Govt urges opposition not to use temple verdict for political gain

[Lite Beer]

Govt urges opposition not to use temple verdict for political gain
Supalak Ganjanakhundee,
Chanikarn Phumhiran,
Nantida Puangthong
The Sunday Nation

BANGKOK: -- Foreign Minister Surapong Tovichakchaikul urged Opposition Democrats and protesters, staging a rally against the government over its blanket amnesty bill, not to use tomorrow's Preah Vihear Temple verdict to fuel political conflict within the country, or with Cambodia.

Following the International Court of Justice (ICJ)'s verdict tomorrow, agencies concerned would consider how to deal with the court's judgement and look at ways to settle the dispute with Cambodia peacefully, he said.

"People should listen to the court's judgement with calm and separate this issue from the ongoing internal political conflict," Surapong told reporters upon arrival in The Hague yesterday.

Surapong said his government had handled the case in line with the previous government's approach and would cooperate closely with Cambodia to tackle the problem peacefully.

"People along the border with Cambodia should not panic, either. There will be no military clash in the border area near Preah Vihear Temple as ground commanders of the two countries will meet to coordinate and maintain peace on both sides of the border," he said.

In addition to meeting with Hor Namhong, his Cambodian counterpart, Surapong said Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra and Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen had also been in close contact and had agreed that the court verdict would not jeopardise the good relations of the two countries.

The court ruled in 1962 that the Hindu temple of Preah Vihear is located on territory that is under the sovereignty of Cambodia. Thailand complied with the ruling but argued that the area adjacent to the temple belongs to Thailand.

Following military skirmishes along the Thai-Cambodian border, Cambodia asked the court in 2011 to interpret the previous judgement and to make clear the vicinity of the temple. However, the border dispute became the centre of a political dispute as opposition and conservative groups accused the government under the Thaksin Shinawatra camp of making a deal with Phnom Penh over the temple, for personal interests.

Surapong said the Foreign Ministry had anticipated that the verdict could take a number of forms: The ICJ could either reject Cambodia's request for an interpretation, or it could rule in favour of Thailand or Cambodia. "Whatever it is, we have already prepared to deal with the outcome," he said.

Asked what the government's response would be if the verdict went against Thailand, Surapong said the government would look to public opinion and bring the issue before Parliament.

"I have talked to Cambodia's foreign minister Hor Namhong and we have agreed that both countries would respond to the court's judgement in line with our own domestic laws - and we will respect the stance each of our country's take," he said.

Surapong also assured the public that the government will consult with Parliament on how to proceed, if the ICJ fails to rule in Thailand's favour on the bitter border dispute between Thailand and Cambodia over the Preah Vihear Temple. The ICJ is expected to hand down its verdict tomorrow.

"We will listen to people's opinions and will also consult Parliament so that we can make a decision together," Surapong announced via Yingluck's "Government Meets the People" programme, broadcast yesterday.

Surapong, also a deputy prime minister, flew out of Thailand late Friday night for The Hague. Before leaving, he urged Thais not to politicise the Preah Vihear issue.

"Please don't use it to fuel anti-government sentiment," he said.

Large numbers of people have taken to the streets this week to rally against the government's blanket amnesty bill. Surapong also insisted that the government had already backtracked from supporting the highly-controversial bill.

He hoped that when the ICJ announced its verdict tomorrow, Thais would not stage rallies that would lead to skirmishes and loss of life in border areas close to the temple.

Tomorrow's ruling will be broadcast live on Thai national television and Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra is scheduled to address the nation shortly afterwards, according to government spokesman Teerat Ratanasevi.

"Please think about the people who live in the border areas too," said Surapong.

He added that the government had fought in the national interest of the country over the case and denied rumours that the administration's close ties with Cambodia were paving for way for their collusion on the issue.

Surapong blamed the previous Democrat government for Cambodia's decision to revive the Preah Vihear issue at the ICJ.

"We have to go to the ICJ now because the Abhisit Vejjajiva government had a number of disagreements with Cambodia," the foreign minister said. He also attacked the Surayud Chulanont administration, which came to power following the 2006 military coup.

Democrat Party spokesman Chavanond Intarakomalyasut dismissed Surapong's allegations, saying that the Democrat Party had done its best to protect the country's national interests.

"The Democrat-led government fiercely protected Thailand's territory," he said.

-- The Nation 2013-11-10

[tominbkk]

The only reason this became an issue is because of Thaksin inc. seeking political gain over it. The govt's request is ridiculous.

[EricBerg]

Isn't the missunderstood fugitive an official advisor to the Cambodian government? Should explain the government's position on the issue. They couldn't care less about the opinion of the Thai people or anybody else. It's a personal win thing for the ruling clan.

[soundman]

Land for (private) oil concessions amongst a myriad of other things?

Nah, not political.

[waza]

This issue may be the downfall of the Thaksin proxy government, they want the anti-amnesty protestors off the street before the verdict, as it has the potential to explode into a large scale anti-government protest too popular and disruptive for them to control. Thaksin and his proxy governments have a long political history with this emotive issue.

