Obama says 'sorry' to Americans losing health insurance

[Chicog]

America is on a steep decline, and I am doubtful a talented, and a well intentioned individual will ever step up to that candidacy again.

Surely you mean "will ever get nominated"?

[Chicog]

It's really difficult for a non-American to figure out <deleted> is going on. I mean, most countries in the world manage to provide their citizens with a "socialist" health-care system of one kind or another. Some are better than others, but nowhere in the whole world do people get ripped off by doctors and hospitals and insurance companies as much as they seem to do in the US of A.

Why is it so difficult for Americans to put together a good citizen-owned healthcare system? (And why get diverted into the playground abuse of the person who happens to be president right now? Casting this distracting abuse at Obama suits the insurance companies very nicely.)

I think you've hit the nail on the head here. The failure of Obamacare benefits the Healthcare providers and Drug companies, so it makes sense that they would do their best to sabotage it.

I would have thought that was bleeding obvious.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Chicog

[hawker9000]

All so totally predictable... Can't understand why ANYone, in EITHER party, didn't know from the moment it became widely known that legislators weren't even bothering to READ the bill, that this was one of the inevitable outcomes. ...like credibility was EVER this guy's strong suit!

Get your laugh tracks ready boys & girls, because all the fun is merely just beginning!

[Steely Dan]

It's really difficult for a non-American to figure out <deleted> is going on. I mean, most countries in the world manage to provide their citizens with a "socialist" health-care system of one kind or another. Some are better than others, but nowhere in the whole world do people get ripped off by doctors and hospitals and insurance companies as much as they seem to do in the US of A.

Why is it so difficult for Americans to put together a good citizen-owned healthcare system? (And why get diverted into the playground abuse of the person who happens to be president right now? Casting this distracting abuse at Obama suits the insurance companies very nicely.)

The much admired (by progressive Americans) British NHS is bankrupting the Country and gives you a 47% lower chance of survival for intensive care admissions compared to the current U.S system.

[FiftyTwo]

What the American government needs to do is control medical charges.

Set reasonable fees for all surgery and medical procedures, strike off doctors who participate in conspiracy to charge more.

Set reasonable prices on all medications (production cost + 20% seems reasonable).

[NeverSure]

It's really difficult for a non-American to figure out <deleted> is going on. I mean, most countries in the world manage to provide their citizens with a "socialist" health-care system of one kind or another. Some are better than others, but nowhere in the whole world do people get ripped off by doctors and hospitals and insurance companies as much as they seem to do in the US of A.

Why is it so difficult for Americans to put together a good citizen-owned healthcare system? (And why get diverted into the playground abuse of the person who happens to be president right now? Casting this distracting abuse at Obama suits the insurance companies very nicely.)

I think you've hit the nail on the head here. The failure of Obamacare benefits the Healthcare providers and Drug companies, so it makes sense that they would do their best to sabotage it.

I would have thought that was bleeding obvious.

Blazes, Chicog is right.

Now I've been saying all along that they went at this backwards. Everyone knows that health care in the US is expensive. I have before mentioned many things that could be done to improve that. Some of the cost is complying with government regulations and now there are more. for instance, the average typical hospital will have more nurses doing paperwork than providing patient care. Many times those nurses are the best ones with the most experience and the highest earned degrees, such as a master's in nursing or health care risk management or performance improvement and so on. So your most expensive employees are doing paperwork and CYA work.

That's just one example of inefficiency actually caused by government regulation compliance.

Another of a ton of examples is that doctors themselves through their private AMA certify teaching hospitals. That way they can limit the number of places that produce doctors, limiting the supply and driving up the price. I saw a specialist last week and I have to see another next week. Now these are top flight specialists, but they charge US $550 for 1/2 hour. Thankfully I have insurance. No one regulates how much they can charge, but the AMA regulates the supply of them.

Lots of qualified people want to get into medical school but they can't. So lets double the number of teaching hospitals and universities, pump out twice as many good doctors and get some competition in there.

All Obamacare did was to pour more money at a broken system. And now it's even more broken.

If they really wanted to do something for Americans' health care, they at the very least would have first tackled the cost side.

[Jingthing]

To the Obamacare defenders: If things are really going so well, why is Obama apologizing?

...

Obama demonizers would be attacking Obama for NOT apologizing. For them, he can't do ANYTHING right. Whatever he is for, they are against, even if they were for it 5 minutes ago.

NOBODY is claiming Obamacare is perfect (it would be better if it wasn't being actively obstructed by the right wing such as refusal to expand Medicaid in so many republican ruled states) but the huge black hole in the anti-Obamacare arguments is the completely wrong assumption that the STATUS QUO system BEFORE Obamacare was ever remotely acceptable or affordable.

