Push for amnesty has ended: PM Yingluck

[wedders]

 

You may well be right, but I wasn't referring to individuals. I stand by my comment that "the other side" is no less corrupt and is not on the side of the ordinary people.

 

 

If that is the case then why are the ones you say are just as corrupt in there fighting against a bill which would forgive any corruption ?

In this instance because it was an ill-judged move, doomed to failure, and the politically astute realised it was a lose-lose situation for the party in power from the outset. Even if some stood to gain from amnesty themselves, by fighting the bill the opposition has achieved the appearance of honest dealing. And they have obviously made major gains politically from the government's bumbling incompetence.

As ever it's all about political expediency.

[buzz]

I was talking to a friend last nite and he said:

"So far the protesters have been peaceful which is good !

Imagine if a very rich, nasty type of person who had a bone to pick with the current PM & gov't, paid some overseas mugs to come in and start shooting live amo at the police to escalate the situation using the current peaceful protesters as cover ? "

I presume the police wouldn't do anything eh >>>

(maybe rubber bullets and tear gas to protect themselves, or just tell the mugs not to fire on them anymore and go home ?)

It could happen, but probably wouldn't ...........

Edited November 8, 2013 by buzz

[ggold]

She is piss weak. Should have sent the tanks in. That's what her brother would have done.

Then she could stand with Abhisit in court for premeditated murder! which obviously would defeat the purpose of charging Abhisit with these crimes. I wonder is Chalerm still going to present his 2 versions of an amnesty bill?

He is keeping rather quiet for now!

[Baerboxer]

How can Yingluck be so devious and try and con the protesters into going home whilst the bill to whitewash her brother's crimes is still very much live.

Is she really this dishonest or does she simple say what she is told to say, without having a clue what it means.

And this person is officially the Prime Minister and Defense Minister of Thailand and wants a temporary seat on the UNSC ?

I hope the protesters are not gullible enough to believe yet another outright Shin lie and stick it out.

How can anyone trust anything this clan and its regime of muppets says.

[backtonormal]

A war of chess is underway. The decent people of Thailand have won the first battle. PTP will have other battles already well planned. The ultimate goal is to allow Thaksin back into Thailand as a free man and to reclaim his corrupt billions of baht along with an ongoing steady stream of corrupt money. He doesn't give one iota about the average decent law abiding Thai.

Many of my Thai friends talk openly about Thaksin's ultimate desire to overthrow the Monarchy and install himself as President of a Thai Republic. They also talk that Thaksin's elimination (read execution) would be a good/best outcome for Thailand. Think of other despots (Robert Mugabe, Kim Jongil, Omar Hassan Al-Bashir, Muammar Al-Qaddafu, Hosni Mubarak) and there can be no argument that Thaksin is a despot.

The outpouring of resistance against these so-called amnesty bills by ordinary decent Thais of all political persuasions is the only weapon they have and it is a mighty weapon. Public protest has worked in the past in other countries. Decent Thais want to be rid of Thaksin and corruption.

The war has just begun.

What a crock of s h 1 t. So little you know. No facts in your story buts what new. If you are fantazising try this. Thaksin will be back and he will be invited to fill the the most prestigous position available to a Thai citizen (of course apart from the monarchy). He will not need an amnesty but some in Thailand do still need amnesty for the decisions they took in 2010

[scorecard]

How can Yingluck be so devious and try and con the protesters into going home whilst the bill to whitewash her brother's crimes is still very much live.

Is she really this dishonest or does she simple say what she is told to say, without having a clue what it means.

And this person is officially the Prime Minister and Defense Minister of Thailand and wants a temporary seat on the UNSC ?

I hope the protesters are not gullible enough to believe yet another outright Shin lie and stick it out.

How can anyone trust anything this clan and its regime of muppets says.

Naar,,, it's those bad advice people again, and no doubt her nephew will confirm it.

You don't believe that? Well maybe she's just made an honest mistake, so it's really all OK. Will you accept that?

[Ricardo]

She is piss weak. Should have sent the tanks in. That's what her brother would have done.

Then she could stand with Abhisit in court for premeditated murder! which obviously would defeat the purpose of charging Abhisit with these crimes. I wonder is Chalerm still going to present his 2 versions of an amnesty bill?

He is keeping rather quiet for now! alt=whistling.gif width=19 height=18>

Chalerm has a headache, and also an itchy line across his neck, one suspects !