"Following military skirmishes along the Thai-Cambodian border, Cambodia asked the court in 2011 to interpret the previous judgement and to make clear the vicinity of the temple. However, the border dispute became the centre of a political dispute as opposition and conservative groups accused the government under the Thaksin Shinawatra camp of making a deal with Phnom Penh over the temple, for personal interests."

Thaksin's involvement began in 2001......."In 2001, officials from both nations signed a Memorandum of Understanding regarding the joint development of the 26,000-kilometre area, believed to be rich in oil and gas. The potential for a windfall is tantalising for both countries, not to mention the companies holding concessions for the extraction, which won’t start until 2016." http://www.phnompenhpost.com/national/cambodia-thailand-eye-overlapping-claims-area

Then in 2006 rumour has it Thaksin did a deal with Hun Sen to divide the Gulf of Thailand resourses between Thailand and Cambodia, with him and Hun Sen holding the concessions....

"CAMBODIA and Thailand were nearing a resolution over the disputed oil blocks in the Gulf of Thailand just as Thaksin Shinawatra was ousted from office in 2006, a US embassy cable revealed yesterday.......“He said they had agreed on a formula for dividing the revenue: 80% for Thailand and 20% for Cambodia in the tier nearest Thailand, 50%-50% in the middle and 20% for Thailand and 80% for Cambodia in the area closest to Cambodia,”.http://www.phnompenhpost.com/national/thaksin-oil-deal-interrupted

Sounds like a fair and equitable deal, but in reality the Thai tier is described as.........."not significant enough to make exploitation of that block alone profitable”. While the Cambodian tier is described as..........“one of the best areas for exploration in the world” and it could “revolutionise Cambodia."

But why would Hun Sen want to give Thaksin a share of his pie? Rumours that Thaksin had sold out Prea Vihear for oils and gas concessions gained momentum when he became economic advisor to the Cambodian government.....

.......Three years later, the MoU was shelved by then-Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, after Shinawatra was named an economic adviser to the Kingdom.

Then, "In 2008, Cambodia proposed its intention to apply for the inscription of the Preah Vihear in the UNESCO World Heritage site list...... The application sent by Cambodia referred to an adjacent land to the temple under Cambodia’s jurisdiction which was actually Thailand’s territory. The Thai opposition party protested on this plan and argued that Cambodia had the ownership rights only over the temple and not the adjacent territory.......... There was widespread dissatisfaction with the (PPP) government when the then- Foreign Minister of Thailand Noppodon Pattama signed a communiqué with Cambodia accepting the proposal to UNESCO in 2008 (The Constitutional Court, 2008). The oppositions claimed that Noppodon and the then-Prime Minister Sumak had business concessions with the Cambodians due to which they sacrificed the nation’s sovereignty and prestige. " http://www.ipcs.org/special-report/southeast-asia/the-dispute-over-prea-vihear-seen-problems-unseen-stakes-129.html

So after 13 years of political involvement and concessions by Thaksin and his proxy government in the Prea Vihear affair, they then have the gall to say......

"Surapong,.....urged Thais not to politicise the Preah Vihear issue. "Please don't use it to fuel anti-government sentiment," he said.....He added that the government had fought in the national interest of the country over the case and denied rumours that the administration's close ties with Cambodia were paving for way for their collusion on the issue.....Surapong blamed the previous Democrat government for Cambodia's decision to revive the Preah Vihear issue at the ICJ."

This is what has Thaksin running scared, protestors on the street when the ICJ hands down a verdict that casts him in a poor light.

Edited November 10, 2013 by waza

[mrtoad]

Well the fugitive criminal and his lacky Noppadon made it political, so tough Luck.

[NongKhaiKid]

" We will listen to people's opinions and consult Parliament " so is this new respect for democracy and the role of parliament or just the usual PTP code for " we will tell everyone what to do and expect them to fall in line without question " ?

No doubt too if those pesky Dems try to speak in parliament the totally impartial House Speaker will simply rule them out of order and if his fair, neutral decision is questioned he'll just have to call the police in again.

[GentlemanJim]

Since when have PTP ever been of the opinion that politics should be a fair fight? Is it supposed to be Queensbury rules or something? I can only urge any of those in politics who are in opposition to PTP to get down and dirty and to get as much political gain out of tomorrows judgement as possible, because one thing is for absolute sure, if the tables were turned the PTP rat pack would be taking full advantage of this situation

"People should listen to the court's judgement with calm and separate this issue from the ongoing internal political conflict,"

- my ar*e!

Go get em Abhisit. make them squirm!

[jaidam]

I can't see the problem here. So Thailand loses a world heritage temple that is well past its sell-by date and a few thousand rai of land, but a revered fugitive gains vast personal oil and gas drilling concessions over millions of rai of seabed in the gulf. How could any party make political gain from exposing the facts surrounding this?

[GentlemanJim]

This issue may be the downfall of the Thaksin proxy government, they want the anti-amnesty protestors off the street before the verdict, as it has the potential to explode into a large scale anti-government protest too popular and disruptive for them to control. Thaksin and his proxy governments have a long political history with this emotive issue.