Personally, OF COURSE, I favor REAL universal coverage system such as in Canada and many other civilized countries. But for now, Obama has moved the ball forward, better than nothing.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Jingthing

[F430murci]

It's really difficult for a non-American to figure out <deleted> is going on. I mean, most countries in the world manage to provide their citizens with a "socialist" health-care system of one kind or another. Some are better than others, but nowhere in the whole world do people get ripped off by doctors and hospitals and insurance companies as much as they seem to do in the US of A.

Why is it so difficult for Americans to put together a good citizen-owned healthcare system? (And why get diverted into the playground abuse of the person who happens to be president right now? Casting this distracting abuse at Obama suits the insurance companies very nicely.)

Haha, because Americans like to whine and complain about everything, including things in which they have little or no clue. It's the Ameeican way . . . It's not difficult or at least it should not be difficult, but we can find ways to screw up a wet dream

[Fookhaht]

And some posters seem to be telling porkies as well:

From the OP:

Thousands of Americans have since received notices from their health insurance companies that their policies will be cancelled.

From Loptr:

Millions are losing their health care coverage

Anyway, get all those toxic anti-Obama juices out of your system. You'll feel better.

Get your facts straight before you start worrying about "toxic anti-Obama juices."

[stoli]

Sorry hardly does it Mr President. It is within your power to change the restrictions on policy types and coverage, but you won't. So platitudes will have to do.

Millions are losing their health care coverage in the US while being forced to replace them with policies at much higher rates and deductibles. Once again the insurance companies have struck gold on the backs of the middle class. Ironically, the very people Mr Obama was trying to protect.

This incapable nimrod of a leader allowed the insurance companies to insist on dozens of provisions that were predatory, and were never doing to benefit anyone except these heinous companies. He allowed the mandatory provision which stated this:

1. U.S. citizens living outside of the United States but who are not bona fide residents of a foreign country are required to have health insurance or face fines.
   If you:
   a) have told your country of residence that you are not a resident of that country
   and
   are not required to pay income tax in your country of residence,
   then you are not a bona fide resident of that country.
   If you don’t meet these stipulations—or any of the other listed IRS requirements—and you do not purchase health insurance, then you could face fines in 2014 of $285 per family (US$95 for individuals)—or 1% of your income, whichever is the greater amount... That amount will rise to a whopping $2,085 per family (US$695 for individuals) or 2.5% of your income by 2016.
   To avoid these fines, it’s in your best interest to purchase at least minimum essential coverage.
   Good news if you are entitled to Medicare, however: Medicare qualifies as minimum essential coverage. If you’re eligible for Medicare, you won’t be at risk of fines.

So, he essentially set up nearly all ex-pets to be fined by the IRS for NOT HAVING health care insurance by an American company. Even if you are covered over here, that DOES NOT COUNT, and will not be considered by this predatory law. He essentially allowed this heinous practice on his watch. He could have fought it. He did not. He usually does not. His administration is not about fighting for the American people. It is about representing the interests of corporate America. Obamacare is a travesty for the average American. And it seems to be an excuse for government overreach.

There is a option for many of us. There is a group, not AARP, but something similar to them for retired overseas US citizens. They were able to insert into the new law that if you can prove you have lived outside of the US for 335 days of a calendar year that you are not required to buy Obama care. That still leaves you with 30 days a year to visit the US. I wish I remembered that name of the group to thank them for this.

[Carmine6]

We had another long thread on this topic. I did my best to say that this would fail. I did my best to say it wasn't health care reform. I did my best to say that nothing had been done to address the very high costs of health care in the US.

I did my best to tell that this was not government health care or free health care, but rather a mandate that everyone buy insurance or pay a fine. I did my best to warn. I did my best to say that costs would go up. I did my best to say that it wouldn't work.

Who's laughing now?

Not me.

By all accounts things seem to be working pretty well in Massachusetts, but understand that many here fear/dislike change, expect instantaneous results, prefer to be negative and never offer workable alternatives.

Not sure if you were prescient, or just another nattering nabob of negativism. Are you picking lottery numbers now?

I'm from MA and have family/friends who work in the DPH, and they seem to be extremely positive.

Sort the table from below by state average premium, high to low.

http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/individual-premiums/

For double the US average premiums and with less than 3% of the US population, it should be easy to have a system "working pretty well." Was this intended to drive everyone's rates up toward Massachusetts' level? I'm pretty sure the promise dozens of times was $2,500 savings for a family of four, as that's on video also. Cost increase was not the promise. My own premiums in California are now 110% of what they were before Obamacare and I guarantee I'm not getting twice the value. Though I'm now covered in case I miraculously have a baby, which they raised the premium for a year or so ago when they had to add it, and in the same sentence said I might not be eligible for those benefits.

