full-time

in Anti-aging Medicine (AAM), the only certain thing about life, is that one day we will die! How and when we do is what matters! I would advise your friend to move back to the safety net of his home country. It seems that his Thai dream has passed its sell-by date ! A story which is alas, all too common!

It seems that his Thai dream has passed it's sell-by date ! A story which is alas, all too common!

Yes! most definately, but the sleepwalkers keep coming! like lemmings throwing themselves off the first cliff.

[Maestro]

Removed a troll post.

[MAJIC]

This advice does not apply to the unfortunate person who finds themselves in this situation, I have seen it countless times since I have been associated with Thaialnd, which is thirty years now.

Advice, to anyone setting up a business or looking at acquiring assets. Get it right from the start!! Do not put assets in the name of girfriend or wife. Set up a a company with A shares and B shares. The Thai owns the A shares and the Farang owns the B shares. The B shares have nearly all the voting rights and dividend rights. The A shares have nothing, but on paper own the majority stake in the business thereby making the structure legally compliant. Simples as the Meerkats would say!! For those farangs owning property, put it in the name of a company too. Also write yourself a lease to yourself from the company for a term of 30yrs+30 yrs+30 yrs. And Register it with the land dept. This gives an extra layer of protection. All perfecitly legal.

Beauty is skin deep, your assets have to be protected to last (both) of you a lifetime. Get it right from the beginning and avoid the porblems later down the line!!!!

30+30+30 Years is as at much use as: "but on paper own the majority stake in the business thereby making the structure legally compliant."

You can only own 49% of your own Company in Thailand. Anyone who says different is using a Lawyer to create an expensive myth!

[geronimo]

Carry on because life is full of strange events and can turn for the good just as easily as bad.

[jacko45k]

depends how old he is, does he have a pension?

I dont know specifically but I would say around 60, no company pension, would get state pension later.

No formal education or degree etc so teaching is out.

He made some poor decisions early on.

I have always felt Thailand is a place to retire to, bringing sufficient funds.

And once here managing those funds cautiously.

He was brave enough to up sticks once and move here, he may have to bite the bullet and go back.

[MAJIC]

I'm not trolling I'm saying this honesty... Tell the guy to stop whining and get off his ass and do something about it. So ur dream life fell apart, welcome to the real world, shit happens. Fix it. Stay positive and figure it out. This could happen anywhere. Even in ur home country. The world is what u make it. He should have prepared but he didn't. So what. Who has it easy anyways?? Give him encouragement, be tough. Stop fuc_king crying. Use ur brain and get back on the horse, and stop blaming everything and everyone else. Figure it out pussy. That's what I would have said.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

"Figure it out pussy. That's what I would have said"

Yea man! everybody is a hero,just like you eh!.................not

[SiamKitt]

For some of us over here pride can get in the way of any rational actions..how many of us..if in a similar situation to our man here would actually have the will to buy that single flight ticket back to the West..?

I'm talking when you know the money's dwindling, when you know you're gonna have to leave your wife, dog/cat, pick-up, & the house..must be bloody hard.

I have always stayed in the L.O.S. for 9mths each year, then work long hours for 3mths in the UK..this enables me to keep my N.I.stamp topped-up. After having a bad car-smash 3 yrs ago at Pak Chong, & ended up being flown back to the UK for extensive treatment by the NHS to save my leg..that 1st visit to the hospital, & submitting my N.I. number..then 11mths & 4 operations all followed without any fuss or questions. This really hit home how important it is to those of us not having mega-bucks to not burn all your bridges within your country of origin.

This spell of treatment & recouperation in the UK also hit home that I'm not getting any younger, & not to kid myself that 5-10yrs from now I may be back in Blighty, possibly due to some ailment, & living in my little terraced house with photos & memories of those Golden years spent in the Orient.

Hope I made some sense here..? Cheers now..S.K.

[SunSeek01]

I know a good guy who had quite alot of stuff in TH, a couple houses I think, lots of bikes and things. He has gone back I think 2 times (around age 60) before his SS kicked in at 62. Second time was Walmart! Now he's back and comfortable. She stayed in TH the whole time.

[MAJIC]

I lived in the Philippines for 11 years and ran my own multi-million dollar real estate operation selling US properties to foreign investors around SE Asia. I married a Filipina hiso type and was living the lifestyle of the rich and famous until 1988 when I sold $70 million worth of real estate and got swindled out of $3 million in commission by a former Philippine government cabinet minister. My wife ran away with another man and took our two kids, and there I was all alone and 10,000 miles from home without a pot to piss in. I sold a few remaining things in my office to raise enough for a one-way ticket back to the States. I was forty years old at the time, and I returned to my roots with everything I owned in two suitcases and $900 to my name. I went to work in my oppressive father's factory sweeping floors for $7.50 an hour for the next 3 years until I finally cut the cord and went into the funeral home/cemetery industry where I managed properties for 13 years until taking an early retirement and moving to Thailand in 2010.

The moral of the story is that one can start over again, and prosper again over time, if he's willing to humble himself and start at the bottom if necessary. I imagine that this fellow in the OP's story is still trying to hold onto the dream and hasn't quite accepted the fact that he is going to have to downgrade his life in order to survive. The fancy house, cars and business is only "stuff" and can be replaced...and so can the wife! So, my advice would be to let it go and return home...pick yourself up by your bootstraps and get moving before the depression takes you to the edge of a balcony.

the above is a 'mans' way to deal with things....

the last bit of it is a cowards.