"Following military skirmishes along the Thai-Cambodian border, Cambodia asked the court in 2011 to interpret the previous judgement and to make clear the vicinity of the temple. However, the border dispute became the centre of a political dispute as opposition and conservative groups accused the government under the Thaksin Shinawatra camp of making a deal with Phnom Penh over the temple, for personal interests."

Thaksin's involvement began in 2001......."In 2001, officials from both nations signed a Memorandum of Understanding regarding the joint development of the 26,000-kilometre area, believed to be rich in oil and gas. The potential for a windfall is tantalising for both countries, not to mention the companies holding concessions for the extraction, which won’t start until 2016." http://www.phnompenhpost.com/national/cambodia-thailand-eye-overlapping-claims-area

Then in 2006 rumour has it Thaksin did a deal with Hun Sen to divide the Gulf of Thailand resourses between Thailand and Cambodia, with him and Hun Sen holding the concessions....

"CAMBODIA and Thailand were nearing a resolution over the disputed oil blocks in the Gulf of Thailand just as Thaksin Shinawatra was ousted from office in 2006, a US embassy cable revealed yesterday.......“He said they had agreed on a formula for dividing the revenue: 80% for Thailand and 20% for Cambodia in the tier nearest Thailand, 50%-50% in the middle and 20% for Thailand and 80% for Cambodia in the area closest to Cambodia,”.http://www.phnompenhpost.com/national/thaksin-oil-deal-interrupted

Sounds like a fair and equitable deal, but in reality the Thai tier is described as.........."not significant enough to make exploitation of that block alone profitable”. While the Cambodian tier is described as..........“one of the best areas for exploration in the world” and it could “revolutionise Cambodia."

But why would Hun Sen want to give Thaksin a share of his pie? Rumours that Thaksin had sold out Prea Vihear for oils and gas concessions gained momentum when he became economic advisor to the Cambodian government.....

.......Three years later, the MoU was shelved by then-Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, after Shinawatra was named an economic adviser to the Kingdom.

Then, "In 2008, Cambodia proposed its intention to apply for the inscription of the Preah Vihear in the UNESCO World Heritage site list...... The application sent by Cambodia referred to an adjacent land to the temple under Cambodia’s jurisdiction which was actually Thailand’s territory. The Thai opposition party protested on this plan and argued that Cambodia had the ownership rights only over the temple and not the adjacent territory.......... There was widespread dissatisfaction with the (PPP) government when the then- Foreign Minister of Thailand Noppodon Pattama signed a communiqué with Cambodia accepting the proposal to UNESCO in 2008 (The Constitutional Court, 2008). The oppositions claimed that Noppodon and the then-Prime Minister Sumak had business concessions with the Cambodians due to which they sacrificed the nation’s sovereignty and prestige. " http://www.ipcs.org/special-report/southeast-asia/the-dispute-over-prea-vihear-seen-problems-unseen-stakes-129.html

So after 13 years of political involvement and concessions by Thaksin and his proxy government in the Prea Vihear affair, they then have the gall to say......

"Surapong,.....urged Thais not to politicise the Preah Vihear issue. "Please don't use it to fuel anti-government sentiment," he said.....He added that the government had fought in the national interest of the country over the case and denied rumours that the administration's close ties with Cambodia were paving for way for their collusion on the issue.....Surapong blamed the previous Democrat government for Cambodia's decision to revive the Preah Vihear issue at the ICJ."

This is what has Thaksin running scared, protestors on the street when the ICJ hands down a verdict that casts him in a poor light.

Excellent post waza. Does anybody know if all these details came out in court? I can't imagine either Thailand's PTP or Cambodia revealing them to the ICJ, mores the pity.

[ballpoint]

Although not under the jurisdiction of the current court case, wouldn't it be nice to see them, in the interest of fairness, award the temple and all land around it to one country, and full rights to the disputed offshore zones to the other, and allow the two to sort out who gets what? The instant reversal, and calls of "The temple is all yours, take it". "No, you have it, we were wrong, it's not ours at all." "No, we insist, take it, we'll throw in some more land around it as well", would expose both sides for the hypocrites and grandstanders they are, while allowing the people living in the area to finally get some peace and go back to their friendly trading with neighbours across the border. The place would probably become a bigger tourist attraction too, as South East Asia gets its very own Bir Tawil triangle.

[Ricardo]

Isn't the missunderstood fugitive an official advisor to the Cambodian government? Should explain the government's position on the issue. They couldn't care less about the opinion of the Thai people or anybody else. It's a personal win thing for the ruling clan.

That post (as an economic adviser ?) was relatively short-lived, whereas Thaksin's 'eternal friendship' with alleged-dictator Hun Sen is, well ... eternal !

Some might also consider it a suspicious coincidence, that Cambodia stirred-up trouble on the border, in the run-up to the July-2011 Thai elections ?

Eternal friendship makes for strange bedfellows, it seems !

[chainarong]

The Government needs to start looking at the subject on hand , not the side show , what earthly good and relative has this temple verdict got to do with the Amnesty or the Popularity of the PTP, the PTP are seeing shadows at every turn , means, they are worried, Good.