I could save 20% or so by getting the lowest level Obamacare plan, but my maximum out of pocket cost would go up 58%. Another crazy thing is those in their late 20's in California are to pay about 90% of what my premiums used to be 3 years ago, and that's considered affordable. If they go with a higher tier plan, they'll pay more than I was paying 3 years ago. Had my plan stayed on the same trajectory as it did the 5 years before Obamacare, it would have gone up 35% instead of the 110%.

[Jingthing]

This is the only lobbying organization I am aware of advocating for Americans living abroad:

http://americansabroad.org/

In June 2012 the Supreme Court gave its approval to the Affordable Healthcare Act and many Americans living outside the USA are wondering if the law applies to them. The Supreme Court decision did not change anything in the law and Americans who are bona-fide residents overseas are presumed to have minimum essential coverage and as such do not have to pay a tax for not being insured in the US.

When the law was being discussed in Congress in 2010, ACA and other action groups were able to put pressure on Congress not to include Americans abroad, especially concerning the "Requirement to maintain minimum essential coverage." Overseas Americans are not exempted; technically speaking they are presumed to have acceptable minimal coverage.

http://americansabroad.org/issues/healthcare/obamacare-does-not-apply-abroad/

Edited November 8, 2013 by Jingthing

[Trouble]

Just wondering, how many of those complaining here are either a] covered by any U.S. private health insurance now, or b] have bothered to price what their coverage would cost under Obamacare.

I priced health insurance online in my home state under Obamacare, based on my age and retiree income, and got a quote in excess of $400 a month. However, after federal tax credits that are also part of this program, my monthly cost supposedly was going to end up in the range above $150 a month.

That's just a bit higher than what I'm paying right now for a private company Thai health insurance policy that, of course, excludes all but emergency care anywhere in the U.S.

My home state set up their own exchange and website for Obamacare plans, and it's worked fine as far as I can tell ever since it's inception. Easy to find information and get the answers you need about the different plans that are available. Never once had any need to go looking at the federal site.

And, unlike before and elsewhere including Thailand, no exclusions or denials from coverage anymore for pre-existing health conditions.

Sure, Obamacare is a nice utopian program where everyone is treated to affordable healthcare. It is another social engineering project trying to provide everything for everyone. The problem is nothing is equal in this world. Why not extrapolate health care to the whole world and let's take care of everyone? I am not saying that there aren't needed changes but this plan is a "clusterfu*k". Sorry but this is the icing on the cake in my book as to how the fools in Washington, D.C. are inept at doing anything.

To your situation, I am making an assumption from what you stated in your post but it sounds like you are living in Thailand on a fixed retirement income at a level that would give you a subsidy and that you are not yet 65 and eligible for medicare so you probably retired earlier than most. Living in Thailand probably means your expenses are not as much as they would be in the USA. But if you were in the USA on a fixed retirement income and just making ends meet the $150 might be next to impossible. I know people who just cannot afford this program even with the subsidy. For many people back in the USA health care is unaffordable even at $150.00 a month because they are trying to pay rent, utilities, car expenses to get to work, and so forth. But the law states they must enroll and pay. The program was not well thought out. I don't think one person in Congress read the Bill cover to cover because they are all acting surprised at the ramifications of what they passed. Obama was so eager to get this bill passed it was just pushed through with no debate and no hearings to speak of and we know which party pushed it through. Do you suppose Obama bothered to read the Bill on which he placed his signature? He lied to the American people over and over during the last campaign. He should just tell the American people he did not have any idea what was going to happen because he had not read it.

Additionally, just whom do you think is picking up the tab for the $250 subsidy to which you would be entitled? It's going to be some young person trying to start his life and maybe trying to save money to purchase a home or condo who is forced to buy health care he doesn't need at the moment probably paying full fare so you can have your subsidy. Why do you think it is so important for them to sign up the younger people? It is to subsidize someone like you. It's probably the most massive tax plan ever created to take money from some to subsidize others so we can all be equal. While I don't know your particular situation and recognizing that you are evidently not participating in the program while living overseas, in theory maybe you should still be working to cover the $400 until you reach medicare age rather than letting someone else foot the bill for your subsidy. Sure there are lots of people who will benefit from this program but there are many more who are finding that the president lied over and over and there are millions of people receiving notices of cancellation and having to now scramble to figure out a program that neither Obama nor the members of Congress can explain and in which they average covered person will end up paying more for their coverage.