[khunken]

A war of chess is underway. The decent people of Thailand have won the first battle. PTP will have other battles already well planned. The ultimate goal is to allow Thaksin back into Thailand as a free man and to reclaim his corrupt billions of baht along with an ongoing steady stream of corrupt money. He doesn't give one iota about the average decent law abiding Thai.

Many of my Thai friends talk openly about Thaksin's ultimate desire to overthrow the Monarchy and install himself as President of a Thai Republic. They also talk that Thaksin's elimination (read execution) would be a good/best outcome for Thailand. Think of other despots (Robert Mugabe, Kim Jongil, Omar Hassan Al-Bashir, Muammar Al-Qaddafu, Hosni Mubarak) and there can be no argument that Thaksin is a despot.

The outpouring of resistance against these so-called amnesty bills by ordinary decent Thais of all political persuasions is the only weapon they have and it is a mighty weapon. Public protest has worked in the past in other countries. Decent Thais want to be rid of Thaksin and corruption.

The war has just begun.

What a crock of s h 1 t. So little you know. No facts in your story buts what new. If you are fantazising try this. Thaksin will be back and he will be invited to fill the the most prestigous position available to a Thai citizen (of course apart from the monarchy). He will not need an amnesty but some in Thailand do still need amnesty for the decisions they took in 2010

So you think its clever to answer what you describe as a crock with another crock of manure.

lujanit's first & last paragraphs are totally correct. The second is OTT.

Thaksin doesn't believe in democracy - he has said as much over the years - and his current party has no internal democratic credentials. He makes the decisions about policy, funding, appointments (both within the party & key positions in organisations like the police. Too often he appoints clan members and in all cases pays no attention to competence - just loyalty.

Turning to Yingluck who doesn't make decisions - only tries to talk her way out of problems, often unsuccessfully. She is a clan member who puts it way ahead of anything else, including the country. Her talk about the amnesty push being over is nothing more than an effort (failing) to get people to stop protesting. No member of the Shin clan is trustworthy.

[SICHONSTEVE]

A war of chess is underway. The decent people of Thailand have won the first battle. PTP will have other battles already well planned. The ultimate goal is to allow Thaksin back into Thailand as a free man and to reclaim his corrupt billions of baht along with an ongoing steady stream of corrupt money. He doesn't give one iota about the average decent law abiding Thai.

Many of my Thai friends talk openly about Thaksin's ultimate desire to overthrow the Monarchy and install himself as President of a Thai Republic. They also talk that Thaksin's elimination (read execution) would be a good/best outcome for Thailand. Think of other despots (Robert Mugabe, Kim Jongil, Omar Hassan Al-Bashir, Muammar Al-Qaddafu, Hosni Mubarak) and there can be no argument that Thaksin is a despot.

The outpouring of resistance against these so-called amnesty bills by ordinary decent Thais of all political persuasions is the only weapon they have and it is a mighty weapon. Public protest has worked in the past in other countries. Decent Thais want to be rid of Thaksin and corruption.

The war has just begun.

I don't think that the war has just begun, I think that it has been WON!!!

Thaksin said that he didn't know how to spell the word LOSE well I think that he should learn this now.

What has happened is exactly what I predicted would happen about 1 week ago - I knew that he had blown his best and ONLY chance once the demonstrations escalated to such an extent. What convinced me was the calibre of people joining the ranks ie: virtually all of the university rectors in Thailand, business leaders, nationalists, red shirts, doctors and nurses, the young, the old, commerce workers plus the 77 or so groups of demonstrators and the Democrat party!!!

It seems a little unfair with everyone banging the drum in disgust over their mistaken belief that they have the right to trample over everyone just because they hold power, but they have learnt the hard way and flunked the test with no retake available to them!!!

Perhaps they have disillusioned so many of their own supporters that they will find it hard to motivate them to vote for them come the next election (which may not be too far off) but knowing their stupidity and gullibility at believing everything they hear, I'm not holding my breath on this!!

[SICHONSTEVE]

A war of chess is underway. The decent people of Thailand have won the first battle. PTP will have other battles already well planned. The ultimate goal is to allow Thaksin back into Thailand as a free man and to reclaim his corrupt billions of baht along with an ongoing steady stream of corrupt money. He doesn't give one iota about the average decent law abiding Thai.