[tominbkk]

This issue may be the downfall of the Thaksin proxy government, they want the anti-amnesty protestors off the street before the verdict, as it has the potential to explode into a large scale anti-government protest too popular and disruptive for them to control.  Thaksin and his proxy governments have a long political history with this emotive issue.

 

"Following military skirmishes along the Thai-Cambodian border, Cambodia asked the court in 2011 to interpret the previous judgement and to make clear the vicinity of the temple. However, the border dispute became the centre of a political dispute as opposition and conservative groups accused the government under the Thaksin Shinawatra camp of making a deal with Phnom Penh over the temple, for personal interests."

 

Thaksin's involvement began in 2001......."In 2001, officials from both nations signed a Memorandum of Understanding regarding the joint development of the 26,000-kilometre area, believed to be rich in oil and gas.  The potential for a windfall is tantalising for both countries, not to mention the companies holding concessions for the extraction, which won’t start until 2016." http://www.phnompenhpost.com/national/cambodia-thailand-eye-overlapping-claims-area

 

Then in 2006 rumour has it Thaksin did a deal with Hun Sen to divide the Gulf of Thailand resourses between Thailand and Cambodia, with him and Hun Sen holding the concessions.... 

 

"CAMBODIA and Thailand were nearing a resolution over the disputed oil blocks in the Gulf of Thailand just as Thaksin Shinawatra was ousted from office in 2006, a US embassy cable revealed yesterday.......“He said they had agreed on a formula for dividing the revenue: 80% for Thailand and 20% for Cambodia in the tier nearest Thailand, 50%-50% in the middle and 20% for Thailand and 80% for Cambodia in the area closest to Cambodia,”.http://www.phnompenhpost.com/national/thaksin-oil-deal-interrupted

 

Sounds like a fair and equitable deal, but in reality the Thai tier is described as.........."not significant enough to make exploitation of that block alone profitable”. While the Cambodian tier is described as..........“one of the best areas for exploration in the world” and it could “revolutionise Cambodia."

 

But why would Hun Sen want to give Thaksin a share of his pie?  Rumours that Thaksin had sold out Prea Vihear for oils and gas concessions gained momentum when he became economic advisor to the Cambodian government.....

 

.......Three years later, the MoU was shelved by then-Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, after Shinawatra was named an economic adviser to the Kingdom.

 

Then, "In 2008, Cambodia proposed its intention to apply for the inscription of the Preah Vihear in the UNESCO World Heritage site list...... The application sent by Cambodia referred to an adjacent land to the temple under Cambodia’s jurisdiction which was actually Thailand’s territory. The Thai opposition party protested on this plan and argued that Cambodia had the ownership rights only over the temple and not the adjacent territory.......... There was  widespread dissatisfaction with the (PPP) government when the then- Foreign Minister of Thailand Noppodon Pattama signed a communiqué with Cambodia accepting the proposal to UNESCO in 2008 (The Constitutional Court, 2008). The oppositions claimed that Noppodon and the then-Prime Minister Sumak had business concessions with the Cambodians due to which they sacrificed the nation’s sovereignty and prestige. "  http://www.ipcs.org/special-report/southeast-asia/the-dispute-over-prea-vihear-seen-problems-unseen-stakes-129.html

 

So after 13 years of political involvement and concessions by Thaksin and his proxy government in the Prea Vihear affair, they then have the gall to say......

 

"Surapong,.....urged Thais not to politicise the Preah Vihear issue.  "Please don't use it to fuel anti-government sentiment," he said.....He added that the government had fought in the national interest of the country over the case and denied rumours that the administration's close ties with Cambodia were paving for way for their collusion on the issue.....Surapong blamed the previous Democrat government for Cambodia's decision to revive the Preah Vihear issue at the ICJ."

 

This is what has Thaksin running scared, protestors on the street when the ICJ hands down a verdict that casts him in a poor light.

 

Thank you, that was really clear!

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[lungmi]

European history shows a solution: Andorra - Biarchy (Catalane Bishop and President of France are Headmen) , longtime "free trade place", no customs and taxes in, but smuggling out (5 litres of Johnny Walker for the price of one) Bad idea?

[renaissanc]

Thaksin's attitude is to go for the Democrats' throat all the time. He excluded Aphisit and Suthep from the blanket amnesty. Why should the Democrats be nice to him? He treats kindness as weakness.

[smutcakes]

This issue may be the downfall of the Thaksin proxy government, they want the anti-amnesty protestors off the street before the verdict, as it has the potential to explode into a large scale anti-government protest too popular and disruptive for them to control. Thaksin and his proxy governments have a long political history with this emotive issue.

"Following military skirmishes along the Thai-Cambodian border, Cambodia asked the court in 2011 to interpret the previous judgement and to make clear the vicinity of the temple. However, the border dispute became the centre of a political dispute as opposition and conservative groups accused the government under the Thaksin Shinawatra camp of making a deal with Phnom Penh over the temple, for personal interests."