For the record I supported Obama in 2008 as he sure put up a good front, but honestly he has only continued to show how completely ill-equipped he was to "run the show". It's like he has been participating in "on the job training" for the past 5 years. We have no domestic policy and no foreign policy. It is like he is holding onto the rudder of a boat hoping it won't crash and sink on his watch.

[stoli]

Just wondering, how many of those complaining here are either a] covered by any U.S. private health insurance now, or b] have bothered to price what their coverage would cost under Obamacare.

I priced health insurance online in my home state under Obamacare, based on my age and retiree income, and got a quote in excess of $400 a month. However, after federal tax credits that are also part of this program, my monthly cost supposedly was going to end up in the range above $150 a month.

That's just a bit higher than what I'm paying right now for a private company Thai health insurance policy that, of course, excludes all but emergency care anywhere in the U.S.

My home state set up their own exchange and website for Obamacare plans, and it's worked fine as far as I can tell ever since it's inception. Easy to find information and get the answers you need about the different plans that are available. Never once had any need to go looking at the federal site.

And, unlike before and elsewhere including Thailand, no exclusions or denials from coverage anymore for pre-existing health conditions.

Sure, Obamacare is a nice utopian program where everyone is treated to affordable healthcare. It is another social engineering project trying to provide everything for everyone. The problem is nothing is equal in this world. Why not extrapolate health care to the whole world and let's take care of everyone? I am not saying that there aren't needed changes but this plan is a "clusterfu*k". Sorry but this is the icing on the cake in my book as to how the fools in Washington, D.C. are inept at doing anything.

To your situation, I am making an assumption from what you stated in your post but it sounds like you are living in Thailand on a fixed retirement income at a level that would give you a subsidy and that you are not yet 65 and eligible for medicare so you probably retired earlier than most. Living in Thailand probably means your expenses are not as much as they would be in the USA. But if you were in the USA on a fixed retirement income and just making ends meet the $150 might be next to impossible. I know people who just cannot afford this program even with the subsidy. For many people back in the USA health care is unaffordable even at $150.00 a month because they are trying to pay rent, utilities, car expenses to get to work, and so forth. But the law states they must enroll and pay. The program was not well thought out. I don't think one person in Congress read the Bill cover to cover because they are all acting surprised at the ramifications of what they passed. Obama was so eager to get this bill passed it was just pushed through with no debate and no hearings to speak of and we know which party pushed it through. Do you suppose Obama bothered to read the Bill on which he placed his signature? He lied to the American people over and over during the last campaign. He should just tell the American people he did not have any idea what was going to happen because he had not read it.

Additionally, just whom do you think is picking up the tab for the $250 subsidy to which you would be entitled? It's going to be some young person trying to start his life and maybe trying to save money to purchase a home or condo who is forced to buy health care he doesn't need at the moment probably paying full fare so you can have your subsidy. Why do you think it is so important for them to sign up the younger people? It is to subsidize someone like you. It's probably the most massive tax plan ever created to take money from some to subsidize others so we can all be equal. While I don't know your particular situation and recognizing that you are evidently not participating in the program while living overseas, in theory maybe you should still be working to cover the $400 until you reach medicare age rather than letting someone else foot the bill for your subsidy. Sure there are lots of people who will benefit from this program but there are many more who are finding that the president lied over and over and there are millions of people receiving notices of cancellation and having to now scramble to figure out a program that neither Obama nor the members of Congress can explain and in which they average covered person will end up paying more for their coverage.

For the record I supported Obama in 2008 as he sure put up a good front, but honestly he has only continued to show how completely ill-equipped he was to "run the show". It's like he has been participating in "on the job training" for the past 5 years. We have no domestic policy and no foreign policy. It is like he is holding onto the rudder of a boat hoping it won't crash and sink on his watch.

Well written, and on point.

Edited November 8, 2013 by stoli

[Jingthing]

It's a kludge of a normal taxation program for a sane country accepting that they MUST have universal health care. Americans are too socialism phobic for that. In a normal taxation system of course everyone with income pays in and the payouts are based on need in that particular year. DUH! It is not "fair" or meant to be "fair" -- if you live long enough or get sick early, you'll need it too! The same thing applies to funding of schools, roads, etc. Do childless people complain their taxes pay for children of others? They might, but tough cookies, it's called a civilized SOCIETY.

Coming from the left, of course I think Obamacare sucks too, but mostly because it isn't even close to a REAL universal health care system and yes because it doesn't aggressively address COSTS either.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Jingthing

[Carmine6]

And some posters seem to be telling porkies as well:

From the OP:

Thousands of Americans have since received notices from their health insurance companies that their policies will be cancelled.

From Loptr:

Millions are losing their health care coverage

Anyway, get all those toxic anti-Obama juices out of your system. You'll feel better.