Many of my Thai friends talk openly about Thaksin's ultimate desire to overthrow the Monarchy and install himself as President of a Thai Republic. They also talk that Thaksin's elimination (read execution) would be a good/best outcome for Thailand. Think of other despots (Robert Mugabe, Kim Jongil, Omar Hassan Al-Bashir, Muammar Al-Qaddafu, Hosni Mubarak) and there can be no argument that Thaksin is a despot.

The outpouring of resistance against these so-called amnesty bills by ordinary decent Thais of all political persuasions is the only weapon they have and it is a mighty weapon. Public protest has worked in the past in other countries. Decent Thais want to be rid of Thaksin and corruption.

The war has just begun.

What a crock of s h 1 t. So little you know. No facts in your story buts what new. If you are fantazising try this. Thaksin will be back and he will be invited to fill the the most prestigous position available to a Thai citizen (of course apart from the monarchy). He will not need an amnesty but some in Thailand do still need amnesty for the decisions they took in 2010

So you think its clever to answer what you describe as a crock with another crock of manure.

lujanit's first & last paragraphs are totally correct. The second is OTT.

Thaksin doesn't believe in democracy - he has said as much over the years - and his current party has no internal democratic credentials. He makes the decisions about policy, funding, appointments (both within the party & key positions in organisations like the police. Too often he appoints clan members and in all cases pays no attention to competence - just loyalty.

Turning to Yingluck who doesn't make decisions - only tries to talk her way out of problems, often unsuccessfully. She is a clan member who puts it way ahead of anything else, including the country. Her talk about the amnesty push being over is nothing more than an effort (failing) to get people to stop protesting. No member of the Shin clan is trustworthy.

Sums it up perfectly!!!

[kawaiimomo]

Well Kurnell

What a brainless statement I gather you are a type of communist do you not see the possibility of a revolution or a military take over if this went through.

Thank God you are not able to be a dictator.

I think it was a joke. However, arguably funny but not realist because everybody knows the army will only follow orders from the elites and will take over only when/to benefiting them.

[siampolee]

Meanwhile, Air Force commander-in-chief ACM Prajin Jantong yesterday commented that the government's retreat over the amnesty bill appeared to have reduced the political temperature. He suggested that a law should be written in a way that respects the legal principle and the public sentiment.

Interesting comment there.It is a rarity to actually hear any comment from the top brass in the R.T.A.F.

Has ''advice'' perhaps been offered from other ''quarters,'' has it had an effect current matters?

Perhaps that 'advice if it was offered coupled with the response from the Thai people concerning this amnesty bill may have made an impact on those involved in the P.T.P.political arena both inside and outside of Thailand.?

it is not often we see or hear any comment from the R.T.A.F. top brass

[kawaiimomo]

I don't understand the hate towards Thaksin and Phuea Thai from the foreigner in TV. Or those who won't agree his conviction was politically motivated, if you can't see that you either are blind or don't want to see. The established elites expected this new rich man from a poor background who become PM to continue with the previous policies which benefit the elites. He pissed many people by spending public money to benefit the poorer classes (30 baht doctor visit, loans for farmer, etc). Don't get me wrong, he did many wrong things too, like the war on drugs, corruption etc but the only reason why he was accused AND convicted was because of the very powerful people pissed with his ruling. Are you going to tell me this man got nailed because he got money from corruption? How many in high positions (and lower too) don't do it? And everyone gets away with it (specially when you have money like it was the case). This is a proof of 2 things: This is not a democracy (not even the facade we call democracy in the west) and even the judicial system is controlled by such elite.

PT latest version of the amnesty law is wrong, they messed it. Or maybe not that much. Everyone should agree on no amnesty for serious crimes, and amnesty for people who were just demonstrating. Can we be able to tell if the people being accused of those crimes are actually the people who committed them or if this was a setup while the army or the government appointed by finger pointing were in power? Same regarding Thaksin trial and conviction... Since he pissed off so many powerful people (who can, literally, control de court decision) how can we know if it was a real conviction or a setup. Everyone corrupt convicted or everyone corrupt free.

Don't forget all the yellow shirts have been freed or granted bail while the Thaksin supporters are denied, in many cases for similar charges. The courts are manipulated to keep them inside even when their party is in power and did indeed try to free some of them, this can give you an idea of the degree of power those elites have in this country.

They say "No amnesty", I say "Jail for all or amnesty for all".