Thaksin's involvement began in 2001......."In 2001, officials from both nations signed a Memorandum of Understanding regarding the joint development of the 26,000-kilometre area, believed to be rich in oil and gas. The potential for a windfall is tantalising for both countries, not to mention the companies holding concessions for the extraction, which won’t start until 2016." http://www.phnompenhpost.com/national/cambodia-thailand-eye-overlapping-claims-area

Then in 2006 rumour has it Thaksin did a deal with Hun Sen to divide the Gulf of Thailand resourses between Thailand and Cambodia, with him and Hun Sen holding the concessions....

"CAMBODIA and Thailand were nearing a resolution over the disputed oil blocks in the Gulf of Thailand just as Thaksin Shinawatra was ousted from office in 2006, a US embassy cable revealed yesterday.......“He said they had agreed on a formula for dividing the revenue: 80% for Thailand and 20% for Cambodia in the tier nearest Thailand, 50%-50% in the middle and 20% for Thailand and 80% for Cambodia in the area closest to Cambodia,”.http://www.phnompenhpost.com/national/thaksin-oil-deal-interrupted

Sounds like a fair and equitable deal, but in reality the Thai tier is described as.........."not significant enough to make exploitation of that block alone profitable”. While the Cambodian tier is described as..........“one of the best areas for exploration in the world” and it could “revolutionise Cambodia."

But why would Hun Sen want to give Thaksin a share of his pie? Rumours that Thaksin had sold out Prea Vihear for oils and gas concessions gained momentum when he became economic advisor to the Cambodian government.....

.......Three years later, the MoU was shelved by then-Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, after Shinawatra was named an economic adviser to the Kingdom.

Then, "In 2008, Cambodia proposed its intention to apply for the inscription of the Preah Vihear in the UNESCO World Heritage site list...... The application sent by Cambodia referred to an adjacent land to the temple under Cambodia’s jurisdiction which was actually Thailand’s territory. The Thai opposition party protested on this plan and argued that Cambodia had the ownership rights only over the temple and not the adjacent territory.......... There was widespread dissatisfaction with the (PPP) government when the then- Foreign Minister of Thailand Noppodon Pattama signed a communiqué with Cambodia accepting the proposal to UNESCO in 2008 (The Constitutional Court, 2008). The oppositions claimed that Noppodon and the then-Prime Minister Sumak had business concessions with the Cambodians due to which they sacrificed the nation’s sovereignty and prestige. " http://www.ipcs.org/special-report/southeast-asia/the-dispute-over-prea-vihear-seen-problems-unseen-stakes-129.html

So after 13 years of political involvement and concessions by Thaksin and his proxy government in the Prea Vihear affair, they then have the gall to say......

"Surapong,.....urged Thais not to politicise the Preah Vihear issue. "Please don't use it to fuel anti-government sentiment," he said.....He added that the government had fought in the national interest of the country over the case and denied rumours that the administration's close ties with Cambodia were paving for way for their collusion on the issue.....Surapong blamed the previous Democrat government for Cambodia's decision to revive the Preah Vihear issue at the ICJ."

This is what has Thaksin running scared, protestors on the street when the ICJ hands down a verdict that casts him in a poor light.

What verdict can the ICJ possibly give which will cast him in poor light? I have asked Soundman this, but he has not responded, but how have the PTP handled the whole affair any different to previous Governments, and what is the likely different result of this? All your post is purely conjecture. All its sources just quote, ' unnamed persons' or 'rumors' it is complete rubbish.

Why have no other anti Thaksin groups/parties ever raised this whole gas exploitation thing? Are you trying to say you know more about this than the opposition?

[ridkun]

So what could be used for political gain? Maybe buying votes...

[waza]

This issue may be the downfall of the Thaksin proxy government, they want the anti-amnesty protestors off the street before the verdict, as it has the potential to explode into a large scale anti-government protest too popular and disruptive for them to control. Thaksin and his proxy governments have a long political history with this emotive issue.

"Following military skirmishes along the Thai-Cambodian border, Cambodia asked the court in 2011 to interpret the previous judgement and to make clear the vicinity of the temple. However, the border dispute became the centre of a political dispute as opposition and conservative groups accused the government under the Thaksin Shinawatra camp of making a deal with Phnom Penh over the temple, for personal interests."

Thaksin's involvement began in 2001......."In 2001, officials from both nations signed a Memorandum of Understanding regarding the joint development of the 26,000-kilometre area, believed to be rich in oil and gas. The potential for a windfall is tantalising for both countries, not to mention the companies holding concessions for the extraction, which won’t start until 2016." http://www.phnompenhpost.com/national/cambodia-thailand-eye-overlapping-claims-area

Then in 2006 rumour has it Thaksin did a deal with Hun Sen to divide the Gulf of Thailand resourses between Thailand and Cambodia, with him and Hun Sen holding the concessions....