The count of notices has reached 4.2 million or so a day or two ago. A media outlet had a state map with amounts, though I can't recall which and can't seem to find it. However, even as of October 29th, it was 2 million actual notices. So the thousands from Voice of Russia was a huge understatement, though I'm sure they're not watching the count. Note that CBS came up with 800,000 notices for New Jersey alone by Oct. 29.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57609737/obamacare-more-than-2-million-people-getting-booted-from-existing-health-insurance-plans/

[stoli]

It's a kludge of a normal taxation program for a sane country accepting that they MUST have universal health care. Americans are too socialism phobic for that. In a normal taxation system of course everyone with income pays in and the payouts are based on need in that particular year. DUH! It is not "fair" or meant to be "fair" -- if you live long enough or get sick early, you'll need it too! The same thing applies to funding of schools, roads, etc. Do childless people complain their taxes pay for children of others? They might, but tough cookies, it's called a civilized SOCIETY.

Coming from the left, of course I think Obamacare sucks too, but mostly because it isn't even close to a REAL universal health care system and yes because it doesn't aggressively address COSTS either.

Coming from the left, of course I think Obamacare sucks too, but mostly because it isn't even close to a REAL universal health care system and yes because it doesn't aggressively address COSTS either.

Jingthing, you are on both sides of this debate, yet I agree with both statements. The US has an obligation to provide health care to all of its citizens, but unfortunately ACA is not the answer. You come from the left, I come from the middle, but it seems we agree that a socialist program on health care is not a bad thing. No person should be denied health care based on their ability to pay. I wish we had copied Canada's health care system, but as Americans, we always have to try untested ideas. Why do Americans buy their drugs from Canada? It might take a while to get the your ailment fixed in Canada, but at least it gets fixed. We need to get back on track and copy what works. We do need to address costs. My car mechanic needs to study everything about my car, just like my doctor does about my body, and my mechanic is paid far less. One hundred years from now people are going to say "Isn't it amazing how little doctors knew back then? They treat for what they know, but they know very little. Sorry, but true. Catch a cold and find out. No cure.

[Publicus]

Sorry hardly does it Mr President. It is within your power to change the restrictions on policy types and coverage, but you won't. So platitudes will have to do.

Millions are losing their health care coverage in the US while being forced to replace them with policies at much higher rates and deductibles. Once again the insurance companies have struck gold on the backs of the middle class. Ironically, the very people Mr Obama was trying to protect.

This incapable nimrod of a leader allowed the insurance companies to insist on dozens of provisions that were predatory, and were never doing to benefit anyone except these heinous companies. He allowed the mandatory provision which stated this:

1. U.S. citizens living outside of the United States but who are not bona fide residents of a foreign country are required to have health insurance or face fines.
   If you:
   a) have told your country of residence that you are not a resident of that country
   and
   are not required to pay income tax in your country of residence,
   then you are not a bona fide resident of that country.
   If you don’t meet these stipulations—or any of the other listed IRS requirements—and you do not purchase health insurance, then you could face fines in 2014 of $285 per family (US$95 for individuals)—or 1% of your income, whichever is the greater amount... That amount will rise to a whopping $2,085 per family (US$695 for individuals) or 2.5% of your income by 2016.
   To avoid these fines, it’s in your best interest to purchase at least minimum essential coverage.
   Good news if you are entitled to Medicare, however: Medicare qualifies as minimum essential coverage. If you’re eligible for Medicare, you won’t be at risk of fines.

So, he essentially set up nearly all ex-pets to be fined by the IRS for NOT HAVING health care insurance by an American company. Even if you are covered over here, that DOES NOT COUNT, and will not be considered by this predatory law. He essentially allowed this heinous practice on his watch. He could have fought it. He did not. He usually does not. His administration is not about fighting for the American people. It is about representing the interests of corporate America. Obamacare is a travesty for the average American. And it seems to be an excuse for government overreach.

So I see there's only one expat on the planet who is directly impacted by this obscure and arcane, bureaucratic, cover-all-the-bases provision.

Well, maybe two or three.

That's it.

[Publicus]

Full disclosure: I voted for Obama, twice.

What is so hard to understand is why he failed to closely manage, perhaps even micro-manage, the entire ACA implementation process instead of assuming everything would work. Some may say that the POTUS must delegate and hope for the best, but for a program that may well be his only lasting legacy he should have had the best/brightest working on this and reporting weekly on the status. Many have commented on the sophisticated systems Obama and the Dems used to raise money, target outreach and get out the vote, and the brains/software/systems behind those highly successful efforts. It just seems like it would have been fairly simple to get some of those same people to manage the ACA/Healthcare.gov efforts, and even pull in some folks from Massachusetts.