[rubl]

Push for Amnesty ended

Meanwhile in a universe near you we have a Senate Speaker desperately trying to get the Senate debat started today instead of Monday as planned a week ago. no indication the government involved, to get rid of protests. Even the golf caddy's legal representative posted 'no crackdown'

[rubl]

Don't forget that this government urgently helped the UDD leaders to get out on bail and made some show of paying bail for some others. Following interest wained. That gives you an idea of the role of the red-shirt cannon fodder.

As for Thaksin the Innocent, please don't get me start, especially in a thread which concerns a push which ended

I don't understand the hate towards Thaksin and Phuea Thai from the foreigner in TV. Or those who won't agree his conviction was politically motivated, if you can't see that you either are blind or don't want to see. The established elites expected this new rich man from a poor background who become PM to continue with the previous policies which benefit the elites. He pissed many people by spending public money to benefit the poorer classes (30 baht doctor visit, loans for farmer, etc). Don't get me wrong, he did many wrong things too, like the war on drugs, corruption etc but the only reason why he was accused AND convicted was because of the very powerful people pissed with his ruling. Are you going to tell me this man got nailed because he got money from corruption? How many in high positions (and lower too) don't do it? And everyone gets away with it (specially when you have money like it was the case). This is a proof of 2 things: This is not a democracy (not even the facade we call democracy in the west) and even the judicial system is controlled by such elite.

PT latest version of the amnesty law is wrong, they messed it. Or maybe not that much. Everyone should agree on no amnesty for serious crimes, and amnesty for people who were just demonstrating. Can we be able to tell if the people being accused of those crimes are actually the people who committed them or if this was a setup while the army or the government appointed by finger pointing were in power? Same regarding Thaksin trial and conviction... Since he pissed off so many powerful people (who can, literally, control de court decision) how can we know if it was a real conviction or a setup. Everyone corrupt convicted or everyone corrupt free.

Don't forget all the yellow shirts have been freed or granted bail while the Thaksin supporters are denied, in many cases for similar charges. The courts are manipulated to keep them inside even when their party is in power and did indeed try to free some of them, this can give you an idea of the degree of power those elites have in this country.

They say "No amnesty", I say "Jail for all or amnesty for all".

Edited November 8, 2013 by rubl

[hellodolly]

The amnesty bills have been redrawn, except the one to be debated in the Senate today!!

Thank you, Thai people, for not believing in the Shinawattras lies this time around!!

Keep protesting, and you can bring this bunch of criminals down.

Power to the real people of Thailand!!

I think the amnesty bills have been withdrawn. They have not redrawn them (yet).

No - the one submitted to the Senate has not been withdrawn.

The statement is misleading in the extreme.

Exactly.

Yesterday it was questionable today we know for a fact they have not lost the battle yet. I am of the belief that they have changed their minds now and don't want to win the battle as they see that it is no longer one man pulling the strings against them it is all of Thailand telling them that their actions are unacceptable. The blinders have slipped off and they are getting a look at how Thailand really feels about them.

I see they have a back up plan they are calling for the dissolving of the Democratic party. I don't know what others think of that idea but at this time in there mismanagement it would be like putting a sign on their back saying kick me.

All they are doing is telling Thailand we want no opposition. Do as we say. More and more people are seeing them for who they really are.

The word scum comes to my mind for some reason.

Here we are with a corrupt government that has a minister of finance who publicly says it is OK to lie if it makes people happy trying to borrow 2.2 trillion baht and make sure they have no opposition to what they do with it.

[SICHONSTEVE]

The amnesty bills have been redrawn, except the one to be debated in the Senate today!!

Thank you, Thai people, for not believing in the Shinawattras lies this time around!!

Keep protesting, and you can bring this bunch of criminals down.

Power to the real people of Thailand!!

I think the amnesty bills have been withdrawn. They have not redrawn them (yet).

No - the one submitted to the Senate has not been withdrawn.

The statement is misleading in the extreme.

Exactly.

Yesterday it was questionable today we know for a fact they have not lost the battle yet. I am of the belief that they have changed their minds now and don't want to win the battle as they see that it is no longer one man pulling the strings against them it is all of Thailand telling them that their actions are unacceptable. The blinders have slipped off and they are getting a look at how Thailand really feels about them.

I see they have a back up plan they are calling for the dissolving of the Democratic party. I don't know what others think of that idea but at this time in there mismanagement it would be like putting a sign on their back saying kick me.