Deal with it

Coward or not if you have nobody then suicide is not a cowards thing but just an other choice in my book. Its not something i would easily choose but why live on if there is nothing else to live for ? Suicide is only a bad thing if you hurt people with it.. hard to do if your alone.

got nothing else to live for??? you will have exactly the same as what you came into the world with....

if you can walk-talk and even get half a semi on then you've got more than a lot of people out there.....

I don't feel sorry for those that take suicide as an option when they are feeling hard done by.... go to any hospital in this world where patients are waiting to meet their maker for whatever terminal illness they have and spend time with those poor people, then walk out of there and have the <deleted> to say you can't do it anymore and want to end your life!

Perhaps that's what people who take that option need... a near death experience!

If they have mental problems that makes them want to do themselves in then fair enough.... but an able bodied person who has their health....sorry that's just selfish!

signed, one of many commuters who feel nothing for the person that's thrown themselves under a train and caused thousands of people hold ups and delays!

Cheers

So! they held some boring selfish commuters up for a while,who do the same journey everyday,big deal,it may have given them something else to think about,other than their own selfish crap! who kid themselves they are living,shuffling documents around,creaming off commissions,from other peoples efforts, F_cuk I think I would throw myself under a train too!

[MAJIC]

I lived in the Philippines for 11 years and ran my own multi-million dollar real estate operation selling US properties to foreign investors around SE Asia. I married a Filipina hiso type and was living the lifestyle of the rich and famous until 1988 when I sold $70 million worth of real estate and got swindled out of $3 million in commission by a former Philippine government cabinet minister. My wife ran away with another man and took our two kids, and there I was all alone and 10,000 miles from home without a pot to piss in. I sold a few remaining things in my office to raise enough for a one-way ticket back to the States. I was forty years old at the time, and I returned to my roots with everything I owned in two suitcases and $900 to my name. I went to work in my oppressive father's factory sweeping floors for $7.50 an hour for the next 3 years until I finally cut the cord and went into the funeral home/cemetery industry where I managed properties for 13 years until taking an early retirement and moving to Thailand in 2010.

The moral of the story is that one can start over again, and prosper again over time, if he's willing to humble himself and start at the bottom if necessary. I imagine that this fellow in the OP's story is still trying to hold onto the dream and hasn't quite accepted the fact that he is going to have to downgrade his life in order to survive. The fancy house, cars and business is only "stuff" and can be replaced...and so can the wife! So, my advice would be to let it go and return home...pick yourself up by your bootstraps and get moving before the depression takes you to the edge of a balcony.

the above is a 'mans' way to deal with things....

the last bit of it is a cowards.

Deal with it

Hope he appreciated his Dad giving him such a gracious job within his company and business sweeping floors...or perhaps Daddy saw him for what he was, he must have lost a lot of money from all the previous business/deals to allow one deal let the whole lot tumble over....not even his real estate by the sounds.....just an agent.

Not just any agent Showbags, but one of the best to ever ply his trade in the international marketplace. How many "agents" do you know that can turn $70 million in one year? The problem with overnight success is one doesn't know what to do with all that money, and inevitably it gets invested in a lifestyle of drugs, alcohol and out of control sex. Sin will take you further than you want to go and make you stay longer than you want to stay. When I lost it all I turned my life over to Jesus Christ, and He was the one who set my feet back on the right path and restored unto me all that the devil had stolen from me. And my Daddy couldn't see me for what I was because he was so jealous of my success and so consumed by his hatred for God that all he knew to do was suppress me and oppress me. The devil tried to use him to destroy me, but when I left his business he went broke and one year later walked into his garage one evening and hung himself. Such is the end for the man who mocks God and tries to make ruin of those that belong to HIM.

So, you see Showbags...you should have kept your comments on topic 'cause you have no idea what you're talking about. Instead of slamming me for no reason at all, why don't you put your thinking cap on and come up with some constructive comments to help the OP's friend. You sound like the bitter old man that was my father...one who loves to tear down instead of build up!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm out of here the JC Halleluya brigade have hit town,night all!

[LawrenceN]

I have no advice for him. He's screwed (if he's telling the truth). My advice for you is don't get scammed by your "friend." It happens.

[sfbandung]

Not happy in Thailand? Time to go home. There are already too many people here who don't like it but insist that Thailand must change to suit them. Ain't gonna happen.

It is not advice for this fellow but as has been said many times don't cut ties with your "home" country. We have the house in Thailand and a place in Oz. It is understood that the Thai house is hers and the Oz one mine if it all goes tits up.

Write off every cent you invest in Thailand as you do it. This is wise financial advice but also makes it easier to go if or when the time comes.

[cbluck58]

He needs to get his head around the prospect of returning to his home country.

Thailand is no place to be broke for sure........there is no sympathy here and no infrastructure in place to cater for poor people except family .

It is a sad story for sure but the plain fact is he has to call it quits and get on a plane , and the sooner the better.

Very sorry for the guy....

[Jasun]

Thailand is a great place if you only have a little bit of money, but one of the worst if you have none. He's better off getting what he can out of the relationship then heading home. He could always come back in a few years once he's entitled to a pension.

[cbluck58]

I wouldn't have bought a home for someone else (outright).

My mrs has a 25 year home loan, if we part not my problem.

The first rule for people who only have savings, don't spend the savings on something foolish.

(Like a house and business for someone else)

It can't happen to everyone, only someone fairly foolish.

His options, go home or go Pattaya balcony.

What a smug self-satisfied <deleted> you must be .