"CAMBODIA and Thailand were nearing a resolution over the disputed oil blocks in the Gulf of Thailand just as Thaksin Shinawatra was ousted from office in 2006, a US embassy cable revealed yesterday.......“He said they had agreed on a formula for dividing the revenue: 80% for Thailand and 20% for Cambodia in the tier nearest Thailand, 50%-50% in the middle and 20% for Thailand and 80% for Cambodia in the area closest to Cambodia,”.http://www.phnompenhpost.com/national/thaksin-oil-deal-interrupted

Sounds like a fair and equitable deal, but in reality the Thai tier is described as.........."not significant enough to make exploitation of that block alone profitable”. While the Cambodian tier is described as..........“one of the best areas for exploration in the world” and it could “revolutionise Cambodia."

But why would Hun Sen want to give Thaksin a share of his pie? Rumours that Thaksin had sold out Prea Vihear for oils and gas concessions gained momentum when he became economic advisor to the Cambodian government.....

.......Three years later, the MoU was shelved by then-Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, after Shinawatra was named an economic adviser to the Kingdom.

Then, "In 2008, Cambodia proposed its intention to apply for the inscription of the Preah Vihear in the UNESCO World Heritage site list...... The application sent by Cambodia referred to an adjacent land to the temple under Cambodia’s jurisdiction which was actually Thailand’s territory. The Thai opposition party protested on this plan and argued that Cambodia had the ownership rights only over the temple and not the adjacent territory.......... There was widespread dissatisfaction with the (PPP) government when the then- Foreign Minister of Thailand Noppodon Pattama signed a communiqué with Cambodia accepting the proposal to UNESCO in 2008 (The Constitutional Court, 2008). The oppositions claimed that Noppodon and the then-Prime Minister Sumak had business concessions with the Cambodians due to which they sacrificed the nation’s sovereignty and prestige. " http://www.ipcs.org/special-report/southeast-asia/the-dispute-over-prea-vihear-seen-problems-unseen-stakes-129.html

So after 13 years of political involvement and concessions by Thaksin and his proxy government in the Prea Vihear affair, they then have the gall to say......

"Surapong,.....urged Thais not to politicise the Preah Vihear issue. "Please don't use it to fuel anti-government sentiment," he said.....He added that the government had fought in the national interest of the country over the case and denied rumours that the administration's close ties with Cambodia were paving for way for their collusion on the issue.....Surapong blamed the previous Democrat government for Cambodia's decision to revive the Preah Vihear issue at the ICJ."

This is what has Thaksin running scared, protestors on the street when the ICJ hands down a verdict that casts him in a poor light.

What verdict can the ICJ possibly give which will cast him in poor light? I have asked Soundman this, but he has not responded, but how have the PTP handled the whole affair any different to previous Governments, and what is the likely different result of this? All your post is purely conjecture. All its sources just quote, ' unnamed persons' or 'rumors' it is complete rubbish.

Why have no other anti Thaksin groups/parties ever raised this whole gas exploitation thing? Are you trying to say you know more about this than the opposition?

Ask yourself, why were the changes to section 190 of the Thai constitution a priority? The section that says a government must have public consultation and cabinet approval for agreement with foreign governments. Therefore, without a binding agreement over sovereignty any MOU on the concessions are worthless.

Maybe, Hun Sen isn't considered trustworthy and after ICJ verdict and the Cambodians have the temple and the land he may renege on the deal with Thaksin, he needs the deal signed sealed and legal, ASP.

Edited November 10, 2013 by waza

[EricBerg]

This issue may be the downfall of the Thaksin proxy government, they want the anti-amnesty protestors off the street before the verdict, as it has the potential to explode into a large scale anti-government protest too popular and disruptive for them to control. Thaksin and his proxy governments have a long political history with this emotive issue.

"Following military skirmishes along the Thai-Cambodian border, Cambodia asked the court in 2011 to interpret the previous judgement and to make clear the vicinity of the temple. However, the border dispute became the centre of a political dispute as opposition and conservative groups accused the government under the Thaksin Shinawatra camp of making a deal with Phnom Penh over the temple, for personal interests."

Thaksin's involvement began in 2001......."In 2001, officials from both nations signed a Memorandum of Understanding regarding the joint development of the 26,000-kilometre area, believed to be rich in oil and gas. The potential for a windfall is tantalising for both countries, not to mention the companies holding concessions for the extraction, which wont start until 2016." http://www.phnompenhpost.com/national/cambodia-thailand-eye-overlapping-claims-area

Then in 2006 rumour has it Thaksin did a deal with Hun Sen to divide the Gulf of Thailand resourses between Thailand and Cambodia, with him and Hun Sen holding the concessions....

"CAMBODIA and Thailand were nearing a resolution over the disputed oil blocks in the Gulf of Thailand just as Thaksin Shinawatra was ousted from office in 2006, a US embassy cable revealed yesterday.......He said they had agreed on a formula for dividing the revenue: 80% for Thailand and 20% for Cambodia in the tier nearest Thailand, 50%-50% in the middle and 20% for Thailand and 80% for Cambodia in the area closest to Cambodia,.http://www.phnompenhpost.com/national/thaksin-oil-deal-interrupted

Sounds like a fair and equitable deal, but in reality the Thai tier is described as.........."not significant enough to make exploitation of that block alone profitable. While the Cambodian tier is described as..........one of the best areas for exploration in the world and it could revolutionise Cambodia."