All they are doing is telling Thailand we want no opposition. Do as we say. More and more people are seeing them for who they really are.

The word scum comes to my mind for some reason.

Here we are with a corrupt government that has a minister of finance who publicly says it is OK to lie if it makes people happy trying to borrow 2.2 trillion baht and make sure they have no opposition to what they do with it.

Democracy in its finest form!!! They will have to be careful how they go about things from now on as their intentions have been sussed out for what they are, dastardly and crooked to the extreme!!!

[hellodolly]

You may well be right, but I wasn't referring to individuals. I stand by my comment that "the other side" is no less corrupt and is not on the side of the ordinary people.

If that is the case then why are the ones you say are just as corrupt in there fighting against a bill which would forgive any corruption ?

Some people only have a 5 watt bulb compared to the majority with a 120 watt bulb.

[thaicbr]

. The established elites expected this new rich man from a poor background who become PM

This from Thaksins wiki page.

By the time Thaksin was born, the Shinawatra family was one of the richest and most influential families in Chiang Mai.^[4]

^{Ps: I also agree that in the beginning he had some decent ideas that helped the poor. But i will also say that many of his ideas had the caveat of enforcing poor fiscal discipline on the poor, Village fund, excessive pledging schemes and low cost loans etc.}

[SICHONSTEVE]

. The established elites expected this new rich man from a poor background who become PM

This from Thaksins wiki page.

By the time Thaksin was born, the Shinawatra family was one of the richest and most influential families in Chiang Mai.^[4]

^{Ps: I also agree that in the beginning he had some decent ideas that helped the poor. But i will also say that many of his ideas had the caveat of enforcing poor fiscal discipline on the poor, Village fund, excessive pledging schemes and low cost loans etc.}

Yeh!! but his great great great grandfather was poor!!!

[thaicbr]

. The established elites expected this new rich man from a poor background who become PM

This from Thaksins wiki page.

By the time Thaksin was born, the Shinawatra family was one of the richest and most influential families in Chiang Mai.^[4]

^{Ps: I also agree that in the beginning he had some decent ideas that helped the poor. But i will also say that many of his ideas had the caveat of enforcing poor fiscal discipline on the poor, Village fund, excessive pledging schemes and low cost loans etc.}

Yeh!! but his great great great grandfather was poor!!!

Actually.... No proof of that.. The wiki says he made his fortune in tax farming... looks like the current Shinawatra clan are doing the same thing

ps: i realise your post was tongue in cheek.

[moe666]

A war of chess is underway. The decent people of Thailand have won the first battle. PTP will have other battles already well planned. The ultimate goal is to allow Thaksin back into Thailand as a free man and to reclaim his corrupt billions of baht along with an ongoing steady stream of corrupt money. He doesn't give one iota about the average decent law abiding Thai.

Many of my Thai friends talk openly about Thaksin's ultimate desire to overthrow the Monarchy and install himself as President of a Thai Republic. They also talk that Thaksin's elimination (read execution) would be a good/best outcome for Thailand. Think of other despots (Robert Mugabe, Kim Jongil, Omar Hassan Al-Bashir, Muammar Al-Qaddafu, Hosni Mubarak) and there can be no argument that Thaksin is a despot.

The outpouring of resistance against these so-called amnesty bills by ordinary decent Thais of all political persuasions is the only weapon they have and it is a mighty weapon. Public protest has worked in the past in other countries. Decent Thais want to be rid of Thaksin and corruption.

The war has just begun.

If you really believe that the other side is any less corrupt or is on the side of the ordinary Thai people, you, and your Thai friends, are seriously deluded.

In line with your comment, if you think that everybody is as corrupt and lies as much to the people as the Shins do, you have some serious judgement issues.

You may well be right, but I wasn't referring to individuals. I stand by my comment that "the other side" is no less corrupt and is not on the side of the ordinary people.

But the current situation is not about the other side it is about the PTP aka Big T trying to ramrod an amnesty bill thru that will white wash him and all others accused of crimes over the last 12 years

[BestBitterPhuket]

You may well be right, but I wasn't referring to individuals. I stand by my comment that "the other side" is no less corrupt and is not on the side of the ordinary people.

If that is the case then why are the ones you say are just as corrupt in there fighting against a bill which would forgive any corruption ?