Instead of nailing a three pointer to seal his legacy he fumbled the game away calling a time-out he doesn't have, a la Chris Webber.

If Only Obama Cared As Much for ObamaCare As He Did About Reelection

After the 2012 election, a great deal of time was spent discussing the wide technical gap between the capabilities of the Romney and Obama websites as well as their respective get-out-the-vote efforts. While Romney had entrusted a deeply flawed system called Orca with his Election Day strategy, the Obama reelection team relied on a robust website that many have attributed, at least partially, to his victory. It’s too bad that the Obama administration didn’t use that technological acumen to build a website that was at least half as sound for its signature piece of legislation, ObamaCare.

The centerpiece of the whole Obama campaign was its fundraising capabilities, without which all of the other applications may have been moot. The 2012 campaign’s online donation system was a complete rebuild from the 2008 effort, VanDenPlas said, “a multi-region, geolocated, three facility processor capable of a per second transaction count sufficiently high enough that we failed to be able to reach it in load testing. It could also operate if every other dependent service had failed, including its own database and every vendor.”

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2013/10/10/if-only-obama-cared-as-much-for-obamacare-as-he-did-about-reelection/

I think it can best be summarize that he did not care. He is not concerned about us. He cares little for non-millionaires, even though that is in absolute contrast with his well manicured public image. His spin meisters managed to cultivate an image, which is quite apart from who the man really is. He behaves like the grandson of Mussolini, but has all this populist rhetoric. His policies, and his actions betray the opposite. And just for the record I voted for him also, but just the first time. Within 60 days of his occupation of the White House I realized this creep was not who he said he was, but rather a fascist in sheep's clothing. Over time, he has demonstrated that over, and over again. I voted once, but only once. I did not vote in 2012, as both candidates were terrible. America is on a steep decline, and I am doubtful a talented, and a well intentioned individual will ever step up to that candidacy again.

The sky is falling.

Or at least the sky over the United States .

[Publicus]

Sorry hardly does it Mr President. It is within your power to change the restrictions on policy types and coverage, but you won't. So platitudes will have to do.

Millions are losing their health care coverage in the US while being forced to replace them with policies at much higher rates and deductibles. Once again the insurance companies have struck gold on the backs of the middle class. Ironically, the very people Mr Obama was trying to protect.

This incapable nimrod of a leader allowed the insurance companies to insist on dozens of provisions that were predatory, and were never doing to benefit anyone except these heinous companies. He allowed the mandatory provision which stated this:

1. U.S. citizens living outside of the United States but who are not bona fide residents of a foreign country are required to have health insurance or face fines.
   If you:
   a) have told your country of residence that you are not a resident of that country
   and
   are not required to pay income tax in your country of residence,
   then you are not a bona fide resident of that country.
   If you don’t meet these stipulations—or any of the other listed IRS requirements—and you do not purchase health insurance, then you could face fines in 2014 of $285 per family (US$95 for individuals)—or 1% of your income, whichever is the greater amount... That amount will rise to a whopping $2,085 per family (US$695 for individuals) or 2.5% of your income by 2016.
   To avoid these fines, it’s in your best interest to purchase at least minimum essential coverage.
   Good news if you are entitled to Medicare, however: Medicare qualifies as minimum essential coverage. If you’re eligible for Medicare, you won’t be at risk of fines.

So, he essentially set up nearly all ex-pets to be fined by the IRS for NOT HAVING health care insurance by an American company. Even if you are covered over here, that DOES NOT COUNT, and will not be considered by this predatory law. He essentially allowed this heinous practice on his watch. He could have fought it. He did not. He usually does not. His administration is not about fighting for the American people. It is about representing the interests of corporate America. Obamacare is a travesty for the average American. And it seems to be an excuse for government overreach.

There is a option for many of us. There is a group, not AARP, but something similar to them for retired overseas US citizens. They were able to insert into the new law that if you can prove you have lived outside of the US for 335 days of a calendar year that you are not required to buy Obama care. That still leaves you with 30 days a year to visit the US. I wish I remembered that name of the group to thank them for this.

I'd expect to find it in the updated IRS Publication 54.

I haven't bothered to go online to try to read it yet, so I can't say for sure but that anyway is the first place I'd look.

[Publicus]

It's really difficult for a non-American to figure out <deleted> is going on. I mean, most countries in the world manage to provide their citizens with a "socialist" health-care system of one kind or another. Some are better than others, but nowhere in the whole world do people get ripped off by doctors and hospitals and insurance companies as much as they seem to do in the US of A.