But why would Hun Sen want to give Thaksin a share of his pie? Rumours that Thaksin had sold out Prea Vihear for oils and gas concessions gained momentum when he became economic advisor to the Cambodian government.....

.......Three years later, the MoU was shelved by then-Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, after Shinawatra was named an economic adviser to the Kingdom.

Then, "In 2008, Cambodia proposed its intention to apply for the inscription of the Preah Vihear in the UNESCO World Heritage site list...... The application sent by Cambodia referred to an adjacent land to the temple under Cambodias jurisdiction which was actually Thailands territory. The Thai opposition party protested on this plan and argued that Cambodia had the ownership rights only over the temple and not the adjacent territory.......... There was widespread dissatisfaction with the (PPP) government when the then- Foreign Minister of Thailand Noppodon Pattama signed a communiqué with Cambodia accepting the proposal to UNESCO in 2008 (The Constitutional Court, 2008). The oppositions claimed that Noppodon and the then-Prime Minister Sumak had business concessions with the Cambodians due to which they sacrificed the nations sovereignty and prestige. " http://www.ipcs.org/special-report/southeast-asia/the-dispute-over-prea-vihear-seen-problems-unseen-stakes-129.html

So after 13 years of political involvement and concessions by Thaksin and his proxy government in the Prea Vihear affair, they then have the gall to say......

"Surapong,.....urged Thais not to politicise the Preah Vihear issue. "Please don't use it to fuel anti-government sentiment," he said.....He added that the government had fought in the national interest of the country over the case and denied rumours that the administration's close ties with Cambodia were paving for way for their collusion on the issue.....Surapong blamed the previous Democrat government for Cambodia's decision to revive the Preah Vihear issue at the ICJ."

This is what has Thaksin running scared, protestors on the street when the ICJ hands down a verdict that casts him in a poor light.

Many conspiracy-theories are possible here. Downhill all end up with the missunderstood fugitive. A very smart spider in a huge web. At some point even the most blind followers will see the true nature of the beast. Then there will be room for gradual reconciliation and building new on the ruins of a brokedown economy.

[Chrisswe]

Thats the problem this provoken violence organisations Democrats PAD and there's cronys will use this issue again as an political tool.

[aussieinthailand]

People Thai, Khmer, and x-pats, and any and all with a view on this issue, The facts are that the temple is historically Khmer, which by the way was also the power people in south east Asia, Thailand has NO claim on it, so what ever is underground or sea is also Khmer,

END OF STORY.

[rubl]

This issue may be the downfall of the Thaksin proxy government, they want the anti-amnesty protestors off the street before the verdict, as it has the potential to explode into a large scale anti-government protest too popular and disruptive for them to control. Thaksin and his proxy governments have a long political history with this emotive issue.

"Following military skirmishes along the Thai-Cambodian border, Cambodia asked the court in 2011 to interpret the previous judgement and to make clear the vicinity of the temple. However, the border dispute became the centre of a political dispute as opposition and conservative groups accused the government under the Thaksin Shinawatra camp of making a deal with Phnom Penh over the temple, for personal interests."

Thaksin's involvement began in 2001......."In 2001, officials from both nations signed a Memorandum of Understanding regarding the joint development of the 26,000-kilometre area, believed to be rich in oil and gas. The potential for a windfall is tantalising for both countries, not to mention the companies holding concessions for the extraction, which won’t start until 2016." http://www.phnompenhpost.com/national/cambodia-thailand-eye-overlapping-claims-area

Then in 2006 rumour has it Thaksin did a deal with Hun Sen to divide the Gulf of Thailand resourses between Thailand and Cambodia, with him and Hun Sen holding the concessions....

"CAMBODIA and Thailand were nearing a resolution over the disputed oil blocks in the Gulf of Thailand just as Thaksin Shinawatra was ousted from office in 2006, a US embassy cable revealed yesterday.......“He said they had agreed on a formula for dividing the revenue: 80% for Thailand and 20% for Cambodia in the tier nearest Thailand, 50%-50% in the middle and 20% for Thailand and 80% for Cambodia in the area closest to Cambodia,”.http://www.phnompenhpost.com/national/thaksin-oil-deal-interrupted

Sounds like a fair and equitable deal, but in reality the Thai tier is described as.........."not significant enough to make exploitation of that block alone profitable”. While the Cambodian tier is described as..........“one of the best areas for exploration in the world” and it could “revolutionise Cambodia."

But why would Hun Sen want to give Thaksin a share of his pie? Rumours that Thaksin had sold out Prea Vihear for oils and gas concessions gained momentum when he became economic advisor to the Cambodian government.....

.......Three years later, the MoU was shelved by then-Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, after Shinawatra was named an economic adviser to the Kingdom.