They (democrats) are fighting it to wrest the political power from the shins, so that they and their family members and the rest of the elite can live their life in luxury and make sure that all resources are redirected to Bangkok, and only crumbs given to the poor up north. Thailand desperately needs a change, and that is to break free from the corrupt claws of the elite, who are best represented by the democrats.

[scorecard]

A war of chess is underway. The decent people of Thailand have won the first battle. PTP will have other battles already well planned. The ultimate goal is to allow Thaksin back into Thailand as a free man and to reclaim his corrupt billions of baht along with an ongoing steady stream of corrupt money. He doesn't give one iota about the average decent law abiding Thai.

Many of my Thai friends talk openly about Thaksin's ultimate desire to overthrow the Monarchy and install himself as President of a Thai Republic. They also talk that Thaksin's elimination (read execution) would be a good/best outcome for Thailand. Think of other despots (Robert Mugabe, Kim Jongil, Omar Hassan Al-Bashir, Muammar Al-Qaddafu, Hosni Mubarak) and there can be no argument that Thaksin is a despot.

The outpouring of resistance against these so-called amnesty bills by ordinary decent Thais of all political persuasions is the only weapon they have and it is a mighty weapon. Public protest has worked in the past in other countries. Decent Thais want to be rid of Thaksin and corruption.

The war has just begun.

If you really believe that the other side is any less corrupt or is on the side of the ordinary Thai people, you, and your Thai friends, are seriously deluded.

In line with your comment, if you think that everybody is as corrupt and lies as much to the people as the Shins do, you have some serious judgement issues.

You may well be right, but I wasn't referring to individuals. I stand by my comment that "the other side" is no less corrupt and is not on the side of the ordinary people.

Perhaps you should reread some of the discussions of Abhisit and Korn, both of whom lean towards small s socialist, and one of their errors at the last lection was focusing on long-term policies to reduce the gap etc., which the average poor and middle class (and more) folks just didn't understand. Partly because the only scenario they have even experienced is handouts on the day.

[SICHONSTEVE]

You may well be right, but I wasn't referring to individuals. I stand by my comment that "the other side" is no less corrupt and is not on the side of the ordinary people.

If that is the case then why are the ones you say are just as corrupt in there fighting against a bill which would forgive any corruption ?

They (democrats) are fighting it to wrest the political power from the shins, so that they and their family members and the rest of the elite can live their life in luxury and make sure that all resources are redirected to Bangkok, and only crumbs given to the poor up north. Thailand desperately needs a change, and that is to break free from the corrupt claws of the elite, who are best represented by the democrats.

But the Democrats are the only ones with the intelligence to sort this country out from the mess that PTT have left behind. For a start, the rice pledging scheme would go in an instance and be replaced by a sensible policy to pay the farmers directly (as Abhisit suggested they do before the implementation of this damaging scheme).

They must carry out any major schemes such as infrastructure projects, flood prevention schemes etc: transparently and with REAL consultation with the people and not "this is what we want to do, this is what we are doing" and instead of Thatcher's way of "I listen to what other people say and then tell them why they are wrong" that PTT employed.

There is no more honest politician in Thailand than Abhisit, full stop!!! He must get a grip on his party and tell them "any corruption and not only are you out but the full force of the law will come down on you like a ton of bricks" and be serious about this.

He must resist from cronyism, nepotism and award people on their merits and not personal usefulness to himself and his party - in other words precisely the opposite to what Thaksin attempted to do with the sole purpose of placing his 'troops' in key positions to control departments useful towards promoting and bringing forth his homecoming NB: I did use the word 'attempt' in the sentence as this, like all of his ideas designed to fleece money from the ordionary people and gear EVERYTHING towards using Thailand for his own advantage, this 'doomed from the start' exercise has failed miserably just like all of his bird-brained schemes have done in the past!!

[Publicus]

If you really believe that the other side is any less corrupt or is on the side of the ordinary Thai people, you, and your Thai friends, are seriously deluded.

In line with your comment, if you think that everybody is as corrupt and lies as much to the people as the Shins do, you have some serious judgement issues.

You may well be right, but I wasn't referring to individuals. I stand by my comment that "the other side" is no less corrupt and is not on the side of the ordinary people.

Perhaps you should reread some of the discussions of Abhisit and Korn, both of whom lean towards small s socialist, and one of their errors at the last lection was focusing on long-term policies to reduce the gap etc., which the average poor and middle class (and more) folks just didn't understand. Partly because the only scenario they have even experienced is handouts on the day.