Why is it so difficult for Americans to put together a good citizen-owned healthcare system? (And why get diverted into the playground abuse of the person who happens to be president right now? Casting this distracting abuse at Obama suits the insurance companies very nicely.)

Haha, because Americans like to whine and complain about everything, including things in which they have little or no clue. It's the Ameeican way . . . It's not difficult or at least it should not be difficult, but we can find ways to screw up a wet dream

And one such example would be hospital administrators and executives that engage in maladministration by putting their best rated, most experienced and most academically qualified nurses at desks to do paperwork when these nurses in fact belong in the hospital wards and serving as role models to other nurses and health and medical care personnel at the medical center.

That's private sector health administration incompetence and malfeasance, maladministration.

[Publicus]

We had another long thread on this topic. I did my best to say that this would fail. I did my best to say it wasn't health care reform. I did my best to say that nothing had been done to address the very high costs of health care in the US.

I did my best to tell that this was not government health care or free health care, but rather a mandate that everyone buy insurance or pay a fine. I did my best to warn. I did my best to say that costs would go up. I did my best to say that it wouldn't work.

Who's laughing now?

Not me.

By all accounts things seem to be working pretty well in Massachusetts, but understand that many here fear/dislike change, expect instantaneous results, prefer to be negative and never offer workable alternatives.

Not sure if you were prescient, or just another nattering nabob of negativism. Are you picking lottery numbers now?

I'm from MA and have family/friends who work in the DPH, and they seem to be extremely positive.

Same here.

Back in my native state of Massachusetts my family, friends, former colleagues are more than pleased by RomneyCare.

But then again, to the tea party people I'm from the People's Republic of Massachusetts .

The fact is that in socioeconomic terms Massachusetts is typical of the United States .

ObamaCare is a national program, so the early bugs experienced in Massachusetts are magnified and there of course are more of 'em.

All the same, however, Massachusetts wasn't/isn't plagued by a loud mob of tea party right wingers who had tried everything under the sun to try to destroy both RomneyCare and the then Gov Romney himself, which has been happening since day one to ObamaCare and to Prez Obama himself..

It's amazing what good things can happen when there isn't a frenzied and fanatic mob of political extremists frantically working against you 24/7 repeatedly, endlessly, madly, forever saying and doing any crazy thing that comes into their hard heads..

Edited November 8, 2013 by Publicus

[h90]

"If you like your plan, you can keep it. Period", does not mean an altered plan and if they are more expensive, that violates another promise.

and not a 10-20 % more expensive...it is double triple....

[h90]

It's really difficult for a non-American to figure out <deleted> is going on. I mean, most countries in the world manage to provide their citizens with a "socialist" health-care system of one kind or another. Some are better than others, but nowhere in the whole world do people get ripped off by doctors and hospitals and insurance companies as much as they seem to do in the US of A.

Why is it so difficult for Americans to put together a good citizen-owned healthcare system? (And why get diverted into the playground abuse of the person who happens to be president right now? Casting this distracting abuse at Obama suits the insurance companies very nicely.)

I am a non-American. The problem is that it isn't a "socialist" health-care system. It is an insurance care system. You force people in an extreme complicate system to buy insurances from private companies. Additional USA has the most expensive hospitals and doctors.

If you want to make a socialist health-care system than you must make it a socialist way:

A state insurance with one plan for everyone (and people can add things with private insurances if they wish). With this you create a Dinosaur. It isn't flexible, but where it lashes out nothing can withstand it. It negotiate prices with for the medications. If prices are too high it doesn't list it or if they are important for public health it self-license them and import them for Cuba or India.

The current system is like you are forced to buy a burger every day but you can choose if you buy them at Burger King or McDonalds. They of course won't reduce prices or pressure the system...They are only happy about more customer giving them more money.

The system is wrong.

[NeverSure]

It's really difficult for a non-American to figure out <deleted> is going on. I mean, most countries in the world manage to provide their citizens with a "socialist" health-care system of one kind or another. Some are better than others, but nowhere in the whole world do people get ripped off by doctors and hospitals and insurance companies as much as they seem to do in the US of A.

Why is it so difficult for Americans to put together a good citizen-owned healthcare system? (And why get diverted into the playground abuse of the person who happens to be president right now? Casting this distracting abuse at Obama suits the insurance companies very nicely.)

Haha, because Americans like to whine and complain about everything, including things in which they have little or no clue. It's the Ameeican way . . . It's not difficult or at least it should not be difficult, but we can find ways to screw up a wet dream

And one such example would be hospital administrators and executives that engage in maladministration by putting their best rated, most experienced and most academically qualified nurses at desks to do paperwork when these nurses in fact belong in the hospital wards and serving as role models to other nurses and health and medical care personnel at the medical center.