Then, "In 2008, Cambodia proposed its intention to apply for the inscription of the Preah Vihear in the UNESCO World Heritage site list...... The application sent by Cambodia referred to an adjacent land to the temple under Cambodia’s jurisdiction which was actually Thailand’s territory. The Thai opposition party protested on this plan and argued that Cambodia had the ownership rights only over the temple and not the adjacent territory.......... There was widespread dissatisfaction with the (PPP) government when the then- Foreign Minister of Thailand Noppodon Pattama signed a communiqué with Cambodia accepting the proposal to UNESCO in 2008 (The Constitutional Court, 2008). The oppositions claimed that Noppodon and the then-Prime Minister Sumak had business concessions with the Cambodians due to which they sacrificed the nation’s sovereignty and prestige. " http://www.ipcs.org/special-report/southeast-asia/the-dispute-over-prea-vihear-seen-problems-unseen-stakes-129.html

So after 13 years of political involvement and concessions by Thaksin and his proxy government in the Prea Vihear affair, they then have the gall to say......

"Surapong,.....urged Thais not to politicise the Preah Vihear issue. "Please don't use it to fuel anti-government sentiment," he said.....He added that the government had fought in the national interest of the country over the case and denied rumours that the administration's close ties with Cambodia were paving for way for their collusion on the issue.....Surapong blamed the previous Democrat government for Cambodia's decision to revive the Preah Vihear issue at the ICJ."

This is what has Thaksin running scared, protestors on the street when the ICJ hands down a verdict that casts him in a poor light.

What verdict can the ICJ possibly give which will cast him in poor light? I have asked Soundman this, but he has not responded, but how have the PTP handled the whole affair any different to previous Governments, and what is the likely different result of this? All your post is purely conjecture. All its sources just quote, ' unnamed persons' or 'rumors' it is complete rubbish.

Why have no other anti Thaksin groups/parties ever raised this whole gas exploitation thing? Are you trying to say you know more about this than the opposition?

Him? You mean Thaksin's legal advisor Noppadon I think. That the one who as MoFA in the Samak or Somchai government signed off some solumn agreement to help Cambonia's 'National heritage' claim and develop the area together.

Indeed the current drive of the Thaksin thinking Pheu Thai led government to ament the constitution to no longer need parliament approval for some legal agreements with foreign governments seems somewhat suspecious indeed.

Edited November 10, 2013 by rubl

[fab4]

What verdict can the ICJ possibly give which will cast him in poor light? I have asked Soundman this, but he has not responded, but how have the PTP handled the whole affair any different to previous Governments, and what is the likely different result of this? All your post is purely conjecture. All its sources just quote, ' unnamed persons' or 'rumors' it is complete rubbish.

Why have no other anti Thaksin groups/parties ever raised this whole gas exploitation thing? Are you trying to say you know more about this than the opposition?

Him? You mean Thaksin's legal advisor Noppadon I think. That the one who as MoFA in the Samak or Somchai government signed off some solumn agreement to help Cambonia's 'National heritage' claim and develop the area together.

Indeed the current drive of the Thaksin thinking Pheu Thai led government to ament the constitution to no longer need parliament approval for some legal agreements with foreign governments seems somewhat suspecious indeed.

It's OK Rubl, the democrat party has it in hand. No, they didn't boycott the vote this time, the dems too it far more seriously

A bill to amend Article 190 of the Constitution was passed in its third reading yesterday by 381 votes to 165.

Article 190 requires that all treaties and contracts signed with other countries need to be approved by the Parliament.

The third reading vote was done via a roll call. Nine parliamentarians abstained. Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra was not present for the vote.

When it was the turn of Democrat MP Watchara Phetthong to vote, he blew a whistle 10 times before voting against the bill.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Charter-change-draft-passes-third-reading-30218748.html

10 times! Perhaps he was manoeuvring himself back to his seat like a car park attendant?

[rubl]

but ... but ... but I was wondering about the golf caddy's legal advisor. The chap who signed some controversial agreement related to the current issue and topic.

What verdict can the ICJ possibly give which will cast him in poor light? I have asked Soundman this, but he has not responded, but how have the PTP handled the whole affair any different to previous Governments, and what is the likely different result of this? All your post is purely conjecture. All its sources just quote, ' unnamed persons' or 'rumors' it is complete rubbish.

Why have no other anti Thaksin groups/parties ever raised this whole gas exploitation thing? Are you trying to say you know more about this than the opposition?

Him? You mean Thaksin's legal advisor Noppadon I think. That the one who as MoFA in the Samak or Somchai government signed off some solumn agreement to help Cambonia's 'National heritage' claim and develop the area together.

Indeed the current drive of the Thaksin thinking Pheu Thai led government to ament the constitution to no longer need parliament approval for some legal agreements with foreign governments seems somewhat suspecious indeed.

It's OK Rubl, the democrat party has it in hand. No, they didn't boycott the vote this time, the dems too it far more seriously

A bill to amend Article 190 of the Constitution was passed in its third reading yesterday by 381 votes to 165.

Article 190 requires that all treaties and contracts signed with other countries need to be approved by the Parliament.

The third reading vote was done via a roll call. Nine parliamentarians abstained. Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra was not present for the vote.

When it was the turn of Democrat MP Watchara Phetthong to vote, he blew a whistle 10 times before voting against the bill.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Charter-change-draft-passes-third-reading-30218748.html

10 times! Perhaps he was manoeuvring himself back to his seat like a car park attendant?