People need to know that Abhisit and Korn are in Beijing's back pocket.

[Ricardo]

. The established elites expected this new rich man from a poor background who become PM

This from Thaksins wiki page.

By the time Thaksin was born, the Shinawatra family was one of the richest and most influential families in Chiang Mai.^[4]

^{Ps: I also agree that in the beginning he had some decent ideas that helped the poor. But i will also say that many of his ideas had the caveat of enforcing poor fiscal discipline on the poor, Village fund, excessive pledging schemes and low cost loans etc.}

Yeh!! but his great great great grandfather was poor!!!

I've been told, that they used to live in a paper-bag in the middle of the road, but suspect this is wrong, how could they have afforded such luxury ?

[SICHONSTEVE]

. The established elites expected this new rich man from a poor background who become PM

This from Thaksins wiki page.

By the time Thaksin was born, the Shinawatra family was one of the richest and most influential families in Chiang Mai.^[4]

^{Ps: I also agree that in the beginning he had some decent ideas that helped the poor. But i will also say that many of his ideas had the caveat of enforcing poor fiscal discipline on the poor, Village fund, excessive pledging schemes and low cost loans etc.}

Yeh!! but his great great great grandfather was poor!!!

I've been told, that they used to live in a paper-bag in the middle of the road, but suspect this is wrong, how could they have afforded such luxury ?

Actually, it was a nice dark green Harrods bag and it was situated safely on a kerb in a nice, quiet soi well away from any surface water drains so that flooding wasn't an issue when it rained!!!

It was 'life in the lap of luxury'.

It was a shame that it wasn't in the fast lane of a busy highway!!! Thailand would be a far happier place now if this had been so.

[Ricardo]

You may well be right, but I wasn't referring to individuals. I stand by my comment that "the other side" is no less corrupt and is not on the side of the ordinary people.

If that is the case then why are the ones you say are just as corrupt in there fighting against a bill which would forgive any corruption ?

They (democrats) are fighting it to wrest the political power from the shins, so that they and their family members and the rest of the elite can live their life in luxury and make sure that all resources are redirected to Bangkok, and only crumbs given to the poor up north. Thailand desperately needs a change, and that is to break free from the corrupt claws of the elite, who are best represented by the democrats.

If the Thai poor wish to "break free from the corrupt claws of the elite", does it really help to give blind loyalty & adulation to Thaksin's own party, who are equally (if not more) so ?

I'd point out that PM-Abhisit, with a weak coalition, did also manage a more-affordable price-support scheme for rice, which got the money more-directly to the poor farmers, rather than letting the millers & warehouse-owners intercept much of it along-the-way.

Also that while the poor in the South, the Dems' traditional heartland, are arguably better-off than Isarn, they too are still also poor. The north is not the only poor rural area in Thailand !

[SICHONSTEVE]

You may well be right, but I wasn't referring to individuals. I stand by my comment that "the other side" is no less corrupt and is not on the side of the ordinary people.

If that is the case then why are the ones you say are just as corrupt in there fighting against a bill which would forgive any corruption ?

They (democrats) are fighting it to wrest the political power from the shins, so that they and their family members and the rest of the elite can live their life in luxury and make sure that all resources are redirected to Bangkok, and only crumbs given to the poor up north. Thailand desperately needs a change, and that is to break free from the corrupt claws of the elite, who are best represented by the democrats.

If the Thai poor wish to "break free from the corrupt claws of the elite", does it really help to give blind loyalty & adulation to Thaksin's own party, who are equally (if not more) so ?

I'd point out that PM-Abhisit, with a weak coalition, did also manage a more-affordable price-support scheme for rice, which got the money more-directly to the poor farmers, rather than letting the millers & warehouse-owners intercept much of it along-the-way.

Also that while the poor in the South, the Dems' traditional heartland, are arguably better-off than Isarn, they too are still also poor. The north is not the only poor rural area in Thailand !

The difference between the poor in the South and the poor in the North is that the Southerners are better educated and don't suck in all of the nonsense that PTT spouts. They, apart from some of the food vendors, Bangkok taxi drivers (who come from the North) and the fruit sellers, tend to vote for the Democrats because they are NOT stupid and ignorant and can see that the Democrats are the only party that can help Thailand out of PTT's mess!!!!