That's private sector health administration incompetence and malfeasance, maladministration.

You don't understand. The hospitals are required to have these people with the proper certifications. It takes a lot of training, education and experience to qualify for these jobs. Every hospital is required to have a doctor who is an executive and doesn't provide patient care. He is called the Medical Director. Hospitals use the term "director" where in the civilian world the term is "vice president." So that doctor could be called "vice president of medical care." That doctor spends most of his time in staff meetings or in executive meetings or meeting with his direct reports (people.)

The risk manager has to have a certification for that. Usually it is a CPHQ (Certified Professional in Health Care Quality) but if the hospital can find one, they will prefer to have someone with a master's in health care quality or risk management.

You can't just put a newbie nurse fresh out of school in those jobs. You put those nurses on the night shift and weekend shifts from which they work their way up. Some may get lucky and get transferred into the quality control department where they get training and certifications for that over the years and become a certified risk manager.

A good risk manager who must also be an RN or doctor, will make a bare minimum of $100K per year plus benefits and it might be $150k or more in a big hospital.

This all came about by federal regulation which requires a hospital to have these people. Put the blame where it belongs.

[NeverSure]

We had another long thread on this topic. I did my best to say that this would fail. I did my best to say it wasn't health care reform. I did my best to say that nothing had been done to address the very high costs of health care in the US.

I did my best to tell that this was not government health care or free health care, but rather a mandate that everyone buy insurance or pay a fine. I did my best to warn. I did my best to say that costs would go up. I did my best to say that it wouldn't work.

Who's laughing now?

Not me.

By all accounts things seem to be working pretty well in Massachusetts, but understand that many here fear/dislike change, expect instantaneous results, prefer to be negative and never offer workable alternatives.

Not sure if you were prescient, or just another nattering nabob of negativism. Are you picking lottery numbers now?

I'm from MA and have family/friends who work in the DPH, and they seem to be extremely positive.

Same here.

Back in my native state of Massachusetts my family, friends, former colleagues are more than pleased by RomneyCare.

But then again, to the tea party people I'm from the People's Republic of Massachusetts .

The fact is that in socioeconomic terms Massachusetts is typical of the United States .

ObamaCare is a national program, so the early bugs experienced in Massachusetts are magnified and there of course are more of 'em.

All the same, however, Massachusetts wasn't/isn't plagued by a loud mob of tea party right wingers who had tried everything under the sun to try to destroy both RomneyCare and the then Gov Romney himself, which has been happening since day one to ObamaCare and to Prez Obama himself..

It's amazing what good things can happen when there isn't a frenzied and fanatic mob of political extremists frantically working against you 24/7 repeatedly, endlessly, madly, forever saying and doing any crazy thing that comes into their hard heads..

I'm sorry, but you are the frantic extremist here. You are defending a huge failure. You are defending Obama's lies about what this is.

You claim that "in socioeconomic terms Massachusetts is typical of the United States." What? The average home value in Mass is double that average for the US, and the average household income is 30% higher that the average US state. Link

When you are wealthy you can afford to do more. Smaller things are more manageable. And in the end, Obamacare didn't wind up being a clone of Romneycare. It has too many of its own unworkable quirks and mandates.

You are the one who is "frenzied and frantic," trying to defend the indefensible, and are back to calling names because you don't have the argument.

Obamacare is a massive clusterxxxx. Even Obama had to apologize for it not being what he promised it would be. Now he and 14 Democrat senators are huddling trying to develop a strategy for next year's election because the Senators who followed Obama off this cliff are scared. The same ones who backed Obama to the hilt about the shutdown are panicking.

Edited November 8, 2013 by metisdead

[Credo]

The republicans have long fought to not allow any attempt at getting broad coverage for US citizens. The US is to medical care what driving privileges in Saudi Arabia are to women.

We now have something in place and once you are done jumping up and down and tossing your toys out of the pram, why don't you sit down and get your party to start fixing what you don't like.

[Baloo22]

Just one more piece of evidence showing the most unethical President and unethical administration ever!

"CNN: Obama Admin Trying To Silence Insurance Companies From Discussing ObamaCare Problems"

[chuckd]

The republicans have long fought to not allow any attempt at getting broad coverage for US citizens. The US is to medical care what driving privileges in Saudi Arabia are to women.

We now have something in place and once you are done jumping up and down and tossing your toys out of the pram, why don't you sit down and get your party to start fixing what you don't like.

" The US is to medical care what driving privileges in Saudi Arabia are to women."

Huh???

This sentence makes as much sense as Obamacare. Nobody understands it either.

[Credo]

If you don't understand something, then it's best not to comment on it, Chuckd.